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 This is James Buchanan. He was President from March 1857- March 1861. I am going to explain to you why he is, without debate, the worst president of the United States to have ever existed. Let's start with his cabinet. The lovely, lovely Cabinet of James Buchanan  This guy was his Vice-President. His name is John C. Breckinridge. He is of course, most famous for being the god damned Secretary of War for the South. Yikes. Not a good start. Who else ya got?  This is Howell Cobb. He was Buchanan's Secretary of the Treasury. Of course he was more famously the President of the loving CSA before Jefferson Davis. Jesus Christ Buchanan. Maybe your Secretary of War was better?  Nope. John B. Floyd was a Confederate General. How about the Secretary of the Interior? Surely that guy has to be-   No. Jacob Thompson was Inspector General of the Confederacy States Army. Met with John Wilkes Booth prior to his assassination of Lincoln and instigated a number of anti-Union riots.Okay. Secretary of State has to be good right? I mean, he wasn't even concerned with domestic issues?  Secretary of State Lewis Cass invented the idea of popular sovereignty which was the direct cause of Bleeding Kansas (although to his credit he resigned after it was clear Buchanan had no idea what he was doing) On a Cabinet of 8 people half of them would go on to fight for the Confederacy, 1 would die in office (Postmaster General), 1 argued that secession was legal (Attorney General), 1 invented popular sovereignty and 1 was the Secretary of the Navy. Not the best start. Dred Scott  2 days after Buchanan was inaugurated, the Dred Scott decision came out. You know, the famous one that said black people aren't actually people therefore you can't do anything to restrict slavery. Taney's decision is bar none, the worst SCOTUS decision in history. While the Court had already decided to rule against Dred Scott, the court's majority was only planning on writing a very narrow opinion. Until Buchanan got involved. Buchanan wrote Pennsylvanian Robert Cooper Grier and arm-twisted him into supporting a broad decision that would render the Missouri Compromise unconstitutional, declare black human beings as non-citizens and prevent Congress from making any more policies about slavery in the US Territories other than "anything goes". Buchanan was delighted by the decision and hoped that now with the slavery question decided and the Republicans' platform of restricting slavery in the territories destroyed the country could move on to other more important things  The Panic of 1857  So, what is a President to do after forcing the Supreme Court to make a decision declaring that black people weren't citizens? Why cause an economic recession of course! 1,400 state banks and 5,000 businesses were shuttered in the summer of 1857. Buchanan's decisive fix for this was...do nothing and restrict the money supply (aka the exact opposite of what you're supposed to do in this situation). Utah and the Mormons   The Mormons had settled Utah a few decades earlier and were a constant annoyance in the pre-Civil War era. Brigham Young and federal officials had quarreled mightily and a Utah militia massacred a group of Arkansas settlers headed for California. Clearly a crisis was brewing. So what did Buchanan do? Well, Buchanan listened to rumor-mongers in DC that the Mormons were already in revolt against the US Government. He decided to replace Brigham Young as Utah governor with the non-Mormon Alfred Cumming. Unfortunately he forgot to, ya know, tell anyone else about this which resulted in Brigham Young and Alfred Cumming both asserting they were the Governor of Utah. He then called in the Army, Brigham Young started a guerilla operation and thus, that's how Utah went to war with the United States. Buchanan started a domestic insurrection because he forgot to send a letter. Bleeding Kansas  Another domestic crisis where Buchanan got to put his master-level intelligence and political skills to the test. Earlier I talked about popular sovereignty. The idea was, rather than have Congress decide whether a state was admitted slave or free, the citizens of that state would decide. Sounds like an okay idea right? Well, except when you don't have very good record keeping and thus don't actually know who live in the state. And making matters worse, if the pro-slavery side just happens to murder all the anti-slavery supporters, well, I guess that's the popular will right?  At the end of the Pierce Administration two dueling Kansas administrations had been set up. A free one in Topeka and a slave one in Lecompton. The Topkea one had far more people following its rule-of-law by all accounts was the more legitimate government. But James Buchanan, master politician decided to ignore all that and accept the Lecompton government as legitimate. He appointed Robert J. Walker, a staunch pro-slavery advocate from Mississippi, to be territorial governor. However, soon after Walker arrives even he agrees that slavery doesn't make sense in Kansas and started advocating Kansas be admitted as a free state. Again, Buchanan tried to railroad Kansas into becoming a slave state and even the guy he appointed to the railroading said it was bullshit. Well, the pro-slave faction in Lecompton wasn't very pleased by all this, and so held an election in 1857 that was so fraught with fraud that Governor Walker threw out the results. All the admitted states had previously