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taters
Jun 13, 2005


quote:

While the Remington name is unlikely to disappear, the companyís travails highlight the shifting fortunes of the firearms industry and its fraught position in the nationís economic and political life. The companyís fortunes took a hit after the election of Donald Trump, a self-proclaimed ďtrue friendĒ of the gun industry, because Hillary Clintonís defeat erased fears among gun enthusiasts about losing access to weapons. Sales plummeted, and retailers stopped re-ordering as they found themselves stuffed with unsold inventory.

I've got an old scoped 552 that we inheritied from my wife's father when he died. Its a great varmit gun for around the farm.

I buy their ammo, and I'm a fan of the 870, but when I think of my wish list of future (new) firearms, they just aren't on it. If I got a good deal on an antique/vintage firearm I might consider it; their place in the history of American firearms is immense.

I really hope whoever acquires them continues the ammunition arm of the business. I believe they own Marlin as well, but I have no idea how that figures into the bankruptcy of Remington.

quote:

Holders of the gunmakerís $550 million term loan will take an 82.5 percent equity stake in Remington while third-lien noteholders get 17.5 percent of the company and four-year warrants for a 15 percent stake, according to Remington. Creditors will also provide a $100 million debtor-in-possession loan to finance operations throughout bankruptcy.

edit - link to story https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-in-bankruptcy

taters fucked around with this message at Feb 13, 2018 around 01:31

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Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011



Who knows they may get bought by good people and be good again. Or get bought and even their self defense ammo will be lovely.

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

I get blamed for a lot of wheelgun purchases. I'm a terrible terrible enabler, or so I am told.


https://i.imgur.com/7tKwGMb.mp4

Jeremy_X
Jul 27, 2006


Herr Tog posted:

Who knows they may get bought by good people and be good again.

If we're posting pipe dreams maybe they'll get bought by someone who forces them to produce firearms that are stronger and more reliable than Ruger and more creative than Kel-Tec.

That's actually one of my I'm suddenly a multi-billionaire/found a genie dreams.

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

I get blamed for a lot of wheelgun purchases. I'm a terrible terrible enabler, or so I am told.


Maybe Hi Point will buy them.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Yuuup.

Remington has been on death row for nearly a decade now. I remember around 2008 or 2010 or so people here who worked in gunshops posting horror stories about factory new 870s where the finish came off on your hands when you took them out of their boxes and 700s with comically off-kilter mounting holes drilled in them. I seriously think one of the first pieces of newbie advice I was given when I first started posting here was "only buy Remington if it's 30+ years old, check pawnshops."

The ammo bit is interesting to consider, but I would be amazed if they were managing to lose money making ammo. I mean, they got really loving creative with their incompetence so it's not impossible, but I kind of doubt it. If it's a money making enterprise it will get spun off in bankruptcy or sold to someone else. Maybe it continues under the Remington name to cash in on recognition (kind of like Winchester ammo) or maybe it just gets folded into some existing company.

On the whole it's probably a net positive. At the very least we don't have to deal with telling everyone who wants their first centerfire rifle to stay the gently caress away from what your average non-gun enthusiast thinks is a quality brand based purely on it being an old as gently caress company.

Now someone go get a broom and let's see if we can push Colt over while we're at it.

Jeremy_X
Jul 27, 2006


Cyrano4747 posted:


...Now someone go get a broom and let's see if we can push Colt over while we're at it.

Only after they figure out how to crash the Python collector market

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


Jeremy_X posted:

Only after they figure out how to crash the Python collector market

The 870 wingmaster is the new python. The worlds greatest smoothest shotgun ever made for people who have never touched a shotgun that costs more than $600 new.

This is a really hard earned achievement to be $900 million in the red after the most profitable decade in the civilian firearms industry history.

To be fair going bankrupt is the MOST American thing for a gun company to do, think Winchester 1965, Savage in the 80ís, Colt on the verge forever.

Kennebago
Nov 12, 2007

van de schande is bevrijd
hij die met walkuren rijd


taters posted:

I really hope whoever acquires them continues the ammunition arm of the business. I believe they own Marlin as well, but I have no idea how that figures into the bankruptcy of Remington.

Remington Outdoor Company is filing Chapter 11. Marlin is part of it. Obviously the new owners (i.e. the banks) will call the shots once the process is done and Cerberus is formally out, so who knows what's going to happen from there when they go to sell. My thought is that Remington will be sold whole, or nearly whole.

Without any question this is a good thing for the company. If you read their 10Ks and look at the financials it becomes pretty clear that just getting rid of those massive interest payments will substantially retrack the company. And that's before you get into the management stuff.

Weird thing to say that a bankruptcy is good, but this 100% needed to happen.

It is kind of amusing that the dominant feeling in comments online has been that "the bean counters finally ruined 'em!" There's nearly one billion dollars of debt on the balance sheet. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the bean counters didn't do that.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


When Cerebus acquired them they had a little under 300 million in debt, at the end it was 900 million. Itís almost like they just kept the business headed in the same direction with a little more acceleration.

It seems like the business model must be fundamentally flawed somehow.

I herd rumblings from within the gun community that it might be impossible to make themselves profitable.

Meanwhile the political environment seems the main scapegoat on their fortunes like somehow 2017 sunk them, nevermind their deteriorating state over the last 15 years.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006


They had trouble selling guns under obama.

It ainít the politics

Numlock
May 19, 2007

Hey kid got any keystone light?

Cyrano4747 posted:

They had trouble selling guns under obama.

It ainít the politics

Itís telling how few people care, at least from my brief survey of the gun related internet.

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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006


Numlock posted:

Itís telling how few people care, at least from my brief survey of the gun related internet.

I was at my range last friday and got into a conversation with one of the old dudes who's always there fine tuning his hand loads. He's kind of a poster child for "old man gun range regular." We got talking about the Remington thing and he was actively happy they were going down because of the low quality of their crap over the last few decades. This is a guy who waxes poetic about old S&Ws and still grunts and makes a comment about Ol' Bill when someone mentions Ruger. The fact that he doesn't even have a twinge of nostalgic longing for them says a loving LOT.

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