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docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Bicyclops posted:

Ah, I misread your post as "You would still have last Christmas?" as in "Do you really want to save that one?"

Hang on, let's consult the chart for what our hostile hivemind will say to newcomers when they watch it for the first time. Is this one of the shibboleth episodes?

It's one of those episodes that people love/hate/think is merely okay, unlike the other Christmas specials, where the universal consensus is that they are amazing/terrible/merely okay.

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docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Yes, many incorrect people do dislike Season 9.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Jerusalem posted:

The narrative/plot/continuity reasons are all,"It's the 50th and we've got Tom Baker so goddammit we're gonna use him." Tom Baker showed up on set one day with a TARDIS full of liquor and no one could get him to leave.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Bicyclops posted:

It seems like a great piece of writing, but the whole speech is actually just what Tom Baker says to any passerby he meets.

Yeah, they just didn't film the part afterwards where he asked, okay now that he's gotten to know Matt Smith a little, when the scene's going to start.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





AndyElusive posted:

Weird loving thing I was wondering about on the drive to work today:

Like, Seven obviously died in San Francisco 1999.

Eight died on Karn but what year???

Nine died on the TARDIS in the year 200,100.

Etc. etc. Is there a chronological list of all the time periods and places the The Doctor has died and regenerated at/in?

Harvested from episode summaries and such because I will do anything to avoid work for a bit:

One: Antarctica, 1986

Two: Somewhere between Gallifrey and Earth if I'm interpreting the end of The War Games properly

Three: England, sometime in the 70s 80s THE UNIT YEARS

Four: The Pharos Project, 1981

Five: In the TARDIS on his way away from Androzani Minor sometime in the 51st century

Six: In the TARDIS, en route to Lakertya, er, sometime

Seven: San Francisco, 1999

Eight: Karn, time probably barely even existed at this point frankly

War: The TARDIS, last day of the Time War

Nine: The TARDIS departing the Gamestation in 200,100

Ten: London, 2009 and the TARDIS, departing Earth in 2010.

Eleven: The TARDIS, Trenzalore, I don't think a year is ever given

Twelve; Antarctica, 1986

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





TinTower posted:

Surely Ypres, Christmas Day 1914?

Oh, you're probably right.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills






So this got me wondering which Doctor has had the most third-party stories? It's got to be either Seven or Eight, between Big Finish and the New Adventures/BBC Doctor Who novel lines, right?

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Wheat Loaf posted:

It was the first classic story I ever watched in its entirety and I thought it was great, but I was about 10 at the time and thought the Daleks were cool so continuity wasn't a consideration to me.

I think the best sampler of every classic Doctor is still the original eight dvds the BBC released back in 2001 (with one exception):

1. "The Aztecs"
2. "Tomb of the Cybermen"
3. "Spearhead from Space"
4. "The Robots of Death"
5. "Caves of Androzani" (this is the one I would change, since it's Davison's last story - I'd substitute it for "The Visitation")
6. "Vengeance On Varos"
7. "Remembrance of the Daleks"
8. The Movie

Caves is absolutely Davison's best story, but yeah not a place to jump on. Though honestly, I think it's fine even then, since there's not exactly a plot-heavy arc leading up to it. The only thing you really need to know going in is that Peri's literally just started traveling with him; this is their first official trip together (if you ignore Big Finish continuity).

It's also Colin Baker's best televised Doctor Who episode.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Rhyno posted:

You son of a bitch how dare you

It's a single, perfect scene, and there's no chance of the episode going to poo poo after.

And no one gets turned into a bird.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





(I do not care for Vengeance on Varos)

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





I'm probably gonna do a Master-themed binge through all (most of) the Doctors the way I did with the Cybermen a bit ago, as soon as I'm done watching old Misfits of Science episodes off Youtube, so I'll be curious to see how The Mark of the Rani holds up. My vague memory is at least of pretty much everyone involved having a laugh doing it, which is a pretty reasonable standard.

On a related topic, if you had to pick, would you watch The Deadly Assassin or The Keeper of Traken? (Saving Logopolis for a first-and-last episode binge somewhere down the line.) (e. I've seen them all, but not for a very, very long time.)

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





corn in the bible posted:

City of Death is really good

Exquisite...absolutely exquisite.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Servoret posted:

Deadly Assassin. The first and only good “Doctor goes to Gallifrey” episode, plus I’m not super-keen on Tom Baker’s last season. Right between Sarah Jane and Leela is a pretty great time in comparison.

