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AG3
Feb 4, 2004

Ask me about spending hundreds of dollars on Mass Effect 2 emoticons and Avatars.



Oven Wrangler

Yami Fenrir posted:

Oh, right.

Well, I would not be surprised whatsoever if they still attempted to grow.

Because Paradox.

I wouldn't be surprised if negative numbers flipped around and became something like 451309182439875122% growth per month. Because Paradox.

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Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

It's really annoying me that the vampire ruling class has regular growth but with a penalty. They should not grow at all but be "built" like robots as your other pops are consumed. It's annoying me because these guys would be the perfect guys to show off some form of "fixed", more flexible pop growth system but instead they're just a glaring spotlight on the existing limitations.

It also annoys me that they have a penalty to basic jobs built in.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Oct 9, 2020

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Splicer posted:

It's really annoying me that the vampire ruling class has regular growth but with a penalty. They should not grow at all but be "built" like robots as your other pops are consumed.

It's the Paradox way of completely unnecessary jank.

Because of the way they made it, you'll not only have to set your pop growth manually (which has a penalty for no good reason to begin with given the broken pop growth system regarding void wellers and such), you'll likely ALSO have to spread out all of your non-necro pops across planets and likely habitats.

Because the temples have a really low limit on pop conversion. Naturally.

Staltran
Jan 3, 2013



Fallen Rib

If I understand how pop growth works correctly, even if negative-growth speed species can be chosen to grow it will then immediately cancel and reroll next month. I might be wrong though, who knows what will actually happen. Lithoids seem to make necros since you're not growing them anyway.

Also, abandoning a planet so you can resettle it and get two free pops with the tradition might be sometimes worth it for these guys. Actually... does abandoning a planet clear the stellar culture shock modifier?

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Yami Fenrir posted:

It's the Paradox way of completely unnecessary jank.

Because of the way they made it, you'll not only have to set your pop growth manually (which has a penalty for no good reason to begin with given the broken pop growth system regarding void wellers and such), you'll likely ALSO have to spread out all of your non-necro pops across planets and likely habitats.

Because the temples have a really low limit on pop conversion. Naturally.
If the pop growth system was not awful you could basically make these reverse gene clinics. Each working necroacolyte generates +1 necropoint and -25% planetary pop growth or whatever, and you could build as many as you like because negative pop growth would just turn into increased declining.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Someone wanted a logarithmic scale on this last time I posted it so here it is

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



Kudos for doing that, but a log scale is totally impractical as the guy with 50% more fleet power is going to faceroll any AI in their vicinity. The first graph is more correct in its dramatic differentials.

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010


Staltran posted:

Actually... does abandoning a planet clear the stellar culture shock modifier?

It will slowly tick away at the normal rate, it isn't cleared upon abandon/resettle.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Serephina posted:

Kudos for doing that, but a log scale is totally impractical as the guy with 50% more fleet power is going to faceroll any AI in their vicinity. The first graph is more correct in its dramatic differentials.

It's more so the earlier years aren't just a single line

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


Yami Fenrir posted:

Oh, right.

Well, I would not be surprised whatsoever if they still attempted to grow.

Because Paradox.

Buffer overflow and it'll roll around to a 65,555% grow rate

Arcanuse
Mar 14, 2019



could go for the comedy option; negative growth rate causing the pops to be purged/displace/emigrate over time so the necroids are dying out (re-animating?) while the living pops don't grow fast enough to replace them

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


All I'm getting from the Necrophage civic is that unless they get raiding baked-in Nihilistic Acquisition is gonna be a mandatory perk.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

And Tyler Too! posted:

All I'm getting from the Necrophage civic is that unless they get raiding baked-in Nihilistic Acquisition is gonna be a mandatory perk.

Here's the thing though: I'm not sure that is really the case. 10 years is a LOT of time for 3 pops to grow for the base version.

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."


Yami Fenrir posted:

Funnily enough, if you think about it this is just a way worse version of the stuff that hivemind mod (Forgotten queens or something) adds.

The parasitic embryo civic from that mod is hilarious, but also has some unfortunate diplomatic penalties. Since it works by purging pops, and you get one of your pops for every pop you purge, you get a massive, massive genocide diplomatic penalty with everyone in the galaxy as soon as you start sacrificing pops.

