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  • Locked thread
50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



b-minus1 posted:

really starting to get suspicious of 50. i don't believe his "mystery injection" claim. calling bullshit on that. he's pulled similar gambit poo poo before in previous games and i fell for it.

If that's the concern then maybe wait to see if someone else gets mystery injected.

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Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Hi, so my vote on Tobbs was because he had at the very beginning of the game started jumping around from vote to vote, which I thought could be mafia behaviour. It wasn't enough to make a case on to get others to vote, and I didn't want to tip my hand early since I was waiting to see how his behaviour would progress more than I wanted to get anything started on him for like 3 three votes.. And then I wanted to press the issue of the vote to see how he would react to me when I had a vote on him. My goal was to see if he actually believed his votes or was just trying to get other people on them. I got the interactions I needed.

I was not intending to make it seem like I had some kind of claim, but I guess it's another set of interactions to read later.

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Tell me in your own words and casing why. That seems loaded with no explanation. You thin k dgk was bussing me??? Because it didn't feel like that.

Merk said everything I would have. You come across as disingenuous.

DGK on the other hand isn't scummy because of what he said about you, he is scummy because of his lando assessment. Unlike Tobbs however, he doesn't have the benefit of a genuine discussion that I was a part of.

You and DGK could be both scum bussing, one scum one town, or two town. However my assessment of both of you is independent of one another. The pressure DGK put on you could easily have been a scum bussing pressure or a genuine vote.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


I'm going to look back at the Tobbs stuff later, but I've got no immediate case there. His case on Lando is hella bad though

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



Tolly Totes posted:

I'm going to look back at the Tobbs stuff later, but I've got no immediate case there. His case on Lando is hella bad though

Hella bad.

Lando131
Jul 27, 2006

This is one way to find scum...

I went ahead and skimmed Tobbs votes to see what you were getting at, and I don't think he was throwing his vote around at all after jokephase. Sure, he made 3 jokevotes before getting serious but I don't see that as a case to vote him.

But you do seem to have an actual reason for putting that vote down so I'll go ahead and ##unvote. Thank you for coming back and giving your reasons.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Lando131 posted:

I went ahead and skimmed Tobbs votes to see what you were getting at, and I don't think he was throwing his vote around at all after jokephase. Sure, he made 3 jokevotes before getting serious but I don't see that as a case to vote him.

Yes, this is why I specifically told you I don't have a case on him

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


I thought it might develop in that direction, but it didn't, which is why I didn't say "I think he might be throwing his vote around" because he would then obviously immediately be wary of that. I made sure he knew the vote was real because I thought it would give me stuff to read, which it has. I don't think he's scum right now, and wouldn't vote him today.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Deadbeat Dad posted:

Again, and I can't clear this up any easier than this: Humans or hosts in the ~real life show~ have zero to do with your actual actual alignment in the game.

A Human, flavorwise in this game, is scum or 3P.

A Host, flavorwise in this game, is town.

Other speculations regarding receiving said results or anything like that is fair play to openly discuss and think about, but just making it clear about hosts/humans. Purely a substitute for town and scum/3P to fit in with the flavor of the game.

So with this clarification in mind MMT would you be willing to admit if the power you used works only on either Human (scum) or Host (town)?

It's ok if you don't want to

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Nope.

There were other players in that game with access to the dead doc/scum doc. It's not a huge list, but it includes more than just us.

If Lando flips scum, that list is useful, because Lando's scum flip makes it very likely he was communicating OOT with someone on that list.

If you're curious, the discord channels are still up. You can see who joined them.

Right so this is the post where I wanted to make sure I was home for. I was pretty sure that of all the people in the scum discord, only the four i mentioned were also in this game.

