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So black panther is most definitely the best mcu movie to date. It helps that coogler has an editor who isn't afraid of tension or takes longer than 4 seconds. Killmonger being the embodiment of what Trump voters think Blm is was really annoying. And not even doing the king thing and forcing him to live and killing him with kindness to actually show distance from the other Kings would've been nice. The other thing that bothered me was how in every other mcu film, every bad guy is a coded outsider and everyone is a hyper Nazi. In this, it was a straight civil war where those who eventually surrendered only did so because they would've died other wise, not from any sort of enlightenment other than that black on black crime is bad. The false dichotomy presented between white genocide or full on publicity of wakanda didn't play well, when they show a potential answer at the end that doesn't involve flashing the cash to the world. Killmonger's final lines really irked me. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 22:03
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That he's not nuanced at all is the problem. If he was nuanced, those box office record breaking ticket sales get militarized. Lupita needs to be Poison Ivy. She was killing it in the green, made me feel bad objectifying her every time she was on screen. That outfit she had in Korea, phew.
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Feb 17, 2018 23:18
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He's talking about folks who "look like" him. Black folks. Him being shown to be a genocidal maniac who will talk about ancestors dropping out of slave ships left a bad taste in my mouth. He's a strawman. That SheldonK isn't even a more nuanced counter point to erik's off the deep end, compounded with giving up on him when bp could've been a king and shoved a life saving bead in his chest, really didn't send a great message. I've got a roommate who talks like MBJ, and we live down the street from Fruitvale station, should I stop debating his issues like when he brings up his issues with people going to see this over the thurgood Marshall flick, or continue reaching out and talking it out? Notice how Loki is as burnt up over relatively nothing and he's a franchise regular. Just felt the writing let down a fantastic film. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 23:47
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How can they have an end credits scene about the white man who killed their father living in redemption, but not try and save their own blood?
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Feb 18, 2018 00:01
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BrianWilly posted:Yeah um Bucky didn't kill T'Chaka. Oh yeah, setup for that one, he only killed the starks and others. Point still stands, we have a veritable monster and he's cooling out, while they rather just give erik a dope spot to die at. Complete the circle they started with mbaka and give him his back and raise him as a wakandan. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 00:16
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BrianWilly posted:Bucky was mind-controlled by Nazis into committing his crimes. No one ever forced Killmonger to do anything. That's the thing, every one else has an out, but they tie erik to real trauma and proclaim him wrong. It only kind of works for magneto because of the sheer repercussions any perpetrator of the Holocaust faced. We have yet to see Justice, probably never will, so his response to this, on top of being orphaned by his people, is only slightly off base. Wow they have the same name.
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Feb 18, 2018 00:22
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Steve2911 posted:Magneto's from a whole other franchise. They're all avengers. I'm not saying he should've been good. I'm saying that more nuance could've been had between white genocide and being an open nation, which the film tries to say are the only options. The only bad thing that happens is that someone that was betrayed killed someone who betrayed them and then gained the allegiance of other tribes. Even mbaka is like, ok? What if instead of genocide he planned to regentrify the major metropolitan areas for black folks? Or created a new freedom town?
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Feb 18, 2018 00:30
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Didn't know that was a meme. Black folks talk like that in general when it comes to style so I thought it was just an extension of that. The women in the movie are awesome. The very first action shot of mbaka's tribe is a woman smashing someone. The general was killing it with her staff, had the audience cheering.
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Feb 18, 2018 08:58
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Kurzon posted:Killmonger's father we-must-liberate-all-the-black-people mission felt a little odd to me because black people are as fractured along ethnic, tribal, and religious lines as European ones (or even more so these days; there are no civil wars in Europe right now). It made no sense to me that N'Jobu saw African-Americans as "his" people. I'm not trying to be a troll by saying this, BTW. You should check out the book post traumatic slave syndrome by Dr Joy DeGruy. She talks about how Africans see us as the taken ones, but still African.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:49
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Arist posted:Sure, if you ignore all context If the 2nd credit scene was cia dude pulling a revolver ocelot and saying the plan worked, the movie wouldn't have changed a bit. He treats them like poo poo until he is saved/realizes they have value, earns their trust and then is instrumental in getting them to hand over tech to the US. He should've whipped off a mask to reveal to be Black widow. The movie uses black history without doing it's home work, as black isolation is a good thing for our people considering the United States history like Tulsa's black wall Street.
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Feb 18, 2018 13:15
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temple posted:people are demanding wakanda do something. but you are the only person honest enough to admit it. people expect wakanda to oppose neoliberalism, which means become n.korea for all intents and purposes. wakanda was economically pure of exploitation but accused of being a bystander to oppression. wakanda steps in to confront oppression but now are accused of participating in exploitation. its like i said above, wakanda is expected to be more moral than the rest of world while being responsible for 0.0% of the oppression that exists in the world. people only see black and white. They are for all intents and purposes the world power of the mcu. That they don't do more than put up a couple out reach centers in Oakland, which anyone would tell you would still be overcrowded and overworked, they become complicit in the oppression. It is very easy to see where underprivileged districts are, just use the gerrymandered district lines, and get to work. In Oakland right now, a friend of mine works on a committee as a grant writer just to find funding to fight Berkeley with district redraws. This movie should've stayed away from the real, it does nothing but ruin the fake narrative they're trying to play at.