sent their constitutions out to voters to be approved. But given what just happened with the election, the Lecompton government was worried about the constitution being rejected. So they just sent it into Buchanan without actually asking its citizens if they agreed with it (spoiler: they did not). Even this was too much for Buchanan so he told Kansas they have to vote on something. And vote they did. But not on the Constitution, but rather on whether Kansas would allow slavery. However, the Topeka government, not viewing the Lecompton government as legitimate, instructed everyone to instead vote a month later on the same question. Both elections, of course, gave different results. Hopefully by now it's becoming clear why popular sovereignty didn't work. Walker writes to Buchanan telling him how hosed this whole situation is and begs him not to adopt the Lecompton Constitution. But Buchanan gives no fucks and approves it and call the Topeka government "revolutionary" and insinuates they're in cahoots with the Mormons. Buchanan then literally bribes Congressmen to approve the pro-slavery constitution but the House can see what a sham the whole thing is and doesn't approve it. The main person who helped defeat the sham Constitution? Stephen Douglas Buchanan, Stephen Douglas and the 1858 Midterm  Stephen Douglas is most famous for the Lincoln-Douglas debates, which happened during Buchanan's mid-term. Douglas was a moderate Democrat, but a northern Democrat and was sick of Buchanan's Southern appeasement. Buchanan hated Stephen Douglas so much that he attempted to rig the Illinois state elections to deny Douglas the Illinois Senatorship. The only reason there was a close race between Lincoln and Douglas was because Buchanan was running a bunch of spoiler candidates and buying votes just to spite his rival. Northern and Southern Democrats were beginning to split as a party, so as a result of shenanigans like what Buchanan pulled in Illinois, the Republicans got a plurality in the House and they subsequently were able to block most of Douglas's agenda. Buchanan was a whiny baby and thus started spite vetoing bills including a bill that would have established land-grant colleges and a bill that would've given public lands to settlers who stayed on the land and farmed it. The Covode Committee  Remember how I said that Buchanan had a penchant for trying to bribe people? Yeah, eventually other people figured that out too and the House started investigating him in 1860. The committee's setup was beset by scandal from the start as pro-Buchanan Democrats accused the chairman (John Covode) of acting on a personal grudge (which was true!), but the findings of the commission were so overwhelming they soon drowned out the critics. While the committee failed to find grounds for impeachment, they did issue a report showing corruption, abuse of power and surfaced the allegations about bribery around the Lecompton Constitution (but were unable to prove it). Even the pro-Buchanan minority report agreed with the facts but argued that evidence was insufficient for any charges. Secession  At this point, I think you could very easily argue Buchanan as a really bad President. But it is his actions after Lincoln's victory that move Buchanan into the worst of all time. In October of 1860, the Commanding General of the United States Army, Winfield Scott warned Buchanan that the election of Lincoln would likely result in the secession of no less than 7 states. He recommended the Union take immediate action and station large amounts of federal troops in the South to head off any attempt at insurrection and protect federal property. Buchanan did nothing. After Lincoln's victory, and consulting with his Attorney General, Buchanan stated that states did not have the legal right to secede but that the federal government could also do nothing to stop them...in effect giving the green light to the South to start breaking away from the Union. His proposed solution to the crisis was a Constitutional amendment that would affirm slavery in slave states, the Fugitive Slave Act and popular sovereignty forever. Real brave of him. In typical Buchanan fashion, this just pissed off the North and South and the response was so limp dicked that Treasury Secretary Howell Cobb resigned. Yeah, it wasn't even pro-slavery enough for the guy who would become President of the CSA. Meanwhile, Interior Secretary Jacob Thompson (remember him) starts openly planning Mississippi's secession while still serving in Buchanan's cabinet and Secretary of War John B. Floyd gets caught sending guns to the South. Buchanan did nothing. Actually he did less than nothing, because he started having regular meetings with Jefferson Davis and telling him all his plans, who then went and leaked to all the Confederates what exactly the Federal Government was up to. Buchanan's last real act as President was attempting to surrender Fort Sumter to South Carolina in January 1861. This act of appeasement was such a betrayal that Buchanan's entire cabinet threatened to resign so he instead decided to send a re-supply mission. But he strictly forbade the Union relief force from firing on the Confederates, which force the relief ship to abort its resupply mission. Conclusion Buchanan was a corrupt, pro-slavery, petty, coward whose actions turned the Civil War from a solvable insurrection issue into the deadliest war in US history. He's a piece of poo poo and I hate him and I hope you hate him now too.
