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And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


The White Dragon posted:

oh, have they changed strike craft since i started playing in june? they were really broken then, and not in the good way. can you replace a corvette picket with a dozen carriers or smth

Strike Craft are no longer the comedy option. They're much stronger and have an engagement range of 150. Used en masse they shred poo poo (as long as that poo poo does not have picket guns).

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Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Tortured By Flan

how do carrier-fit ships regenerate fighters? over time in space or when healing at a star base?

Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.

Over time, at all times.

Chikimiki
May 14, 2009


HelloSailorSign posted:

Hangar/PD battleships seem to be particularly suited for Fallen Empire (particularly Spiritualist) and Scourge fights, as the fighters are just constantly going after enemy fighters and missiles while they can actually take a few hits and not immediately die/ewarp out.


That makes me curious, is there a recommended build against the tempest? I've seen the recommendation to favor PD and shields on your own ships for defense, but how do you inflict the most damage to them?

Entorwellian
Jun 30, 2006

Northern Flicker
Anna's Hummingbird

Sorry, but the people have spoken.



The White Dragon posted:

oh, have they changed strike craft since i started playing in june? they were really broken then, and not in the good way. can you replace a corvette picket with a dozen carriers or smth

They're insane when you put hanger defense on your starbases at chokepoints. They give the highest fleet power number for your starbase and you can dissuade overwhelming fleets from entering your star system. They are my go-to for surviving the early game on Grand Admiral ever since they also knackered a lot of the edicts and policies for population growth.

Thrasophius
Oct 27, 2013



HelloSailorSign posted:

Hangar/PD battleships seem to be particularly suited for Fallen Empire (particularly Spiritualist) and Scourge fights, as the fighters are just constantly going after enemy fighters and missiles while they can actually take a few hits and not immediately die/ewarp out.


You can and then nobody in the Federation cares.

- get some favors
- ensure you're >50% of the Federation's diplomatic weight
- use favors to pass diplomatic weight voting type
- make every decision
- decide to give the Strongest empire leadership for life (i.e. you) until someone else surpasses them
- your allies never surpass you
- allies don't give a gently caress
- rule the federation and have a no upkeep 600 death ball fleet at your command

Oh... That's actually really disappointing. I guess I was hoping for some civil war or a kind of end game crisis where everyone sees you for the dictator you are and unites against you. That kind of thing. That sucks.

Entorwellian
Jun 30, 2006

Northern Flicker
Anna's Hummingbird

Sorry, but the people have spoken.



Thrasophius posted:

Oh... That's actually really disappointing. I guess I was hoping for some civil war or a kind of end game crisis where everyone sees you for the dictator you are and unites against you. That kind of thing. That sucks.

Disappointment is a recurring theme in Stellaris.

I 100% agree with the civil war thing being a missed opportunity. Heck I would be happy with just more story and political stuff instead of new half-baked game mechanics being put into the game. At the very least I was happy to see a few more political events with other races being put into the game with Federations (like pissing off a spiritualist empire for building a dyson sphere around their holy star, or opening the space coffin during a survey mission) but they are still too few and far between.

Entorwellian fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Oct 17, 2020

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Tortured By Flan

do strike fighters themselves create a swarm, or will ships still advance through them?

edit - oh heck, I should just go test this

Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Oct 17, 2020

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Chikimiki posted:

That makes me curious, is there a recommended build against the tempest? I've seen the recommendation to favor PD and shields on your own ships for defense, but how do you inflict the most damage to them?

The Tempest are glass cannons, they can dish out tons of damage but they can't take it. They use tons of strike craft and weapons that ignore shields so build your ships for strike craft/missiles and forego your own shields for armor/hull. Build lots of picket destroyers to neutralize their swarms of strike craft.

Electro-Boogie Jack
Nov 22, 2006
bagger mcguirk sent me.


And Tyler Too! posted:

-Install a mod that halves the amount of time it takes the senate to vote on poo poo and halves the recess.