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Mar 6, 2018 16:06
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temple posted:you are complicit in oppression, how can you judge? I know you're not saying me, a black man from the south, is somehow complicit in my people's oppression. The wakandans literally have no equal in the mcu. They could easily fund every black community and no one could stop them. Putting up tech centers in the tech center capital, that doesn't even bare the brunt of inequality like say where they filmed this in Georgia, is an empty gesture, especially when it will all be forgotten by the time Thanos finally stands up. Someone on black Twitter said it best, it's funny how even in fantasy, black people have to wait for equality.
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Mar 6, 2018 18:28
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Sinding Johansson posted:Those who can act are most obligated to? Which is funny because even the movie, along with every marvel origin, comes to that conclusion. The problems arise when you actually think about why they drew into conclusion and the history of black isolation. There's even a tv series coming out about this same premise. The correct conclusion would be that the onus isn't on wakanda, but the second they break isolation and don't right a wrong so great it's turning their own "evil" they are fully complicit. Instead BP chugs along with the system that was built on the backs of his people.
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Mar 6, 2018 18:47
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I like how its always on the onus of the would be liberators to be nice about it. Don't want to disrupt the slow genocide of their people! Let's not forget all this is in service so they can ask for wakandas help in the next one. More black bodies will die for the sins of arrogant (hyper) white men. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Mar 6, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 20:21
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They have unparalleled stealth allowing them to go anywhere and they can't even drop off donations in multiple church boxes.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:32
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In my fan edit of black panther, the final scene will be replaced by the music video God's Plan by Drake, with the full suited black panther and now living killmonger, handing out bags of cash.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:47
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Which is dumb on it's face as people are actually challenging the movie to do more than soft shoe respectability politics.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:57
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"Sheltered opinion?" What? Wakanda is fully aware of the world and what they are doing, as the world is the reason they are doing it. The movie is about their inaction, and many have a problem with their first real reaction being to assimilate instead of revolutionize like even the trailers advertised. And the only things even relatively radical were that one wanted to treat the symptoms instead of the problem, and the other felt the problem had to go by any means necessary.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:07
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The trial by combat is supposed to be where he "earns" the mantle, but he's being challenged by royals and their champions, who are only up there by favoritism just the same. Then he has to cheat and get the flower back just to stand up to Killmonger. Asgardian drama revolves around succession, so they had to have some kind of divergence, but it's just an intersectional mess.
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Mar 15, 2018 08:42
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temple posted:its amazing you know what black children should look up to. You should probably stop posting if all your going to do is race bait instead of actually responding to the point.
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Mar 15, 2018 14:15
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Woof, love the man, but you really gonna link respectability politics the poem in here? Heron is talking about keeping your head down and just living, but the movie, just like real life, shows some folks don't have the constitution to handle outright oppression. We can discuss the way he generalizes those folks another time, but you can watch Do the right thing for a summary. One side called for a revolution to save our brothers and sisters. And of course it's not easy, that's the entire point of his character and his "tattoos," which is the opposite of what the heron poem is about, talking while doing nothing. Wakanda doesn't recognize us as anything and in the end only gives lip service to the entire idea. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 14:19
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In that poem you linked Heron is claiming that anyone repping Africa so hard as to be social pariah in his eyes, isn't helping whatever cause. He thinks just living is enough, which for some is, but for more empathetic folks, it's not. There are some, called hoteps, who are negative to our own women and hold bad values but theyre such a minority within a minority, its not worth conflating them with others like my grandmothers who only wear dashikis and are just as vocal on very similar subjects. Eric shouldn't have to talk to tchalla. Eric and his father were left for dead by Wakanda. T'challa was right to be angry at his father, but he doesn't do anything different than kill their shame. He should've been laying out the welcome mat for him and helping heal him mentally, then have that conversation. But avengers 3 is this year so, no time for that. You keep trying to put this on others like T'challa had no choice. He has the power to do anything and he chose death and complacency. Also notice in that poem, heron is lamenting "black capitalism" even though white America has explicitly explained that isn't a thing, ie Tulsa's Black Wall Street. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 18:09
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And it literally does this, with the slow motion shot where Kaluuya takes in the last battle. They don't even learn anything other than bring backup.
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Mar 17, 2018 21:09
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Which "woke" leftist think he must die? T'challa isn't leftist if that's who you're referring to.
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Mar 19, 2018 01:25
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Nodosaur posted:That being said, Killmonger’s treatment of women at least strikes similar themes as Coogler’s other movies. He’s very critical of toxic masculinity. Worst part of the movie and it's really blatant. We meet nakia and they hold hands, immediately followed by Eric getting extra handsy with his lover. It was some Sunday school bullshit.