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Feb 19, 2018 20:59
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What kind of psycho doesn't have Jackson at or near the bottom.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:09
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Dumb foreigner question: Is there a reason why Truman and Reagan always place so high on these? Is it just time fading all the horrible things they said and did or have recent presidents been so bad that they look favourable in comparison? Also having a good laugh at Buchanan being at the bottom of all 3 of those columns.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:13
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Furnaceface posted:Dumb foreigner question: Is there a reason why Truman and Reagan always place so high on these? Is it just time fading all the horrible things they said and did or have recent presidents been so bad that they look favourable in comparison? It's mostly that Truman and Reagan were very good at "presidenting" rather than an assessment of the results of their terms.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:15
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5'vd and bookmarked, thanks for this!
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Feb 19, 2018 21:16
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Furnaceface posted:Dumb foreigner question: Is there a reason why Truman and Reagan always place so high on these? Is it just time fading all the horrible things they said and did or have recent presidents been so bad that they look favourable in comparison? Short answer is War President and cult followings.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:16
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Didn't Buchanan fall upwards his entire career because Jackson gave him the post of ambassador to Russia to get rid of him? From what I understand that led to a ton of other ambassador appointments he was througly mediocre at, but it convinced everyone else he was the right man for the presidency. Also helped that he was a doughface that didn't have any controversial opinions about slavery.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:24
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OK I might as well get the Hot Takes ball rolling: I would kick LBJ out of the Hall of Fame group and place him all the way down in the Did More Harm Than Good group. He did push forward a progressive social agenda but I'm sorry, with all we now know about the lies told and skullduggery involved in continuing to escalate the Vietnam War, I cannot rank him any higher. Discuss.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:43
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Reagan: More harm than good, if not irredeemable.
substitute fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 19, 2018 21:47
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Monroe, so bad axeil doesn't even rate him.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:48
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There was a good thread in either d&d or cspam where someone went through historical elections and who ran and what their stances were. It was a good thread (that I now can’t find) if you wanna know some more about presidents and the kooky people they often ran against
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Feb 19, 2018 21:52
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1) George Washington, 1789-1797 Offences:Began the precedent of celebrity presidents currently being exploited by Trump. Owned slaves. Known traitor. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 2) John Adams, 1797-1801 Offences:Weak Willed, Weak kneed, and everything they said in Hamilton Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 3) Thomas Jefferson, 1801-1809 Offences:Owned slaves, patron saint of "small government" even though he tripled the size of America. Rapist. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 4) James Madison, 1809-1817 Offences: Lost the War of 1812, and yet still gets credit for the win because England got bored. Had the capital burn down on his watch. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 5) James Monroe, 1817-1825 Offences: rear end in a top hat sold his plantation in order to get wealthy and rich to buy a bigger plantation. Dehumanizing capitalist incarnate. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 6) John Quincy Adams, 1825-1829 Offences: Aristocrat whose legacy is having a famous dad. Sound familiar, Mr. Bush? Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 7) Andrew Jackson, 1829-1837 Offences: Bloodthirsty populist known for the Trail of Tears and a wicked good party at the White House. Holds a position on the $10 to maintain constant vigil and pass judgement on minorities not spending him right. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 8) Martin Van Buren, 1837-1841 Offences: Another Aristocratic rear end in a top hat Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 9) William Henry Harrison, 1841 Offences: Forgot to wear a coat. Sentence: Swine Flu 10) John Tyler, 1841-1845 Offences: Created a Constiutional crisis by refusing to take on the title of "Acting Preseident". Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 11) James Knox Polk, 1845-1849 Offences: Annexed Texas Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 12) Zachary Taylor, 1849-1850 Offences: Who? Sentence: ??? 13) Millard Fillmore, 1850-1853 Offences: Balless coward who was instrumental in the compromise of 1850 dumping slavery onto yet another president's doorstep. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 14) Franklin Pierce, 1853-1857 Offences: Southern Democrat who saw abolition as an existential threat to America. