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rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Unlocking Lucarioite is annoying but it's helped by ORAS' contest generally being easier. They simplified combos, added new super appeal attacks you can do (which kind of seem like the precursor to z moves? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DJcg8xLPXQ )and removed feel, so you can max out all your stats on any pokemon. Also there's an entire contest subplot involving Lissia and some dork who uses a machoke, so you at least get some fluff out of it.

Garchompite has no such thing to ease up on its grind.

Also shout out to Lissia's super fan who gives you the tm for infestation

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rannum
Nov 3, 2012



magikid posted:

I think Pokemon makes a really good case for not even having HP and just going off of defense, with a percentage lifebar or something. I mean what is even the point of this?

Variety, mostly. It's also their attempt at balance, you tend to get both sides. Really high HP stats offset by low to middling defenses, and really high defense stats with low hp. Shuckle is the big poster child of the latter.
Honestly the real death kneel isn't even the defense disparity, its lack of recovery & typing. Blissey is amazing but if it didn't have Softboiled it would be worthless, and some differnet typings could be disasterous.
Shuckle would probably see more use if it had something other than Rest and also wasn't weak to rock. Guzzlord is fun but its assorted common weaknesses dont help (fighting, ice, dragon, x4 fairy...)

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Anime Contests weren't too bad. They were definitely treated as just as important as gym battles were for ash, complete with training episodes and such. May spends a long time perfecting her pokeblocks, for example.

Changed the formatting a little to better suit an action show, though. The show off category is merged with the appeal-to-judge round and was presented as doing a full gymnastics routine basically. Lots of jumping around and firing off multiple moves and such. Then that's graded by 3 judges (that town's Nurse Joy, the pokemon fan club president and the contest leader (Remarkable!)) based on how well the routine emphasized the Pokemon & Trainer. Top 16 or so trainers move on to the next round
The follow up round is now a timed battle, but instead of battling to a KO you do a timed battle to lower the opponent's points. Often they'll end with both sides still going. The judges are presumably the ones making the points call here and it goes off similar rules to the appeal round: more extravagant, successful manuevers the better. Ash participates for fun sometimes and usually loses here because he gets so focused on playing it like a normal battle that he barely knocks any points off the other person despite landing a ton of moves. Artful dodges also count. It's actually kind of a nice way to adapt the whole jamming/appeal mechanic in the contests proper, I think.

Sinnoh's contests didn't change much, other than now the contestants & their pokemon can dress up and they use the pokeball seals.

if there was one big sticking point its that May's contests were kind of weak for a long time since they were still finding their footing and they really leaned on "extravagant ice sculptures" and "do a water move, now freeze it/explode it" throughout. But you could track May, Dawn and even Jessie's development through their sagas which was nice. Jessie started out not even getting a proper judging but by the end is putting together routines and battles that put the others on the ropes.

Despite Pokemon Musicals being a thing, they were only in one or two episodes of the unova anime. And they basically presented it as pokemon contests sans battles, with very elaborate appeals. Iris & Cilan didnt actually perform, it was some filler dude with 3 maractus.

XY's anime took the Trainer PR shtick and made it an entire Not-Contest side quest for Serena to do. Round 1 is now a Themed Performance where contestants do different things with their pokemon in each performance. One has them dress & accessorize their pokemon, then do a quick skit to show them off. It's more interesting than it sounds and Jessie's Pumpkaboo was ROBBED. Another was doing a group bake off with their pokemon. Another was herding rhyhorn. Another was a quiz show!
Then after the judging, they move to the freestyle round which is basically what the appeal round in the previous seasons were, but they could have more pokemon out and about. Significantly more flashy, basically an idol performance at times.
The Master Performance is actually pretty similar to how it works here: 3 performers do their performances at the same time to the audience (the judges for this) and they're encouraged to interact with and mess each other up so long as it improves their own performance.

They squeeze significantly more drama out of losing a contest than they do Ash losing a battle, too. The looming deadline to get the needed ribbons (keys, for serena) before the Masters happened was played up more than the theoretical deadline for the pokemon league ever is so you had things like Dawn losing a bunch of contests in a row and falling into a rut, Serena having to find her resolve (complete with dramatic hair cut), things like that.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Abandoned Ship is so cool, and i really liked what they did with it in the remakes.

The regi theme is also very cool, it's so different and kind of intense. The remake's remix is fun because it incorporates parts of the original sound font in it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiDgi4BN7aE

Regice was at the start of gen 3 the best special wall available since almost half of all pokemon were unavailable, bolstered by usable special attack with the coveted boltbeam coverage.
Then Blissey came back in FRLG and did its job better thanks to not needing to rely on Rest.

The idea of a metagame completely forming due to lack of other games and backwards compatibility is really fascinating to me. The closest we get to that now is official tournaments in their first year usually limiting to the regional dex but that's not quite the same thing. Even if it did give us the wonderful Follow Me Pachirisu.

