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ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

Life Before Death
Strength Before Weakness
Journey Before Destination


I avoid having more than 10-ish planets. It is a full time job and the auto sucks.

The patch is supposed to alleviate some of that.

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stopgap1
Jul 27, 2013


I would unironically love to start out shortly pre-space flight, maybe in system only. it could be so cool. (what if you were space janissaries for a client race and got stranded when their empire blew. you could shift through the wreckage of their works while fighting a hostile native population and work to become a power on your own.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Would play Crusader King. Or a The Road Not Taken origin where you start off in a one-lane system with a couple of colonisable planets but you can't research hyperlanes until someone drops by with one/a fixed time limit passes.

That reminds me how back in the day you didn't start with colony ship tech. It was a dumb idea because colonies were also your most efficient territory gainers at the time and pop growth scaling with planets was a thing just like now just obfuscated more, but it'd neat if it worked. If space provided more resources (and maybe the guaranteed habitable planets rule was replaced with some kind of guaranteed no habitable planets rule or something) then the new pop scaling might actually make that viable.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

Pinball Jizzard posted:

So how do you guys manage things when you get upwards of 40 planets/habitats? Itís almost a full time job, does auto work well?

Auto works well as an example not to let AI control society, as a game play mechanic, not so much

My personal solution for 40+ planets is too hide everything except the youngest sectors and only look at my planets every 5-10 years. Then I spend about half an hour slowly going down the list and queuing what is needed

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.


Pillbug

After a certain point in each game, I don't manage most planets in my empire -- they're mostly useful for pop growth, maybe with some administrative offices or unity-generating buildings too. This is especially true of newly-colonized planets at that stage of the game, on which I might build a few city/nexus districts after colonization and then leave alone.

Research and food production come from ring worlds, energy from Dyson Spheres, minerals from Matter Decompressors, and alloys and consumer goods from ecumenopoles. Normal planets just grow pops for auto-migration to useful places.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

it works terribly up to the point that paradox themselves joked about it on april fools

Anias
Jun 3, 2010

It really is a lovely hat


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1764704051

Maybe take a look at this. I'm going to give it a try in my next game to see if it helps.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

It's a handshake in progress


Pinball Jizzard posted:

So how do you guys manage things when you get upwards of 40 planets/habitats? It’s almost a full time job, does auto work well?

Get planet crackers before reaching that point

Would rather turn most planets into really good mining stations

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER


Taco Defender

stopgap1 posted:

I would unironically love to start out shortly pre-space flight, maybe in system only. it could be so cool. (what if you were space janissaries for a client race and got stranded when their empire blew. you could shift through the wreckage of their works while fighting a hostile native population and work to become a power on your own.

I've always wished there were more space games that started you off pre-FTL. You could discover FTL travel by a variety of methods, either through hard research, an encounter with aliens, or discovering Prothean precursor ruins on a planet in your system or something.

Chef Boyardeez Nuts
Sep 9, 2011

You're not getting another fucking dime from us, Lowtax

If we're talking dream starts, I'd like a non-unification one where several nations start out on the same planet with a gimmick mechanic that demilitarizes the home system except for external wars, that automatically end home state wars.

I'm picturing like a U.S./China/India start.

winterwerefox
Apr 23, 2010

The next movie better not make me shave anything



Distant Worlds: Universe allowed you a pre ftl start. It was fun for me to fully develop my home system, then watch the civilian sector slow boat about my home system, as I discover jump drives and my first ftl scouts go out. Then allowing the civie ships to have ftl and watching the explosion of ships head out to the galaxy.

I really loved how you could have two branches of ships in that game. Civie ships with old, outdated tech that everyone has, so you don't give away anything to someone preying on your shipping, with barely enough power, using cheap fuel, and your military using a completely different fuel type so your civilian fleet can't choke your navy into port.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-dev-diary-208-nemesis-patch-notes.1466104/page-2#post-27419989

Some good stuff

Black Pants
Jan 16, 2008

Such comfortable, magical pants!

