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GeneX
Sep 29, 2014

Pathetic.
Awful Games Done Quick 2018 Survivor



50 pounds of bread posted:


I think if my role was permanent 50% fail chance instead of one time, it would have been a great role.

I don't like % things very much, so maybe just a "your night and/or day action fails every other cycle, beginning with this daystart"?

So you don't permanently cripple anyone, but can create huge, known-to-scum holes in investigator knowledge and so on

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Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


IMO the biggest mistake was voting dancer instead of 50 on that one day, which lead to dancer doing exactly what he said he would and bringing AA back to life, wasting a day.

merk
May 20, 2003

The Greatest Mafia
Champion


I probably played my best scum game in years and was lynched solely due to other players being “confirmed” and me being the odd man out.

This setup was not fun starting after the day DGK was modkilled because the only thing discussed was role. It didn’t even feel like mafia anymore.

merk
May 20, 2003

The Greatest Mafia
Champion


DGK2000 posted:

Oh hey called the scum for the most part.

Congrats on getting modkilled!

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



merk posted:

I probably played my best scum game in years and was lynched solely due to other players being “confirmed” and me being the odd man out.

This setup was not fun starting after the day DGK was modkilled because the only thing discussed was role. It didn’t even feel like mafia anymore.

Yeah, I appreciated a lot of ideas here in the setup, but it was too busy, and that made it a solved game as far as the scum were concerned.

Tolly Totes
Oct 11, 2016

I love getting up early. There's a certain freshness to the air and the wildlife is much more active.


I think I probably would have had more fun on the mafia than on the town, fwiw.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

There is no truth beyond magic.

Guess what dudes? Town won this game when merk died. The Masons did not have a nightkill or any further means to acquire one.
Town win condition: "You win when all lethal threats to the town are vanquished."

The Masons were not a lethal threat to the Town.

In order to get that 3P win, they would have needed to control the vote when the last Scum or the SK died. What's the exact wording of the Mason win condition?

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



Tolly Totes posted:

I think I probably would have had more fun on the mafia than on the town, fwiw.

We had a blast until we realized that everyone in the game basically had comfortable night actions.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

There is no truth beyond magic.

I just read that the Scum wincon was "You win when nothing can stop Human (Scum) control of the votes and all lethal 3P are dead."

This further underlines that the game distinguished between lethal 3P and non-lethal. The SK was a lethal threat to everyone and the Masons BrutalCop shots were an additional lethal threat to non-merk Scum and Framed Town.

At the time of merk's death, all "lethal threats" to the Town were vanquished.

Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

Skengman


Lumpen posted:

I just read that the Scum wincon was "You win when nothing can stop Human (Scum) control of the votes and all lethal 3P are dead."

This further underlines that the game distinguished between lethal 3P and non-lethal. The SK was a lethal threat to everyone and the Masons BrutalCop shots were an additional lethal threat to non-merk Scum and Framed Town.

At the time of merk's death, all "lethal threats" to the Town were vanquished.

Nah, the masons could've killed both Hosts or Humans if they guessed correctly on either with the brutal cops. They all decided to go for Humans but it was completely up to them to go for Hosts, Humans, or a mix. Just because they didn't end using it on town doesn't mean they weren't a potential threat. It would be splitting hairs to be that specific in a win condition. They had powers that could potentially harm town (or scum), so once they had a free choice to pick and choose, they became an immediate threat to the town because they were are potentially lethal.

Ironically, had that happened (them hitting 2 or 3 people), it would probably lead to a chain lynch and they wouldn't have won.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

There is no truth beyond magic.

Deadbeat Dad posted:

Nah, the masons could've killed both Hosts or Humans if they guessed correctly on either with the brutal cops. They all decided to go for Humans but it was completely up to them to go for Hosts, Humans, or a mix. Just because they didn't end using it on town doesn't mean they weren't a potential threat. It would be splitting hairs to be that specific in a win condition. They had powers that could potentially harm town (or scum), so once they had a free choice to pick and choose, they became an immediate threat to the town because they were are potentially lethal.