Why is the base time so long?! Especially because there's so little you can do other than spend favors, which just takes a second. I don't know why the voting phase needs to be longer than a year at most.

frogge
Apr 7, 2006




I've been having fun trying out different origins. The best so far is playing the long game as orbital habitat dwellers with the habitable worlds setting way down, then grabbing as much land as possible and outpacing everyone in growth as they fight over the four planets available while you put orbitals in every system.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE


Electro-Boogie Jack posted:

Why is the base time so long?! Especially because there's so little you can do other than spend favors, which just takes a second. I don't know why the voting phase needs to be longer than a year at most.

I think itís solely to keep everyone from immediately getting to the end of the council law tracks.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007



And it's so fun to sit through every AI empire voting through all the yellow and red decisions before you can get anywhere close to the purple for the useful edict. Urgh....

Black Pants
Jan 16, 2008

Such comfortable, magical pants!

Lipstick Apathy

frogge posted:

I've been having fun trying out different origins. The best so far is playing the long game as orbital habitat dwellers with the habitable worlds setting way down, then grabbing as much land as possible and outpacing everyone in growth as they fight over the four planets available while you put orbitals in every system.

Nah.

10 habs in one system.

Also my god troubleshooting a crash with modded Stellaris is a pain in the rear end. Sure okay let me just disable half of my mods and play for 100 years to see if a crash happens.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Poil posted:

And it's so fun to sit through every AI empire voting through all the yellow and red decisions before you can get anywhere close to the purple for the useful edict. Urgh....

The edict never should have been a community thing, ever.

Xarbala
Feb 13, 2011

Rolling Thunder: War to the Knife, Knife to the Hilt

Why? , that's why.



Yami Fenrir posted:

The edict never should have been a community thing, ever.

It's just yet another baffling decision.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Xarbala posted:

It's just yet another baffling decision.

I still remember how they showcased this thing like it's the salvation of Stellaris gameplay...

and then they make the AI never vote for it.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Xarbala posted:

It's just yet another baffling decision.
Nah it makes complete sense. When the new economy came out they made a cool new immigration/emigration pressure thing where pop movement is folded into pop growth. In order for pops to "move" planets with this system as opposed to just growing a bit faster or slower you'd need some pops to "die off". This is what the decline mechanic is for and pops "dying off" to fuel faster growth of the same species group on other or even the same planets has a lot of potential for neat game mechanics. Except for various reasons emigration/immigration/decline/growth boosts doesn't differentiate between species, so emigrating blorg on one planet can become immigrating humans on another. They can't actually leverage the decline mechanic properly because then players will notice hey, I'm actually losing blorg pops completely, what gives? Declining pops is pretty much limited to purges, and the manual pop movement screen is a kludgey replacement. Automatic pop movement would be the final admission that the entire immigration/emigration/decline etc mechanic is a complete failure and needs to be reworked from the ground up, but it looks like player complaints about the pointless micro hit a point where they couldn't just stick their fingers in their ears and la la la about it anymore. Adding automatic pop migration pretty much reimplements the pop migration mechanic that was present in the old system, but gating it behind a bunch of bullshit hoops allows a thin veneer of pretense that it's an optional alternative for certain playstyles and the base system is working fine (it's not)

Splicer fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Oct 18, 2020

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011



Whatís sad to me is that there are easily any number of ďno duhĒ events in Federations that would and could make things interesting. I canít believe that their own system for creating events is so difficult to make at least a few.

Research Federation has a member that embraces psionics - events around the embracing of psionics as an intellectual pursuit vs not? Have the Research Federation be a group of psionics studiers?

Martial Alliance with one stand out member - benefits for the switch to a Hegemony Alliance for the leader, negatives for the followers?

A hegemony that decides to switch to a Galactic Union and recognizes itís fellows? A Galactic Union that works to remove xenophobia ethos from members?