Lipstick Apathy

!?!?!?!?!?!?!

quote:

* Added auto-research Quality-of-Life feature.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010


Black Pants posted:

!?!?!?!?!?!?!

From the dev responses it's unlocked after researching Sapient AI. If it's QoL, why hide it behind tech?! Same as with auto-explore.

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!



Grimey Drawer

+1% habitability to medic jobs? Might clinics be worth building at last?

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Zeron posted:

From the dev responses it's unlocked after researching Sapient AI. If it's QoL, why hide it behind tech?! Same as with auto-explore.

I do understand the general gist, but to be fair, I wouldn't want Stellaris's AI determining my research until I'm pretty close to nothing but repeatable techs anyway.

EDIT: Plus there'll be a mod to unlock it at the start of the game 3 seconds after the patch hits.

scaterry
Sep 12, 2012


quote:

** Disallowed duplicate traits on species to prevent it being exploitable.

My god, they finally fixed that exploit. It only took 5 years...

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

quote:

Added game setup option to pick which End-Game Crisis you get.

Finally! This is the best change, imho

Anias
Jun 3, 2010

It really is a lovely hat


Oh hey they fixed a desync that occurred if more than one empire had the same origin. I wonder if that's why multiplayer desyncs sucked recently.

Spanish Matlock
Sep 6, 2004

If you want to play the I-didn't-know-this-was-a-hippo-bar game with me, that's fine.

Zurai posted:

I do understand the general gist, but to be fair, I wouldn't want Stellaris's AI determining my research until I'm pretty close to nothing but repeatable techs anyway.

EDIT: Plus there'll be a mod to unlock it at the start of the game 3 seconds after the patch hits.

I really feel like this is the point of both techs.

Auto-survey: "Because I don't have time to figure out which five stars in the galaxy are still surveyable"

Auto-Research: "Because I don't have time to re-click repeatable techs every month"

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

quote:

* Simplified the rules regarding what jobs robots of different tiers can work.
* * Simple robots can work all worker tier jobs.
* * Droids can work all worker and specialist jobs. If AI is outlawed, certain complex specialist jobs (such as researchers, bureaucrats, and culture workers) are unavailable to them.
* * Synthetics follow the same rules as droids, but if AI have full rights, they can also work in ruler jobs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


I'm now in that pre release phase where I get really excited because it's so close but then have to remind myself I'm gonna need to wait another few weeks for hotfixes and for all my mods to get updated.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

quote:

Planets that have been reduced to zero districts by Terravores will now shatter, with drones automatically resettled to their homeworld.

Another great change! Now I can pull out that one weird rock-based devouring swarm I made to threaten the galaxy with. Maybe with the combination of reduced total pops and an AI-empire busy eating planets, I will end up playing on large maps again??!


Edit:

Ironically, I'm still on the fence about the main features of Nemesis. In my most current run I ran into the Galaxy of Assholes problem: If there's enough bastards in your galaxy, the community won't even form. It took 100+ years in this run before the galaxy tried again. Now if you want to be the crisis, sure, you can ignore that, but people who want to be Custodians or the Galactic Empire are kind of hosed if this happens.

Imagine if this happens multiple times, if your galaxy is hostile enough: You could be facing multiple crises happening, but without a community, you'll be unable to actually become a Custodian to face them. This entire thing is terribly lopsided, imho. A bad roll of the dice and one major part of the Nemesis DLC becomes inaccessible to the player.

Libluini fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Apr 8, 2021

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011



Thatís what liberation wars and failed vassalization attempts are for!

Anias
Jun 3, 2010

It really is a lovely hat


If you cannot convene the galactic senate, you must become the senate.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

Life Before Death
Strength Before Weakness
Journey Before Destination


Robots can do technician jobs? Hallelujah

Also diplomacy mechanics suck and y'all are entirely too focused on playing as custodian.

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Apr 8, 2021

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Libluini posted:

Another great change! Now I can pull out that one weird rock-based devouring swarm I made to threaten the galaxy with. Maybe with the combination of reduced total pops and an AI-empire busy eating planets, I will end up playing on large maps again??!


