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Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006





Dapper_Swindler posted:

so far from what i have seen, the army shot is only in the very beginning when the hungarians/cuman raid and lay siege to your town and you get the gently caress out, possibly with your gf

i bet she gets raped and you have to save her with your big giant white sword

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DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013

Things could be going better


KyloWinter posted:

ive only seen the trailer so i dunno if there are big battles or what but you would definitely have swords that cut employed in non military fashion. the only fighting in the trailer was fighting some bandits, tournament fighting, etc. langes messer and longsword should still be popular in the hre and the rapier hadnt developed yet.

e: watching it again i guess there are some cinema shots of the armies so i dunno what this game is about i guess

I am sure this isn't what you mean, but the image of a peasant drawing a sword to do everything is hilarious.

Need to cut a tree down? Sword. Cutting your hair? Sword. Need to get your horse to go faster? Rap it with the flat of the sword. Digging a hole? Sword. Need to stir a stew but don't have a spoon? You guessed it, sword.

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009



How much sandbox ended up in the game? I remember backing this at the cheapest tier when I thought it was a better looking Mount and Blade but then it shifted to how this is the specific story of white dude rags to riches blacksmith. Their terrible story sounded more boring than a goofy systems driven thing like M&B or Darklands.

Rookersh
Aug 19, 2010

Midgets be packing some Space-Age shit!



FuzzySlippers posted:

How much sandbox ended up in the game? I remember backing this at the cheapest tier when I thought it was a better looking Mount and Blade but then it shifted to how this is the specific story of white dude rags to riches blacksmith. Their terrible story sounded more boring than a goofy systems driven thing like M&B or Darklands.

Who knows. They basically refuse to do anything but talk about the core plot, so we have no idea what side quests look like. We know it features BOUNTY HUNTING, but who knows what that means.

If you don't want your key anymore, I'd gladly buy it off you for $30. The fall of the HRE and our understanding of it was the topic of my thesis paper, and I've got a morbid curiosity for this game's historical aspects, despite being pretty hesitant of it's quality. Having to learn how to read so you can do quests for monks/become a monk is just stupid enough I kind of want to see it, just not for $60.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!


Orv posted:

Goddamn you people sucked poo poo from a butt all day in here.

poop mechanics come in handy at last

destitute
May 1, 2002
It's about how hard you get hit and keep moving forward.

Nap Ghost

Orv posted:

I feel like there's only two outcomes for this game thread; a fun mess or insanely, impossibly terrible. Indications point towards the latter, but it'd be nice to be wrong.

Orv posted:

Goddamn you people sucked poo poo from a butt all day in here.

You were not wrong.

Orv
May 4, 2011

"To. Ya' know. Stuff."
(Nazi Rank <3)


Rookersh posted:

Who knows. They basically refuse to do anything but talk about the core plot, so we have no idea what side quests look like. We know it features BOUNTY HUNTING, but who knows what that means.

If you don't want your key anymore, I'd gladly buy it off you for $30. The fall of the HRE and our understanding of it was the topic of my thesis paper, and I've got a morbid curiosity for this game's historical aspects, despite being pretty hesitant of it's quality. Having to learn how to read so you can do quests for monks/become a monk is just stupid enough I kind of want to see it, just not for $60.

What the hell is your Steam nick again?

Futuresight
Oct 11, 2012

IT'S ALL TURNED TO SHIT!


Doorknob Slobber posted:

who the gently caress wants to poop in a game when its like the most boring part of real life unless you have a nintendo switch

Young person spotted.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.

I have two caveats with the game on the outset.

Cryengine. Is that engine suitable for an open-world game? The only games I know that use it are the linear-shooters by the dying Crytek, the atrocious Sonic Boom, and the jpeg-selling Star Citizen. We got seamless maps with no load-screens with the Red-engine and I wonder how this compares.

Why the subtitle when this the first game made by the studio? Are they banking on a sequel and a subsequent franchise happening? When I hear the word "Deliverance" the two things that come to mind are banjoes and bum-surprise sex, and we'll probably only get one of those things.

Inspector Gesicht fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2018 around 06:45

Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003

All right, all right, spare me your life's story.



Fallen Rib

deliverance from the oppression of aaa titles with a classic clunky european rpg that if more attention had been paid to polish would be good but is instead a brilliant awful game would be my guess as to the meaning

though even that might be optimistic

i remember ropekid (i think) saying he wanted to do an rpg in the holy roman empire. maybe this'll prove successful and good enough to prove the idea can work and we'll get something good even if this isn't great

Roobanguy
May 30, 2011


i will probably buy this game because medieval first person combat is irresistible to me.