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Stellairs/Common/Edicts/00_edicts.txt



Delete the highlighted part, Greater than Ourselves is now baseline. (Strongly recommend making a local mod otherwise any future updates will revert your changes.)

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.

Clapping Larry

Loaded up Stellaris again. Last time I played was just after they changed how planets are managed. Things look similar, but there's the new galactic community thing which I don't quite understand, and combat feels different again. I'm letting the game handled ship design and am still in the corvette stage so I don't think it matters yet.

Thrasophius
Oct 27, 2013



Entorwellian posted:

Disappointment is a recurring theme in Stellaris.

I 100% agree with the civil war thing being a missed opportunity. Heck I would be happy with just more story and political stuff instead of new half-baked game mechanics being put into the game. At the very least I was happy to see a few more political events with other races being put into the game with Federations (like pissing off a spiritualist empire for building a dyson sphere around their holy star, or opening the space coffin during a survey mission) but they are still too few and far between.

I really enjoyed stellaris but stopped playing after they forced everyone to use hyperlanes by default. I've kept my eye on things but it's been like you've said, just disappointment after disappointment. I just wanted EU4/CK2 in space with better battles.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Thrasophius posted:

I really enjoyed stellaris but stopped playing after they forced everyone to use hyperlanes by default. I've kept my eye on things but it's been like you've said, just disappointment after disappointment. I just wanted EU4/CK2 in space with better battles.

That was like one the best changes they did tho?

Thrasophius
Oct 27, 2013



Yami Fenrir posted:

That was like one the best changes they did tho?

Yeh it was good because it solved a lot of issues but I guess I liked the tactical aspect of how each method worked. Like WH being able to slip behind a hyperspace and they take time to catch up. I loved choke pointing hyperspace civs or making a fast strike fleet to cripple a WH network. There were problems, certainly but I feel a lot of fun was lost that outweighed the problems.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Thrasophius posted:

Yeh it was good because it solved a lot of issues but I guess I liked the tactical aspect of how each method worked. Like WH being able to slip behind a hyperspace and they take time to catch up. I loved choke pointing hyperspace civs or making a fast strike fleet to cripple a WH network. There were problems, certainly but I feel a lot of fun was lost that outweighed the problems.

Well yeah I was a big fan of wormholes too, but it made space terrain entirely meaningless so I'm kinda glad it's gone. Chasing down fleeing hyper jump or even just hyperlane fleets was a pain in the rear end.

If nothing else I love making huge fuckoff bastions and turtling up to research rush.

Gadzuko
Feb 14, 2005


Thrasophius posted:

Yeh it was good because it solved a lot of issues but I guess I liked the tactical aspect of how each method worked. Like WH being able to slip behind a hyperspace and they take time to catch up. I loved choke pointing hyperspace civs or making a fast strike fleet to cripple a WH network. There were problems, certainly but I feel a lot of fun was lost that outweighed the problems.

The fun things you are pointing out are all still possible in the game though? In fact they're even better now because you can always choke point instead of only occasionally, and you can use wormholes, jump drives and gateways to instantly jump past a choke point. The issue was that warp was better by far than any other option and so they removed it specifically to encourage the stuff you like.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

Yes, it's like a lava lamp.



Warp was trash, Wormhole was by far the superior option because it was fast.

stopgap1
Jul 27, 2013


The only game I ever played that I feel did a good job with different propulsion options was Sword of the Stars. excellent game, balanced travel types by changing the efficiency of different races ships. strong recommend pretending the second game never existed.

Kaal
May 22, 2002

JEREMY CORBYN BULLIED MY NAZI GRANDPA IN PRIMARY SCHOOL



stopgap1 posted:

The only game I ever played that I feel did a good job with different propulsion options was Sword of the Stars. excellent game, balanced travel types by changing the efficiency of different races ships. strong recommend pretending the second game never existed.