Edit:

Ironically, I'm still on the fence about the main features of Nemesis. In my most current run I ran into the Galaxy of Assholes problem: If there's enough bastards in your galaxy, the community won't even form. It took 100+ years in this run before the galaxy tried again. Now if you want to be the crisis, sure, you can ignore that, but people who want to be Custodians or the Galactic Empire are kind of hosed if this happens.

Imagine if this happens multiple times, if your galaxy is hostile enough: You could be facing multiple crises happening, but without a community, you'll be unable to actually become a Custodian to face them. This entire thing is terribly lopsided, imho. A bad roll of the dice and one major part of the Nemesis DLC becomes inaccessible to the player.
Despite the name this DLC seems to be the "second half" of federations. How do you make peaceful empires engaging? What do you do if the empire is at peace? If everyone already hates you there's nothing to address.

Speaking of crisises:

* It is now possible for the endgame crisis to happen in the first 50 years of the endgame in certain circumstances. These are:
* * No living fallen empires / awakened fallen empires;
* * War in Heaven not happening, concluded, or started 15 years ago;
* * A country has researched jump drives or psi jump drives (only the Unbidden can happen in the first 50 years in this case)
* Nuked old script to randomize which crisis shows up. Now it is simply purely a random choice that is random (with the chance of any crisis happening increasing the more years pass in the endgame).

Which falls under the same umbrella of "I already own or am friends with everything now what" (answer: early crisis)

Splicer fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Apr 8, 2021

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


I hope they buy the maker of the Carrying Capacity mod a beer, the population growth changes are basically lifted straight from that mod.

Sachant
Apr 27, 2011



I'm surprised this thread hasn't changed titles in honor of the Dick update.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

Gort posted:

I hope they buy the maker of the Carrying Capacity mod a beer, the population growth changes are basically lifted straight from that mod.

... logistic eq has been used to model populations for 170 years...

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant



HelloSailorSign posted:

That’s what liberation wars and failed vassalization attempts are for!

Welcome to Xenophilic Egalitarianism you hideous monsters.

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant



bob dobbs is dead posted:

... logistic eq has been used to model populations for 170 years...

except for in Stellaris where it took a heroic modder to save the game

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Kinda surprised that they didn't change the Crime Lord Deal decision, it's a no-brainer at present.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

Relevant Tangent posted:

except for in Stellaris where it took a heroic modder to save the game

its a symptom of:

1. the core of games is all math
2. gamedevs basically know no more math than the genpop except they know a bit of kinematics and dynamics and some linalg

verhulst eq is a soln to a diffeq and so has a hugh chance to never have been featured in a gamedevs education

you used to have more fuckin weirdos with weirder educations in games but nowadays those peeps go into regular software dev for the 2x salary and 0.5x hours

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

Splicer posted:

Despite the name this DLC seems to be the "second half" of federations. How do you make peaceful empires engaging? What do you do if the empire is at peace? If everyone already hates you there's nothing to address.

Maybe, but I despair for the poor bastards who rely on RNG when setting up a game. If all your AI-empires are pre-selected ones set to force spawn, you can avoid issues by making sure there are enough "nice" empires around to get a galactic community.

People who just want to play the game instead of abusing it as a weird fan fiction implementation machine are basically hosed, some bad luck and now you don't get the galactic community, therefore no new toys to play with. Kind of sucks, especially since even emergency measures can take some time to go through the senate in the first place.

I think what will happen after DLC releases is that a lot of peaceful empire players will run face-first into how slow and borked the galactic community is and get disappointed.

Nemesis-players will have a lot of fun, though! This DLC is more a replacement for the community "evil" empires like devouring swarms don't get. Nemesis is nice if your empire can't interact with the galactic community in the first place, peaceful players will get nothing.

I mean, in theory you can just bruteforce Custodian and Galactic Empire by becoming so strong you can elect yourself, but at that point, who cares? If you try to play the "peaceful" part of the DLC normally, expect to get blocked until the game ends.

