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Lando131
Jul 27, 2006

This is one way to find scum...

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

So, what is it? Is it because you've been reading all the games recently? Did you just assume it was her second game? Did you check votefinder?

I had already backed off and wasn't voting you, so this really seems like a disproportionate response. I literally said, multiple times, that if you flip scum I'll use that info to find your scumbros. If you're town it shouldn't matter at all.

I recognized Tolly as a new face when I read Wandering Samurai Mafia, and assumed this was her second game from that. I only checked votefinder to read my old game and see how long it had actually been; my other game was in 2011.

Like I said, this isn't about votes, it's about the narrative. Let me just be perfectly blunt, what got me upset is this:

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

If Lando flips scum it's very likely someone who was very familiar with the Samurai game shared that it was Tolly's first game.

Maybe I'm super paranoid, but knowing that this is her second game on the forums requires stalkery behavior or OOT communication.

No one told me anything about Tolly and I know this to be true, which means you effectively just called me a stalker and that is a personal attack that hits close to home.
I think I'm just especially emotional today but I really don't appreciate that. It's beyond the scope of a fun game.

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Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Tobbs, indirectly what youíve stated is that you think there is a mafia team of Lando, Atomic Soda and myself. Is that a set of reads you stand by?

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Also I guess Iíll spell this out: A lot of people are probably going to read the wiki and a few games before they play. Itís not weird that anybody would know stuff from the game immediately before this one.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Tolly Totes posted:

Tobbs, indirectly what you’ve stated is that you think there is a mafia team of Lando, Atomic Soda and myself. Is that a set of reads you stand by?

I said if Lando is scum, he's scum with someone who has seen our discord chats.

That includes a number of players in this game, and is useful info.

You're putting words in my mouth here. I've neither explicitly said nor implied AS is on a team with either of you. I think your reasonless vote "for reasons" is scummy, and AS buying it was scummy (though she backed off).

As for Lando and you being on a team, that would require some bussing to be happening. I won't rule it out, but it's not something strong that needs pushing either.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Well that's dumb because I'm very much town.



In case it's not blindingly obvious that this is a scummy push.

What is the interpretation of quoting me and then Atomic Soda voting you and then saying ďthis is a scummy push.Ē if youíre not saying that we are both mafia?

merk
May 20, 2003



This tolly stuff is gotcha scum hunting, boys and girls.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


If youíre saying Lando is with somebody who has seen our discord chats then youíre saying heís scum with me, you, mmt or AA. Youíve said MMT is town and youíre clearly not saying itís you, so the pointer is to me or AA right?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Tolly Totes posted:

What is the interpretation of quoting me and then Atomic Soda voting you and then saying “this is a scummy push.” if you’re not saying that we are both mafia?

Voting a player without any reason and calling it serious is scummy.

Going along with it is also scummy.

Am I voting either of you? No. But in the tapestry of making an alignment call on either of you, those are dark squares.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Voting a player without any reason and calling it serious is scummy.

Going along with it is also scummy.

Am I voting either of you? No. But in the tapestry of making an alignment call on either of you, those are dark squares.

I was interpreting ďpushĒ as you saying weíre working together to vote you.

Lando131
Jul 27, 2006

This is one way to find scum...

You don't have to be scum to look scummy. If that was the case town would never get mislynched. For even worse examples look at some of the terrible, terrible fake claims town players have made in the past. Disgustingly scummy, and yet they were town.

The whole crux of the game and the problem is we don't know if a scummy play is made because someone is scum or because they're being stupid. AS vote was opportunistic and I'm inclined to agree that voting someone because you want to see someone else's vote on them is scummy as hell. In fact I did the exact opposite and voted you for it, Tolly, because you're the one who could actually produce said case.

I think I'm starting to calm down now.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Tolly Totes posted:

If you’re saying Lando is with somebody who has seen our discord chats then you’re saying he’s scum with me, you, mmt or AA. You’ve said MMT is town and you’re clearly not saying it’s you, so the pointer is to me or AA right?

Nope.

There were other players in that game with access to the dead doc/scum doc. It's not a huge list, but it includes more than just us.

If Lando flips scum, that list is useful, because Lando's scum flip makes it very likely he was communicating OOT with someone on that list.