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Oh boy, Ever Grande "City".
Not featured: being grande, a city

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



The "Berry Glitch" was specific to counting off days, so the 2 minute wait time wouldn't have mattered.
from bulbapedia

quote:

The game cartridge contains a real-time clock (RTC) which keeps track of the year, month, day, hour, minute, second, and day of the week. When the RTC is first turned on, its date is set to January 1, 2000. Because the game has no need for an actual calendar system, it converts the RTC's year, month, and day data into a single "day number". The conversion function has a flaw, however: it will only count years (adding 365 or 366 days for each year or leap year) starting from 2001. So, while the RTC clock is reporting the year as 2000 or 2001, in both cases, the conversion equates this to "add 0 days to the day number". This means that, for the first 366 days the RTC runs (starting from January 1, 2000), the game's day number will count from 1 to 366 normally, but when the RTC clock reports January 1, 2001, the game's day number will start from 1 again.

If, for example, a Sitrus Berry was planted on December 31, 2000 according to the RTC, which the game interprets as day 366, it will be scheduled to be fully grown on day 367. Due to the glitch, "day 367" will not happen until the RTC reaches January 2, 2002. The result is that the growth of the Berry appears to be frozen for 366 days. Other effects of this glitch include:

Random events which are calculated once per day, including Energy Guru and Lilycove Dept. Store sales, service days at the Mauville Game Corner, the random number for Mirage Island, and weather conditions on Route 119 and Route 123, will be frozen until 366 days after the game was last played before the glitch took effect.
Drawings at the Pokémon Lottery Corner, NPCs who offer free Berries daily, and the man in Pacifidlog Town who gives TM27 (Return) or TM21 (Frustration) weekly, will be frozen until 366 days after these events were last used.
The number of successful rocket launches at the Mossdeep Space Center will be reset to 1.
The glitch does not affect the evolution of Eevee into Espeon or Umbreon, or the tides in Shoal Cave, because these events are based only on the current time, not the day number.

I think they changed it just because they changed everything else. I guess the idea is they didn't want you to just use the braille translations from the last game, which is also why they swapped wailord & relicanth.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I hated the climax of the RS arc so much. The sheer melodrama with all the deaths and destruction followed by the equally ridiculous Celebi cop out just ruined the whole thing. Melodrama is fine, but RS was just really guys. The Emerald Saga was also pretty lame start to finish, for other reasons.

But my least favorite part about it had to do with Ruby & Sapphire at the climax. So the 2 fight Archie & Maxie but get trounced due to lack of teamwork, then the 2 went through some team up training with Liza, Tate & Juan on Mirage Island because Special is slavishly devoted to bringing in every single thing from the games no matter what they would be the best ones to teach the 2 to act in sync so they could do battle properly against the villains.
So they finish their training, Sapphire gets her Mind & Rain badges because we dont have time for her to do her quest but by god we'll complete it, I think put on some new clothes, and head to the final battle at which point Ruby instantly locks her away (in what I think was a Manaphy movie reference??) to protect her and teams up with Courtney instead. Great???
And obviously that goes poorly, though not teaming up with Sapphire isn't really the reason why. So Ruby pulls out the Celebi but it just rewrites the timeline and they pop out at a proper ending with everyone alive and such.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Crosspeice posted:

Haha, uh, yep, I seem to be getting a bit predictable. OR AM I?

We've still got a bit left of this LP, I'm thinking ten more updates or so, so post your stuff whenever Onmi, it's always a cool read. I've read every Special arc and it's been a while since RS. But I remember the ending being crazy and dumb. The arc was a lot of fun, but due to how separate everything is and Ruby being Ruby, I don't rank it too highly. DP was great fun to read, so that's why it's my favourite.

DP was a fun arc, on the whole it felt more reigned in though, again, in the back half kind of got dumb in spots. But at no point did a Celebi undo everything so points there.

The Platinum arc less so and the HGSS arc was such a giant load of nothing. I never got around to reading the BW1 arc but I think it still has plot points not wrapped up because also the BW2 arc is STILL GOING since it had a few hiatuses. As is the XY arc. And the SM arc.
Reading Special/Adventures these days sounds like a lesson in pain.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



the real answer is clear: Pokemon Colosseum

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Oh good we finally got Wally's underwhelming last stand so now I can talk about the ridiculousless that is ORAS Wally
The fight is now in a field of flowers as the sun shines down upon you and an amaaaaazing rock theme blares

It is all so wonderfully over the top for this goober you've met twice before as you beat up on his tiny flower person and cloud bird
Take it in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpophTmjELM#t=38s

Course the nice thing about the Remakes is you get to see him in the post game and if you meet the right criteria you can fight him with a new team.


it's

it's a step up, so to speak

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Rabbi Raccoon posted:

It’s kinda weird that Groudon and Kyogre are set up to be these legendary rivals when Kyogre has literally every advantage over Groudon. And given how Water types can usually learn Ice moves he could probably take Rayquaza as well

Kyogre's moveset was ridiculous. Aside from all the big water (want to throw around your HP? Water Spout! General utility? Surf! Sheer power? Hydro Pump!) moves it got Thunderbolt, Thunder, Ice Beam & Blizzard and hey want to use your attacking stat for some reason? Body Slam & Earthquake just for kicks. And it got Calm Mind! It even learns Ice Beam & Calm Mind naturally so you dont have to use TMs on it. Sapphire players take on a level 45 Kyogre with the moveset Body Slam (it gets that too, why not!), Calm Mind, Ice Beam & Hydro Pump.

