|
I think a good thing would be to make sure that each party didn't represent the same agenda, because that makes voting in national elections utterly meaningless.
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2018 21:20
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 03:36 |
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Southpark is a dangerous chemical that harms brain growth in children. The rebuttal of someone who doesn't have many worries. Hope you don't get ever caught in a riot.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2018 22:00
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:There is plenty of hot takes you can still be making if you really must, but it feels hard to believe anyone in 2018 is still trying to beat the "both parties are the same" drum. It seems truer now than it has been in decades. There's so much corruption it can't even be hidden, everyone's in bed against the common enemy: the poor. I used to think the Democrats were incompetent, but these days I feel that they're letting the Republicans win by design. As long as their constituents believe they're trying, they can have their cake and eat it too.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2018 22:16
|
|
|
Doctor Butts posted:whoooo boy The prevailing attitude: if I have to explain it to you, you're not good enough to understand anyway. Well done. Does someone have a real reason the "lesser of two evils" is a valid argument? What do you do when one evil says you can only have water and the other says you can only have food? No one's really explained to me how the parties are helping ordinary people. Folks just throw around their go-to insults. viral spiral posted:It's always funny when people still pretend the DNC and Hillary would have reigned in banks, corporate power, monopolies, and Wall Street if elected, even though the DNC and Hillary took more money from all of them than Trump did.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2018 22:24
|
|
|
Then explain why it is that everyone in America wants better health care but nobody is getting it? Why everyone wants more jobs, but they aren't coming? That we don't want to be embroiled in conflicts, yet it keeps happening? Are you implying that half the country wants no healthcare, no jobs and expensive military ventures we can't afford? It's lazy and dumb, in my view, to give one side a pass because you like their rhetoric slightly more.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2018 22:44
|
|
|
Your post and points are well-taken and I'm glad someone decided to flesh it out instead of hand-waving it away. However, there's a problem. When these evils become worse, their corruption will be viewed (correctly) as something preventable. We will see very real Fascism in the states, not just the grumbling of a few right-wing cranks, because their leadership will say "See? Democracy just gives way to this kind of thing! One side sets you up and the other knocks you down. They were in cahoots the whole time." Even though it's reductive and not always true, by that time the outrage will be even more palpable than it is now. People will want solutions, sweeping reforms - and they'll get them. To me, trying to work inside the system is just as bad as being accelerationist. The latter wants things to just blow up now, rip the bandaid off, whatever you'd call it. But that would be a painful, deadly process and nowhere near as quick as some would have us believe. The former calls for patience, saying "we can fix it" all the while undermining real populism and socialist moves for a fairer system. They only do this, in my view, because it's more time to line their pockets before the ugliness really erupts. I remember hearing people I grew up with talking about joining the workforce after school, none of them going into their chosen fields and more or less unhappy that they had to get the same lousy jobs as undegreed people. They talked about hating corporate culture, but then they told themselves that they could "work within the system" to change it into something better. In reality, all they've done is given it a friendlier face. The teeth socketed therein are sharper than ever.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2018 00:27
|
|
|
Condiv posted:i just learned that the meager raise i've been working towards for 4 years has been cancelled thanks to the "lesser" evil, macron. thanks macron, i'm sure that will help motivate non-nazis to vote for you. Saying this out loud to people, how often would you say the reaction you get is "at least it's not the other guys!" ?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2018 18:48
|
|
|
Condiv posted:well, the other people i work with have all lost their raises, and they also hate macron. so not as much as you'd think Goddamn. I'm sorry. It seems like the world over we're having this problem, unelectable people with zero interest in making things better for anyone but themselves. On an upshot, China has gracefully sidestepped this problem by going back to having one guy just be in power forever.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
See I vote for the lesser of two evils because I like to get hosed to death slower.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 29, 2018 02:38
|
|
|
Established parties actively suppress third parties. Every time someone runs on their own ticket they get painted as crazies or dummies. The mainstream media serves D and R, not the voter. You may try to get around this argument by saying a small campaign isn't viable in the current system but *that* is the only way for such a movement to start. It has to start small and gradually accrue more people and influence. People who tell you it's your job to vote one way or for a lesser evil are the reason we don't have real debate. They prop up the system with their simple view of things, probably because they are reasonably comfortable with things the way they are. Plenty of affluent people like to pretend to be communists, for instance, but they wouldn't encourage a general strike or anything radical enough to shake things up. Lesser of two evils is just something the status quo folks hit you over the head with during election years. If you need healthcare, employment, a home/car NOW they tell you "vote for this party and wait". They don't have sympathy. If you died tomorrow and your corpse wasn't a useful prop, they'd act like you never existed at all.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2018 02:46
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 03:36 |
|
|
gaj70 posted:In the U.S., it's because they are crazy -- or at least political incompetitents. Anyone with any sense will nominally run as an R or D because party registration doesn't really matter. Neither Team R nor Team D has any real way of enforcing party discipline. There are lots of people that run for third parties in all levels, though. They're not ALL crazy, they just get railroaded by the status quo. The crazy ones get more media attention because they make anybody who isn't running either blue or red seem like fringes. As to the party discipline thing, again, that happens differently at all levels. At the national level we can see people being rewarded or chastised depending on how their efforts serve their party. Yeah, I see a lot of similarities between our (US) system and the French system.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2018 21:53
|
|