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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


"Stop flirting."
"I was just saying hello!"
"For you that's flirting."

Jack first appeared in "The Empty Child". Does that mean he was created by Moffat? Or did RTD create him and Moffat just wrote his first appearance?

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Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011



Hair Elf

According to Wikipedia, RTD named Jack Harkness, so I'd imagine it's his character.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


Yeah, Rusty likes reusing names.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

sorry doesn't bring
me back to life, Hal.


HOLY poo poo I KNOW WHAT JACK IS.

I was saying it would be funny if Jack observed that he was MORE attracted to the Doctor as a man, not that he wouldn't find Thirteen unattractive.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

https://youtu.be/tp_Fw5oDMao#t=19m30s

2house2fly fucked around with this message at Mar 15, 2018 around 23:39

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.



"Tell me, why do they call you the Master?"
"...I'll explain later"
*Maniacal Laughter/Logopolis Theme*

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Mar 16, 2018 around 00:12

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Jack was originally named "Jax" but the BBC Books had a companion named "Trix" and BF had just introduced Hex, and RTD said, "no, too many X's" and changed it to Jack. It wasn't until they were into production that he realized he had just put a "Jack and Rose" on the TARDIS.

Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

They smelled of pubs, and Wormwood Scrubs, and too many right-wing meetings.

So I twatted them with a magic yo-yo. Because, hell, why not?


He's from the far future, so he could have been Jaq Harqness.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Astroman posted:

Jenny, with both the significance of the character and the actress to the franchise was a no-brainer to return. Seems like they're mining the depths with Lady Christina.

Jenny was not a significant character to the franchise

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001



MrL_JaKiri posted:

Jenny was not a significant character to the franchise

She was significant in that she was a genetic clone of the main character, with Gallifreyan DNA (at the time when the entire species but one was extinct). She was only the second person related to him we ever saw onscreen in 50 years. And she was shown at then end excitedly going off on new adventures in a way that practically screamed "I HAVE AN EXCITING STORY COMING UP AND YOU'LL WANT TO SEE MORE OF ME!"

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Bringing Jenny back to life and flying off to have adventures of her own at the end was Steven Moffat's idea, and I'm surprised he never tried to have her back (even if she wasn't necessarily played by Georgia Moffett).

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

As we've been able to confirm since, Moffat just likes it when people don't die

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Hey, Karn, what do you say to console someone who just got Thought Erased? You give up? "Need a hand?"


2house2fly posted:

As we've been able to confirm since, Moffat just likes it when people don't die

But also, they're very dead, forever, and they never ever die and live full lives.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Wheat Loaf posted:

Bringing Jenny back to life and flying off to have adventures of her own at the end was Steven Moffat's idea, and I'm surprised he never tried to have her back (even if she wasn't necessarily played by Georgia Moffett).

Apparently, Moffat forgot that he had suggested that change

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Astroman posted:

She was significant in that she was a genetic clone of the main character, with Gallifreyan DNA (at the time when the entire species but one was extinct). She was only the second person related to him we ever saw onscreen in 50 years. And she was shown at then end excitedly going off on new adventures in a way that practically screamed "I HAVE AN EXCITING STORY COMING UP AND YOU'LL WANT TO SEE MORE OF ME!"

Moffat suggested to RTD that she didn't die because he thought her dying would be too cliche.

The actress wasn't that significant either (can you remember, without checking, what the names of the characters that David Troughton played were? And which episodes they were in? How about Michael Troughton?)

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Hey, Karn, what do you say to console someone who just got Thought Erased? You give up? "Need a hand?"


David is King Peladon but I can't remember the other character. I forget who Michael Troughton was. This does not prove or disprove any point, I just enjoyed the impromptu trivia game.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

Bicyclops posted:

David is King Peladon but I can't remember the other character. I forget who Michael Troughton was. This does not prove or disprove any point, I just enjoyed the impromptu trivia game.

One of the passengers in Midnight is played by a Son of Throughton, I'm not sure which but I'm assuming Michael (nor do I remember the character's name).

EDIT: Dammit I checked and it's David

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Hey, Karn, what do you say to console someone who just got Thought Erased? You give up? "Need a hand?"


Forktoss posted:

One of the passengers in Midnight is played by a Son of Throughton, I'm not sure which but I'm assuming Michael (nor do I remember the character's name).

EDIT: Dammit I checked and it's David

Right, yes, the professor! I'd totally forgotten (and still can't remember his name).

David is also the Black Guardian in a decent Big Finish story. I think it's the second in the original trilogy featuring those companions who got their own terrible spin-off in Graceless.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Prof Hobbs, wasn't it?

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011



Hair Elf

I think we're mistaking "significant" for "memorable". You can be a memorable character without being significant.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Which Troughton was in "Last Christmas"?

