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Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

If Lando flips scum it's very likely someone who was very familiar with the Samurai game shared that it was Tolly's first game.

Maybe I'm super paranoid, but knowing that this is her second game on the forums requires stalkery behavior or OOT communication.

haha i suppose i'm a stalker then, cause i remember she was pretty good. do no other people read games they're not playing in?

did lando specify second? i'll double check that.

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Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

Lando131 posted:

I'd ask if this is a joke but you seem as serious as a heart attack. Why should someone in their second game have 'actual opinions' a day 1 that's been slow as hell? This coming right after MMT starts questioning them too, now that I think about it.

Oh, I know! Tolly, what do you think of the complete and irrevocable murder of jokephase by DGK2000 and MMT?
(You don't have to answer this. For people who don't understand these things this was a joke question. You can if you want though! )

i will say it is strange to me to specify second game, i probably would have said she was new w/o being particular.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Lando131 posted:

I'd ask if this is a joke but you seem as serious as a heart attack. Why should someone in their second game have 'actual opinions' a day 1 that's been slow as hell? This coming right after MMT starts questioning them too, now that I think about it.

Oh, I know! Tolly, what do you think of the complete and irrevocable murder of jokephase by DGK2000 and MMT?
(You don't have to answer this. For people who don't understand these things this was a joke question. You can if you want though! )

It was here. And most of the talk about Samurai being Tolly's first game happened in scumdoc/deadchat, which I don't think Lando ever joined.

Yes, you can look her up in votefinder, but that seems like a supremely strange thing to do. Lando's explanations seem wishy-washy to me.

The simplest explanation is that he's communicating OOT with someone who mentioned it. As I said, I'm willing to let it slide until he flips, but if he DOES flip scum, it gives us a clue to who might be one of his scumbros.

Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

Retro Futurist posted:

Ok so maybe Iím missing something, but Tolly says they are voting Tobbs for a ~reason~ but wonít say why, and despite everything else going on AS just goes ďsureĒ and jumps on to that vote?

why do you think tolly said that?

if you're asking about aa and mmt i don't have a clear read either way. while i'm wary of her i agree that mmt was talking more about truth in conviction from aa rather than a flat out lie (i agree with that post from tobbs), but aa's reactions have been ok.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

It was here. And most of the talk about Samurai being Tolly's first game happened in scumdoc/deadchat, which I don't think Lando ever joined.

Yes, you can look her up in votefinder, but that seems like a supremely strange thing to do. Lando's explanations seem wishy-washy to me.

The simplest explanation is that he's communicating OOT with someone who mentioned it. As I said, I'm willing to let it slide until he flips, but if he DOES flip scum, it gives us a clue to who might be one of his scumbros.

hmm yeah the specificity is a bit off ##unvote for now but i'm still v interested in what tolly has to say.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


merk posted:

lol, little girl.

I don't have a pr. do you?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Tolly can't have anything to say that's damning.

I'm town, so a N0 cop claim would quickly be revealed as a terrible scum gambit as soon as I flip.

She can't have seen me do anything N0, since I have no N0 action.

She can claim that I'm playing the same way here as I did the last game (where we were scum together) but that's a meta argument and also wrong.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


Retro Futurist posted:

Ok so maybe Iím missing something, but Tolly says they are voting Tobbs for a ~reason~ but wonít say why, and despite everything else going on AS just goes ďsureĒ and jumps on to that vote?

pretty much yeah

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


Tobbs Gnawed posted:

hot take:

MMT firing out of the gate is more like her town game. AA just having been scum with her (and me) should be able to see that difference.

Gonna hold my vote though because he's got enough heat on him for now.

I'm interested to hear what he thinks of Tolly's case on me, which is that she explicitly says there isn't one.

I'm not convinced of her being town by any means, but this isn't a tell indicative of mmt's alignment

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


sentimental snail posted:

I'm not convinced of her being town by any means, but this isn't a tell indicative of mmt's alignment

It's more that "MMT is making bad cases" shouldn't be indicative of a scum alignment to AA.

Though I'll admit that's my own personal feelings on the matter. MMT pushing hard early and being moderately tunnely is associated with town MMT in my mind.

She's more quiet/cautious as scum (as are most players).

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


yep. i was recently on a scumteam with mmt and this definitely feels like her town game so far

Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Tolly can't have anything to say that's damning.

I'm town, so a N0 cop claim would quickly be revealed as a terrible scum gambit as soon as I flip.

She can't have seen me do anything N0, since I have no N0 action.

