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PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

Yes, it's like a lava lamp.



ZypherIM posted:

I believe fleets prioritize retreating back to their home base, and then shipyards, and then other upgraded bases (I could be wrong on that, but seems to be the behavior I see)

That agrees with my experience as well. If they have no unoccupied star bases left, they will retreat to their home system (which catches many an inexperienced player off-guard)

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LordMune
Nov 21, 2006

Helim needed to be invisible.


Anno posted:

Can you talk at all about how this is set up? Like was this splitting the current team into two parts? Or hiring/shifting around to make the Custodian team? Both?

Between this and CK3 it seems like PDS is staffing up a bit internally for ongoing development.

I can certainly synthesize the information that is already out there... PDS Green (responsible for Stellaris) has been staffing up and PDS Arctic is supporting/being integrated by us. The team is much bigger now (though still smaller than one might reasonably expect), and we have a lot of new people from a variety of backgrounds ó this coupled with better (and just more) processes in place on a studio level means you shouldn't expect a meteoric rise in output just yet.

The Custodian and non-Custodian teams are both made up of old hands and newcomers alike, no outwardly intuitive or pre-existing split is reflected in the team make-up. The Custodian team is perhaps best described an organizational concept under the umbrella of the full Stellaris team. The idea is that there will always be a Custodian team concerned with improving the game as players are experiencing it right now, but any given developer isn't going to be consigned to the Tech Debt Dungeon or Paid Feature Grindstone forever; there will be some reshuffling between major releases. I also expect we may see temporary hybrid sub-teams cropping up at times, as the Custodians may or may not have content and fixes to sneak into DLC-associated patches etc. We'll see how things develop.

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

The non-Custodian team needs a better nickname. How about Crisis?

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010



That Custodian team sounds awesome, and I'm looking forward to updated pre-existing features. Additional tradition trees sounds fun, but I'm a little worried there will be one or two must haves, and then a couple of completely ignored except by the AI trees.

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011



Grimey Drawer

isndl posted:

The non-Custodian team needs a better nickname. How about Crisis?

I like it. The Custodian team defends and preserves the stability of the game while the Crisis team continually brings in new stuff that breaks it

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

ZypherIM posted:

Note that unless you're one of the extremely rare competetive multiplayer types, none of this matters in the slightest. You don't need to be super cutting edge optimal.
This is a very important thing. Other than a few specific rules of thumb unless you're running GA with bonus crisis difficulty you can pretty much build whatever you like and just make sure you have more number than the other guy.

The rules of thumb are:
1) Run either a mix of anti-shield/anti-armour weapons OR disruptors/arc lightning, not both. You can add carriers and missiles to taste to either.
2) Have some carriers or some corvettes and destroyers to handle corvette swarms
3) Otherwise build as many as you can of the biggest ships you can

Red Crown posted:

Gameplay 101 question: is there any way to disengage from a fight that isn't the emergency FTL retreat? I just lost 100% of my first game's fleet to a space monster because I couldn't figure out how to leave.
You didn't ask, but if you click on that system and click the little picture of a ship you can set that system to verboten, preventing your fleets from pathing suicide runs through it later.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Fur20 posted:

i had 20v/15d/10c/7b i don't know maybe my comps just suck

speaking of emergency ftl retreat, im still fairly salty about how difficult it is logistically to attack into enemy territory because they just blink out and there's no way to tell where or when they'll respawn, and what rules the game uses to determine what areas are still valid for respawning. i'd also like a way to make it less likely that an individual ship will retreat, and a pony, and also three more wishes.
Do you have Apocalypse? There are Titans with auras that reduce disengagement chance. Try to force major confrontations at black holes, they also reduce disengagement chance. You can also put modules on your own stations to reduce disengagement chance.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jun 7, 2021

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant



binge crotching posted:

That Custodian team sounds awesome, and I'm looking forward to updated pre-existing features. Additional tradition trees sounds fun, but I'm a little worried there will be one or two must haves, and then a couple of completely ignored except by the AI trees.

Have you tried any of the current expanded traditions mods? There's a ton of flavorful and impactful changes that can be made without making any specific tree required or worthless. Turning your empire into a haven for pirates can be mechanically balanced against turning it into a haven for occultists and charlatans.

Electro-Boogie Jack
Nov 22, 2006
bagger mcguirk sent me.


Fur20 posted:

i wasted like 30 years in my last abandoned game because the hivemind i kept trying to vassalize had various mysterious benefactors on the opposite sides of the galaxy, preventing war weariness from building.

This is one part of the war system that really feels like it needs some adjustments. When you're done capturing every planet and system of a vassal, I don't know why you can't just declare the process complete, even if their allies want to keep fighting you. They should have to fight you and your vassal at that point, and unless they have plans to actively recover territory, they should generally decide that this thing is over and give up.

Sometimes the white peace option gives you most of what you want, but sometimes it returns systems you've conquered (often the homeworld, I think?) to your would-be vassal, which... sucks.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Electro-Boogie Jack posted:

This is one part of the war system that really feels like it needs some adjustments. When you're done capturing every planet and system of a vassal, I don't know why you can't just declare the process complete, even if their allies want to keep fighting you. They should have to fight you and your vassal at that point, and unless they have plans to actively recover territory, they should generally decide that this thing is over and give up.