Ironically, had that happened (them hitting 2 or 3 people), it would probably lead to a chain lynch and they wouldn't have won.
But did they have any shots or any ability to gain shots on day 9? It's their own fault if they blew their wad early, leading to Town's win.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

There is no truth beyond magic.

Knowing now that they had the ability to kill Hosts if they were smart enough to plan ahead, but didn't, makes it even more clear that this should have been called for Town at the end of D8.

EVEN if you want to say the Masons were an "informed minority" amongst an "uninformed majority" and so we should play on... when the numbers became equal on D10 and the Masons could no longer be threatened by Town, that's the end.

I know it's your game, you're the Mod, so ultimately you call the game, and I'm being pedantic. But still.

Please post the exact wording of the Mason wincon.

Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

Skengman


Lumpen posted:

But did they have any shots or any ability to gain shots on day 9? It's their own fault if they blew their wad early, leading to Town's win.

They had to use it specifically that day, per me. For the town win condition it said lethal threats, not current lethal threats. The fact that they had 3 brutal cops at their disposal which could've killed 3 Hosts if they wanted to meant that they were a lethal threat, even though it wasn't used. And that's not really something I can discuss before the PM's are sent to them. "Hey, are you going to kill Hosts if all 3 of you stay alive and do what you're required? Because otherwise, you aren't technically a lethal threat if that doesn't happen!" It doesn't work like that.

Again, it's splitting hairs on definition of how it's written. You played a great game and honestly it's probably the same as a win for you, you did all you could. But it's the fact that they became a 3P and had 3 potential NK's at their disposal which by definition, made them a lethal threat to everybody the minute that happened. If there was never any mechanic where they could do harm to you guys, you would have a point. But just because they didn't use it on Hosts, and because they used it early, that would require a whole lot of specificity in the win con that isn't needed, or frankly wasn't even thought about.

Mason wincon:

"If you guys eliminate all other 3rd parties or scum/or they're eliminated, and control the vote count, you guys win as a 3P with a new win condition (compared to the town)."

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

There is no truth beyond magic.

OK man I was just being a dick anyway

Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

Skengman


Lumpen posted:

OK man I was just being a dick anyway

You took that little ole backup doc bus as far as you could!



And technically, they were former hosts so.. maybe they'll share some alcohol in the after party with you guys once you're remade?

GeneX
Sep 29, 2014

Pathetic.
Awful Games Done Quick 2018 Survivor



This is why "or are at parity" is a good modifier if you're making an anti-town faction. Or make survivors, not another scumteam. That also works, and I honestly believe would have made for much better gameplay.

I have been in two games recently where I didn't technically win as scum while at parity (there because of theoretical night actions/misreads in an open setup, here because we had no normal kill(s) and lucked/bluffed our way into winning), and it just feels...obnoxious. There there was a bunch of discussion over role reads, how to sift through all the mechanical data, and so forth because it was an open setup and the kill method involved sequential role/player matching, but here? Here we should have won the day prior with the RF mislynch, or we should have lost 2 days prior when merk got lynched.

This game only ended because KB decided that no lynching forever was stupid, and alignment screwery was more likely than a full half of the players being scum. That's just kinda dumb.

merk
May 20, 2003

The Greatest Mafia
Champion


As a final note: Please tell people when you are running a role madness game.

merk
May 20, 2003

The Greatest Mafia
Champion


ALL SOUR GRAPES ASIDE, the setup is really innovative. Having a 'quest' for a mason group is something I've never seen before.

Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

Skengman


merk posted:

ALL SOUR GRAPES ASIDE, the setup is really innovative. Having a 'quest' for a mason group is something I've never seen before.

Thanks! There are a few roles I'd like to incorporate (or people can steal/tinker with) for future games, obviously they will probably work better without it being a role madness game as far as effectiveness.

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b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008



yeah overall I had a blast, and it was fun to follow the game even after I died. I think the Framer role should be beefed up a bit or switched with something else, because once the investigative roles die, the role becomes sort of useless. THanks for running the game.

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