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Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Atomic Soda posted:

i understand this perspective but its also from your point of view if you see mine.


do you think i had reasons to vote for tobbs? do you think i'm scum? it certainly has got everyone excited.

I think it doesn't look good for Tolly.

For example, last game Moat pushed MMT without really getting into any casing. His cageyness was due to him being the cop and having a result on her.

That's simply not a possibility in this case, and if she's trying to emulate that cageyness in the hopes that other players will jump on it thinking she has a result, well, that's bad.

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Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Lando131 posted:

Hi this is my second game too. My first was 4 years ago. Im just slightly more informed because ive been reading Mafia games for fun again for the last few months.

Lando131 posted:

I mentioned this in one of my earlier replies but I've read most of the Mafia games recently. The main exception is Shine because I didn't want to deal with reading multiple threads for a single game.

Lando131 posted:

That's fair because she said she was new and this is the second game I've seen her in. I assumed this was her second game on SA but I suppose she could have played another one I wasn't aware of. That said she came out firing in Westworld. The core of my point to DKG was that it seemed early in the game to get suspicious on the ground of no content, with a bit of extra skepticism because it targeted a relatively new player.

I'm pretty sure everything I've said is true but I guess my apologies to Tolly if I've misrepresented her.

Lando131 posted:

You are super paranoid and to be honest this line of thought is starting to get under my skin. I've been reading Mafia games on SA for the last 3 months or so, including at work on breaks, after having taken something like a 7 year hiatus from doing so. I checked on votefinder for that. Hint: I'm considered a spectator instead of a player in that first game because I had to sub out.

Simply put, you should consider not questioning people's knowledge when they give you actual evidence, especially a new player. Especially an active new player who has no intention of lurking, because if you make the game unfun to play they might not play anymore. I don't even care if you want to vote me, but this line of reasoning stinks.

If I've learned one thing I should try to leave people's names out of it when I think someone else is making a stupid play, but being called out for knowing what I actually know because I've been following this community and wanted to be a part of it is some real poo poo. It's especially stupid because there's literally no way I can refute it.

I guess let this be a warning to future lurkers turn players: Make sure to comment in threads postgame or the general mafia discussion or knowing who some people are will be suspect. Or just keep your mouth shut and lurk. But I'd rather :justpost:

So, what is it? Is it because you've been reading all the games recently? Did you just assume it was her second game? Did you check votefinder?

I had already backed off and wasn't voting you, so this really seems like a disproportionate response. I literally said, multiple times, that if you flip scum I'll use that info to find your scumbros. If you're town it shouldn't matter at all.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Tolly Totes posted:

Tobbs, indirectly what you’ve stated is that you think there is a mafia team of Lando, Atomic Soda and myself. Is that a set of reads you stand by?

I said if Lando is scum, he's scum with someone who has seen our discord chats.

That includes a number of players in this game, and is useful info.

You're putting words in my mouth here. I've neither explicitly said nor implied AS is on a team with either of you. I think your reasonless vote "for reasons" is scummy, and AS buying it was scummy (though she backed off).

As for Lando and you being on a team, that would require some bussing to be happening. I won't rule it out, but it's not something strong that needs pushing either.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Tolly Totes posted:

What is the interpretation of quoting me and then Atomic Soda voting you and then saying “this is a scummy push.” if you’re not saying that we are both mafia?

Voting a player without any reason and calling it serious is scummy.

Going along with it is also scummy.

Am I voting either of you? No. But in the tapestry of making an alignment call on either of you, those are dark squares.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Tolly Totes posted:

If you’re saying Lando is with somebody who has seen our discord chats then you’re saying he’s scum with me, you, mmt or AA. You’ve said MMT is town and you’re clearly not saying it’s you, so the pointer is to me or AA right?

Nope.

There were other players in that game with access to the dead doc/scum doc. It's not a huge list, but it includes more than just us.

If Lando flips scum, that list is useful, because Lando's scum flip makes it very likely he was communicating OOT with someone on that list.

If you're curious, the discord channels are still up. You can see who joined them.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Tolly Totes posted:

I was interpreting “push” as you saying we’re working together to vote you.

AS realized it was a bad push and backed off.

Town players can certainly be scummy, but hopping on a train with a bad vote is a good way to get caught as scum.

Your vote on me is bad. Flerp's is hopefully a joke (or he's scum and I get shot N1).

Are you gonna continue to act like you have some result on me, or are you going to admit that your vote on me isn't backed up by anything meaningful?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

DGK2000 posted:

Um... RF is Opoponax.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
Well MMT?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Murmur Twin posted:

##vote Hiipfire

He's posting in the thread but has zero content.