Thanks. Thinking of this as a rough lineup when I go through with it:

One: Probably one of the new BF First Doctor Adventures, mostly because I want an excuse to buy the new BF First Doctor Adventures.

Two: The Mind Robber look there is a character called The Master that is good enough. (Also I will probably take the opportunity to finally track down and read The Dark Path)

Three: The Daemons. I need to sit down and properly go through the Pertwee years in general at some point, but I remember this one being talked up pretty highly as a highlight of the Delgado Master stories.

Four: The Deadly Assassin

Five: Time-Flight. BECAUSE I MUST SUFFER FOR MY SINS. (And because Castrovalva is his first episode and because I'm already throwing plenty of money at Big Finish for this exercise.)

Six: The Mark of the Rani

Seven: Survival would be the obvious choice, and I love it, but I again want to save it for an eventual First And Last Of Every Doctor binge. I've heard Master, and it's probably the least worst Lidster story I've ever listened to, but I don't really feel the need to hear it again. Oooh. Dominion fits the bill perfectly.

Eight: Um...The Movie, clearly, but again, looking to avoid first and last episodes. Are there any particular Eight and the Master BF stories that aren't Dark Eyes (because I'm not quite ready to dive in there yet) that are recommended? Huh. It looks like The Light at the End is my other option, and I haven't heard that, and I clearly need to.

Nine: Probably swap in one of the War Master stories instead because of course there's nothing else really that fits aside from MAAAAAAAYBE Simon Pegg's character from The Long Game.

Ten: Comedy option: School Reunion. Probably end up watching The End of Time again because I love it AND I WILL FIGHT YOU

Eleven: Missy's technically involved with The Bells of St. John I guess.

Twelve: I used Dark Water/Death in Heaven for my Cybermen binge, and World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls is effectively Twelve's last episode, so probably The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar.

Wrap-Up: The Curse of Fatal Death

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Doctor Zero posted:

You’re very pretty, probably.

"Be careful, my dear, I don't think he's as stupid as he seems!"
"My dear, nobody could be as stupid as he seems."

I miss Douglas Adams.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills






...oh, brilliant!

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Doctor Who Thread: Please Don't Be A loving poo poo Show Chibnall

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Maera Sior posted:

As cool as it is to see some of the guests, the "Pay $ to get an autograph, pay $ to get a photo (even with a cell phone)" and the general lack of programming makes me feel bored and taken advantage of. Now, if they were all willing to hang out at the bar, that's something else.

You'll at least be able to run into Tom Baker at the bar.

Any bar. Every bar. He is at all of them, simultaneously and continuously.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





CobiWann posted:

Don't worry! It's all downhill from here. There are a few high points (The Natural History of Fear, Faith Stealer, the Last) but it's pretty much a slog through the Divergent Universe arc.

Scherzo for its hosed-up-ness is definitely a solid example of early Big Finish's creativity and why I wish Robert Shearman would get a chance to write some more Doctor Who.

Scherzo is in that odd space for me where, if I look at it dispassionately, I can see its quality, but where I did not enjoy listening to it much at all. I can't really say it's bad (though I probably have before) but I don't like it. (Then again, I'm colder on non-Chimes Shearman than most in this thread, I think.)

I think the only Divergent story I really enjoyed was the one where the Doctor got split into three fragments representing an excess of one side of his personality, Enemy Within style.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Jerusalem posted:

Unfortunately if you think THIS story feels like somebody's fetish got shoved into a Doctor Who story, you're REALLY going to hate Creed of the Kromon (which you should, because it is a dogshit story).

The only reason this isn't the worst Big Finish story I've ever heard is because I've had the singular misfortune of listening to Nekromantica. I have no idea if that's the correct spelling and I care even less.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Jerusalem posted:

The BBC armored security truck with the year's budget arrived in January but when Chibnal opened it there was just a note inside from Moffat reading,"Sorry! vv"

If it's from Moffat, there wouldn't be a note. Instead, when opening the truck, it would be empty but a recording of a creepy childrens' choir would play:

Tick tock goes the clock
It really is quite funny
Tick tock, and on this rhyme
I spent all the money

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





I think my first exposure to Doctor Who was in the form of some old Target novelizations that were repackaged into a collection that I grabbed from the library on a whim. If memory serves, it was the run between Genesis of the Daleks and, er, Doctor Who and the Zygons Who Weren't Uncomfortable Refugee Stand Ins, possibly. Mostly memorable for Harlan Ellison using his introduction to wage his never ending vendetta against Gene Roddenberry somehow.

