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QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

It's a handshake in progress


It's fair to say that the bio and robot ascensions deserve more story support, transcendence is just really cool overall

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HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011



I just wish that modifying pops when Bio could be done automatically, like with assimilation.

Having 1 pop of your main species immigrate/be absorbed back into your empire which leads to a leader pop getting spawned in the pool without Erudite and other leader bonuses, and needing 1 month of the 2k+/month Society research to stop for 1 pop is mildly aggravating.

Also biomodding all the species you can absorb individually.

Let me designate a template I want used that costs x society per month per pop done, rather than with the Project system.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



it's sort of emblematic of a lot of stellaris's problems that such an obvious kludge as "genemodding generates a weird special project that immediately expires, unless you click the button to activate it, even after you clicked a button to spawn the project in the first place" was ever implemented that way, and that it has stuck around for years. why doesn't it have its own interface tab? for that matter, why is assimilation a buggy, opaque set of policies instead of a real part of the interface?

so much is accomplished through scripting that you start to wonder just how many people on the stellaris team are even capable of/allowed to implement features in the actual code

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Jazerus posted:

it's sort of emblematic of a lot of stellaris's problems that such an obvious kludge as "genemodding generates a weird special project that immediately expires, unless you click the button to activate it, even after you clicked a button to spawn the project in the first place" was ever implemented that way, and that it has stuck around for years. why doesn't it have its own interface tab? for that matter, why is assimilation a buggy, opaque set of policies instead of a real part of the interface?

so much is accomplished through scripting that you start to wonder just how many people on the stellaris team are even capable of/allowed to implement features in the actual code

It's actually somewhat jarring that one of the advertised features of Nemesis is quite obviously a reused dig site, honestly.

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
ROCKET JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Yami Fenrir posted:

You got it backwards.

Robotics and Genetics are mechanically great, if a bit boring.

Psychics have way too much RNG and is the only ascension that actually punishes you randomly.

I'm a-okay with gambling on the psychic casino because I can pair the shields with ether drake scales and have extra unkillable ships that the space gods will occasionally buff to become even stronger.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Jazerus posted:

it's sort of emblematic of a lot of stellaris's problems that such an obvious kludge as "genemodding generates a weird special project that immediately expires, unless you click the button to activate it, even after you clicked a button to spawn the project in the first place" was ever implemented that way, and that it has stuck around for years. why doesn't it have its own interface tab? for that matter, why is assimilation a buggy, opaque set of policies instead of a real part of the interface?
Another fun facet: You can either assimilate unborged pops automatically or you can change your borged citizen's default rights, but not both.

Because if you set Default Rights to Assimilation, everything else hard-locks to "doesn't loving matter, pop won't do anything because it's waiting to be borged", and if you don't, there's no way to cyborgify naturals who weren't present for the initial Flesh Is Weak event without going down the species tab and doing it one by one for every natural species variant. But if you do, since Default Rights now only deal with the pre-assimilated, if you want to change living conditions or literally anything else, you've got to go down the species tab and do it one by one for every single species and every species variant. Fun!

CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Mar 27, 2021

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012



LEX mod question:

What does the Psionic Harmonizer do?

What does the Psionic Starbreaker do? Aside from suicide bomb the target so hard my game crashes lol

edit: lmao

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



CapnAndy posted:

Another fun facet: You can either assimilate unborged pops automatically or you can change your borged citizen's default rights, but not both.

Because if you set Default Rights to Assimilation, everything else hard-locks to "doesn't loving matter, pop won't do anything because it's waiting to be borged", and if you don't, there's no way to cyborgify naturals who weren't present for the initial Flesh Is Weak event without going down the species tab and doing it one by one for every natural species variant. But if you do, since Default Rights now only deal with the pre-assimilated, if you want to change living conditions or literally anything else, you've got to go down the species tab and do it one by one for every single species and every species variant. Fun!

you also can't have more than one assimilation type, which doesn't come up in vanilla but is a real problem for multiple ascension mods. ever wanted to play a psionic cyborg empire that can also de-hivemind gestalt pops? well, you can't, because you always keep the first assimilation type that you get and can't apply the others.