I checked and here's the list of people in the dead doc:

Me, You, AA, MMT, Max, Dick Bastardly, Xad and CCKeane. Of those it's only the first four in this game. If you look at the observer doc, the only other relevant person is Merk, butttt the observer doc only mentions it being my first game a single time, and it was way before Merk joined the chat, and even when he was in the chat he only talked briefly about the night actions before fading into the background. Merk in this very thread said he didn't even know it was my first game during that game. I wouldn't count Merk toward that list.

The point is that if you're saying Lando took info from a mafia partner and then spouted it in the thread it's not a vague claim, it's a specific claim with a limited number of people who could be that mafia partner. It's me, you, MMT, or an outside chance of it being Merk. And since you're saying you think Lando is mafia specifically because he was fed information then that means you believe he is scum with one of those 5 players. And since you're not talking about yourself and you've said MMT is town, it's only me or AA or Merk.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


I don't know MMT is town, I just strongly believe she is.

And if Lando dies and flips town, it's all irrelevant anyways. At first I thought he was fumbling with his response and therefore behaving like caught scum, but he was pretty vehement in his self-defense which seems like a town response (especially for newer/inexperienced players).

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Right, and it really can't be understated that the whole original idea that somebody hearing something in their personal chat and then immediately posting it in the thread without thinking about it is more likely than a novice player who said he reads other games reading another game was ridiculous in the first place.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Tolly Totes posted:

Also, and this can't be understated, the whole original idea that somebody hearing something in their personal chat and then immediately posting it in the thread without thinking about it is more likely than a novice player who said he reads other games reading another game was ridiculous in the first place.

Scum have been caught by sharing info that could only be obtained by having inside information.

That may or may not be what's happening here, but it's something I keep in mind.

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



Tolly Totes posted:

Right, and it really can't be understated that the whole original idea that somebody hearing something in their personal chat and then immediately posting it in the thread without thinking about it is more likely than a novice player who said he reads other games reading another game was ridiculous in the first place.

See this is what I don't buy. I read mafia games for fun, why wouldn't other people?

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


All this argument over the content ofnthe discord makes me think I don't want to join the discord.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


50 pounds of bread posted:

See this is what I don't buy. I read mafia games for fun, why wouldn't other people?

Most people don't even read the threads they're posting in?

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Scum have been caught by sharing info that could only be obtained by having inside information.


I don't doubt it, but the key here is that it's information you could only obtain that way, instead of reading the most recent mafia game, or looking at the vote site. This whole thing is silly!

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



The accusation here is that someone who is informed on info from their scum buddies would come to the thread, and post their knowledge of it. Why would that ever happen?

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Most people don't even read the threads they're posting in?

I really actually do want to drop this because I think it's unproductive but maybe don't assume that you know how most people behave?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Tolly Totes posted:

I really actually do want to drop this because I think it's unproductive but maybe don't assume that you know how most people behave?

50% tongue-in-cheek
50% hard truth
0% assumption

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


50 pounds of bread posted:

The accusation here is that someone who is informed on info from their scum buddies would come to the thread, and post their knowledge of it. Why would that ever happen?

It happens accidentally. Scum can't keep everything straight, whether it's their opinions, or what info they should or should not have. It's a major accusation that gets thrown at many potential scumbos, and I think it's a good way to find scum.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Gridlocked posted:

So with this clarification in mind MMT would you be willing to admit if the power you used works only on either Human (scum) or Host (town)?

It's ok if you don't want to

Keep in mind that I'm trying to be careful not to quote anything from my role PM.

I could shoot someone during the day, and while I could target anyone, my bullets don't kill hosts, but can kill humans. The Occam's Razor assumption, at least to me, is that it's as straightforward as "if I target town they live, if I target scum they die".

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


I mean it can be hard to keep track of everything but like, not posting something somebody said in confidence to you like earlier that day is pretty easy.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Anyway

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



I have never seen the particular scumslip you are talking about and I have been playing mafia on SA for 11 years.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


This just feels cruel at this point.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015


Doctor Rope

DGK2000 posted:

I read everything in Ben Steins voice, and if it seems like bullshit it probably is.