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 15) James Buchanan, 1857-1861 (effort post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3849787&pagenumber=1#post481442189) Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 16) Abraham Lincoln, 1861-1865 Offences: Suspended Habious Corpus. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 17) Andrew Johnson, 1865-1869 Offences: A traitor among traitors he got to be president as a southerner to pretend at "unity". Was already impeached once. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 18) Ulysses S. Grant, 1869-1877 Offences: Unqualified to be president he entrusted the country to his cabinet who made new levels of graft and corruption the norm while he drank himself stupid. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 19) Rutherford Birchard Hayes, 1877-1881 Offences: Ended Reconstruction too early and erased most of the gains. Scroll down a pew posts to see how! Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 20) James Abram Garfield, 1881 Offences:gently caress him and the cat he rode in on. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 21) Chester Alan Arthur, 1881-1885 Offences: He fall down.Sentence: Pick him back up! Poor Guy. 22) Grover Cleveland, 1885-1889 Offences: Yes, a businessman president. No. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 23) Benjamin Harrison, 1889-1893 Offences: Refused to prosecute violators of voting rights.Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 24) Grover Cleveland, 1893-1897 Offences: Welcome back you power-hungry motherfucker. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 25) William McKinley, 1897-1901 Offences: Stole the name of Dinali. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 26) Theodore Roosevelt, 1901-1909 Offences: If paternalism had a face it would be Theodore Roosevelt. The All-Father of the Americas bully for him we had a splended little war. Compensated WAY too hard for his lovely health.Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 27) William Howard Taft, 1909-1913 Offences: Tried Really Hard to be T-Roose but instead just ate alot and got stuck in a tub. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Sweeny Todd. 28) Woodrow Wilson, 1913-1921 Offences: Half-Assed World War One, Half-assed his pet project the league of nations. And half his brain was mush. Kudos to his wife though! Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 30) Calvin Coolidge, 1923-1929 Offences: Stay Cool. In hell. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 31) Herbert Clark Hoover, 1929-1933 Offences: "We Could use a man like Herbert Hoover again!" said the satirical embodiment of everything wrong with America. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 32) Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1933-1945 Offences: Next time, bring a new deal to everyone. Even the not-white folk. And don't pack the court you baby.Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 33) Harry S. Truman, 1945-1953 Offences: We get it. You have a big bomb. One was enough. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 34) Dwight David Eisenhower, 1953-1961 Offences: Beware the military Industrial complex, he warns, after doing everything he can to grow it. Also overthrew some local governments because why not?Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 35) John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 1961-1963 Offences: Started Vietnam. Nuclear brinksmanship with the USSR. Finished in Merlyn Monroe.Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 36) Lyndon Baines Johnson, 1963-1969 Offences: Expanded Vietnam, but passed the VRA. Sentence: On balance, nothing. 37) Richard Milhous Nixon, 1969-1974 Offences: Extended a war so that he could run on ending it twice. Founder of the Southern Strategy. Watergate. Sentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 38) Gerald Rudolph Ford, 1974-1977 Offences: Pardoned NixonSentence: Exhumation, death by Guillotine. 39) James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr., 1977-1981 Offences: Lost to Ronald Reagan.Sentence: Having to live in a house he built 40) Ronald Wilson Reagan, 1981-1989 Offences: Iran Contra, and so much, much more we'll need another effort post...Sentence: Exhumation, Followed by the delivery of a wooden stake to where the heart should be. The only way to be sure. 41) George Herbert Walker Bush, 1989-1993 Offences: CIA director who totally oversaw Iran Contra and all of Reagan's bullshit.Sentence: Death by Guillotine. 42) William Jefferson Clinton, 1993-2001 Offences: DOMA, "Welfare Reform" Sentence: Death by Guillotine. 43) George Walker Bush, 2001-2009 Offences: Iraq War. Afghanistan War.Sentence: Death by Guillotine. 44) Barack Hussein Obama, 2009-2017 Offences: Wore a tan suit. Likes fancy mustard. Cut in line. Would drink it up with a straw. Thought he, a black man, could be president. Sentence: Death by Guillotine. 45) Donald John Trump 2017-Present Offences: A constantly accelerating mass of scandals that will eventually compound into a singularity that will end us all. Sentence: The guy's suffered enough. HootTheOwl fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 19, 2018 21:55
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axeil posted:Hall of Good, But Flawed I don't think it's fair to count his personal vices against him like that when his real problem as an administrator was assuming his subordinates were perfectly trustworthy and virtuous. He even cleaned house once he figured out how wrong that was instead of trying to deny there was a problem and/or protect the corrupt. quote:Hall of Double mediocre Polk 
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Feb 19, 2018 21:56