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant



tbf that's working as intended, at the point where you're doing three different kinds of assimilation you've won the game

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE


CapnAndy posted:

Because if you set Default Rights to Assimilation, everything else hard-locks to "doesn't loving matter, pop won't do anything because it's waiting to be borged", and if you don't, there's no way to cyborgify naturals who weren't present for the initial Flesh Is Weak event without going down the species tab and doing it one by one for every natural species variant. But if you do, since Default Rights now only deal with the pre-assimilated, if you want to change living conditions or literally anything else, you've got to go down the species tab and do it one by one for every single species and every species variant. Fun!

Same for Psychics. And if you want to uplift any new conquests? Have fun wrecking your economy!

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Relevant Tangent posted:

tbf that's working as intended, at the point where you're doing three different kinds of assimilation you've won the game

no you can absolutely drag the game out and make the AI, crises, etc. strong enough to resist you even in that kind of circumstance, with mods. given the vast tech and perk trees you can assemble, doing multiple ascensions can be just a starting point! anyway i never do all three ascensions because that's boring, but i do like adding together bio and psy ascensions and it's very dumb that i can't de-hive pops simply because i am also psychic. assimilation is an opaque system implemented into a part of the interface too small to contain all of the associated details and essentially unmoddable, too. even if you could mod in new assimilation types, the compatibility issue would be a real obstacle to anyone actually wanting to use such a mod.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Is there any way to create a star for the Gigaforge in Gigaconstructs? I think it needs a neutron star.

fashionly snort
Apr 14, 2006


Pillbug

As a spiritualist empire Is there a good reason to outlaw robot workers? Yeah you take a faction influence hit if you don’t, but the population-growth you’d lose out on by appeasing them seems so much worse

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

It's a handshake in progress


In evil empires I pretty much always go with genetic ascension, that way I can make better use of the filthy xenos, either as better slaves or more-delicious burgers or both

Bobfly
Apr 22, 2007
EGADS!

ulmont posted:

Same for Psychics. And if you want to uplift any new conquests? Have fun wrecking your economy!

Psionics you can at least gene mod onto the rest of their species once you have a few pops who've awakened.

Spanish Matlock
Sep 6, 2004

If you want to play the I-didn't-know-this-was-a-hippo-bar game with me, that's fine.

Honestly we could adapt the archaeology system for psionic, genetic, and robot ascensions. Random events for everyone!

"Sir, while trying to engineer a tastier Radhika we accidentally created tribbles."

"A unit of organic anti-assimilation terrorists in red hats has appeared on our capital planet."

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




I'm having such a nice time with this game, bumbling along on easy settings, no idea what I'm doing. It's all new to me. Galactic council? Sounds awesome! Just made buddies with a species that likes dry worlds so I can finally colonise these stupid deserts all over my space. Learning about psionics! I'm sure nothing bad can come of that!

Everything is lovely when you pick that adorable little big-eyed lizard species portrait. Even the species next door that keeps trying to hate me loves me because I bombard them with envoys.

Black Pants
Jan 16, 2008

Such comfortable, magical pants!

Lipstick Apathy

fashionly snort posted:

As a spiritualist empire Is there a good reason to outlaw robot workers? Yeah you take a faction influence hit if you don’t, but the population-growth you’d lose out on by appeasing them seems so much worse

Base level robots are absolutely useless but go for it if you want.

Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.

There's little stopping you from going full Synthetic even as a Spiritualist other than the fact it guarantees a rebellion. Still, Droids are good enough.