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Mar 21, 2018 15:37
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Imagine defending colonialism.
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Mar 22, 2018 02:36
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Cultural appropriation is fuzzy idea. Some things, like literally taking cultural artifacts and selling them, or stealing black music or rhythms and rebranding them for white artists, are clearly cultural appropriation, but what about African Americans wearing dashikis? Getting African tribal tattoos or using tribal decor in their homes? What about white peoples wearing dreadlocks, or Asians getting into hip hop culture? Cultural appropriation is about profiting from another culture in some way that that culture it self cannot profit from. Look at the Kardashians being fawned over for boxer braids, while Jessica Williams had to literally take one of the commanders of the us army to a beauty salon so they could understand what it takes to make black hair "acceptable." Miley cyrus was hailed as a feminist icon after twerking while black women have been labeled as exotic whores for inventing it. So african Americans wearing dashikis is ok, while white folks shouldn't because of the consequences (loss of job offers etc) some of their cohorts will give to a black person wearing them.
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Mar 22, 2018 05:23
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Lol no, iron Man literally wouldn't have been able to touch them. Only wakandans weapons, which were also made of vibranium. Pretty sure they say as much in the film.
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Mar 23, 2018 04:45
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Sir Kodiak posted:Not to take away from your point, but just as a heads-up, the person being called a "feminist icon" in that link is Gloria Steinem, not Miley Cyrus. It's the conversation, and there's more links where she is called one, Google finished my search by adding the word, I'm just including the one that has a known (white) feminist in it.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:55
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You're right. My bad.
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Mar 23, 2018 17:18
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Jedit posted:Only 33 movies in history have made a billion at the box office, I'd say it was pretty drat exceptional. What's your point? I think he's saying the actual movie does nothing different than any other marvel movie and throws out no real message. While actually exceptional movies challenge viewers in some way or other and therefore never reach that mark.
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Mar 31, 2018 16:11
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Farg posted:Like I said, anything coming back in response is baseless, and is just writhing around in its own hypocrisy Including your posts. Woof. Imagine being so fragilely tied to your choice of franchise, you'll throw racism at any criticism to stifle it.
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Apr 1, 2018 03:58
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And then blames black people for not picking up the pieces. Exceptional? Or just another Hollywood film. Check out The color purple for a better take on this theme.
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Apr 1, 2018 16:16
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gohmak posted:If you disagree then you are racist. You're wrong, but do you.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:17
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I’m saying blank man is a great film with a flawed political message but nevertheless is extremely important to black peoples world wide and will not be forgotten or dismissed overtime as another super hero schlock. If you disagree then you are racist. Hyperbole. But not really.
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Apr 1, 2018 20:08
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Umm, that the film makes killmonger Trump's idea of BLM, so a king, losing his throne rightfully to someone his family wronged in the most severe way, can be considered good even when he cheats to get it back. And then he does nothing to absolve the reason for the revolution. Tech centers in silicon valley are meaningless, especially when the movie was filmed in the worse off Atlanta. Also, they make him complicit in the continued slow genocide of black Americans. They're only dying cause they're not working hard enough is this movies stance. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 06:30
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temple posted:you are poisoning the film by using trump and blm to paint clear lines of morality. and the reason for revolution wasn't the point building tech centers or killmonger coming to wakanda. How is he gonna check a body he threw off a cliff? The king was saved by someone else(blatant interference the trial by combat was specifically designed against) then the former ruling class stole the rightful kings property, and gave it to tchalla. Even mbaku saw nothing wrong with his definitive loss. The movie is purposely written for t'challa to come out looking clean, but it can't even pull that off. The end of the movie is, we hate tradition, so throw it out and let us keep our tradition. You have done nothing but stifled conversation and none of your reasons have followed through beyond you being a marvel fan. Please better think out your responses, especially when you're trying to generalize an entire thread you obviously didn't read. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 14:25
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Those straw men are getting rekt
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Apr 2, 2018 14:57
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temple posted:the point being, the ritual was undermined by circumstance. to say t'challa cheated is just being hostile towards him for personal reasons. the rules weren't "if you get thrown off a cliff". So yes, he does cheat. Personal reasons including wanting a solid movie that doesn't sell my people respectability politics? You folks keep popping in talking about racism when i have a family slave name. I'm well aware of our history and how this movie is lacking in honoring it. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 15:18
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I'll never be able to get over the last credit sequence. After all that, we're treated to shuri making sure a former nazi weapon is comfortable within their walls. They just did a whole sequence where tchalla is fast enough to stab Eric through the receding holes in his armor, but when Eric commits suicide, tchalla just watched. This is preceded by the movie flaunting their ability to heal paralysis with entry wound sized beads. Imagine if shuri is leading a bandaged killmonger to these huts and Bucky comes out to help. You get character building and an uplifting story. Nah, Thanos is coming, no time. temple posted:Giving him the flower is a fair point. But killmonger and the border tribe didn't fight fair. So, why not criticize killmonger? bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 15:30
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