If you're curious, the discord channels are still up. You can see who joined them.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Tolly Totes posted:

I was interpreting “push” as you saying we’re working together to vote you.

AS realized it was a bad push and backed off.

Town players can certainly be scummy, but hopping on a train with a bad vote is a good way to get caught as scum.

Your vote on me is bad. Flerp's is hopefully a joke (or he's scum and I get shot N1).

Are you gonna continue to act like you have some result on me, or are you going to admit that your vote on me isn't backed up by anything meaningful?

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


I feel old, discord? Back in my day we used Google wave.

Iím trying to catch up right now, but Iíve got a bit confusion about how weíve been going around in circles

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Hi folks! I'm home from work and catching up now, and then I have some cases to make / stuff to share.

merk
May 20, 2003



Back in my day we walked fifteen miles uphill both ways to get to the scum rendezvous chat on Google Buzz.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

There is no truth beyond magic.

Plaster Town Cop

Lando131 posted:

I checked on votefinder for that.
Pardon me for my impertinence, but this was literally all you needed to say, if it's true. All your other indignant posting has made you look worse, and if you're Town, please cut it out and talk about who's Scum rather than moaning about yourself.

If Tolly flips Scum now then you're in trouble, right or wrong, no matter what excuses you give. So if you're Town, demonstrate it by Scumhunting.

merk
May 20, 2003



Dead Cow, what do you think of RF (now nicknamed Radio Flyer)?

merk
May 20, 2003



Pal Lumpen, what say you of Radio Flyer?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I'm kind of cooling on AA, to be honest.

Lando131
Jul 27, 2006

This is one way to find scum...

Lumpen posted:

Pardon me for my impertinence, but this was literally all you needed to say, if it's true. All your other indignant posting has made you look worse, and if you're Town, please cut it out and talk about who's Scum rather than moaning about yourself.

If Tolly flips Scum now then you're in trouble, right or wrong, no matter what excuses you give. So if you're Town, demonstrate it by Scumhunting.

Congratulations you managed to conclude exactly opposite of what I'm saying, meanwhile I'm voting Tolly for a bad vote on Tobbs.
Amazing deductive reasoning.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Hah that was supposed to be the first line of a much longer post and I accidentally hit "submit"

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

There is no truth beyond magic.

Plaster Town Cop

merk posted:

Pal Lumpen, what say you of Radio Flyer?
I agree with you, he is suspicious.

merk
May 20, 2003



How long into day 1 can it go before we assume youíre scum for not posting a LumpenList, pal Lumpatron?

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

There is no truth beyond magic.

Plaster Town Cop

merk posted:

How long into day 1 can it go before we assume youíre scum for not posting a LumpenList, pal Lumpatron?
I generally wait until Page 16, although I was just thinking about it a bit ago while I was vacuuming.
I'd currently put Lumpen, merk, MMT in Totally Town,
DGK, Lando, Tobbs in Tentatively Trustable
everyone else somewhere up or down here
50, Hal, RF in Somewhat Suspicious
AA & Tolly in Supposably Scum

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


But yeah, nothing about AA's reaction to my case seemed out of the ordinary to how I'd expect town to react. D1 case, etc. etc.

King Burgundy posted:

Don't think AA is scum.

Also, ##vote MMT

I'm seriously hoping that KB's lack of anything to say is the result of it being the weekend, and if he's town I would like to humbly request that he put effort into this game.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

Lando131 posted:

I'm annoyed that the argument is even being pressed, and even more annoyed that following Mafia games on SA is now somehow considered 'stalkery behavior'. What's more likely, that I'm stalking Tolly, or that I've been reading Mafia threads for entertainment.

I'm getting annoyed enough that I'm now starting to wonder if that's the entire point of this line of thinking, to piss me off and distract me.

I'm almost ready to drop a vote on Tobbs for it, except I'm already voting Tolly for her thus far unexplained vote on him.

So yeah I'm cool with your explanation of how you know.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

merk posted:

How long into day 1 can it go before we assume youíre scum for not posting a LumpenList, pal Lumpatron?

Could be scum still, his formatting was shite.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

Um... is RF Opoponax?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


DGK2000 posted:

Um... RF is Opoponax.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!


