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Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


OutofSight posted:

I would be important to point out, that all these figures are women of wealth and upper class. Persons in position of powers and influential networks.

What if little Katina of Bushwack Ville, Bohemia never heard of these inspiring persons because like a lot of people in the lower classes, regardless of gender, she neither can write or read and only hears mostly gossip from the next bigger town?
Being a woman of low class in a medival simulation can be a terrifying experience.

I like your pitched game concept, but the execution would face so many gameplay problems.

Even this is an oversimplification. Yes, the women of wealth and status are the most commonly known examples but every year we turn up new and compelling evidence that female participation in society was greater than we have been led to believe by our primarily male historical forbears. A good example is Japan, we typically take for granted the assumption that the "modernizing" influence of the Meiji government meant that women were overall, if still subordinate, doing better than they were than in the "backwards" Tokugawa period. Recent studies suggest that is in fact not the case, and that non-high status women actually enjoyed greater ability to head households/control land and assets in the Tokugawa period than in the overtly patriarchal, yet modernized, Meiji regime.

History is full of these kinds of contradictions and exceptions to broad social trends and we're finding more as time goes on.

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Skoll
Jul 26, 2013

Oh You'll Love My Toxic Love


Grimey Drawer

Phi230 posted:

For those who don't know, you can poo poo in this game. and you can also read a book while you are taking a poo poo. I know that if you eat too much food you will get "bloated" and your stamina will be lowered because of this you will get tired quicker. so say if I eat a lot more than I was supposed to and get bloated, will taking a poo poo alleviate this and return my stamina back to normal? what other benefits does taking a dump have in the game?

Unless you can mod this bullshit out, that sounds extremely unfun.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP CARING ABOUT KIDNAPPED CHILDREN AND INSTEAD LISTEN TO MY IDIOT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Skoll posted:

Unless you can mod this bullshit out, that sounds extremely unfun.

then don't buy the game

gasman
Mar 21, 2013

hey now

I'm a casual soldier tier backer, so I'm going to poop in a video game I guess.

OutofSight
May 4, 2017


Captain Oblivious posted:

Even this is an oversimplification. Yes, the women of wealth and status are the most commonly known examples but every year we turn up new and compelling evidence that female participation in society was greater than we have been led to believe by our primarily male historical forbears. A good example is Japan, we typically take for granted the assumption that the "modernizing" influence of the Meiji government meant that women were overall, if still subordinate, doing better than they were than in the "backwards" Tokugawa period. Recent studies suggest that is in fact not the case, and that non-high status women actually enjoyed greater ability to head households/control land and assets in the Tokugawa period than in the overtly patriarchal, yet modernized, Meiji regime.

History is full of these kinds of contradictions and exceptions to broad social trends and we're finding more as time goes on.

And i would agree with you. Historical documentation can be either highly perceptive or does just barely exist. Robert Fossier, a french historian, laments in his book "Cens gens Moyen Âge" that he would like to tell more about the common people in the medival age, but lacks sources. They are not a lot of documents left, when those common people couldn't write themselves. (Or pay someone to do it for them.)


But i at the same time i sometimes don't understand a certain group, who thinks every game should have a strong female lead (at worst: the perfect waifu), that fight the evil (white heterosexual) patriarchy.
I like the concept (Horizon: Zero Dawn may be a good example?), but don't cry when a game does not offer a female lead.

KC:D looks like a sausage fest. At worst some misogynistic medieval ages simulator. At best "camping trip with the lads" experience (including taking dump in the woods and drinking yourself into stupor).

OutofSight fucked around with this message at Feb 9, 2018 around 23:06

Woohoo
Apr 1, 2008


I just can't wait to wander around in those photorealistic forests while nice medieval music plays. That's all I want and looks like this game will deliver.

I remember doing it in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion (instead of grinding dungeons or whatever) and it's quite funny to think how Oblivion looked vs. how KCD looks. And I still enjoyed it then - it was most realistic way to do it back then.