You are 0/2

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Hal Incandenza posted:

I don't really like when anyone feels the need to offer (multiple!) defenses before the case/claim has even been made. It would have been better (but still kinda bad) to just have said "Tolly can't have anything on me" but feeling the need to preemptively offer defenses for any possibility screams self-conscious.

##vote Tobbs

Yeah, I'll just not defend myself against baseless accusations because that's the town thing to do.

I figured I'd nip it in the bud and let everyone know that there aren't going to be any revelations.

There can't be any, unless those revelations are that I'm town.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
Also a little odd that Hal's jumping on after I called out Tolly, who hasn't felt that it's necessary or useful to respond.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Lando131 posted:

I really don't like this unvote, it speaks of being very self conscious about how her reads are be interpreted. If your gut feeling or case was that strong having it cave under so little pressure is dubious.

I think it's scummy, but I'm trying to wrap my head around why scum would have an ability like MMT just used. I want to hear if Quid has any feedback or possible counterclaim to why he'd survive getting shot in the head even more now.

It's highly unlikely scum would have an ability like that.

Quid doesn't need to claim anything. Hell, even the flavor points strongly to him being a host.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

I think it's time to ##vote AA

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Quidthulhu posted:

I don't really get AA's vote on me at all. Like, the only thing that this doesn't clear me from is me being 3p, but even if that were the case, why would he be worrying about that?

Cuz he's scum, Quid.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I misunderstood something. I was taking family photos and didnt and read mmt follow up post.

##unvote

Kaaaaaaay

##unvote

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

merk posted:

what

Can we lynch this person, comrades?

What DBD said is that flavor (character from the show) and alignment (human vs. Host) might not line up.

If RF is human-aligned, he's scum. I think he's saying he's host aligned but has a human character for flavor (since it was all randomized).

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

50 pounds of bread posted:

Okay, but so far the cop ability we have seen looks for human or host. This would make any human that is host-aligned effectively a miller to MMT's ability.

I feel like this is clearly the most likely thing here.

Pretty sure that's wrong.

You could be, say, Anthony Hopkins in game and be a Host. Nowhere would it state that you're human. Host and Human are explicitly alignments.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

50 pounds of bread posted:

I'd really like RF to confirm if his role pm states if he is a host-aligned human or not.

If he is assuming he is human because of flavor reasons, it makes my assessment less accurate. If his PM states he is a human that is host-aligned, it all but confirms my assessment.

This doesn't even make sense.

"You are a Westworld Host-aligned (role) (Town)."

Human isn't a role.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

50 pounds of bread posted:

You are not good at this thinking thing are you?

Are you asking RF if he's a Westworld-aligned Miller?

Because you could be a Westworld-aligned Miller...and be a Host from the show.

Unless you think RF scumclaimed this whole line of questioning is meaningless.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Deadbeat Dad posted:

Characters from the actual show that are hosts or human have literally no bearing on anything in the game, just so future posts don't get brought up about that.

50 pounds of bread posted:

For example the role could be miller, and the descriptive flavor could mention that they are a human who sympathizes with the hosts.

Why is this hard?

Did you miss this or what?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Retro Futurist posted:

Ok this is probably a mistake but I feel like it's worth mentioning because we're starting to get led down this path.

I am not a host, but I am Host Aligned. I'm assuming I'm not the only one, and that there are non-Host Aligned host characters.

ie Don't make flavour cases.

He's saying right here that he's host-aligned, and not claiming Miller.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
I don't know MMT is town, I just strongly believe she is.

And if Lando dies and flips town, it's all irrelevant anyways. At first I thought he was fumbling with his response and therefore behaving like caught scum, but he was pretty vehement in his self-defense which seems like a town response (especially for newer/inexperienced players).

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Tolly Totes posted:

Also, and this can't be understated, the whole original idea that somebody hearing something in their personal chat and then immediately posting it in the thread without thinking about it is more likely than a novice player who said he reads other games reading another game was ridiculous in the first place.

Scum have been caught by sharing info that could only be obtained by having inside information.

That may or may not be what's happening here, but it's something I keep in mind.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

50 pounds of bread posted:

See this is what I don't buy. I read mafia games for fun, why wouldn't other people?

Most people don't even read the threads they're posting in?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Tolly Totes posted:

I really actually do want to drop this because I think it's unproductive but maybe don't assume that you know how most people behave?