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead







If I have a Colossus, can I declare war on an empire without claiming everything in sight, and still keep the stuff I conquer with a white peace? Because waiting for enough influence to expand in Conquest wars is exhausting.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

Life Before Death
Strength Before Weakness
Journey Before Destination


Infinite Karma posted:

If I have a Colossus, can I declare war on an empire without claiming everything in sight, and still keep the stuff I conquer with a white peace? Because waiting for enough influence to expand in Conquest wars is exhausting.
Yes

Staltran
Jan 3, 2013



Fallen Rib

Black Pants posted:

Base level robots are absolutely useless but go for it if you want.

??? Do you have no farming or mining districts??

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
ROCKET JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Black Pants posted:

Base level robots are absolutely useless but go for it if you want.

The hell they are. You're adding a secondary form of pop growth, that is the furthest thing from useless.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



Black Pants posted:

Base level robots are absolutely useless but go for it if you want.

That has got to be the worst take in this thread's entire 50,000 post history

Omnicarus
Jan 16, 2006



Black Pants posted:

Base level robots are absolutely useless but go for it if you want.

Agreed but they are ok if you are going for a lot of mineral or alloy income, which itself is kind of a phyrric victory though

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Omnicarus posted:

Agreed but they are ok if you are going for a lot of mineral or alloy income, which itself is kind of a phyrric victory though

"Robots are bad"
"Going for the most important income is a phyrric victory"

Are these paid actors or is it opposite day or something? What is going on rn?

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

It's a handshake in progress


Yami Fenrir posted:

"Robots are bad"
"Going for the most important income is a phyrric victory"

Are these paid actors or is it opposite day or something? What is going on rn?

When I read those posts I had to check to make sure that April Fool's Day is next week, and not today.

Basic robots are one of the biggest power boosts in the game hands down, the timing of getting that tech can mean the difference between struggling and snowballing.

Chef Boyardeez Nuts
Sep 9, 2011

You're not getting another fucking dime from us, Lowtax

Accretionist posted:

LEX mod question:

What does the Psionic Harmonizer do?

What does the Psionic Starbreaker do? Aside from suicide bomb the target so hard my game crashes lol

edit: lmao

What did it do? I didn't test it because of the starbreaker force quitting the universe.

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019



does anyone have a detailed writeup of the various modjam origins?

Complications
Jun 19, 2014



twistedmentat posted:

Is there any way to create a star for the Gigaforge in Gigaconstructs? I think it needs a neutron star.

If I recall correctly you can use the Fusion Suppressor to make a neutron star out of any otherwise normal one and then delete the structure before you go further. You may want to do some cheating to check before just taking my word for it though. You can also use it to create black holes.

Complications fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Mar 28, 2021

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Complications posted:

If I recall correctly you can use the Fusion Suppressor to make a neutron star out of any otherwise normal one and then delete the structure before you go further. You may want to do some cheating to check before just taking my word for it though. You can also use it to create black holes.

Yea i thought that but it won't let me remove the structure at that point, i have to go to black hole level before dismanteling it.

Also something that really annoys me about gigastructures is that its not clear what a bunch of stuff is. Like it really should say that the civ that lives in the middle of the galaxy has 100 million power worth of ships when it awakens. The Space Cats at least say "hey this is a huge challange for great players".

Bobfly
Apr 22, 2007
EGADS!

It kind of does, though, if you hover over the difficulty blips on the configuration menu

Shadowlyger
Nov 5, 2009

FREE
HONG
KONG


Complications posted:

If I recall correctly you can use the Fusion Suppressor to make a neutron star out of any otherwise normal one and then delete the structure before you go further. You may want to do some cheating to check before just taking my word for it though. You can also use it to create black holes.

If you have the tech for it, this megastructure SHOULD give you an option to black hole OR supernova, with the supernova leaving a tiny neutron star afterwards.

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019



okay so i played through some of the modjam origins and here's an idea of what they actually are:

Absolute Zero

Something is leeching the energy from your star and in twenty-two years from the start of the game, your homeworld will freeze over. Can you figure out what's going on and some way to stop it?