DGK2000 posted:

How well do you know Lumpen? I made 2ish posts that were on you. So you're basically screaming "IM NOT SCUM HE'S WRONG!"

I just want to call this out because I think it looks bad from the perspective of forcing tone onto players.

I think it's something scum do to intentionally draw attention to players, and I believe that dgk has made a minor slip in their own explanation of their behavior and play.

If you read everything in ben stein's voice to evaluate it, how then did you infer any tone from me?

I didn't do any CAPS shouting, but look how quickly you tried to make me look like that was what I was doing.

I've had meltdowns, and even walked away from the forums for month's following ~bad~ games, but this is not what was happening at all. Not now, and not then, and I think DGK looks bad for it.

Putting a pin in this because as the game plays out, I think I will be taking a closer look at DGK.

----

I've eased on MMT without how the Vig on Quid played out, but it raises more questions me regarding both of these players, and something that I'll also need to read more info.

Hot takes before I do some more casing:

RF looks bad.
Tobbs is looking worse by the second.
Still a lot of lurking, but with a full IRL day out, it's probably not that pressing.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


Let's focus our energy more positively!

Twin where are you at right now?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


50 pounds of bread posted:

I have never seen the particular scumslip you are talking about and I have been playing mafia on SA for 11 years.

GHGD in one of the shine games was a scum boss, shared info he shouldn't have had, and got dunked.

KhediveRex said he knew I was town, and put me on a list of people he thought were scum. I called him out on it. He was scum and ended up winning that game.

I apparently don't even remember most of the games I've played, but scumslips happen.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015


Doctor Rope

Murmur Twin posted:

Keep in mind that I'm trying to be careful not to quote anything from my role PM.

I could shoot someone during the day, and while I could target anyone, my bullets don't kill hosts, but can kill humans. The Occam's Razor assumption, at least to me, is that it's as straightforward as "if I target town they live, if I target scum they die".


This just sounds... really weird to me.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


sentimental snail posted:

I would vote for rf. probably would not for kb, probably would for most others

Why wouldn't you vote for KB?

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015


Doctor Rope

Tolly Totes posted:

Let's focus our energy more positively!

Twin where are you at right now?

All for this. Too many tangents.

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



Tobbs Gnawed posted:

GHGD in one of the shine games was a scum boss, shared info he shouldn't have had, and got dunked.

KhediveRex said he knew I was town, and put me on a list of people he thought were scum. I called him out on it. He was scum and ended up winning that game.

I apparently don't even remember most of the games I've played, but scumslips happen.

Sure, scumslips happen, but i've never seen a scumslip about another game.

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



Murmur Twin posted:

Why wouldn't you vote for KB?

Respond to me. I'm in a turboposting kind of mood.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Hot takes before I do some more casing:

RF looks bad.
Tobbs is looking worse by the second.
Still a lot of lurking, but with a full IRL day out, it's probably not that pressing.

TBH I'm annoyed that stuff I think I've already fully explained keeps getting brought up, but I think it's scummier to ignore people than it is to respond.

But please, AA, if youre going to throw shade at me so casually, at least have something with which to back it up.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


It's really more the idea that this information is sacred information in the first place. Like the idea that somebody would say something they shouldn't is possible, but where you've lost me is that the exclusive piece of info that you're trying to point out is actually publicly available and not exclusive to the mafia at all.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Murmur Twin posted:

Keep in mind that I'm trying to be careful not to quote anything from my role PM.

I could shoot someone during the day, and while I could target anyone, my bullets don't kill hosts, but can kill humans. The Occam's Razor assumption, at least to me, is that it's as straightforward as "if I target town they live, if I target scum they die".

Good to know. You now have most of my trust. You're either town or 3P.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


From now on whenever I sign up for a game I'm going to say exactly how many games I've played so that people can keep track of it and we don't waste all these words!

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015


Doctor Rope

##vote sentimental snail

- They express a willingness to not vote KB without really explaining why.