Woohoo
Apr 1, 2008


Twist And Pout! posted:

Didn't these guys catch a bunch of poo poo for only having white people in their game? But historically there extremely few POCs in the region so it's actually accurate?

This is dumb as gently caress. Even today, those areas in Europe has little to none black/asian/whatever people even despite migration crisis, tourism and stuff like interchange students etc.

Black guy in generic Czech village today would still be quite a sight for locals, and they'd have no idea their curiosity would come off as racist. In 1403 it would be a thing people would have traveled from far distances to see.
Gaming journalism is just retarded.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP CARING ABOUT KIDNAPPED CHILDREN AND INSTEAD LISTEN TO MY IDIOT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

The concept of race and identity based on skin color also wasn't a thing in 1403. It wasn't until widespread chattel slavery did those concepts exist

but the lead developer is an alt-right dude so yes, it does put the treatment of that subject under suspicion

LORD OF BOOTY
Feb 11, 2015

THEY MAKE SURE YOU AIN'T BOOTY!!!


Phi230 posted:

For those who don't know, you can poo poo in this game. and you can also read a book while you are taking a poo poo. I know that if you eat too much food you will get "bloated" and your stamina will be lowered because of this you will get tired quicker. so say if I eat a lot more than I was supposed to and get bloated, will taking a poo poo alleviate this and return my stamina back to normal? what other benefits does taking a dump have in the game?

does this game have multiplayer, and also can i throw my poop at people

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP CARING ABOUT KIDNAPPED CHILDREN AND INSTEAD LISTEN TO MY IDIOT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

does this game have multiplayer, and also can i throw my poop at people

No multiplayer BUT you DO throw poop at a house

Skoll
Jul 26, 2013

Oh You'll Love My Toxic Love


Grimey Drawer

Phi230 posted:

The concept of race and identity based on skin color also wasn't a thing in 1403. It wasn't until widespread chattel slavery did those concepts exist

but the lead developer is an alt-right dude so yes, it does put the treatment of that subject under suspicion

So there were Moorish Christians in 1403?

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010

strength accessories?

Fun Shoe

There's no way that's true, is it? This is centuries before the guys I studied, but the Byzantine-Ottoman wars are in full swing during the 15th century. Turkish/Arab dudes shouldn't be wholly unknown in Eastern Europe.

Woohoo
Apr 1, 2008


Phi230 posted:

but the lead developer is an alt-right dude so yes, it does put the treatment of that subject under suspicion

You are not getting the point.

Say, it's 1403 and you're a fucker from Mauritania or whatever. What reason do you have to travel to generic Bohemian village? How much would it take on foot? How many horses would die on the road? Airplanes didn't exist yet.
What is your business in Bohemian village? Everybody's christian, there's about 3000 villages on the road where local peasants see your skin color as mark of Satan and help to cleanse you from devil by burning you on a stake or whatever. There's also 3000 dialects to speak and you can't just default to English or whatever. It's just plain loving stupid.
Or they'd take you as ottoman invader and gently caress you up on first sight. They had already hands full stomping jews and gypsies, a black guy would be no problem. So anyone POC with half a brain would never, ever make such journey.

Also, it's feudalism. A strange guy in one of the villages will proc bunch of gorillas from local lord to check who the hell you are and what are you looking for. Who had a lot of more power than say, modern police.

Only way a black dude would end up in such place at all is when he was captured as slave from a crusade or a specialist of somekind. Records of gunpower, siege, etc experts exist, and those dudes were often foreign, captured from a Crusade or raid. Some of them might have been black or Arabic. But it was super rare and totally uncommon.

Woohoo fucked around with this message at Feb 9, 2018 around 23:36

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002



Hell the Mongols invaded Europe and got as far as Bohemia less than 200 years earlier

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP CARING ABOUT KIDNAPPED CHILDREN AND INSTEAD LISTEN TO MY IDIOT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Skoll posted:

So there were Moorish Christians in 1403?