50% tongue-in-cheek
50% hard truth
0% assumption

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

50 pounds of bread posted:

The accusation here is that someone who is informed on info from their scum buddies would come to the thread, and post their knowledge of it. Why would that ever happen?

It happens accidentally. Scum can't keep everything straight, whether it's their opinions, or what info they should or should not have. It's a major accusation that gets thrown at many potential scumbos, and I think it's a good way to find scum.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

50 pounds of bread posted:

I have never seen the particular scumslip you are talking about and I have been playing mafia on SA for 11 years.

GHGD in one of the shine games was a scum boss, shared info he shouldn't have had, and got dunked.

KhediveRex said he knew I was town, and put me on a list of people he thought were scum. I called him out on it. He was scum and ended up winning that game.

I apparently don't even remember most of the games I've played, but scumslips happen.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Hot takes before I do some more casing:

RF looks bad.
Tobbs is looking worse by the second.
Still a lot of lurking, but with a full IRL day out, it's probably not that pressing.

TBH I'm annoyed that stuff I think I've already fully explained keeps getting brought up, but I think it's scummier to ignore people than it is to respond.

But please, AA, if youre going to throw shade at me so casually, at least have something with which to back it up.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
Lot of shitposts from flerp followed by a lot of disappearing for 2 days.

Hi scum flerp.

##vote flerp

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
I was hoping to see a hot take or two.

Also who has zero free time on the weekends and only posts on weekdays?

Anywho I stand by it.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

flerp posted:

when i said i wont be able to post this weekend, i meant it. this thread has been going hard d1 and i dont have the time to read people or their cases. ive skimmed, but barely.

Love you flerpy boy.

##unvote

I actually skimmed over your second post.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
New Hot takes:

Tolly town.

Lean scum b-minus1.

Lean even more scum snail.

sentimental snail posted:

I would vote for rf. probably would not for kb, probably would for most others

sentimental snail posted:

rf willfully tossed out a vote without reading to see what he was agreeing with, or even checking to see if he actually agreed with something.

I don't fault kb or anyone for not participating much or not putting out content on a day one weekend with 90% fluff. I'm not willing to vote him when that's the entire case.


I don't understand what's going on in most of this post. but I feel like the narrative being stuck on knowing or not knowing it's her second game is something that scum are totally content with, if not driving themselves.

it's all white noise detracting from a few things that should be looked at. here's one ##vote rf

SS would happily vote for most people, but not KB. When asked about it, he says he's not impressed with a case based on low content during what he sees as a joke weekend.

Mind you, people started getting serious a while ago. What's most telling is that snail is willing to vote for most people for presumably no reason, but has a reason for not wanting to vote KB.

Mind you, I'm not saying anything about KB's alignment. I think SS just made something up on the fly when questioned about it. It's a fake opinion.

##vote stickup

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

merk posted:

Can someone try to put a votecount on every page?

Some dude did ##votecount in bold and I think it worked?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

b-minus1 posted:

hiipfire hasn't contributed anything meaningful. they've just been coasting under the radar, only showing up to make a white noise/unhelpful posts

##vote HipFire

Bad vote, this is.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
Host is an alignment.

Human is an alignment.

The character you are on the show is irrelevant to alignment.

Unless you think MMT claimed to use a brutal flavor cop?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Retro Futurist posted:

I suspect she’s some kind of 3p lyncher personaly. Or it’s a brutal daycop and we’re all confused by flavour, but again that means DBD put a role in that mod confirmed 2 people as town D1

She could be 3P but almost certainly not human.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Lando131 posted:

Tobbs this is the second time you've done this. The first was when MMT put it down, and now B-minus1. I'm starting to think you might have some information the rest of us don't.

If this is purely because not posting much on a weekend, it makes your previous vote on flerp look even worse so I'm very interested in why you think this.
Apologies if this has been addressed, I just woke up and am reading through what I missed.

I'm forbidden from explicitly confirming certain things, but let's just say I wouldn't hammer hiipfire even to avoid a no-lynch.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Lando131 posted:

I was legitimately curious why Tobbs would be so sure of someone who hasn't posted any content. I almost asked before when he pushed MMT away from her vote, but seeing it again made me think it was more than just a simple townread.

I think it's important to know. If Tobbs ever flips scum I'm going to laser in on Hiipfire and be pretty sure of myself.

I have zero problem with this position.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
I would vote AS as well.

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Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Hal Incandenza posted:

Did you decide on this new approach before or after the game started?

He's been talking about it since FF7.

You can probably blame me :)

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