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Wheat Loaf posted:

Which Troughton was in "Last Christmas"?

Michael.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

Speaking of Troughtons, this was just posted in the Movie Posters thread:

Palpek posted:



Woah, spooky.

Apparently Sylvester McCoy made an apparently lovely horror movie with Patrick's grandson Sam last year?

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011



Hair Elf

And Maggie Q, nonetheless!

Maelstache
Feb 25, 2013

gOTTA gO fAST

MrL_JaKiri posted:

The actress wasn't that significant either

Fairly significant when you remember she was Peter Davison's daughter, who then went and married David Tennant, thereby creating a bewildering temporal anomaly where the Tenth Doctor is now the Fifth's son-in-law and the father of his grandchild.

Update; they're still together and have four kids now! David and Georgia that is, not David and Peter.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

sorry doesn't bring
me back to life, Hal.


Maelstache posted:

Fairly significant when you remember she was Peter Davison's daughter, who then went and married David Tennant, thereby creating a bewildering temporal anomaly where the Tenth Doctor is now the Fifth's son-in-law and the father of his grandchild.

Update; they're still together and have four kids now! David and Georgia that is, not David and Peter.

Georgina is standing the way of David and Peter's true love.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011



Hair Elf

Rhyno posted:

Georgina is standing the way of David and Peter's true love.

time_crash_spandau_ballet_true.mp4

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Maelstache posted:

Fairly significant when you remember she was Peter Davison's daughter, who then went and married David Tennant, thereby creating a bewildering temporal anomaly where the Tenth Doctor is now the Fifth's son-in-law and the father of his grandchild.

Tenant and Moffett met filming The Doctor's Daughter, so when the casting happened only one of those was true :p

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


4 kids already though, Christ. Thatís why sheís not doing any acting any more, no time.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Edward Mass posted:

time_crash_spandau_ballet_true.mp4

Always in time, but never around for dreams.

(Gary Kemp was in the "if it sounds good when Tony's singing it, it doesn't have to make much sense" school of lyricists.)

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.


The_Doctor posted:

4 kids already though, Christ. That’s why she’s not doing any acting any more, no time.

Seriously, at this point the poor woman deserves a nice long rest.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


I imagine David's incredibly desperate to get at least one of his kids into the family business.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Jo as a Muppet makes perfect sense:

https://twitter.com/ManningOfficial...341954048372736

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Sydney Bottocks posted:

Seriously, at this point the poor woman deserves a nice long rest.

I was listening to the making of Dark Eyes ... 4 I think? The one she was in. Anyway, she says that thereís Doctor Who playing non stop on her TV and itís the major conversation around the house and how it all gets a bit much sometimes. But she wasnít hating on it at all.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Doctor Zero posted:

I was listening to the making of Dark Eyes ... 4 I think? The one she was in. Anyway, she says that thereís Doctor Who playing non stop on her TV and itís the major conversation around the house and how it all gets a bit much sometimes. But she wasnít hating on it at all.

She once told a story about how she was a classmate of Lucy Baker, Colin's daughter, so she just assumed everyone's dad was Doctor Who

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001



MrL_JaKiri posted:

Moffat suggested to RTD that she didn't die because he thought her dying would be too cliche.

The actress wasn't that significant either (can you remember, without checking, what the names of the characters that David Troughton played were? And which episodes they were in? How about Michael Troughton?)

She's the daughter of one Doctor and married to another. She is significant as a person to the franchise.

What are we arguing anyway? That Lady Christina is a better choice for spinoff series? That neither are?

We're getting both anyway, so I guess sales figures will show the results.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Jenny's marginally better for a spinoff because the character was merely bland rather than being actively bad. I'm not sure what sales figures has to do with any of that, though. Do I not get an opinion if an audio play sells sufficiently well?

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Jenny's marginally better for a spinoff because the character was merely bland rather than being actively bad.

Yes, I'll agree to that. Jenny is a fairly blank slate you could do a lot with, whereas Christina was a genuinely awful person.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Hey, Karn, what do you say to console someone who just got Thought Erased? You give up? "Need a hand?"


I suspect that Jenny is a mildly better character for a spin-off because yeah, she's a blank slate, and if she gets a good writer, she can keep going on with adventures and maybe even regenerate.

I think, though, that Lady Christina was awfully written only because she was a bunch of tropes shoved into an episode that wasn't exactly great to begin with, and I suspect an attempt to redeem the character would be more getting a writer who won't waste Michelle Ryan as an actor.

Big Finish will adapt anything, though, so it's possible the whole thing will just be leering at the wealthy jewel thief in her flying bus.

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egon_beeblebrox
Feb 29, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Bicyclops posted:

Big Finish will adapt anything, though, so it's possible the whole thing will just be leering at the wealthy jewel thief in her flying bus.

The Who will provide the theme song.

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