- They don't actually do much of any real casing in their posts and the call outs they do make are already addressed by other players.

- They land a vote on RF, whom I admittedly think is funny looking so far this game, but the entirety of sentimental's posts look way worse to me.

- Where I think RF may be faking reads and opinions, I feel that sentimental is.

---

sentimental snail posted:

anyone claiming a pr is not town. humans are the ones that need to get in to character. mystery solved!
Joke post, but kind of weird??

sentimental snail posted:

I don't have a pr. do you?

Claiming to be vanilla is not a tell, but still in line with their previous post it just seems weird because they drop this "joke" entirely and moves on to make some pseudo-engaged posts about MMTs alignment, responding to a question by RF and then goes into some Mafia posting advice to look helpful???

Then they make a really poor attempt at a case on RF.

sentimental snail posted:

rf willfully tossed out a vote without reading to see what he was agreeing with, or even checking to see if he actually agreed with something.

I don't fault kb or anyone for not participating much or not putting out content on a day one weekend with 90% fluff. I'm not willing to vote him when that's the entire case.


I don't understand what's going on in most of this post. but I feel like the narrative being stuck on knowing or not knowing it's her second game is something that scum are totally content with, if not driving themselves.

it's all white noise detracting from a few things that should be looked at. here's one ##vote rf

In this post, there is flimsy reasoning for the RF vote. More KB defending, and then something that I already called out and think is probably the most important thing to take away from all this is their stance on what's happening with the second game knowledge.

IF they feel scum are driving this thread derailing narrative, why aren't they engaging the players discussing it and opting out for this easy, mostly unexplained, vote on RF???

I don't think sentimental is town.

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votefinder
Jul 6, 2010



Votecount for Day 1

Retro Futurist (3): Quidthulhu, merk, sentimental snail
Tobbs Gnawed (2): flerp, Anomalous Amalgam, Tolly Totes, Anomalous Amalgam, Atomic Soda, Atomic Soda, Tolly Totes, Hal Incandenza
Anomalous Amalgam (2): DGK2000, Gridlocked, Murmur Twin, b-minus1, merk, DGK2000, merk, Murmur Twin, Tobbs Gnawed, Tobbs Gnawed
merk (1): Tobbs Gnawed, Tobbs Gnawed, HiipFire, HiipFire, DGK2000
King Burgundy (1): Lando131, Lando131, Murmur Twin, Murmur Twin, Dancer
sentimental snail (1): Tobbs Gnawed, Tobbs Gnawed, Anomalous Amalgam
DGK2000 (1): HiipFire
50 pounds of bread (1): Murmur Twin
Tolly Totes (1): Tobbs Gnawed, Lando131, Lumpen, Lando131, Lumpen, Lumpen, Lando131, Lando131, Tobbs Gnawed, Lando131, Lando131
Lumpen (0): Anomalous Amalgam, Anomalous Amalgam, sentimental snail, Lando131, Lando131, sentimental snail
Quidthulhu (0): Dead Cow, King Burgundy, Dead Cow, King Burgundy, Anomalous Amalgam, Anomalous Amalgam
HiipFire (0): Dancer, Dancer, Murmur Twin, Murmur Twin
b-minus1 (0): King Burgundy, King Burgundy
Dancer (0): Dancer, Dancer
Lando131 (0): merk, merk, DGK2000, Tobbs Gnawed, Tobbs Gnawed, DGK2000
Murmur Twin (0): sentimental snail, sentimental snail, Anomalous Amalgam, King Burgundy, Retro Futurist, Anomalous Amalgam, King Burgundy, Retro Futurist

Not Voting (9): 50 pounds of bread, Atomic Soda, Dead Cow, King Burgundy, Lando131, Mr. F!, Retro Futurist, Tobbs Gnawed, Tolly Totes

With 22 alive, it's 12 votes to execute. The current deadline is February 27th, 2018 at 6:30 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 day, 21 hours.

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