She can claim that I'm playing the same way here as I did the last game (where we were scum together) but that's a meta argument and also wrong.

i understand this perspective but its also from your point of view if you see mine.


sentimental snail posted:

pretty much yeah

do you think i had reasons to vote for tobbs? do you think i'm scum? it certainly has got everyone excited.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


I don't trust anyone that claims to have strong opinions on anyone this early without something substantial presented to the thread

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Atomic Soda posted:

i understand this perspective but its also from your point of view if you see mine.


do you think i had reasons to vote for tobbs? do you think i'm scum? it certainly has got everyone excited.

I think it doesn't look good for Tolly.

For example, last game Moat pushed MMT without really getting into any casing. His cageyness was due to him being the cop and having a result on her.

That's simply not a possibility in this case, and if she's trying to emulate that cageyness in the hopes that other players will jump on it thinking she has a result, well, that's bad.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


##unvote

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Fly me away on the wings of an angel.


Quidthulhu posted:

I don't like this post. KB hasn't actually explained why he voted MMT and my initial thought was "what's his case, exactly?" Opop trying to piggy back off of something that doesn't exist is weird.

##vote RF

Also susp of Lando, and wanting to hear from Lumpen about what his logic here is.

I've started re-reading the thread, and this is similar to where I landed so far. Except instead of voting RF because of piggy-backing, I find KB more suspect for being possibly the single person to have contributed the least so far (not quite the lowest post-count, but other people with similar posts have all said at least slightly more of substance). I understand that a piggy-back vote off of weak reasoning is probably more suspect to most mafia players around these parts, but I find KB's initial vote with weak reasoning sufficiently suspect that, combined with his lack of activity, it beats RF's suspect...ness.

##vote King Burgundy

Unrelated: this is an instance where I wouldn't know whether I can just use KB instead of their full name. Is there a place where I can see allowed pseudonyms? Also, is it important that a vote be bolded?

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


bold and format your votes the same way each time

known aliases can be viewed by going to the player's profile on votefinder.org (https://votefinder.org/player/king-burgundy), accessible via the players tab of each game.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


I personally recommend using (whoever is 11th on the player list) instead of king burgundy

merk
May 20, 2003



Quidthulhu posted:

I don't like this post. KB hasn't actually explained why he voted MMT and my initial thought was "what's his case, exactly?" Opop trying to piggy back off of something that doesn't exist is weird.

##vote RF

Also susp of Lando, and wanting to hear from Lumpen about what his logic here is.

Oh, you made the same case as me, champ. Itís a good one!

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


I would vote for rf. probably would not for kb, probably would for most others

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

In time, you will know the tragic extent of my failings...


Doctor Rope

Unrelated to solving the game but just in general: makes me happy to see such a mix of player/community experience in this game. New, old, etc. Kinda neat.

Ok back on track.

merk
May 20, 2003



The RF vote looks better when you see that KB really has no justification for that MMT vote. RF is talking out of his rear end when saying he agrees with KB.

merk
May 20, 2003



King Burgundy posted:

Don't think AA is scum.

Also, ##vote MMT

This is all KB says.

merk
May 20, 2003



sentimental snail posted:

I would vote for rf. probably would not for kb, probably would for most others

Why?
Why not?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!


Sweet jesus there's been a lot going on.

I'm side-eyeing that Dancer vote but he's so new it's probably just newbie jitters.

I'm surprised so many people are calling out MMT for her town game so far cause she's looking more like absent scum to me right now, similar to the last game we played together where she was a badlady who came in with solid posting in large chunks when she needed to. I'm not CONVINCED of it yet because weekend, but I don't think "MMT is totally town" is where I would put her on my list yet.

Is Tully new? I'm losing track of who's played how many games. I actually am more suspicious of people who are hook line & sinker going "yep I agree with Tully" on a ~*~mystery case~*~ that, frankly, holds zero water for me even if he is dancing around night action results.

Other than that I...don't have a lot of strong opinions. RF is looking best in terms of faking content, so my vote's gonna stay on him.

Lando131
Jul 27, 2006

This is one way to find scum...

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

If Lando flips scum it's very likely someone who was very familiar with the Samurai game shared that it was Tolly's first game.

Maybe I'm super paranoid, but knowing that this is her second game on the forums requires stalkery behavior or OOT communication.

You are super paranoid and to be honest this line of thought is starting to get under my skin. I've been reading Mafia games on SA for the last 3 months or so, including at work on breaks, after having taken something like a 7 year hiatus from doing so. I checked on votefinder for that. Hint: I'm considered a spectator instead of a player in that first game because I had to sub out.