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haven't had the opportunity to read chernow's new biography of grant, but i've always had the impression that he was a good guy who lived in an extremely bad time that would have been difficult for any president. it is true that he was too trusting, leading to massive corruption, and an alcoholic, but i find it difficult to really dislike him.EwokEntourage posted:There was a good thread in either d&d or cspam where someone went through historical elections and who ran and what their stances were. It was a good thread (that I now can’t find) if you wanna know some more about presidents and the kooky people they often ran against this was me and i got to 1892 before the strain of the project completely overwhelmed me. farraday posted:Monroe, so bad axeil doesn't even rate him. we live in an era of bad feelings
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Feb 19, 2018 22:00
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QuoProQuid posted:haven't had the opportunity to read chernow's new biography of grant, but i've always had the impression that he was a good guy who lived in an extremely bad time that would have been difficult for any president. it is true that he was too trusting, leading to massive corruption, and an alcoholic, but i find it difficult to really dislike him. It was a commendable performance while it lasted
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Feb 19, 2018 22:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pq_3OheqzU
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Feb 19, 2018 22:13
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The Compromise of 1877 or Why Rutherford B. Hayes Is a Motherfucker Meet Rutherford B. Hayes.  No, no when he was older  There we go. Rutherford B. Hayes was the 19th President of the United States from 1887-1881. Prior to that he was a Cincinnati lawyer, Civil War hero, Congressman, and Governor of Ohio. And he was a motherfucker. The Election of 1876 - The "Primaries" Following 16 years of Republican rule (Lincoln, Johnson, Grant) and 11 years of Reconstruction America had yet another general election. Grant, beloved as he was, declined to seek a third term throwing open the gates to the Presidency. The Democrats, after not fielding a candidate against Grant's easy re-election race in 1872 nominate this nice fellow:  Samuel Tilden, the Governor of New York. Tilden was a typical loyalist Democrat in that he didn't outright call for secession, but he didn't much like Lincoln and he definitely didn't like Lincoln's strong executive branch nor did he like Reconstruction. To his credit, he did go against the New York Tammany Hall political machine and try to clean things up a bit. Tilden used his reputation as a reformer to nab himself the 1876 Democratic Nomination and considering the corruption of Grant's Administration his platform of stamping out corruption seemed a good one. Now he needed only to wait for his opponent, who would of course be James G. Blaine, the former Speaker of the House and now Senator from Maine.  Blaine was the overwhelming favorite to be nominated at the party convention and won a commanding 285 votes on the first ballot...but that was only about 37% of the vote. The other voters were split between: -Benjamin H. Bristow, Treasury Secretary -Oliver P. Morton, Senator from Indiana -Roscoe Conkling, Senator from New York -John F. Hartranft, Governor of Pennsylvania and -Rutherford B. Hayes, Governor of Ohio With no clear majority the voting continued with no real change in position until the 5th ballot, where Morton and Bristow voters began defecting to Hayes who was now in 3rd after Bristow. The 6th round saw further defections with Hayes now at 113 votes to Blaine's 308 and Bristow's 111. The final ballot saw Morton, Conkling and Hartranft's voters all jump ship after a private discussion among the reform-minded candidates decided that Hayes would be their man. While Blaine did manage to gain 43 votes, it was not enough to overcome but Hayes who was able to just barely secure a win 384 votes to 351 votes.  The nation was stunned. Rumors abounded of smoky backroom deals and compromises on the party platform. The Election of 1876 - The General The campaign was, to be blunt, a complete poo poo-show filled with mud-slinging and insults. Republicans changed "Not every Democrat was a rebel, but every rebel was a Democrat" while the Democrats alleged the Republicans were stealing everything not nailed down in the White House and selling it to the highest bidder. Hayes was described as "a third-rate nonentity whose only recommendations are that he is obnoxious to no one." Jeez. Colorado was also a complicated issue as it had just been admitted to the Union on the 1st of August. Given the closeness of the election and without time to organize a new election in the state the state's legislature (which was Republican-controlled) would select the state's electors. So 3 free electors for Hayes. Democrats' strategy was to pick up all the former CSA/slave states while also taking New York and hope for the best. This would give him 173 electoral votes out of the 369 total. Close, but not enough to win.  Meanwhile the gameplan for the Republicans was simple: win the loyal Union states. Even writing off New York as a loss this would still give Hayes 196 electoral votes and a win, albeit closer than anyone would've liked.  