Groudon's really gets the short end of the stick. Kyogre has a fantastic special move pool to accommodate its special attack and then some okay physical moves if you really want to use them. Groudon has an okay special move pool (dragon claw, the fire moves, the electric moves to hit kyogre i assume, solar beam) because that's all Drought can do for it. Want physical? You have Bulk Up, Earthquake and....Ancient Power & Brick Break. Which fair's fair you have base 150 attack and a move to buff your 2 best stats you are going to deal damage, but kyogre gets everything it could ever want.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Switching the champion was a cute idea but they should have swapped out Juan's specialty for...anything else.

So far as credits vignettes go, RSE's is simple but I really enjoy it. The sprites are very cute!

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Blaze Dragon posted:

I'm pretty sure it's just there for the sake of catching you by surprise, and from there on it became a tradition for odd gens to change Champions in their third versions. It's a good twist for a first-timer, even if Wallace is far worse of a final challenge than Steven is.

And I agree on how Glacia is weirdly forgettable. I guess her design is just kind of okay and doesn't pop out, and her team is insanely boring. It's not Flint-level terrible because at least it sticks to her type but seriously, three members of the Spheal line and two Glalies? Then again, I guess the only other option was Regice and that wasn't happening...who the hell decided Ice was a good choice here? The same person that made Flint in Gen 4?

Outside of that, the portrait thing was a really good addition in my opinion but goddamn it looks terrible with enlarged sprites, I'm glad that got fixed after this game. The credits for RSE are always oddly emotional for me, they nail the whole "end of journey" feeling down and I can't quite explain why. Though of course, there's more to be done in Hoenn.

Phoebe's got the same problems, for that matter. 2 banettes, 2 dusclops...she's lucky the game introduced sableye. Really the boringness helps explain why they went with the weird teams they did in gen 1 & 2
They probably should have used like Poison & Grass instead. Swalot/Weezing/Seviper/Muk/Vileplume & Breloom/Roselia/Tropius/Bellossom and then I dont know swap one of Sidney's Shiftry or Wallace's Ludicolo.

The remakes helped a little. Phoebe swapped a dusclops for Dusknoir, Glacia dropped her 2 Sealeos for...2 Frosslass. Drake retained his 2 Flygons but swapped his Shelgon for a Kingdra. Which is a strange decision because you get the national dex after Kyogre is done with and Victory Road even has trainers with national dex pokemon. They got cool post-game rematches with full, unique memebred teams though so its not all bad.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Kurieg posted:

They do this again in Diamond/Pearl with Flint. The Fire type specialist of the elite four. Of course, there's literally only one fire type evolutionary family in the pre-platinum shinnoh dex. So Flint uses it, and the final stage of the fire starter. He also uses a Steelix, Lopunny, and Drifblim because they can learn fire moves(even if Drifblim's sole contribution is Will-o-the-wisp)

Drifblim kind of makes sense. It's a hot air balloon. Thematic!
Steelix...i guess could represent actual fire starting flint?
Lopunny......??


Solumin posted:

It really makes me wonder about their design process. A Fire type Elite 4 member should have made them realize the dex needed to be changed, or maybes the dex should have made them realize a Fire specialist wouldn't work well.

But that's Game Freak for you, I guess.

You'd think by the point they give a gym leader an ambipom & octillery, an e4 member 3 non-fire types and another e4 member a dustox & beautifly they'd have rethought their decision to exclude a ton of families who got new evolutions from the dex.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Hobgoblin2099 posted:

PokeSpe Norman is a treat and a half.


Lopunny is kinda anthropomorphic and ridiculously feminine in appearance (especially Mega Lopunny, which gets pantyhose).

So I guess it's supposed to be "Lopunny is hot?" or something? But that'd be pretty weird if so.

God that's probably it
they gave it that pose and a wolf whistle cry, they knew what they were doing

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



On one hand, I genuinely appreciate the effort they went to making such a large area for this. And so many different battle types! Truly, commendable.
It's probably not a coincidence that gen 4's battle frontier was much more compact. I suspect the remakes' opting for placing the Maison on a new "Battle Resort" area rather than just RS's dinky battle tower island was to reference the size of Emerald's frontier. It's quite packed, all things considered.

But also the emerald battle frontier is the worst of all battle facilities. I cannot wait for you to go into deeper detail and we start seeing payouts because oh my god what were they thinking?!

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Solumin posted:

Yeah, fair enough.

Personally I'm not a fan of darker stories anyway. But this sounds pretty stupid.

RS Arc is very stupid, yes

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I was going to give you a dragonite but man the movepool was not synched up with its stats at all huh

instead have another defensive wall
Tess the Foretress (Female) @Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/252 Special Defense / 4 Attack
Nature: Careful
Ability: Sturdy
Item: Leftovers Chesto Berry
Spikes
Toxic
Earthquake
Rest

Pike + Pyramid Set 2, since longevity seems useful there. I can't remember if Pyramid nullifies initial held items, but that's fine since Rest can take advantage of any Lum berries you find.

also i was genuinely going to give you a pokemon with Run Away but

quote:

The Ability Run Away does not guarantee escape here, but will be credited if the player does successfully escape with a Pokémon with the Ability.
the games are allergic to making Run Away ever useful in any circumstances

rannum fucked around with this message at 22:39 on May 4, 2018

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Crosspeice posted:

Ah shoot, I should've mentioned Item Clause. We're out of Leftovers space for the remaining sets. The Registeel is fine, but we're out of spaces for anymore submissions with Leftovers.