Simply put, you should consider not questioning people's knowledge when they give you actual evidence, especially a new player. Especially an active new player who has no intention of lurking, because if you make the game unfun to play they might not play anymore. I don't even care if you want to vote me, but this line of reasoning stinks.

If I've learned one thing I should try to leave people's names out of it when I think someone else is making a stupid play, but being called out for knowing what I actually know because I've been following this community and wanted to be a part of it is some real poo poo. It's especially stupid because there's literally no way I can refute it.

I guess let this be a warning to future lurkers turn players: Make sure to comment in threads postgame or the general mafia discussion or knowing who some people are will be suspect. Or just keep your mouth shut and lurk. But I'd rather

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Fly me away on the wings of an angel.


Quidthulhu posted:

I'm side-eyeing that Dancer vote but he's so new it's probably just newbie jitters.

Why? Legit question; is it weird to see KB's behaviour as suspect? I am acknowledging that RF is also suspect, and if they lurked more I would vote them instead of KB. But KB's "let's drop a vote on a rando for no reason then gtfo" absolutely seems like potentially scummy.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!


Dancer posted:

Why? Legit question; is it weird to see KB's behaviour as suspect? I am acknowledging that RF is also suspect, and if they lurked more I would vote them instead of KB. But KB's "let's drop a vote on a rando for no reason then gtfo" absolutely seems like potentially scummy.

Your case is not bad. Spending time in a post going "I totally agree that so and so is hella suspicious BUT ACTUALLY LOOK OVER HERE" is the part that's pinging me. But as I said, I think it's probably more newbieness than actual distraction techniques.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!


Atomic Soda posted:

why do you think tolly said that?

Because thatís what they said?

merk posted:

The RF vote looks better when you see that KB really has no justification for that MMT vote. RF is talking out of his rear end when saying he agrees with KB.

I was in the middle of reading the thread and was already planning on voting mmt when I saw

King Burgundy posted:

Don't think AA is scum.

Also, ##vote MMT

That mirrored my own thoughts, as I felt AA was town and MMT was pushin a false narrative, so I agreed with both ideas he was presenting. I could have fleshed it out better but thatís why I tried to give some context in my own post and not just go ďsameĒ

merk
May 20, 2003



Is Quidthulu the new Quidnose?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!


merk posted:

Is Quidthulu the new Quidnose?

Yes, I am.

RF: Since you're here and now working on moving us towards discussing Tully, can I ask you to directly respond to people's case against you? You responded to my initial point by saying your case was informed by a lot of back and forth discussion regarding MMT at the time. Can you go more into what you were thinking at the time?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!


Oh I guess RF kinda did explain already. Anything else you'd like to add, then?

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


merk posted:

Why?
Why not?

rf willfully tossed out a vote without reading to see what he was agreeing with, or even checking to see if he actually agreed with something.

I don't fault kb or anyone for not participating much or not putting out content on a day one weekend with 90% fluff. I'm not willing to vote him when that's the entire case.

Lando131 posted:

You are super paranoid and to be honest this line of thought is starting to get under my skin. I've been reading Mafia games on SA for the last 3 months or so, including at work on breaks, after having taken something like a 7 year hiatus from doing so. I checked on votefinder for that. Hint: I'm considered a spectator instead of a player in that first game because I had to sub out.

Simply put, you should consider not questioning people's knowledge when they give you actual evidence, especially a new player. Especially an active new player who has no intention of lurking, because if you make the game unfun to play they might not play anymore. I don't even care if you want to vote me, but this line of reasoning stinks.

If I've learned one thing I should try to leave people's names out of it when I think someone else is making a stupid play, but being called out for knowing what I actually know because I've been following this community and wanted to be a part of it is some real poo poo. It's especially stupid because there's literally no way I can refute it.

I guess let this be a warning to future lurkers turn players: Make sure to comment in threads postgame or the general mafia discussion or knowing who some people are will be suspect. Or just keep your mouth shut and lurk. But I'd rather

I don't understand what's going on in most of this post. but I feel like the narrative being stuck on knowing or not knowing it's her second game is something that scum are totally content with, if not driving themselves.

it's all white noise detracting from a few things that should be looked at. here's one ##vote rf

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!


Quidthulhu posted:

Oh I guess RF kinda did explain already. Anything else you'd like to add, then?

Not really, the cases against me are all fairly vague and centred on the same basic points that I feel Iíve addressed in full.

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Fly me away on the wings of an angel.


Quidthulhu posted:

Your case is not bad. Spending time in a post going "I totally agree that so and so is hella suspicious BUT ACTUALLY LOOK OVER HERE" is the part that's pinging me. But as I said, I think it's probably more newbieness than actual distraction techniques.