SlightlyMad
Jun 7, 2015


cuntman.net posted:

the op seems like a decent guy so i feel bad about what happened to the thread

Aww, thanks I guess.

I think we should judge the game on it's own merits and consider the topic of possible developer wingnut issues covered by the thread already. We get it, the man is far from perfect. If that makes you not want to play the game, that is cool. Your money, your choice. Let's not poo poo the thread further with endless arguing about it, shall we?

I confess I know less than half as much about history than I'd like to. I love to learn new stuff, so educate me if you have the good stuff. Demographics of 1400's central europe or the prevalence of sidearm swords versus halberds, axes etc. are topics I could learn a ton about from better informed history fans. The over-emphasized role of the sword as a symbol has been an issue in the minds of people since before the middle ages and it continues to distort the media to this day. Nothing new under the sun there.

The flawed and incomplete record of history we get from written sources, with the focus on male nobility and conflicts, at the expense of women, all ordinary people and everyday life is a major problem in trying to understand how reality was back in the day. Archeology to the rescue. Romanticizing the past leads to nationalistic bullshit in any country and a distorted view of reality. Admiration of those aspects of history passed on to us by past writers can cause people to get really dumb ideas about how things were in the "good" old days, which is ridiculous in light of all the progress made in the world. We still have a long way to go as human beings.

Civil discussion, mainly about the game, please.

SlightlyMad
Jun 7, 2015


I updated the original post a little so people can make their own decisions based on what they learn.

I might make an assumption about the role of the sword and why it would have been carried: Good for cutting down unarmored peasants, necessary as a backup-weapon in case your halberd, spear or what have you breaks in combat. Never a primary weapon, but its use would have been practiced because of tradition and as a part of wider training for combat. I would think that the idea of a "heroic" knight and his sword was basically a myth and a mental ideal more than reality, even in the middle ages. We just build on centuries of layers of ideas and mythology distorting things further. The reality might have been Sir Bastard and his filthy gang of squires chopping down villagers while pillaging for fodder, not some duel of champions fighting for the honor of a lady in full armor. Basically the people in the middle ages were probably drawn in by myths and fantasy like nerds today. (King Arthur myth, holy grail, excalibur and so on.)

Is there anyone here who can give an informed opinion about historical european martial arts? They are based on fighting manuals passed on from the time periods when the writers and illustrators would have been witnessing actual fighting, but they are still a modern re-interpretation. I gather that HEMA tries to keep the rules flexible so as not to turn into a sport with resulting distortion of practices to fit sporting rulesets. See most martial arts for examples. Since HEMA plays a role in informing game developers about how fighting happened, it seems relevant to think about. How valid is HEMA?

The game itself is of course another modern re-interpretation and can never capture historical reality perfectly, so maybe we need to keep that in mind when judging it. An attempt was made. If you want more fantasy and dragons, feel free to play a mod or Skyrim. Any attempt at historical accuracy is inherently imperfect, all things considered.

barkbell
Apr 14, 2006

woof

The sword was still really important. You would still carry it the same way people cc pistols. You have your pistol in war too but really you are mainly using an AR or whatever. I'm assuming in this game you aren't rolling around in the army most of the game but I have no idea.

HEMA focuses on reading and understanding the fighting manuscripts we have. In that understanding the fighting is practiced and competed in. Most of the HEMA competition is styled after the judicial duel which, as far as I understand, if you weren't a noble you would be mostly unarmored with a longsword or sword and buckler or whatever. HEMA is valid insofar as people are actually attempting the athletics and martial pursuits that we have available to us. Through that training a greater sense of understanding of the techniques is available to us as opposed to just reading and trying to imagine how they might work as some of them aren't immediately apparent why they are useful.

As far as this game goes the types of melee weapons that would be in use around this time period would be a variety of polearms, spears, pikes, lances, pollaxes, maces, staves, longswords, arming swords, langes messers, daggers etc etc etc etc like shitloads of things. Armor would be gambeson, maile, plate, different helmets like bascinet, sallet maybe. Whoever said swords aren't sharp is wrong as hell, swords aren't steel clubs. Also swords cut. Some are better at cutting some are better at thrusting but the swords of this period can do both to varying degrees. Oh also wrestling is your standard unarmed fighting style since everyone you would fight would have a dagger.



maybe i made all this up tho get owned

barkbell fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2018 around 13:38

barkbell
Apr 14, 2006

woof

Also HEMA seems to have a bigger problem with white nationalists and Nazis more than other club things

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?