Moors are not a distinct or self-defined people,[4] and the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica observed that "The term 'Moors' has no real ethnological value."[5] Medieval and early modern Europeans variously applied the name to Arabs, North African Berbers, and Muslim Europeans.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


looks interesting. i just really hope irs not jankey as poo poo and is fun to play and experience. hoping for witcher 2 jank then say elex jank.



Phi230 posted:

The concept of race and identity based on skin color also wasn't a thing in 1403. It wasn't until widespread chattel slavery did those concepts exist

but the lead developer is an alt-right dude so yes, it does put the treatment of that subject under suspicion

i am mixed. the dude is definitely conservative to an extent(comes from former soviet hosed country so they tend to be) and acted like dick a bunch and likes shitheads at times. he released some long apology letter. basicaly it all started lovely clickbait getting angry that the game was dragon age or had tons of blacks/asians/etc because they didn't get it was supposed to be a historical thing about like 10 sqmile area and because the clickbaiters have a very american ideal of diversity(skin color over all). anyway vara got pissed because of it and acted like a dick toward them for a while and such.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at Feb 9, 2018 around 23:37

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002



Chasing the historical realism dragon is pretty silly tbh. Speaking of which, there should really be dragons in this game

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


Pablo Gigante posted:

Chasing the historical realism dragon is pretty silly tbh. Speaking of which, there should really be dragons in this game

https://www.pcgamer.com/a-game-of-t...s-in-the-works/

some modders are already doing it.

Skoll
Jul 26, 2013

Oh You'll Love My Toxic Love


Grimey Drawer

Phi230 posted:

Moors are not a distinct or self-defined people,[4] and the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica observed that "The term 'Moors' has no real ethnological value."[5] Medieval and early modern Europeans variously applied the name to Arabs, North African Berbers, and Muslim Europeans.

So basically your wokeism says no.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP CARING ABOUT KIDNAPPED CHILDREN AND INSTEAD LISTEN TO MY IDIOT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Skoll posted:

So basically your wokeism says no.

The very definition of the word moor as well as 60 years of historical scholarship apparently is "wokeism" to dumb as poo poo conservatives on the internet

ignoring your non sequitur

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010

strength accessories?

Fun Shoe

Woohoo posted:

You are not getting the point.

Say, it's 1403 and you're a fucker from Mauritania or whatever. What reason do you have to travel to generic Bohemian village? How much would it take on foot? How many horses would die on the road? Airplanes didn't exist yet.
What is your business in Bohemian village? Everybody's christian, there's about 3000 villages on the road where local peasants see your skin color as mark of Satan and help to cleanse you from devil by burning you on a stake or whatever. There's also 3000 dialects to speak and you can't just default to English or whatever. It's just plain loving stupid.
Or they'd take you as ottoman invader and gently caress you up on first sight. They had already hands full stomping jews and gypsies, a black guy would be no problem. So anyone POC with half a brain would never, ever make such journey.

Also, it's feudalism. A strange guy in one of the villages will proc bunch of gorillas from local lord to check who the hell you are and what are you looking for. Who had a lot of more power than say, modern police.

Only way a black dude would end up in such place at all is when he was captured as slave from a crusade or a specialist of somekind. Records of gunpower, siege, etc experts exist, and those dudes were often foreign, captured from a Crusade or raid. Some of them might have been black or Arabic. But it was super rare and totally uncommon.

Napoleon took his Mameluk cavalry into Eastern Europe and all the way to Moscow. They did fine.

gasman
Mar 21, 2013

hey now

"Sometimes you just have to make games "historical" to stop the feature creep."

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010

strength accessories?

Fun Shoe

well, ok, no, an awful lot of them froze or starved to death, but they did fine until then!

Woohoo
Apr 1, 2008


Reiterpallasch posted:

Napoleon took his Mameluk cavalry into Eastern Europe and all the way to Moscow. They did fine.