A'ight gotcha, I see what you mean. For whatever my saying this might be worth: I absolutely did not want to take attention from studying RF. I would ever be willing to vote for them if the deadline is nearing. I do think KB also might deserve more attention of some sort (with the understanding that there is not a lot of content you could look at).

But I guess we can change that. Hey KB, if you're reading this, please try to present a better case, and/or vote for someone else.

merk
May 20, 2003



Retro Futurist posted:

Not really, the cases against me are all fairly vague and centred on the same basic points that I feel Iíve addressed in full.

You might want to do some strong casework, friend. The lynch is bubbling up here.

Lando131
Jul 27, 2006

This is one way to find scum...

sentimental snail posted:

I don't understand what's going on in most of this post. but I feel like the narrative being stuck on knowing or not knowing it's her second game is something that scum are totally content with, if not driving themselves.

it's all white noise detracting from a few things that should be looked at. here's one ##vote rf

I'm annoyed that the argument is even being pressed, and even more annoyed that following Mafia games on SA is now somehow considered 'stalkery behavior'. What's more likely, that I'm stalking Tolly, or that I've been reading Mafia threads for entertainment.

I'm getting annoyed enough that I'm now starting to wonder if that's the entire point of this line of thinking, to piss me off and distract me.

I'm almost ready to drop a vote on Tobbs for it, except I'm already voting Tolly for her thus far unexplained vote on him.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!


I think it's just behavior that many of us have not done / didn't have the opportunity to do or whatever, so it's coming off as "odd." That doesn't necessarily mean "scum" though and we forget that a lot around here

I'm sorry it's irritating you, Lando, and I have been there. I would encourage you to step back until you're not annoyed any more and come at stuff with fresh eyes again. Like I said, I believe you are trying in earnest and got caught up in what is essentially a dumb "gotcha," and you can counteract that by ignoring it and doing some good case work. You can do it!

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

In time, you will know the tragic extent of my failings...


Doctor Rope

sentimental snail posted:

I don't understand what's going on in most of this post. but I feel like the narrative being stuck on knowing or not knowing it's her second game is something that scum are totally content with, if not driving themselves.

If you feel scum are driving this narrative why not pursue it further?

I think it has derailed a portion of the thread and has created a big question for this first day.

I've already voiced my concern regarding that line of casing and I think it is something cannot be proved without flips or results.

##unvote

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Lando131 posted:

Hi this is my second game too. My first was 4 years ago. Im just slightly more informed because ive been reading Mafia games for fun again for the last few months.

Lando131 posted:

I mentioned this in one of my earlier replies but I've read most of the Mafia games recently. The main exception is Shine because I didn't want to deal with reading multiple threads for a single game.

Lando131 posted:

That's fair because she said she was new and this is the second game I've seen her in. I assumed this was her second game on SA but I suppose she could have played another one I wasn't aware of. That said she came out firing in Westworld. The core of my point to DKG was that it seemed early in the game to get suspicious on the ground of no content, with a bit of extra skepticism because it targeted a relatively new player.

I'm pretty sure everything I've said is true but I guess my apologies to Tolly if I've misrepresented her.

Lando131 posted:

You are super paranoid and to be honest this line of thought is starting to get under my skin. I've been reading Mafia games on SA for the last 3 months or so, including at work on breaks, after having taken something like a 7 year hiatus from doing so. I checked on votefinder for that. Hint: I'm considered a spectator instead of a player in that first game because I had to sub out.

Simply put, you should consider not questioning people's knowledge when they give you actual evidence, especially a new player. Especially an active new player who has no intention of lurking, because if you make the game unfun to play they might not play anymore. I don't even care if you want to vote me, but this line of reasoning stinks.

If I've learned one thing I should try to leave people's names out of it when I think someone else is making a stupid play, but being called out for knowing what I actually know because I've been following this community and wanted to be a part of it is some real poo poo. It's especially stupid because there's literally no way I can refute it.

I guess let this be a warning to future lurkers turn players: Make sure to comment in threads postgame or the general mafia discussion or knowing who some people are will be suspect. Or just keep your mouth shut and lurk. But I'd rather

So, what is it? Is it because you've been reading all the games recently? Did you just assume it was her second game? Did you check votefinder?

I had already backed off and wasn't voting you, so this really seems like a disproportionate response. I literally said, multiple times, that if you flip scum I'll use that info to find your scumbros. If you're town it shouldn't matter at all.

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Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

In time, you will know the tragic extent of my failings...


Doctor Rope

I think it's strange that snail phrased that the way they did to end up with a vote on RF

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