Ah, swap it with the Chesto Berry then. The only other chesto was for a different facility.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Explopyro posted:

Good luck weathering the Bullshit Frontier (and I hope our submissions serve you well!). Hopefully it won't end up being quite as painful as it always is for me.

I really wanted to like the Emerald Battle Frontier: loads of effort clearly went into it, and a lot of the facilities are really creative and sound like they'd be quite fun on paper (come on, they even threw in a Roguelike mode! This should be awesome!). And I liked the idea of a more challenging mode, because the main game content in Pokemon games tends to be rather easy. But it just ends up being so gruelling and punishing that any fun there could be quickly gets sucked out of it, at least in my opinion. I've never completed it without at least some savestate abuse.

There's also just something that makes battle facility battles feel qualitatively different to anything else in the game, and to my mind not in a good way; I'm not sure if it's the lack of experience/money gain (even though at this point you don't need them) making it feel like there's no progression, or something else...

On the other hand, this was the first game to have a Battle Factory and that one was honestly a pretty good idea. There are still moments when it can feel unfair (especially if the RNG gives you lousy choices for your team), but I suspect that's just the human tendency to misinterpret randomness rather than the game actually being biased against the player.

I'm honestly surprised the rental style wasn't just integrated into every battle tower after BW2 added a rental-type mode into even the PWT. Especially after gen 7 dropped triple & rotation, leaving battle tree with just singles, doubles & multi.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Emerald is the worst and I hate him and the fact they made him the same kid Oak was giving a pokedex to was just... awkwardly done.
So end of GS chapter (180) was this, Oak happily giving a small child the new pokedex and it's all a cute reference to the opening of the games.


But because by the time they made Emerald and made him a jerk who was rejected from having a Pokedex (shown finally in ch 332) and since he already knew who Emerald was (he's an orphan in Crystal's care, who was working with the Pokemon Acadmey) he does the catty thing of about to hand him the pokemon, going "not", gives him a total dress down and it's all just a bit forced, so to speak. I'd show scans but the ones I could find were weirdly translated and poor quality so oh well. Oak does at least believe in second chances and temporarily registers him to the pokedex so that if he can learn to not be a jerk and find the pokedex once more he can have it. But still.

A quick breakdown of the Emerald chapter's plot:
The Battle Frontier is readying for opening and to commemorate it Scott & the Brains are there for the opening ceremonies. Emerald crashes in, demands to challenge the Frontier, makes everyone mad and are about to ban him for life until some other reporters misinterpret it as a publicity stunt and are interested in seeing the boy compete before it opens to the public. To save face they give Emerald 7 days to beat all 7 facilities.

The actual challenging of the facilities is just set dressing but it does the usual Pokemon Adventures/Special thing of following details of the games to the letter for no real reason. There's a scene of Todd, yes the same one from Pokemon Snap, and a few other members of the press following along with Emerald's challenge as he goes through every single battle and room and getting board because he's going through the needed 140 battles to fight the brain. The battle pike has 4 pages devoted to its gimmick of maids giving you hints for the next rooms. Part of the climax is climbing the battle tower and they make sure to devote a page to everyone battling through the 100 floors. Aside from Tucker's challenge, where he brings in a boat of challengers, all the challengers are holograms because all the trainers in the real Frontier speak in all caps.

The reason Emerald is doing this is on orders from Crystal & Oak. Guile Hideout (Archie, if you'll remmeber from Omni's earlier post) has taken a bunch of pokemon from across the land and put them in the Facility's cpu trainers pokemon pools so they can go berserk. Emerald's job is to get those pokemon out, free them of mind control by using soils of their homelands to calm them down, and then the big thing is the REAL reason for both of them being there: Jirachi is set to wake up in this exact 7 day time period. Archie wants it for kyogre reasons, Emerald wants it because Oak & Crystal need to fix this mess in addition to stopping Archie:

At the end of the FRLG arc, Sird turns Red, Green, Blue, Yellow & Silver to stone while trying to capture Deoxys.

Emerald himself doesnt really care. Ruby & Sapphire are also brought along for other reasons but they're not in on the plans and generally not that important.

Anyway Guile catches Jirachi, summons a giant tidal Kyogre that will threaten to destroy things, some brief battling hapens, Emerald makes his big Character Development speech which resonates with Jirachi enough to free the other pokedex holders, they stop Archie, free all his pokemon and everyone's starter pokemons use the elemental hyper beams (& volt tackle) to destroy the Kyogre, the end. The final wish jirachi grants before going back to sleep is "Many people coming to the battle frontier!"




also through all this Emerald is best friends forever with Latias & Latios because why not. Latias even turns into a human form like the 5th movie

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



AradoBalanga posted:

I have one question to all of this: why is Red shirtless when he's turned to stone?

His battle with Deoxys involved his shirt getting destroyed

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Since we kind of blitzed through the Emerald manga, how about taking some quick tour through the anime's rendition of the Battle Frontier?