Yeah the SotS system did a great job of asymmetricality but I think a big part of that was that each race was defined. It'd be tricky to balance that system if you could pick and choose traits.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

I feel like wormhole stations could be brought back if they tweaked them a bit - rather than being able to just warp between the station and anywhere in the station's range, it could be a one-way trip, so ships in the system where the wormhole station is located would be able to jump out a big distance, but would have to take the long way back via hyperlanes (unless of course the place they traveled to also had a wormhole station). It could be an interesting mid-game tech, where it sort of works like a combination of jump drive and gateways, but with enough drawbacks that those late game techs are still superior choices.

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


It's a poor substitute but setting your galaxy to max wormholes keeps the game real interesting around midgame if you feel like declaring a few wars and suddenly that enemy federation is coming at you through tons of angles.

Hryme
Nov 4, 2009


Stellaris is the game that made me understand I am just a terrible consumer with no judgement at all. Every DLC release I was like "Hmm, maybe this one will make the game fun?". Then I bought it and 10 hours later shelved the game again with no real enjoyment. Why did I keep doing that? I have no clue.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

If you find out tell me, my wallet will thank you

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Hryme posted:

Stellaris is the game that made me understand I am just a terrible consumer with no judgement at all. Every DLC release I was like "Hmm, maybe this one will make the game fun?". Then I bought it and 10 hours later shelved the game again with no real enjoyment. Why did I keep doing that? I have no clue.

Same.

Except stacking a ton of mods on top of it to try and make it more enjoyable but realize that the base skeleton is the part that's broken and something mods can't fix for the most part.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

I'm even worse, I actually play the game a ton. Steam tells me I have put something ridiculous like 1700 hours into this game.

Complications
Jun 19, 2014



Hryme posted:

Stellaris is the game that made me understand I am just a terrible consumer with no judgement at all. Every DLC release I was like "Hmm, maybe this one will make the game fun?". Then I bought it and 10 hours later shelved the game again with no real enjoyment. Why did I keep doing that? I have no clue.

Federations DLC

All about diplomacy, creates envoys for doing diplomacy better, builds federations into something more than a loose alliance, even makes a galactic UN

Can't combine federations, can't pull somebody from one federation into another, can't break up federations, federations are still the end of diplomacy and the beginning of total war as the only relationship between power blocs

sighhhhhhh

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001





Pillbug

Hryme posted:

Stellaris is the game that made me understand I am just a terrible consumer with no judgement at all. Every DLC release I was like "Hmm, maybe this one will make the game fun?". Then I bought it and 10 hours later shelved the game again with no real enjoyment. Why did I keep doing that? I have no clue.

feel empty, spend money, dopamine hit, hit fades, feel empty...

THANKS STEAM

Hryme
Nov 4, 2009


I may be on the way to being more aware now though. I have stopped myself from buying Frontier Pass for Civ 6 by starting the game and playing it a bit to remind myself that I am tired of that game.

Electro-Boogie Jack
Nov 22, 2006
bagger mcguirk sent me.


Complications posted:

Federations DLC

All about diplomacy, creates envoys for doing diplomacy better, builds federations into something more than a loose alliance, even makes a galactic UN

Can't combine federations, can't pull somebody from one federation into another, can't break up federations, federations are still the end of diplomacy and the beginning of total war as the only relationship between power blocs

sighhhhhhh

It's like they got halfway through adding the basics and then hit the publish button with the other 50% still missing. After they've created envoys and made some functions for them, how hard would it be to also let them improve or damage relations between other empires? How hard would it be to assign them to mediation in a war?

Everyone asked about this stuff in the Federations Q&A and they just replied with "huh, hadn't thought of that" and that's it. If they ever get around to filling in the missing 50% of each expansion, this game would rule.

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And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


If this game didn't have mod support I'd have bailed forever ago. It's near-Bethesda levels of relying on the players to actually finish developing the game.

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