Later on, PBS was airing full episodes on Saturday afternoons and, being a nerdy teenager in a tiny rural town, of course my Saturday afternoons were free. The first one I saw was Silver Nemesis. For some reason I kept watching, though the next time I got around to it the Doctor was played by someone different because they'd circled back around to Tom Baker and I was hooked from there.

I first saw Roseabout a year after it aired. It wasn't bad.

Tl;dr

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Big Mean Jerk posted:

I don’t see it on Netflix US anymore, but Hulu has the whole series and it looks like it’s in the correct order.

If they have the version with the original music restored, that might be worth a subscription for a bit.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Power Of Love endings rule and I will bask in the tears of those who hate them forever, though Lie of the Land wasn't really the best example of the form.

e. I enjoyed Pyramid when I watched it, though I have to wonder if my reaction to a repeat viewing would be similar to Jerusalem's. (Also, having seen Arrival in the meantime, I'm not saying Pyramid ripped it off, but wow do I see a lot of at least superficial parallels.)

docbeard fucked around with this message at Mar 11, 2018 around 01:15

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





I'm sure I saw "he was the War Doctor for about a century" written down somewhere at some point, but I could have imagined it and gently caress knows if that even means anything anyway.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





I have always been consistent in who my favorite Doctor is, from when I started watching the series until today.

It's whichever one I've seen most recently.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Doctor Zero posted:

Holy poo poo. They give that much away? Thank god I never watch those. That Master reveal was loving amazing. I never saw it coming. Right up there with Derek Jacobi.

Even knowing it was coming it was an amazing reveal, but yeah, being blindsided by it would have been incredible.

I really liked The Eaters of Light, it may, in retrospect, be one of my favorites of the season, but I also agree it's easy to forget or overlook because it's ultimately nothing more (and nothing less) than just a solid bit of standalone Doctor Who.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





It's subtle enough that I don't know if it was even intentional but a harmless black woman being shot by a panicking blue man was a neat and timely bit of satire.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





I think the important thing to keep hold of is that the Master will take any excuse to get into a ridiculous disguise on the faintest of pretexts.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Pesky Splinter posted:

BF has released the cover artwork for that Lady Chirstina audio coming out:

Probably not the most flattering picture of Michelle Ryan they could have chosen...so we've got Sylvia Noble to look forward to (I like Jacqueline King, and it depends if it's snooty Sylvia, or post Journey's End Sylvia), Sam Bishop (crossover from their new UNIT series), Sontarans, which BF usually find something interesting to do with, and...Slitheen.

The farting. Can't you hear it? I thought it would stop, but it never does. Never, ever stops. Inside my head. The farting, Doctor. The constant farting.

I'm impressed. Everyone on that cover looks faintly disgusted at the prospect of being there.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





The_Doctor posted:

I think my one note on Spare Parts would be ‘make the Committee more understandable’.

I love Spare Parts but yeah, definitely this.

Anyway, I needed something nice and cheerful to watch after Altered Carbon and Jessica Jones season 2, but for some reason instead I'm watching Fifth Doctor serials.

Castrovalva is a mess, but a rather endearing one, with Anthony Ainley as the Master in all his scenery-chewing glory. (For all that Simm has a completely different energy about him, I'm seeing more commonalities between his portrayal of the Master, particularly in Worlds Enough/The Doctor Falls, and Ainley's than I was expecting. It'll be interesting to see how that holds up.)

Four to Doomsday is one that I kind of want to love unreservedly, because the good parts are so good and Monarch is such a fantastic pompous villain. It's probably at least an 8 on whatever scale of racism that Talons of Weng Chiang is a 10 on , though, and I can't decide whether all the stereotyped characters actually being robots makes it better or worse. Also, the main cast's negative character traits being played way up is funny but possibly not the best choice they could have made. (Though the Doctor all NOW LISTEN HERE YOU LITTLE IDIOT to Adric makes up for a multitude of sins.)

I have Kinda next, which I didn't like much the first time I saw it, but that was a long time ago, so we'll see if my perspective has changed at all. I know the thread rates it pretty highly, so we'll see.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills






"...What do you mean Steven can only sign two books this year?"

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





So, when people recommend Kinda as a standout of the 5th Doctor's era...is that meant to be some kind of cruel joke?