It looks cool and the null star is neat. Unfortunately, the writing is pretty poor, and the story just kind of ends with the reveal that you can communicate with the empire that started the crazy science experiment - but don't. It really does just stop there, and I even opened up the files of the mod to make sure something wasn't bugged. So, in that sense, it's a bit disappointing. And, as mentioned, the writing is poor.

It's not exactly a difficult start, but you're going to need about 3000 alloys to avert the cataclysm. You do get some neat toys from the various dig sites, however, including a unique resource from the null star. All in all, you get Null Armor (fantastic armor that reduces shield amount by a percentage), a planet cracker null weapon (turns the world frozen and creates a site for more null resource extraction), and a Super Cooler (basically, a super research institute). Additionally, you can create little megastructures around stars to get 10 energy per structure (up to five per star.)

All in all, it's okay. For an origin with such a story focus, the big weakness is the writing and lack of any interesting resolution to the story. It feels unfinished. Everything in it feels half-baked.

The Caretaker

Pretty much the opposite of the above - this one is really cool and the difference in quality is stark. Basically, there's an AI on your homeworld that's been guiding your development and providing for you, and now wishes to follow you into the stars. As you expand out into the stars, you'll need to keep it happy or it'll withdraw its assistance. You can petition it for extra resources, pops, and so on - if it likes you, it'll reward you. But it can also glitch out and have bad things happen. Who built the machine, and why?

It's a good thing the Caretaker provides for you because, by picking this origin, your species gets hit with a massive pop growth malus - but it's also worth three trait points! Otherwise, you make up for that by exchanging Unity (and food, in the case for pops) to the Caretaker for resources. The happier it is with you, the more it allows you to ask of it. The Caretaker really has a significant effect on your species - it gives you new buildings, jobs, ship components, decisions, and so on. It even has new Ascension Perks, for a sort of Caretaker-focused path.

What really surprised me about this origin is the writing - there's a lot of it, and all of it is good stuff. When you interact with it, there's a good amount of dialogue options, everything from 'Thank you so much' to 'Why do we even have to ask?' The Caretaker even responds to your Ascension Perk choices, and some of them make it very upset. This origin also comes with Caretaker related civics, allowing you to define just how your civilization relates to its AI deity. There's a lot of content in this one, up to and including a full-scale revolt and civil war with the Caretaker if it gets angry enough at you.

All in all, highly recommended. Probably the best origin in the pack.

Paradigm Shift

Your species was uplifted by one side of an ancient war. The psychic Zaxoid have been locked in a struggle with the synthetic Kellectors. It looks like if you're a machine intelligence or hive mind, you are on the side of the robots. If you're anything else, you're with the psychic bugs. Your side will ask you for favors and such to help them out. It's okay, all in all. The Kellector home system is pretty ridiculous, though, and needed to be toned down more than a few conceptual notches.

Not nearly as cool as Caretaker or Lost Spawn, but the writing is better than Absolute Zero. Kind of like a milder War in Heaven. Unsure what happens if you give multiple species this origin.

A Second Dawn

This one has a bit of a Mass Effect vibe. Your species evolved on a world where organic and synthetic life mixes freely and you begin to piece together secrets from a mysterious vault. It's let down by the writing, really, which is a bit rough (but better than Absolute Zero.) The synth-world graphics are pretty, and the events do some neat things. You also score a special building for your synth worlds which is basically a fancy research thing.

However, there are two big issues I had with it. The first of these is an early event in the story that just says 'This must be researched' before you can go any further. But it doesn't seem to involve actually researching any technology (no new tech is granted) and may just be a secret, hidden timer before allowing you to clear the blocker. If it's a hidden timer, it doesn't tell you when it has elapsed. This relates to the vault on the second synth world.

There's also a fifteen-year 'please hold for the next part of the story' element. I can't fault this on the part of the mod as such because I don't think Stellaris has ever managed to handle the passage of time well.