The Hoenn League wrapped up in June 2005, but DP was still in the works so it decided to take advantage of FRLG & Emerald coming out in the same year. Rather than head to a dedicated island for the Frontier, Scott built facilities all across...Kanto. Now Ash & friends can journey all around Kanto, name drop a bunch of old cities, visit a few old friends, see more Kanto pokemon and then tackle the Facilities. Kill 2 birds at once. Unfortunately the Kanto half of this equation is pretty lame and aside from Brock, Misty and a few other more minor things this could have been set anywhere.

In general, each facility is pared down to basically being gym battles that may/may not have a gimmick to them. Challengers don't battle any other trainers, just going straight to the Brain. In Ash's case there is usually an unrelated misadventure prior to that, as anime does. I'd say this is probably for the best, but it is a shame they didn't do more to make them stand out.



The first facility Ash challenges happens to be the same as Crosspeice: Battle Factory and Nolan. He's also probably the most boring.
Nolan in the anime is a fun loving inventor type, making things like automated tanks and biplanes. The factory in the anime is also shown to be a more literal industrial factory though you only ever see Nolan & his assistant in it. Aaaaand beyond one other thing we'll get to in a moment that's about it. Dude had 2 episodes to himself but was just kind of there.

So they do actually set up The Factory's gimmick of rental pokemon. Nolan keeps a bunch of pokemon and asks Ash to choose whoever he wants to fight any of the random pokemon Nolan will choose. Could be fun to see Ash adapt to Pokemon he's never seen before; there was a filler early in the series of Ash being forced to use rentals in a pokemon exam and it was great. But, instead Ash insists he uses...

This random wild Articuno that Nolan healed from a wing injury & befriended. I suspect this is meant to mirror how he could use any Pokemon, including non-banned legendaries but it's weird he's not even using a Pokemon he owns for the challenge.
More frustrating is Ash isn't using any rental Pokemon, he's using


His charizard. Which Nolan agrees to anyway, despite it not being part of the facility. Also Ash called in this Charizard without telling anyone so this is might presumptuous of you.

The battle is 1 on 1 and it's okay, but why even bother with the set up if you're just going to do your own thing? Later battles are a bit more interesting in its battles and characters, so at least it's generally up from here.




Oh and Scott's a consistent recurring character in all this and is what kickstarted Ash doing this challenge. He's a cool dude with a cool car that he drives dangerously up cliffsides cool.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Wasn't Ash forced to use Arbok, Weezing, and Meowth in that rental thing while James had to use Ash's Pokemon?

yes, and it was great. Ash even performed pretty well even if Arbok not being able to use wrap on Jolteon because it's spiky was stupid.
A+ episode

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



they really should have just caught the Regi
Worked out great for Brandon who caught all three mostly off screen and uses them with relative ease

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Crosspeice posted:

drat, you're pumping these out fast, Onmi. I also agree with opinions on Emerald, he definitely doesn't feel earned when Yellow is a much better character and a girl beating Lance with a Butterfree and Raticate is much more interesting than whatever the hell Emerald was using. Like the Battle Frontier is tough and the Frontier Brains are no joke and they kinda just gloss over it, it sucks.
To underline how much more Yellow had to work with, the Yellow saga had 50 chapters to itself and could mostly do its own thing since the RGB saga covered the bulk of things in the games and Yellow didn't add much.
Emerald had 35 chapters and was based entirely around the battle frontier + jirachi. I think it ran at the same time as the FRLG saga which was also 35 chapters.

I get the feeling they started to regret devoting specific sagas to the remakes and follow up games. Or just did not have the time for them. Platinum had 25 chapters, HGSS had 19 and boy oh boy could you feel it, ORAS was 22, BW2 was on hiatus as mentioned earlier and USUM didn't get its own thing at all.

quote:


Also, rannum, if you're gonna go over each Frontier Brain when they appear in the anime, I can put your posts in the OP.

Sure, if you find them interesting enough. The plan was to talk about them as you fight them. Some of them don't have much to say but it's still fun to talk about the anime and how it tries to handle things.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I actually think the intent of the meteor going into another universe is to reference Deoxys' event island. It's why when rayquaza destroys the meteor, deoxys' weird triangle appears, moves in the exact manner you chase it, then emerges.

quote:

Filled with Pokémon and people like us. A world where maybe the evolution of Pokémon took a slightly different path, where Mega Evolution is unknown... A world where that war 3,000 years ago...never happened. A world where the ultimate weapon was never even built. And in that Hoenn of that world... What would happen if one day, out of the blue, a meteoroid appeared?

Which would add a layer of irony to the entire thing: if devon's plan had succeeded, it would have been fine. Perhaps the transport procedure would strip away parts of the meteor, allowing for safe reentry? Birth Island itself might be the meteor. We're already sending it across dimensions, why not into the past as well, right?

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Before he starts the next facility I just want to note that a perfect Gold Symbol streak in the Factory (+the free 3 from Scott) only resulted in 47 BP
Almost all of the good moves & items are 48 per pop. We can't even afford dolls for our base!

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Worth noting something about the roaming legendaries:

quote:

In the Generation III games, the data for a Pokémon's IVs are stored in a 32-bit integer. However, when a roaming Pokémon is caught, only the last 8 bits are transferred. While the HP IV is unaffected, the Pokémon can only have a maximum Attack IV of 7. The other IVs will always be 0.

Due to this, their Hidden Power type will always be Fighting with a power of 30 or 31.
oops!