Edit:

Take for example, one of my latest runs: By the time the crisis showed up, all empires were already mostly working together, and the crisis got stomped so fast the galactic senate didn't even get to vote on anything crisis-related. If none of the AI-empires had thought of going down the Nemesis-route (and the way diplomacy shaked out, non would have), nothing of the new stuff would have been relevant. You'd never have noticed a difference! That's easily possible to have a game where nothing from the Nemesis-DLC will show up is kind of bad.

Not a problem for me, personally. I'm the kind of person who uses spread sheets and checklists when setting up their games, but if you e.g. just want to have some fun in a randomized game, you'll inevitably end up in runs where no-one will be the Nemesis to your Custodian. And if the galactic community sucks enough, you won't get to see any of the diplomatic stuff, either.

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!



Grimey Drawer

Gort posted:

Kinda surprised that they didn't change the Crime Lord Deal decision, it's a no-brainer at present.

Even better, they made the AI understand it too!

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

I've been playing random forever and I've literally never had problems with the Galactic Community forming.

Getting anything done in it, sure. It forming, no.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

Libluini posted:

Maybe, but I despair for the poor bastards who rely on RNG when setting up a game. If all your AI-empires are pre-selected ones set to force spawn, you can avoid issues by making sure there are enough "nice" empires around to get a galactic community.

People who just want to play the game instead of abusing it as a weird fan fiction implementation machine are basically hosed, some bad luck and now you don't get the galactic community, therefore no new toys to play with. Kind of sucks, especially since even emergency measures can take some time to go through the senate in the first place.

I think what will happen after DLC releases is that a lot of peaceful empire players will run face-first into how slow and borked the galactic community is and get disappointed.

Nemesis-players will have a lot of fun, though! This DLC is more a replacement for the community "evil" empires like devouring swarms don't get. Nemesis is nice if your empire can't interact with the galactic community in the first place, peaceful players will get nothing.

I mean, in theory you can just bruteforce Custodian and Galactic Empire by becoming so strong you can elect yourself, but at that point, who cares? If you try to play the "peaceful" part of the DLC normally, expect to get blocked until the game ends.

Edit:

Take for example, one of my latest runs: By the time the crisis showed up, all empires were already mostly working together, and the crisis got stomped so fast the galactic senate didn't even get to vote on anything crisis-related. If none of the AI-empires had thought of going down the Nemesis-route (and the way diplomacy shaked out, non would have), nothing of the new stuff would have been relevant. You'd never have noticed a difference! That's easily possible to have a game where nothing from the Nemesis-DLC will show up is kind of bad.

Not a problem for me, personally. I'm the kind of person who uses spread sheets and checklists when setting up their games, but if you e.g. just want to have some fun in a randomized game, you'll inevitably end up in runs where no-one will be the Nemesis to your Custodian. And if the galactic community sucks enough, you won't get to see any of the diplomatic stuff, either.

the dlc is an opt in subscription, stellaris is an opt in subscription game. thats basically how paradox games shake out economically. so the free portions can only exist if peeps buy the dlc, 0 chance the free changes will fail to affect anyones game

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

bob dobbs is dead posted:

the dlc is an opt in subscription, stellaris is an opt in subscription game. thats basically how paradox games shake out economically. so the free portions can only exist if peeps buy the dlc, 0 chance the free changes will fail to affect anyones game

thanks, but nothing of this addresses my point: people are paying for the possibility of gaining nothing

I just wanted to point out that it's weird how you could theoretically end up in entire game runs where you paid for nothing, as none of the paid content you paid for will show up

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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

Libluini posted:

thanks, but nothing of this addresses my point: people are paying for the possibility of gaining nothing

I just wanted to point out that it's weird how you could theoretically end up in entire game runs where you paid for nothing, as none of the paid content you paid for will show up

it says on second read of feature list that they're gonna gate some of the espionage mechanics (as opposed to first contact mechanics) behind dlc

and a shipset

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