Of course, history is never so simple. In reality this: is what happened:  An undecided contest with 3 states outstanding. A Contested Election  Florida, Louisiana and South Carolina had what you can charitably call as electoral "issues". Less charitably it was outright voter suppression and arguably rigging. Early returns indicated that Tilden would win all three but the fraud and voter suppression was so audacious as to call the results into question. Additionally, to allow illiterate voters to vote, the states at the time would print symbols for each political party on the ballot. But in these 3 states the state printed Abraham Lincoln's picture for the Democratic ticket. In the case of Florida and Louisiana the governor (or attorney general in Florida's case) decided to appoint Republican electors with South Carolina still outstanding. Meanwhile, Oregon decides to get in on the fun. The statewide vote had Hayes win in a landslide, but the Democratic governor of the state claimed that one of Hayes' electors was ineligible as a former postmaster and thus Tilden should get the vote (and the Presidency). The two Republican electors dismissed this and reported 3 votes while the appointed Democratic elector reported 2 votes for Hayes and 1 for Tilden. This dispute raged for a while but ultimately all 3 electors were given to Hayes. Thus, the election now hung on the outcome in South Carolina. Oh boy. South Carolina. Where to start. First off, South Carolina had 101% of registered voters vote. Yes, more people voted than were registered. Very, definitely not something funny going on here. As a result, the state's appointed electors were Hayes electors as the state election board declared obvious fraud. However, the Tilden electors claimed that by vote they should be counted. Others argued they shouldn't vote for anyone, but considering that Hayes was currently president-elect by a single electoral vote, nullifying South Carolina's vote would change the election. Tensions ran hot and there were legitimate fears of a Second Civil War breaking out. Congress acted fast and passed a new law stating that the election would be decided by a 15-member commission. The Electoral Commission  The Commission was to be made up of 5 members from each house of Congress and 5 members of the Supreme Court. The House (held by the Democrats) selected 3 Democrats and 2 Republicans. The Senate, held by the GOP, did the reverse (3 Republicans and 2 Democrats). For the Supreme Court's representation 2 members were chosen from each party with those 4 to select the final member. The Justices ended up picking David Davis who was famously described as being such a complete political mystery that "no one, perhaps not even Davis himself knew which presidential candidate he preferred." The Commission's decision would ultimately end up being Davis's as the only non-aligned member. But then, just as the Commission was to begin its work, the Democratic-controlled legislature of Illinois named him Senator, thinking this would buy his support. It did not. Davis, instead of remaining on the Court, resigned immediately to take his seat, leaving only Republican justices on the bench and thus, ensuring a GOP-favorable outcome. Every single vote on the committee was 8-7 and resulted in all 20 electoral votes from Florida, Louisiana, South Carolina and Oregon given to Hayes. Democrats were furious and unable to alter the proceedings attempted to disrupt them as much as possible. The Commissions results were final, but only if both Houses of Congress consented. With their chance for electoral victory slipping away, the Democrats sought to act. Quickly the House of Representatives objected to results that were previously not in question from Vermont, forcing the Senate to overrule. 12 hours of debate followed and once the debate was done, the House then objected to results from Wisconsin. At the time the filibuster still existed in the House and without the House's consent the election would still be in question. This continued until 4 am on March 2nd when the House finally threw in the towel and the election was certified with Hayes the winner 185-184 despite losing the popular vote 51%-48%. The Compromise of 1877  But why did the House Democrats stop their objections? Well. Remember how there was a bunch of backroom wheeling and dealing when Hayes got the nomination? Hayes employed the same tactic here. In exchange for dropping their objection to the results the Republicans would: 1) Remove all US military forces from former CSA states 2) Appoint at least one Democrat to the cabinet (David M. Key of Tennessee was appointed as Postmaster General) 3) Construct a second Trans-Pacific Railroad through Texas and the South 4) Sign and pass legislation that would help industrialize the South 5) Give the South the right to deal with black citizens without northern interference (aka allow Jim Crow) Points 3 and 4 were never enacted, but Hayes did agree to points 1, 2, and 5, forever tainting his Presidency. Given the controversial way in which he was elected and his abandonment of Reconstruction his term was a rocky and short one. He never ran for re-election. And that's why Rutherford B. Hayes is a motherfucker. axeil fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 19, 2018 22:15
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farraday posted:Monroe, so bad axeil doesn't even rate him.  Sorry Monroe. Clearly he belongs in the Hall of  Munkeymon posted:
And that's why I missed Monroe! I also agree that citing alcoholism as a flaw for Grant is too harsh. His main problem really was being too trusting and that in combination with his substance problems caused all the corruption issues. QuoProQuid posted:this was me and i got to 1892 before the strain of the project completely overwhelmed me. That thread was great and you got to pretty much the end of the pre-modern presidents. Once you hit Teddy Roosevelt we'd all start voting for maximum Eugene V. Debs so I think it ran its course very well. axeil fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 19, 2018 22:23
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Wilson should have let Europe grind down to a stalemate. Instead he decided to charge in, jailed anyone who disagreed, and then set the stage for Britain and France to completely ream out the Germans. Oh, I think he also sent troops into Russia. He said some nice things about "self-determination", but he's a motherfucker and a heinous racist.