Hey deeg

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Murmur Twin posted:

But yeah, nothing about AA's reaction to my case seemed out of the ordinary to how I'd expect town to react. D1 case, etc. etc.


I'm seriously hoping that KB's lack of anything to say is the result of it being the weekend, and if he's town I would like to humbly request that he put effort into this game.

Eh, establishing a new meta. I've already said what I'm doing this game. Its likely I'll post more on Monday when sitting at a computer, but still won't be a ton.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Btw current gut reads have shifted to Quid and AS.

##vote Quid

merk
May 20, 2003



King Burgundy posted:

Btw current gut reads have shifted to Quid and AS.

##vote Quid

Thanks for the help, bud!

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


King Burgundy posted:

Btw current gut reads have shifted to Quid and AS.

##vote Quid

merk posted:

Thanks for the help, bud!

Haha as much as I want to at KB's new meta, his last post actually makes me feel stronger about him.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Quidthulhu posted:

Is Tully new? I'm losing track of who's played how many games. I actually am more suspicious of people who are hook line & sinker going "yep I agree with Tully" on a ~*~mystery case~*~ that, frankly, holds zero water for me even if he is dancing around night action results.

This post feels extremely suspicious to me. How could Quid possibly have not picked up through reading the thread that this is Tolly's second game? Tobbs' whole case on Lando centers around that information and lots of people have talked about it.

Quid is actually my strongest suspect at the moment. His posts don't seem sincere to me in a way that's kind of tough for me to verbalize. Like I see town Quidnose as more of a bulldog who actively looks for scummy stuff and then grills his suspects. Quid in this game is more kind of jumping around with reasonably "safe" opinions and seems to actively be attempting to not make waves.

Quidthulhu posted:

Sweet jesus there's been a lot going on.

....

Other than that I...don't have a lot of strong opinions. RF is looking best in terms of faking content, so my vote's gonna stay on him.

I just don't believe town Quid would ever say this. He'd case people and get some strong opinions. Normally, this is the part where I'd vote him and then we'd debate etc etc etc... but instead let's ##open fire at Quidnose

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Lol are you serious

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


b-minus1 posted:

Lol are you serious

Yup! (not really sure what the etiquette is re: posting while we wait for DBD )

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


To be clear I have no result or role related reason for my vote on Tobbs, itís all in thread stuff and Iíll explain when I get home.

For now ##unvote

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010



Votecount for Day 1

Anomalous Amalgam (3): DGK2000, Gridlocked, Murmur Twin, b-minus1, merk, DGK2000, merk
Retro Futurist (3): Quidthulhu, merk, sentimental snail
Quidthulhu (2): Dead Cow, King Burgundy
Tolly Totes (2): Tobbs Gnawed, Lando131, Lumpen, Lando131, Lumpen, Lumpen, Lando131, Lando131, Tobbs Gnawed, Lando131
Tobbs Gnawed (1): flerp, Anomalous Amalgam, Tolly Totes, Anomalous Amalgam, Atomic Soda, Atomic Soda, Tolly Totes
King Burgundy (1): Lando131, Lando131, Murmur Twin, Murmur Twin, Dancer
DGK2000 (1): HiipFire
Lando131 (1): merk, merk, DGK2000, Tobbs Gnawed, Tobbs Gnawed
Murmur Twin (1): sentimental snail, sentimental snail, Anomalous Amalgam, King Burgundy, Retro Futurist, Anomalous Amalgam, King Burgundy
merk (0): Tobbs Gnawed, Tobbs Gnawed, HiipFire, HiipFire
Lumpen (0): Anomalous Amalgam, Anomalous Amalgam, sentimental snail, Lando131, Lando131, sentimental snail
HiipFire (0): Dancer, Dancer
sentimental snail (0): Tobbs Gnawed, Tobbs Gnawed
b-minus1 (0): King Burgundy, King Burgundy
Dancer (0): Dancer, Dancer

Not Voting (7): 50 pounds of bread, Anomalous Amalgam, Atomic Soda, Hal Incandenza, Mr. F!, Tobbs Gnawed, Tolly Totes

With 22 alive, it's 12 votes to execute. The current deadline is February 27th, 2018 at 6:30 p.m. EST -- that's in about 2 days, 2 hours.

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Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

Skengman


Yeah, no talking after any day action of any sort.

Posting result in a sec!

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