It was 200 years later, under protection of one of most powerful guys and his army in Europe, after Renaissance and dark ages. And, in global metropolis, not medieval backwards-rear end county in Czhechoslovakia.
That's quite a difference.

You can nitpick "but there were arabs/blacks then and there" all you want, this game is about big picture and different areas. Which did not look like Bronx, NYC at any point, and doesn't look like it even in 2018.

Woohoo fucked around with this message at Feb 9, 2018 around 23:45

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP CARING ABOUT KIDNAPPED CHILDREN AND INSTEAD LISTEN TO MY IDIOT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Reiterpallasch posted:

well, ok, no, an awful lot of them froze or starved to death, but they did fine until then!

that dude's post is hella ahistorical because people viewed Africans pretty fine in the early 1500s/late 1400s (which is only a century from the game) and freedmen rose to local importance in several communities that we know of in northern europe at that time as well

Skoll
Jul 26, 2013

Oh You'll Love My Toxic Love


Grimey Drawer

Phi230 posted:

The very definition of the word moor as well as 60 years of historical scholarship apparently is "wokeism" to dumb as poo poo conservatives on the internet

ignoring your non sequitur

I'm just giving you poo poo because you're a Commie.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP CARING ABOUT KIDNAPPED CHILDREN AND INSTEAD LISTEN TO MY IDIOT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Skoll posted:

I'm just giving you poo poo because you're a Commie.

with love

skoll why won't you play the game with the poo mechanic

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002



Skoll posted:

I'm just giving you poo poo because you're a Commie.

What is this, 1953

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


cuman are in the game. they server as force to help sigusmund(the Hungarians). they were a turkic nomadic people who came to hungary after they got hosed up by the Khans. a bunch of poo poo happend but then the cumans kinda became part of hungarian military and culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuman...Hungarian_plain

Aardark
Aug 5, 2004



Hm, I was considering buying this game, but I don't want to give my money to Czech nazis. Wish I could just pirate it, but I'm on a PS4.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP CARING ABOUT KIDNAPPED CHILDREN AND INSTEAD LISTEN TO MY IDIOT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Cumin is a powder

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation. I actually named my daughter after the Pink ranger and will provide proof if challenged.


And what of Constantinople? Why did it get the works?

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002



Bad: Pointing out bad historicity, “wokeism”
Good: Using commie as an insult like a crew cut-sporting 1950s man

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP CARING ABOUT KIDNAPPED CHILDREN AND INSTEAD LISTEN TO MY IDIOT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

I wish I could poo on command like Henry Of Bohemia

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002



Dandywalken posted:

And what of Constantinople? Why did it get the works?

That’s nobody’s business but the ed: removed in the name of historical accuracy

Skoll
Jul 26, 2013

Oh You'll Love My Toxic Love


Grimey Drawer

Phi230 posted:

with love

skoll why won't you play the game with the poo mechanic

Costs too much and I don't want to manage a ton of meters like every Day Z clone. But I will lurk this thread to find out if it is indeed a good game so I can snatch it in a sale if it is.

E: gently caress stamina meters forever, too

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!


I'm always curious about awful jank, as you all may know, but I ain't dropping 60 bucks on anything made by a white supremacist and also I'm broke.


(If you buy it for me I will record myself doing whatever you want)

TEENAGE WITCH
Jul 20, 2008

NAH LAD


the character design in this game is pretty bad compared to other historical games like dynasty warriors

gasman
Mar 21, 2013

hey now

corn in the bible posted:

I'm always curious about awful jank, as you all may know, but I ain't dropping 60 bucks on anything made by a white supremacist and also I'm broke.


(If you buy it for me I will record myself doing whatever you want)

In the game?

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Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


Aardark posted:

Hm, I was considering buying this game, but I don't want to give my money to Czech nazis. Wish I could just pirate it, but I'm on a PS4.

get its when its cheap. even if its really good, it will probaly go on sale eventually. the witchers did.

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