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Feb 19, 2018 22:30
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QuoProQuid posted:
Loved that thread for the alternate timeline goons created where John Adams became the official king of America and the anti-masons suddenly became the leading party and then immediatly collapsed after four years.
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Feb 19, 2018 22:34
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GreyjoyBastard posted:at absolute minimum i disagree with rating trump below buchanan... so far Apes-Ma posted:Loved that thread for the alternate timeline goons created where John Adams became the official king of America and the anti-masons suddenly became the leading party and then immediatly collapsed after four years. Yeah, I think I'll reread it to celebrate the day. edit: gently caress i forgot hayes Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 19, 2018 22:37
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Someone mentioned Harding in the Trump thread, so why does he fall last on many lists that I've seen? Like, I know his administration was corrupt as hell, but worse than James "literally let the Union fall apart" Buchanan?
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Feb 19, 2018 22:49
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Lord Hydronium posted:Someone mentioned Harding in the Trump thread, so why does he fall last on many lists that I've seen? Like, I know his administration was corrupt as hell, but worse than James "literally let the Union fall apart" Buchanan? You'll have to provide a link, as he's not last on the list provided here (which comes via the NYT, by the way).
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Feb 19, 2018 22:52
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eisenhower was a racist idiot op also good picks on johnson and teddy roosevelt given their lust for blood, and jefferson for being an actual slave rapist
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Feb 19, 2018 22:59
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Lord Hydronium posted:Someone mentioned Harding in the Trump thread, so why does he fall last on many lists that I've seen? Like, I know his administration was corrupt as hell, but worse than James "literally let the Union fall apart" Buchanan? Harding was a corruption elemental. He's pretty much as bad as you can get before you get into the "actively making things worse" territory of GWB, Buchanan, Trump, etc.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:04
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Deteriorata posted:You'll have to provide a link, as he's not last on the list provided here (which comes via the NYT, by the way). I guess my question is, how does Buchanan not run away with it every time, and how corrupt could Harding's administration have been to even rival that? axeil posted:Harding was a corruption elemental. 
Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 19, 2018 23:07
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axeil posted:
Frémont should have won.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:08
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Lord Hydronium posted:The Wikipedia article on Presidential rankings has him last in the first eight surveys on their list, for example. And I feel like I've seen a lot of articles on Harding throw in some mention of him being the worst, though I know that's not particularly helpful. The argument for someone other than Buchanan being the worst is that the Civil War was inevitable after 1856 and thus the actions of Buchanan didn't really matter and he was never found guilty of any of the corruption allegations swirling around him. I mean, I think that's an insane argument but it's the one you'd have to make.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:12
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QuoProQuid posted:haven't had the opportunity to read chernow's new biography of grant, but i've always had the impression that he was a good guy who lived in an extremely bad time that would have been difficult for any president. it is true that he was too trusting, leading to massive corruption, and an alcoholic, but i find it difficult to really dislike him. If Grant had been a one-termer he'd be in the top ten of Presidents, easily. He showed a willingness to use federal power to smack the South around and make them loving LISTEN for once. Problem is, he didn't do the same in his second term--plus, the fact that his entire cabinet was basically a rogues' gallery of thieves and corrupt assholes didn't help.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:12
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Munkeymon posted:I don't think it's fair to count his personal vices against him like that when his real problem as an administrator was assuming his subordinates were perfectly trustworthy and virtuous. He even cleaned house once he figured out how wrong that was instead of trying to deny there was a problem and/or protect the corrupt. did grant struggle with alcohol while president? iirc his drinking got bad when he was away from his family, bored and lonesome, but he didn't drink much during the war
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Feb 19, 2018 23:14
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axeil posted:Harding was a corruption elemental. He also died a couple years in, so we have no idea just how awful he'd have been. Problem is that Calvin Coolidge was probably the most laissez-faire anti-labor rear end in a top hat he could have chosen as his number two. He was a lousy governor and an even worse President, and there is no justice in the fact that he somehow escaped being President when the stock market poo poo the bed. It's helped him escape a great deal of well-deserved scorn that has been otherwise heaped on Herbert Hoover.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:15