In this game you have a Drinking skill so I think it will be good.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



Yeah, one fairly important thing is that most of HEMA as practiced assumes both fighters to be unarmoured. For one, that's because it's relatively more common in most treatises. Treatises covering armoured fencing with relevant weapons do exist, but AFAIK they're a minority. Secondly, there's the issue of safety. Swords aren't particularly heavy, so when you just blunt them and put on some decent padding you're generally very safe outside of bruised knuckles and the occasional broken finger. The same doesn't really work as well for a warhammer, mace, poleaxe, or basically any percussion weapon. Sure, you could make them lighter until they're safe, or pile on stupendously thick and heavy armour/padding, but in either case you're losing out on accuracy. Last but not least, there's simple practicality. Even in an unarmoured HEMA-fight, it can be kind of tricky to determine when a valid hit has been scored. They commonly use the simple abstraction that as long as your weapon connects with your opponent it's a hit, but even that can lead to edge cases where things are less clear. Scoring an armoured fight would be even more difficult. For example, how would you gauge whether a thrust would have been strong enough to penetrate the (under-)armour or not?

Anyhow, what this means in practice is that they put a lot of (genuinely commendable) effort into reconstructing a lot of fencing techniques as accurately as possible, but ended up putting them into a context where they're only kinda-sorta applicable in the first place. If your opponent even just has so much as a helmet and a brigandine (which would have been quite reasonable for even a rando infantryman), then suddenly a whole lot of those techniques would suddenly be starkly compromised or outright useless. So basically the techniques they looked at in HEMA were legit, the way they ported them into the game seems legit as well, it's just that they ended up in an inappropriate context.


Fake edit: There's also a thing called "Battle of Nations" that does full-contact armoured combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxQR5haqTs. However, that one is sportified all to gently caress, mostly for safety reasons. Participants wear absolutely silly amounts of stiff padding beneath their armour, and just about all techniques that were historically used to fight armoured people are forbidden because, well, those were intended to kill and cripple people.

OutofSight
May 4, 2017


KyloWinter posted:

The sword was still really important. You would still carry it the same way people cc pistols. You have your pistol in war too but really you are mainly using an AR or whatever. I'm assuming in this game you aren't rolling around in the army most of the game but I have no idea.

HEMA focuses on reading and understanding the fighting manuscripts we have. In that understanding the fighting is practiced and competed in. Most of the HEMA competition is styled after the judicial duel which, as far as I understand, if you weren't a noble you would be mostly unarmored with a longsword or sword and buckler or whatever. HEMA is valid insofar as people are actually attempting the athletics and martial pursuits that we have available to us. Through that training a greater sense of understanding of the techniques is available to us as opposed to just reading and trying to imagine how they might work as some of them aren't immediately apparent why they are useful.

As far as this game goes the types of melee weapons that would be in use around this time period would be a variety of polearms, spears, pikes, lances, pollaxes, maces, staves, longswords, arming swords, langes messers, daggers etc etc etc etc like shitloads of things. Armor would be gambeson, maile, plate, different helmets like bascinet, sallet maybe. Whoever said swords aren't sharp is wrong as hell, swords aren't steel clubs. Also swords cut. Some are better at cutting some are better at thrusting but the swords of this period can do both to varying degrees. Oh also wrestling is your standard unarmed fighting style since everyone you would fight would have a dagger.



maybe i made all this up tho get owned
I guess when most people read "cutting", they think if sharp kitchen knives. Which would be indeed wrong. The sword edge this sharp would to brittle and go blunt very easily. But a swung sword would still be sharp enough to split a fruit (or head) and not simply crush them.

Anyway.

As long as combat doesn't boil down to silly i-frame abuse or combo meters, i am sold. And slow as molasses, (like Dark Souls 1). I hate twitchy melee games.

barkbell
Apr 14, 2006

woof

Sure you normally wouldn’t have some 15 degree edge angle like some Japanese chef knife but you can be sure the edge angle they did choose would be as sharp as that angle would allow. You would definitely resharpen after a fight. Just because the edge takes some nicks and burrs a bit and blunts doesn’t mean you don’t want it as sharp as possible for each fight.

E: the biggest thing with these medieval combat games like for honor and dark souls is all the strikes are so slow. No games really approach how quickly a strike would be.

barkbell fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2018 around 16:57

Tonetta
Jul 8, 2013

look mother look at ME MOTHER MOTHER I AM A HOMESTIXK NOW

**methodically removes and eats own clothes*

Doorknob Slobber posted:

who the gently caress wants to poop in a game when its like the most boring part of real life unless you have a nintendo switch

pooping feels good

Tonetta
Jul 8, 2013

look mother look at ME MOTHER MOTHER I AM A HOMESTIXK NOW

**methodically removes and eats own clothes*

if pooping doesn't feel good, change your diet

barkbell
Apr 14, 2006

woof

Tonetta posted:

if pooping doesn't feel good, change your diet

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



Pwnstar posted:

In this game you have a Drinking skill so I think it will be good.