It is super fun though, and the new tribute type is really effective at letting you grow stupidly quickly, especially in conjunction with the civic that lets your drones automatically resettle around the empire automatically.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Yami Fenrir posted:

Here's the thing though: I'm not sure that is really the case. 10 years is a LOT of time for 3 pops to grow for the base version.
Yeah, a pop takes 100 growth points to grow and the unmodified growth rate is 3 per month. So 10 years = 360 points = 3.6 pops per 3 converted. It would take a lot of negative modifiers for it to become a problem. Unless your leaders start gumming up the build slot of course.

What's funny is that necrophytes generate amenities for everyone. As soon as you take over a planet everyone finds watching your guys shove parasites into themselves super entertaining.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Splicer posted:

What's funny is that necrophytes generate amenities for everyone. As soon as you take over a planet everyone finds watching your guys shove parasites into themselves super entertaining.

the lich king provides only the finest pre-afterlife care

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.


Does anyone else really, really hate the "Planet That Wasn't There" anomaly? It's up there with Arrested Development as the single biggest annoyance in the game; not so much because they're big deals but because they're such infuriating little gently caress-yous that have no reason to exist.

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Is that the one with the planet that switches between Gaia World and Shrouded World? To continue that anomaly you need to settle the Gaia world and stabilize it before it switches to Shrouded.

Arrested Development can gently caress right off though.

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.


And Tyler Too! posted:

Is that the one with the planet that switches between Gaia World and Shrouded World? To continue that anomaly you need to settle the Gaia world and stabilize it before it switches to Shrouded.

Arrested Development can gently caress right off though.

No it's the one where the planet turns out to be a hologram and gets removed from the game after you finish researching it. You're thinking of the Veil.

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Jabarto posted:

No it's the one where the planet turns out to be a hologram and gets removed from the game after you finish researching it. You're thinking of the Veil.

In that case I have never seen that anomaly but now I kind of want to.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


So uh... what happens when you colonize it before researching it?

CommunityEdition
May 1, 2009


Leal posted:

So uh... what happens when you colonize it before researching it?

IIRC, you flat out can’t colonize anything with an unresolved anomaly still on it.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


Aw, was hoping for some classic stellaris buggery. Or the moral quandary of the citizens realizing the planet they're on isn't real, and that they themselves are not real.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


Poil posted:

Yep. Here have this cool and powerful psionic troop. Oh and robots are immune to them. Oh and gene warrior are so powerful the morale damage doesn't matter. And everyone can get these other troops which are also immune anyway.

Not limited by pops is the big kicker here. Swarm em with zombies like a true lich lord (infinite robot legions are for MECHANISTS)

jwalrus
Jul 27, 2007


Something that's come up in my current game: If I have a megacorp protectorate, can they open branch offices on my planets?

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Leal posted:

So uh... what happens when you colonize it before researching it?

You can't. When you do the anomaly it says to colonize it to get the scientists on board to help stabilize it. The planet will fluctuate between Gaia and Shrouded so you have to babysit that system until it's habitable, but hey, free Gaia world.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

And Tyler Too! posted:

In that case I have never seen that anomaly but now I kind of want to.

Believe me, finding a perfect world for your species, size 20, and then seeing it disappear into nothingness is not something you want to see. It's funny if it happens to a planet you didn't want to colonize, though.

Now I wonder who is setting up holographic planets and why? Just to gently caress with other species? Think about how assholish this would be if some poor bastards without FTL would have send their slower-than-light generation ships to a holographic planet. They would have been super-hosed.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


Libluini posted:

Believe me, finding a perfect world for your species, size 20, and then seeing it disappear into nothingness is not something you want to see. It's funny if it happens to a planet you didn't want to colonize, though.

Now I wonder who is setting up holographic planets and why? Just to gently caress with other species? Think about how assholish this would be if some poor bastards without FTL would have send their slower-than-light generation ships to a holographic planet. They would have been super-hosed.

You understand now why the Yuht were such assholes.

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010


CommunityEdition posted:

IIRC, you flat out can’t colonize anything with an unresolved anomaly still on it.

A couple of events will colonize a random planet in your empire, which will let you get a colony on a planet with an anomaly, but yes, it's normally prohibited.

For the hologram planet (not the Veil one), it just deletes the colony as if it was hit with a colossus.