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Wilson should have let Europe grind down to a stalemate. Instead he decided to charge in, jailed anyone who disagreed, and then set the stage for Britain and France to completely ream out the Germans. Oh, I think he also sent troops into Russia. If the US never entered the way we're looking at an insane alt-history where it's extremely likely that Lenin and Hitler died in the trenches rather than being sent back to Russia / living to found the Nazi party. I can't imagine what Europe would even look like if we just left them out to rot.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:18
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Alter Ego posted:He also died a couple years in, so we have no idea just how awful he'd have been. yeah i personally have to rank him below hoover
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Feb 19, 2018 23:19
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Alter Ego posted:He also died a couple years in, so we have no idea just how awful he'd have been. Oh that's interesting. Tell us more about Coolidge and why he sucked! I don't know very much about him.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:21
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I always feel a little sorry for Hoover. You drop him into 20 other terms and he’s... fine. Hell an improvement in some cases. But it was 1929 and he was just... inadequate for the situation. What disastrous timing.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:30
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Hoover presided over the mass deportation of Mexican-Americans (majority of which were US citizens and were born here). gently caress him.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:35
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farraday posted:I always feel a little sorry for Hoover. You drop him into 20 other terms and he’s... fine. Hell an improvement in some cases. But it was 1929 and he was just... inadequate for the situation. What disastrous timing. Put Hoover in a time of prosperity and less Gilded-Age mentality and he would have been a two-termer easily. He was known as "The Great Humanitarian" during the First World War due to his work raising money for food and supplies for Belgium and France, and in 1918 Wilson made him the head of the American Relief Administration. The guy basically built his entire political career on bailing out countries that the Central Powers had destroyed during the war. He just had no idea whatsoever how to deal with a crisis like the Depression. To be fair, no one really did. The problem was not his lack of experience, but rather his complete and total stubborn unwillingness to do anything that meant government intervention, much like Harding and Coolidge before him. It's why Roosevelt got so popular so fast--his philosophy of "DO something, if it doesn't work, do something else" was very popular among a populace that desperately needed help from any source willing to give it. Hoover's dogmatic insistence that nothing could or should be done is what, in the end, made him a lovely administrator. The times called for someone who was willing to buck this trend and Hoover wasn't it. axeil posted:Oh that's interesting. Tell us more about Coolidge and why he sucked! I don't know very much about him. Oof, I don't know if I can make an effortpost about Coolidge like you did with Buchanan. Suffice to say that Coolidge got his stripes busting unions in Massachusetts. In 1919, the Boston Police Department started making noises about unionization. When they were issued a charter by the AFL in August, the commissioner told the leaders they were insubordinate and they'd all be fired unless they disbanded the union by September 4, 1919. Obviously, the BPD held firm, and the commissioner, Edwin Curtis, suspended the union leaders. Next day? 75% of Boston's cops went on strike in response. Andrew Peters, Boston's mayor, relieved Curtis of duty in response and called up the National Guard. Coolidge's response is what made him famous (or infamous) in Republican circles. He called up MORE National Guardsmen, restored Curtis to his office, and took personal control of the Boston PD. Curtis was given the go-ahead to fire every single striking officer, and Coolidge promptly declared that a new police force should be recruited. He declared "There is no right to strike against the public safety by anyone, anywhere, any time" in response to AFL leader Samuel Gompers' protest that the unrest in Boston was entirely due to Commissioner Curtis' actions. While we can sit here all day and talk about whether police are good or bad, the fact remains that Calvin Coolidge basically instituted martial law in Boston rather than allow their cops to unionize. He can get hosed. Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 19, 2018 23:37
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Alter Ego posted:Oof, I don't know if I can make an effortpost about Coolidge like you did with Buchanan. Jesus christ what a monster. Effort post added to the OP
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Feb 20, 2018 00:04
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I rank Grant way higher and Wilson way lower for this alone. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ter-revived-it/
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Feb 20, 2018 00:06
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