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



roaming pokemon were almost tolerable in DPt and that's because the poketch tracked their current location.
Except even then this is offset by Cresselia & Mesprit needing to train up a wobuffet and platinum having 5 roaming pokemon. And all three of the legendary birds knew roost because gently caress you!

Thundurus/Tornadus were a little better in that you only had to deal with 1 of them, they roamed only half of unova, and you had a specific instant tell they were in the area, but its still bad.

Explopyro posted:


They actually fixed that bug in Emerald! It's accurate for R/S and FR/LG though. There is one other oddity worth discussing, though: the IVs and nature etc of the roaming pokemon are saved when it's generated by the game (in this one, when you decide what colour BZZT is), not when you capture it, so it's very difficult to reset for them if that's something you'd want to do.

Oh huh you're right, I didn't read the bulbapedia header properly. Still means that if you want actually usable legendary dogs you need colosseum, though. Well that and not needing to play FRLG three times to get all of them while dealing with all their other bs.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Glazius posted:

30 levels on you. Is he this game's Red? Or are there vast numerical postgame realms to explore?
He's the Red, yes.
What he showed is basically it. You have the trainers on the boat, some people in the Trick House aaaand that's it. I think there might be post-game updates to the people in the Match Call, but that varies hard based on the trainers in question. There are significantly leveled up rematches against the gym leaders but good luck ever seeing those in even a thorough play through, much less multiple times

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I'm guessing you're coming back for the other special dialog, but easier to miss is you can inspect the computer the rocket is looking at

quote:

A report with graphs and text is on the PC monitor. "The Influence of Magnetic Waves of POKEMON Evolution"...
... ... ... ... ... ...
It's too difficult to understand...

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



You can't run from the battle palace forever, cross.


Omega Ruby did realize just "harsh sunlight" doesn't get across danger very well so it's represented by setting the sky on fire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbUQ2t-zRtI#t=110s

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Oh two for one. Excuse the inconsistent screen sizes bulbapedia my source files are just like that

Lucy & the Battle Pike

Thanks for going out of order! Lucy was #4 in Ash's journey.
Anime Lucy is cool, calm & collected. The first quarter of her episode is her being cool and taking out team rocket who easily tricked ash into a fake battle pike and stole his Pikachu. Dramatic leaps, dramatic wind, dramatic posing, she's great. She'll even throw around fancy seviper-themed pinwheels
For some reason she now has a sister and a bunch of (entirely female) students
The students don't really say anything. Barbara gushes over Lucy all the time, runs battle commentary on Lucy since she's not one to talk a lot, and it kind of makes her annoyed. That's about it.

But the big thing here is she has a very visible crush on Brock. It's love at first sight! She's always blushing anytime Brock looks at her or comments here. The Battle Pike is actually closed that day (because....?) but Lucy's crush is what has her go "OH it's always open to friends its fine lets go."

What is it about Brock? Is it...his voice? Is it...being handsome? Is it....his care for his Bonsly? Is it....his winning personality??


she likes squinty eyes

What about the Pike and battle itself?

The factory in the anime tried. It did set up the rental shtick even if it didn't happen. But the Pike doesn't bother. It's just the battle against Lucy. There's no weird rooms, no random wild pokemon, no maids. The battle field is on a swamp but that doesn't really factor into anything. It's just a standard 2 vs 2 battle. She uses Seviper but her ace in the hole is her Milotic which is the entire reason there's a swamp here at all.
Worth mentioning that the gimmick of Ash's time in the battle frontier is bringing in his reserves constantly. For this, he brought back his Phanpy who evolved a few episodes prior into a Donphan. Donphan beat Seviper with no real issue, then Pikachu cleaned up Milotic. There was some sneaky stuff with explosions causing dust clouds and Milotic activating Facade I guess? Otherwise it was just an ok battle but you can start to see the issue I brought up with Nolan about not really...doing anything, with the Facility concept.

By the way in the anime, this is near Fuschia City. Not featured: Fuschia City, the Safari Zone, Koga, Koga's anime-only apprentice/sister, Janine or...anything notable to Fuschia in general.


Spenser & the Battle Palace


Spenser was #5. Unlike Greta, Tucker & Lucy Spenser got 2 episodes to himself because I guess the writers finally realized they could squeeze more out of these characters.
Ash gets lost in the woods with just his injured, pokeball-less Sceptile separated from Pikachu. Spenser finds & nurses his pikachu back to health because he's a naturalistic mystic man who roams the woods with his pokemon all the time. Let's him commune with his heart, pokemon and the earth you see. He even resolves conflict, saving Ash from a bunch of beedrill, by having his Venusaur's flower placate the bees. If these episodes were dubbed by 4kids he absolutely would have been voiced like a hippie is what I'm saying.


Here's the battle palace!
Now forget about that because you won't be seeing it again or even the insides.