Complications
Jun 19, 2014



Libluini posted:

Believe me, finding a perfect world for your species, size 20, and then seeing it disappear into nothingness is not something you want to see. It's funny if it happens to a planet you didn't want to colonize, though.

Now I wonder who is setting up holographic planets and why? Just to gently caress with other species? Think about how assholish this would be if some poor bastards without FTL would have send their slower-than-light generation ships to a holographic planet. They would have been super-hosed.

I mean if Stellaris gave me the option to megastructure a holographic planet into existence for society research via wargames or something I'd totally do it.

I have the biggest dick most megastructures.

Vord
Oct 27, 2007


Jabarto posted:

Does anyone else really, really hate the "Planet That Wasn't There" anomaly? It's up there with Arrested Development as the single biggest annoyance in the game; not so much because they're big deals but because they're such infuriating little gently caress-yous that have no reason to exist.

I don't really hate it. For me it's usually an "eh, ok" moment. Except for the one time it was one of my GUARANTEED HABITABLE WORLDS at the start of a multiplayer game.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer



Yami Fenrir posted:

Funnily enough, if you think about it this is just a way worse version of the stuff that hivemind mod (Forgotten queens or something) adds.

That’s true but the base mechanics they’re adding might make it easier for that modder to mess around with stuff. They’re very ambitious but some of the stuff they made doesn’t actually function, and Paradox adding something like this might allow them to piggyback off of it.

Black Pants
Jan 16, 2008

Such comfortable, magical pants!

Lipstick Apathy


Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.



err



and that's only the ones I have active right now

e: I don't even think it's particularly extreme, watch someone post a screenshot of 200 mods plus.

Private Speech fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Oct 15, 2020

Black Pants
Jan 16, 2008

Such comfortable, magical pants!

Lipstick Apathy

Private Speech posted:

err



and that's only the ones I have active right now

The screenshot isn't bragging about the number of mods I have. :P

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


Black Pants posted:

The screenshot isn't bragging about the number of mods I have. :P

Oh umm, I don't think I get it then.

I'm currently down with covid so might be a bit slow.

Black Pants
Jan 16, 2008

Such comfortable, magical pants!

Lipstick Apathy

The.. the columns are broken? The name column is bunched up and the toggle button is halfway off the edge of the screen.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


Black Pants posted:

The.. the columns are broken? The name column is bunched up and the toggle button is halfway off the edge of the screen.

Oh yeah, I didn't even notice. TBH the mod manager is pretty broken as a whole once you get into three digits of mods anyway, even just trying to reorder is a complete pain - I have to do it like 20 times to drag a mod from the bottom to the top.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

Just use Irony Mod Manager instead, which will export lists to Paradox's broke-rear end manager.

https://bcssov.github.io/IronyModManager/

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Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."


Thinking about it, there are only two games that I use an extensive mod list (10+ mods, as opposed to something like Old World Blues for HoI4) for: Rimworld and Stellaris.

Rimworld is a perfectly competent base game, and the mods that I put in are mostly just to add neat new stuff like androids, bees, new wildlife, genetic experimentation, space ships, etc. The mods are much less about fixing things, and while there are a few quality of life mods, most of them are focused on adding content.

Stellaris, on the other hand, is, well, lacking in vanilla. The AI is pretty dire and needs mods to fix it, pop management and building management is a pain in the rear end and mods help with fixing those, the UI is also pretty dire and mods help with making it work when you have more than a dozen planets, etc. And then when it comes to content, again the base game is lacking. Planets feel a bit lifeless, habitats aren't particularly interesting, there aren't many megastructures to build and they only show up near the end of the game, and just in general things feel stale.

That all being said, I have put a LOT of time into Stellaris - steam says 800 hours. Stellaris with mods is something that I enjoy, clearly. I've only played it vanilla 2-3 times, and it was an exercise in tedium and frustration to constantly play whack-a-mole with building buildings on planets and shuttling pops around. Some of that still exists even with mods (my kingdom for a way to apply a template to a world or set up a build order for each planet so that I can specify what I want to have happen and never check it again - planet designations even with mods don't pull this off properly).

Maybe it's just perspective - I got into adding mods in Rimworld because I wanted to add more stuff on top of the base game that sounded cool. I got into adding mods into Stellaris because I wanted to fix things with the base game that were tedious.

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