Obviously putting all my skill points into Drinking whenever I can

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


Actually a good idea because saving your game makes you drunk. This is how saving works.

Junkfist
Oct 7, 2004

FRIEND?

That's how you save your game in 1403 bitch,

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!

Pillbug

So this thing coming out finally then?

I backed it at the base tier on kickstarter years ago with "expected delivery date: December 2015" and as far as I can tell I'll supposedly get a steam key through my official-forum profile on the 13th?

What's the overall verdict -- is this game gonna be good or did I waste my money four years ago? Any consensus review emerging yet?

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

So this thing coming out finally then?

I backed it at the base tier on kickstarter years ago with "expected delivery date: December 2015" and as far as I can tell I'll supposedly get a steam key through my official-forum profile on the 13th?

What's the overall verdict -- is this game gonna be good or did I waste my money four years ago? Any consensus review emerging yet?

I don't think anyone really knows, it looks promising but there is also a lot of red flags (alt-right dev, little open world explanation, combat may suck or be awesome). I'd say at this point it's got a 40/60 shot of not being a steaming pile.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!

Pillbug

Popete posted:

I don't think anyone really knows, it looks promising but there is also a lot of red flags (alt-right dev, little open world explanation, combat may suck or be awesome). I'd say at this point it's got a 40/60 shot of not being a steaming pile.

Ok, well at least I already spent my money before I knew the dev was alt-right, so I can play with a clear "I didn't know" conscience

One review I saw said there was gameplay around the monastic-hours clock so that's cool. What's this about Actual Pooping?

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007



The good news is since it is singleplayer only the best combat techinique won't be diving at your opponents knees, facing away, and aiming an overhead swing at the sky thus ignoring any blocking they've attempted

Furry Hunter
May 5, 2005
Professional Fursecutor

Seams posted:

even if this isnt great hopefully its good enough to fill the gap before bannerlord comes out in twenty years or so

Roobanguy
May 30, 2011


The Chad Jihad posted:

The good news is since it is singleplayer only the best combat techinique won't be diving at your opponents knees, facing away, and aiming an overhead swing at the sky thus ignoring any blocking they've attempted

god chivalry was so good when people didn't abuse weird engine things.

Skoll
Jul 26, 2013

Oh You'll Love My Toxic Love


Grimey Drawer

Roobanguy posted:

god chivalry was so good when people didn't abuse weird engine things.

I must be the minority that always thought Chivalry combat kind of sucked. I loved how War of the Roses took on Mount and Blades basic combat and improved on it. The best I'd say though, was Of Kings and Men. Sadly, that game died an ignoble death but it probably had the best melee combat out of any of these games.

Supreme Allah
Oct 6, 2004

I choose to expose myself

Nap Ghost

Games on my radar as a 20~ dollar experiment maybe in the doldrums of spring, not as a day 1 release

Real Cool Catfish
Jun 6, 2011


Ah finally, a new game that adds the most necessary gameplay element, pooping. I can only hope it can be weaponised like way back when in SS13, where a determined soul could take out pretty much anyone with some creative usage.

I’d seen this game mentioned in the Warband thread and it looked interesting. The last 6 pages have given me little information about the game, but boy do I have a lot of new facts about the medieval bohemian racial diversity, historical accuracy of cutting v. thrusting swords and also that the lead guy in the development team is an rear end in a top hat.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

*BEEP*
*BOOP*
M'SPREADSHEET



Biscuit Hider

I backed the game from early on, played the beta a bit (and suck and combat), and I've never seen anything about pooping.

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer

So can anyone who has played this in beta/alpha comment if it's any good?

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

Time to button mash!


I will probably play this when it's in a Humble Bundle so the money can go to a charity and not to an alt-right nutjob.

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



Roobanguy posted:

god chivalry was so good when people didn't abuse weird engine things.

Chivalry is still good, i have almost 2,000 hours and I(m not even good

e: 1754 hours

Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003

All right, all right, spare me your life's story.



Fallen Rib

KyloWinter posted:

No games really approach how quickly a strike would be.

ahem, you are forgetting the ultra-realistic games of devil may cry and metal gear rising REVENGEANCE

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Furry Hunter
May 5, 2005
Professional Fursecutor

Popete posted:

So can anyone who has played this in beta/alpha comment if it's any good?

There are several streamers on Twitch. From what I've seen it looks like fun. Hopefully my PC can handle this.

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