I emphasized Spenser being a naturalist because this is sort of them trying to get across the actual Palace's gimmick of not being in control of your Pokemon. Like the idea is supposed to be believing in your Pokemon or whatever? And being in nature all the time helps that, obviously. Which leads to Spenser having a 3 vs 3 battle in the outside, with trainer & pokemon constantly moving throughout the entire city-sized jungle. Since there's mor environment to work with, the Pokemon can take charge a bit in how they dodge and launch attacks after given a command. At least they tried more than they did with the Factory & Pike, even if the gimmick isn't 1:1. The logic is sort of there!
For the best I think since this is probably one of the more dynamic battles. Jumping between trees, rushing down mountains, diving into rivers, climbing waterfalls....they even all take a break for berries since it's like a day long battle. It had been a while since I've seen it, but it was pretty good. Probably my favorite of the first 5 or so.
If you were curious, Spenser uses Shiftry, Venusaur & Claydol. Ash used Sceptile, Heracross (clowned near instantly by solar beam) and Swellow. Yeah he doesn't use any of his possible pokemon from the games. Not the last time that happens.

In the anime, this is on a new island (Metalica Island) supposedly near Seafoam Island. Not featured: seafoam islands, articuno, cinnabar just....nothing of note.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I don't think I ever even tried Trainer Hill in emerald, since I just wrote it off as Trainer Tower clone giving me one item(s) I couldn't use otherwise. Shame the timer is so...bad, these are pretty neat ideas.

Honestly I'm surprised they didn't bring this back for ORAS and use amiibo support. Then again, gamefreak just seems totally uninterested in doing anything with amiibo. It's the 6 smash bros amiibo and the shadow mewtwo pokken card (only on first runs, not released at all with the switch version) and that's it.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I enjoyed the irony of the shortest facility having the longest write up paired with the longest facility having a short one.
Glad Tess worked out so well for you. Not many opportunities for walls to shine in these games otherwise.


I'm going to shove Tucker in with Greta & Anabel and have Brandon on his own, later. He' has the most going on, more than the others by a large margin.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Daisy getting a full fame checker entry is kind of weird since she's otherwise not like...important, or anything.

It does mean she & Mr. Fuji get sprites though, which is neat?


Fuji's is cute since the weedle on his shoulder & the cubone at his knee is reference to his TCG card.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



SonicRulez posted:

I really like the remakes. I'd rather play FR/LG over R/S and I'd rather play HG/SS over D/P. Emerald is different enough to get its own ranking and I disliked Diamond so much that I've never actually played Platinum. I'm told it's better though and I'll just take everyone's word for it.

I hope I'm not missing a joke here, but wasn't there an E-reader deal to get Ho-oh and Lugia in Gen 3? Did I make that up?

You did. The only e-reader event ticket to get released was the Eon Ticket. The other tickets were exclusive to events that you had to use the wireless adapter for. Until I checked bulbapedia, I didn't even know the Mystic ticket was given away in america at all, though the Old Sea Map remained japan exclusive.

Europe, of all places, did get an exclusive Lugia & Ho-oh give away to gen 3 games in 2006, but Japan & America had to use the ticket.

The only other way to get a legal Ho-oh in Gen 3 was to capture & purify all shadow pokemon, then complete the Mt Battle Challenge (but not the one in the story!). The only way to get a legal Lugia was to capture & purify it in Gale of Darkness
Though since they were effectively event Pokemon, they don't count towards national dex completion in any of the gen 3 games or (surprisingly) DPt

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Crosspeice posted:

(behind B2W2, obviously)

you have good taste, my friend

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



One, Two, Three

Greta & the Battle Arena



Greta was #2. The personality they went with was basically what the game shows: determined, strong, generally a good trainer. No weird quirks to be found. The team rocket attack was dealt with instantly by...Pikachu using thunderbolt. It was literally just a minute & a half of filler mid-battle and a minute of that was the motto; she didnt even do anything! She doesnt even do anything special at the end, give me something!
I got nothing to talk about here so I'll ramble about the battle, which in the script i have to imagine was just "Snorlax is awesome" for 10 pages. Ash knew going into the battle that she would be using Hariyama & Medicham so he brought his Grovyle (for speed) and...Snorlax. For...defense?

Anyway Greta decimates Grovyle near instantly in that way only the anime can: using your big ol' ham hands to block bullet seed, using grovyle jumping at it to send it crashing into the ceiling with a focus punch because running into a fist at terminal velocity hurts. So in comes Snorlax to carry the entire battle and tanks like 3 sets of arm thrust because you see the belly is so big & soft; there's even a part where snorlax goes tumbling back and bounces around like a ball. They trade back & forth for a while and Snorlax is just eating up all these focus punches & arm thrusts like, again, only the anime can. He wins with a knock out that also freezes because it's Ice Punch.
The Medicham battle is ridiculous because the only thing it does pretty much the entire match is crazy gravity defying flips and focus punch. Like rapid fire focus punches, just slamming it into the thick hide. Shout out to thepart of the fight where Medicham froze it with Ice Punch, Ash ordered it to Rest and then Greta has to break it out of the Ice to actually do any damage. Ash wins this scenario with what he tried to do with Grovyle earlier: he launches snorlax into the air by using Hyper Beam at the ground, then slams into medicham with an air launch body slam, killing it instantly.