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





I absolutely love Caves, it's true.

I don't know, the big rubber snake didn't bother me (if that sort of thing bothered me I could hardly watch pre-revival Doctor Who or frankly a lot of post-revival Doctor Who) but the thing barely has a plot, none of the guest characters are the least bit compelling, and most of the main cast are either literally sidelined or have nothing much to do.

Exception: the dream sequence where the Mara is loving with Tegan to convince her to let it possess her is fantasticly creepy.

Anyway, my journey through the Fifth Doctor years continues. The Visitation is a solid alien-loving-around-in-a-historical-setting story, and Five continues to be pricklier than I remember him being (and I think I enjoy him that way). Not really anything that deserves to be on anyone's best-of list, but solid enough. Also, seeing the sonic screwdriver for the last time before the revival.

Also the first half of Black Orchid was delightful, even if it was clearly just an excuse for Peter Davison to play some cricket.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





It occurs to me (and feels familiar enough that I suspect it's not an original observation) that Earthshock and Resurrection of the Daleks would both work better with the antagonists swapped; the sadistic Cybermen of Earthshock feel a lot more like Daleks, and the Daleks' motivations in Resurrection aren't all that far removed from WE MUST SURVIVE.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





I'm reasonably confident that Anthony Ainley faked his death and is hanging around in a cheesy, quite probably racist disguise as the Big Finish groundskeeper or something.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Speaking of, continued Fifth Doctor trip reports.

The second part of Black Orchid was not quite as stupidly fun as the first half, but the whole thing is still probably my favorite Five story so far.

And then Earthshock. I'll be honest, I've never really understood the sheer hatred Adric traditionally gets, though I certainly wouldn't rate either the character or Matthew Waterhouse (at least not 1980s Waterhouse, I'm curious to hear his Big Finish stories to see if he's better in them) all that highly. Still, this was (unsurprisingly) a fairly Adric-centric story and (surprisingly) the rather tense relationship between Adric and the Doctor ends up paying off pretty well.

I said before I thought that the sadistic and revenge-driven Cybermen here would work better as Daleks, and I stand by that. Still, if you, er, completely ignore what the Cybermen are supposed to be like, they're pretty effective villains.

Anyway, I like Earthshock probably more than it deserves.

And then I watched Time-Flight for the first time in twenty-odd years and...honestly, I have seen much, much worse Doctor Who stories. I have even seen much, much worse 5th Doctor stories. The Master's disguise as Kalid the dubiously Asian sorcerer is of course racist as gently caress, but I could just about accept it as the Master being racist as gently caress if, you know, every other non-Western character we've seen from this era of Doctor Who weren't similarly cringeworthy.

Anyway, good, if slightly crowded supporting cast, but the Master (once he's out of disguise) is easily the best thing here. The plot doesn't really hold up to much scrutiny, but if that were going to bother me, I'd have to stop watching Doctor Who entirely.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





MrL_JaKiri posted:

Adric's main problem is that the writers didn't really know what to do with him, especially early on when he was inserted into scripts after they were written, which meant that he joins the villains annoyingly often. His other problem is that some (looking at you, Terence Dudley) confuse "precocious genius" with "massive sexist".

Yeah, his whole WOMEN ARE DUMB AND I DON'T CARE WHO KNOWS IT bit in Four To Doomsday was pretty grating, though honestly I don't think any of the main cast were written especially well. (Shame because there's a lot about that one I like.)

And yeah, I think that was an issue with all three major companions that series, and Janet Fielding was really the only one capable of giving her character a bit more definition in spite of it. (Though it helped that Tegan was actually given poo poo to do more often than not, unlike 'whoops I slept through the whole episode' Nyssa).

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Bicyclops posted:

Five's TARDIS is also a bit more crowded than most, which means they have to find stuff for four people to do, which makes them fall back on some default standbys. Naive collaborator gets played way too often with Adric, but there's also the old kidnapped-through-ineptitude shtick.

Still better than "lol I slept through the entire story" when they couldn't be bothered to write anything for Nyssa to do.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Vinylshadow posted:

Has Capaldi started sleeping outside the BFA offices yet?

He's said he wants to take some time away from the role for a while.

(Presumably "a while" is however long it takes to construct his own working TARDIS)

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docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Ha, I just remembered the Big Finish story where the Eighth Doctor does not in any way have amnesia, but where a woman is convinced that he's her amnesiac husband.

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