All in all, though, it's decent enough. Glancing through the files, it looks like there's multiple endings and seemingly a crisis associated with the origin, too.

Lost Spawn

A mysterious entity created and guided your species, before abandoning you. Solid writing, some cool little bits and pieces. Overall, pretty neat. Not much to say about it, really.

Containment Failure

This one is simpler than the others but, in a way, that's better. Restricted to machine empires, you've been contained to one world by an artificial array of moons around your homeworld - only, they've started to break down. At first, they generate minerals and then, after some time (and some events), generate alloys. Great for Determined Exterminators. An origin you could feel safe giving to the AI (unlike some of the others.)

Shielded

Another simple one. Your species starts under a shielded world, but there's a crack in it so you can slip out. You investigate the moon around your world and find out that it's basically a science observation post which you turn into a small habitat. You get the decision to leave the shield up or take it down - each one provides different benefits. Good for the AI, I imagine.

Ancient Juggernaut

You start with a juggernaut, but it's ancient and broken. You need to do a variety of projects to restore parts of its systems - what this amounts to is that you can have a mobile shipyard with some okay fleet strength pretty early on, but it's not a Great Herald situation. The juggernaut has some unique abilities, too, but it's basically self-explanatory. Again, decent to give to the AI.

Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Mar 28, 2021

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

Horizon Burning posted:

okay so i played through some of the modjam origins and here's an idea of what they actually are:

Absolute Zero

Something is leeching the energy from your star and in twenty-two years from the start of the game, your homeworld will freeze over. Can you figure out what's going on and some way to stop it?

It looks cool and the null star is neat. Unfortunately, the writing is pretty poor, and the story just kind of ends with the reveal that you can communicate with the empire that started the crazy science experiment - but don't. It really does just stop there, and I even opened up the files of the mod to make sure something wasn't bugged. So, in that sense, it's a bit disappointing. And, as mentioned, the writing is poor.

It's not exactly a difficult start, but you're going to need about 3000 alloys to avert the cataclysm. You do get some neat toys from the various dig sites, however, including a unique resource from the null star. All in all, you get Null Armor (fantastic armor that reduces shield amount by a percentage), a planet cracker null weapon (turns the world frozen and creates a site for more null resource extraction), and a Super Cooler (basically, a super research institute). Additionally, you can create little megastructures around stars to get 10 energy per structure (up to five per star.)

All in all, it's okay. For an origin with such a story focus, the big weakness is the writing and lack of any interesting resolution to the story. It feels unfinished. Everything in it feels half-baked.


They must have toned that down, then. The last (and only) time I tried Absolute Zero, you needed to build 5 separate structures, all taking 3000 alloys and 2 years to finish. I found that a little bit much for avoiding an early game cataclysm.

Also thanks about your review of Second Dawn. I was planning on trying that origin after Nemesis drops, with a machine empire. Nice to hear it's not broken or bugged!

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

My buddy and I played some of the others:

Behind the Scenes:

It's a fairly normal Origin except you have WAY more diplomatic options. Essentially what vanilla diplomacy wishes it was, probably even with Nemesis. Options include going to war with your rival when they start ANY war, for example. Or instigating wars between other people by sabotaging relations. That kind of thing.


Fleet Overlord

It is a pretty weird gimmick. Essentially, you're in control of a federation but you don't actually get to have an empire? Neither of us got far into it for that reason. It's too finnicky.


Freebooters

Basically a power fantasy-ish alternative to Void Dwellers. They have special habitats which have alloy districts and soldier districts, but are more expensive than normal ones.

The overall intent is to be playable Marauders, which it does pretty well (you even get an Ascension Perk to 'go Khan', but I never got that far). Probably a bit on the OP side but really fun.


Space Piooniers

Your species had some pre-FTL attempts at space colonization. The most notable of those are Early Habitats (Which are really, really bad but can be built as a planetary decision and later upgraded into normal habitats that notably have Industry districts like in the upcoming patch).