As for the Arena itself, they kept it's a Dojo aaaand that's it. She has a ton of students, so this actually would have been a good way to incorporate the facility's gimmick in the game, even! But I suppose it's just as well because they didn't keep the gimmick at all. You might have noticed two things in the battle summary: she used 2 Pokemon and it went until a standard knock out condition was met. For all intents & purposes this was just a better (if more ridiculous) Chuck or Brawly fight. If they wanted to make her a fighting leader they could have given her the 2 she actually uses (Heracross & Breloom) but....They instead set up this as a gimmick:


A wheel! Spin the wheel and that determines if its 1 on 1, 2 on 2 or 3 on 3. 2 minutes prior, Scott established she had a Hariyama & Medicham and oh look he spun a 2 and she used exactly those two pokemon with no other pokemon in her possession seen. Could have at least pretended there would be a shake up is all I'm saying.

Tucker & the Battle Dome


Tucker was #3 and, oh man, could you imagine if 4kids had gotten to this episode? They wouldn't be able to handle themselves with the guy based on Hard Gay. Anyway Tucker is a reasonable show man, he does extravagant entrances, extravagant poses, and everyone in the city comes out to see him. Every time he orders one of his Pokemon he gives everything dramatic and flowery descriptions (BURN WITH YOUR FIERY MIGHT, ARCANINE: FLAMETHROWER; LET YOUR FIRE FLOWERS BLOSSOM, ARCANINE: FIRE BLAST). But generally he's a good sport. In the game & Adventures, he's kind of secretly a sore loser & kind of pompous judging by his dialog, but here he's just generally confident and accepts loss with grace. Also his entrance gave us this mental image and that's always a treat.


So they obviously didn't do the tournament gimmick. Tucker only got one episode, there' sjust no time for that outside of a league (until Best Wishes...)! But they did try to incorporate the "tactics" part of things. They even call out how this all relates to hsi symbol, something they don't do with any other brain. His battle is a double battle where his Swampert (slow, defensive) compliments his Arcanine (fast, strong) and he shows both his Pokemon and allows the challenger to make any changes to their team there & then if they'd like. Ash uses his Swellow & Corphish and does use tactics such as: bubble beam to make steam, using quick attack to lure tucker's pokemon into attacking each other, riding swellow because its a double battle with a flying pokemon and you can't not ride on them.
It probably would have been cute to compare this battle to a contest battle, and have Ash work with May on tactics, but they dont really think of that until Diamond & Pearl.

Anabel & the Battle Tower

Anabel was #6. If you're wondering why the different image, it's because between Spenser & Anabel, the anime changed openings. I didn't really comment on it, but the Advanced & DP animes were pretty cool because the openings constantly updated with new captures, evolutions, releases and in the case of the battle frontier brains they filled in as Ash met them. They kind of stopped that, it's a shame.... The final Advanced opening was very good, it's called SPURT, is sung by Ash's (japanese, obviously) voice actress and is full of wonderful fanservice. Even Butterfree, Pidgeot, Primeape & Larvitar are here and they dont even get a cameo in the battle frontier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOhHqn47HVk



OH, right, Anabel. So as you can see from Crosspiece's update Anabel doesn't actually have anything going on. Barely any text or mannerisms beyond a silly laugh and recognizing your talent. Charitably, she is "Soft spoken."
So the anime made her a Psychic. And make her use entirely Psychic Pokemon (Alakazam, Metagross & her ace Espeon). Why not! She communicates with pokemon, the plants (happy flowers literally singing) and the stars through telepathy (sorry, sorry "Empathy". She's an Empath) and is able to understand what they're saying/thinking. Her introduction has her talk down an agitated Beedrill & Gyarados and work through their issues.
As you'd expect from an empath, she's a good person. Likes how much Pikachu gest along with Ash, chases off TR, treats everyone to a rest & lunch at her house, helps clean up Ash's tauros, plays with ash in the water, etc.
They also try to play up her supposed androgyny? It's a shocking reveal when it's revealed she's a woman because....??


Why is this even a tower in the anime? They only fight in one room , there's not even any seating, she doesn't live here. Battle Room.
Since the Tower doesn't have a gimmick at all, they instead use Anabel's not-telepathy combined with psychic pokemon being absolute bullshit to fight. Using Psychic to just stop things in its tracks or turn around projectiles at random, too op, please nerf.
She can verbally give commands, but she mostly communicates directly with her Pokemon's minds. Which you wouldn't think would really matter, but it apparently throws people off...supposedly. Just go with it.
Anabel's psychic pokemon empathy destroys everything with her Alakazam beating Corphish & Tauros near instantly & Metagross cleaning up Pikachu.
Ash's solution to this is use strategy (?!!?), not power which is represented in:
-returning his confused corphish to its pokeball, then immediately sending it back out without actually switching anyone out (?!)
-dodging meteor mash, then jabbing it into the air (where it...stays, because its levitating?) with horn attack
-disrupting Epseon's concentration (thus, unable to communicate with Anabel) by jumping to & disabling the overhanging lights to dodge zap cannon

I wonder what goes on in the battle planning of these episodes sometimes. They can be enjoyable, but so arbitrary to what does/doesn't work.

Anabel also has a crush on Ash. Crushin' hard with those anime wavering eyes and subtle blush marks, as you do. Unlike with Lucy & Brock, this crush is entirely thanks to Ash's own merits. She doesn't confess it, though.

Next up is Brandon. Spoiler, his battle does not involve spending 3 hours climbing a pyramid.

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rannum
Nov 3, 2012



flinging sapphire into the pod was still stupid no matter how much is sugar coated with love making you do dumb things, honestly.

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