Story wise there isn't much but you can run into some of your species earlier attempts which have a story line attached.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

To add in to the discussion, here's what I've tried:

From the Modjam Origins:

Stellar Pioneers

Mostly what Yami Fenrir covered, but additionally I encountered a weird bug where I was able to research techs and build buildings related to the Subterranean origin from the same mod. Some planetary decisions and the related perk also showed up for me, just untakeable, due to me not having the right origin. But I could spam the Speleologist-research buildings and their upgrades like mad, giving myself a huge engineering research bonus! It was quite absurd.

I didn't use the Early Habitats that often, but even before I got into real habitats, I essentially used them to outsource alloy production away from planets so I could build more stuff producing research and unity, and eventually snowballed so hard it became ludicrous. Especially since my species was a happy, diplomatic race of xenophiles heavily geared towards science and diplomacy, we didn't even have many robots to help out until about midgame!

Still, thanks to the early habitats I was basically drowning in alloys after a certain point, and I had to suddenly scramble to massively expand mining operations to support all those alloy factories.


From Guilli's Planet Modifiers and Features:

Death World

Quite fun and a nice challenge without overdoing it. It's like a reverse lifeseeded start, as your homeworld will be so overburdened with nasty blockers like giant monster worms and acidic oceans, your starting districts will be negative, preventing you from doing much before you get the research to start cleaning house.

So you need to expand asap, or learn to deal with depending on your space-based resources until you can unfuck your homeworld.

The species I played this with was insanely strong and long-lived, and thanks to the bonuses from the Deathworlder trait, also really good at colonizing suboptimal planets and extracting tons of resources from them. I think I didn't even need to make a lot of robots, since my basic pops were already so good at everything a basic robot could do.

A little bit of genetic engineering later, and I snowballed into galactic domination, again.

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019



Libluini posted:

They must have toned that down, then. The last (and only) time I tried Absolute Zero, you needed to build 5 separate structures, all taking 3000 alloys and 2 years to finish. I found that a little bit much for avoiding an early game cataclysm.

Also thanks about your review of Second Dawn. I was planning on trying that origin after Nemesis drops, with a machine empire. Nice to hear it's not broken or bugged!

Yeah, it was only about three thousand total for me - 600 per device. So, hefty but not impossible. I liked Second Dawn a lot, it's one of my favorites of the ones I've tried. It's probably my second fave, even if the writing is a little rough and doesn't hit the potential they were going for.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Libluini posted:

To add in to the discussion, here's what I've tried:

From the Modjam Origins:

Stellar Pioneers

Mostly what Yami Fenrir covered, but additionally I encountered a weird bug where I was able to research techs and build buildings related to the Subterranean origin from the same mod. Some planetary decisions and the related perk also showed up for me, just untakeable, due to me not having the right origin. But I could spam the Speleologist-research buildings and their upgrades like mad, giving myself a huge engineering research bonus! It was quite absurd.

I didn't use the Early Habitats that often, but even before I got into real habitats, I essentially used them to outsource alloy production away from planets so I could build more stuff producing research and unity, and eventually snowballed so hard it became ludicrous. Especially since my species was a happy, diplomatic race of xenophiles heavily geared towards science and diplomacy, we didn't even have many robots to help out until about midgame!

Still, thanks to the early habitats I was basically drowning in alloys after a certain point, and I had to suddenly scramble to massively expand mining operations to support all those alloy factories.

Oh yeah, I played Subterranean too. The techs show up for every origin for some reason.

It's.. basically the same as a normal start but you get to have a million districts per planet, if you're willing to pay the influence.

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twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Bobfly posted:

It kind of does, though, if you hover over the difficulty blips on the configuration menu

It just says that they're powerful, not 20 fleets of 13million power each that instantly appear around their homeworld powerful.

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