Sometimes the white peace option gives you most of what you want, but sometimes it returns systems you've conquered (often the homeworld, I think?) to your would-be vassal, which... sucks.
This would significantly reduce the effectiveness of making friends over just blobbing. Yes you have captured all one empire's territory, but that's only a fraction of the alliance that does not want you to hold that territory. Their plans to recover the territory are to drag you into a forever war in the hopes that your willpower (represented by war exhaustion) runs out before they run out of ships. Look at it like this: Imagine you have 50% of the galaxy and the other 50% was a mish mash of people allied against you. If a war started and they occupied 10% of your blob then would you feel that "unless you have plans to actively recover territory, you should generally decide that this thing is over and give up"? If not, why should it work the other way?

There's definitely a discussion to be had about how status quo in subjugation wars works though, since that would be the situation where you lose your 10% normally.

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem

Probably if you've full-occupied someone in a war to vassalize them then a status quo peace should give you the full vassalization instead of arbitrarily making you give them back one planet.

Electro-Boogie Jack
Nov 22, 2006
bagger mcguirk sent me.


Splicer posted:

This would significantly reduce the effectiveness of making friends over just blobbing. Yes you have captured all one empire's territory, but that's only a fraction of the alliance that does not want you to hold that territory.

Right, but if I'm holding that territory, I don't know why I'm giving any of it back during a status quo peace. It should be incumbent on that alliance to retake some of that territory, and I've had too many games where some distant empires who haven't participated in the war at all are somehow preventing me from finishing the subjugation. Let me switch that new vassal over and continue the war against them if they really want to.

Jabor posted:

Probably if you've full-occupied someone in a war to vassalize them then a status quo peace should give you the full vassalization instead of arbitrarily making you give them back one planet.

this, yes.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...


Grimey Drawer

Electro-Boogie Jack posted:

Right, but if I'm holding that territory, I don't know why I'm giving any of it back during a status quo peace. It should be incumbent on that alliance to retake some of that territory, and I've had too many games where some distant empires who haven't participated in the war at all are somehow preventing me from finishing the subjugation. Let me switch that new vassal over and continue the war against them if they really want to.
this, yes.

Well, the logic is if you agree to a status quo peace, you give everything back you haven't both claimed and occupied. This of course doesn't work with vassalization, since it's kind of binary: Either you vassalize someone or don't. I'd argue the "I want to keep the occupied territory" is akin to just continuing the war. If the enemy accepts you holding the space, that's called "winning".

The idea to use a status quo peace to just win anyway in a vassalization war is really funny though. It's kind of obvious it can't work like that or you could just abuse this against the AI all day long. Until the next update simply re-balances the AI to never, ever take a status quo peace and now things are even more tedious. Better to leave it like it works now.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Libluini posted:

Well, the logic is if you agree to a status quo peace, you give everything back you haven't both claimed and occupied. This of course doesn't work with vassalization, since it's kind of binary: Either you vassalize someone or don't. I'd argue the "I want to keep the occupied territory" is akin to just continuing the war. If the enemy accepts you holding the space, that's called "winning".

The idea to use a status quo peace to just win anyway in a vassalization war is really funny though. It's kind of obvious it can't work like that or you could just abuse this against the AI all day long. Until the next update simply re-balances the AI to never, ever take a status quo peace and now things are even more tedious. Better to leave it like it works now.

Normally vassalization does work in a status quo peace though - what it does is create a new empire of the same species you are trying to vassalize, which owns all the territory that you have occupied, and you vassalize them while leaving the original empire as independent (but smaller). The issue people are having is that if you fully occupy the target empire, the status quo logic of "split off a new empire, leave the old one independent" still kicks in, arbitrarily giving back a planet so the old empire will be able to keep existing after the war, even though this doesn't really make sense because the status quo is effectively "I have won in every way that matters".

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jun 7, 2021

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



edit: eh, we're all just agreeing with each other here. It's all suboptimal and slightly weird.

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

IMO you shouldn't be able to vassal part of a big alliance just by blitzing them, but you should start getting ticking warscore after you occupy most/all of them. If the alliance is able to effectively fight you then you have to keep working at it, if they are just chilling on the other side of the galaxy you tick up to 100% and take them.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!


Darkrenown posted:

IMO you shouldn't be able to vassal part of a big alliance just by blitzing them, but you should start getting ticking warscore after you occupy most/all of them. If the alliance is able to effectively fight you then you have to keep working at it, if they are just chilling on the other side of the galaxy you tick up to 100% and take them.

this is what kept happening to me, my vassalization target was my neighbor but their guarantors had two or three players between them and us, with closed borders so they couldn't even get close. they were at least 5 years away by sublight travel. but noooooo, you can't take over the player they're protecting even though they can't do poo poo, because i also couldn't do poo poo to them.

tfw you look at the surrender threshold thinking oh i control everything and there's aboslutely nothing left to fight but it's like -300

Fur20 fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jun 7, 2021

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



I mean you're all basically describing how it's done in Crusader Kings, where things are actually rather sane+intuitive in terms of wargoals, compared to this abomination we got when it was lifted. Like, why is my number going up in a "Us vs Them" ticker a bad thing, whoops?!

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010



Relevant Tangent posted:

Have you tried any of the current expanded traditions mods? There's a ton of flavorful and impactful changes that can be made without making any specific tree required or worthless. Turning your empire into a haven for pirates can be mechanically balanced against turning it into a haven for occultists and charlatans.

I haven't, because I always assumed they were either stupidly broken and overpowered, or something like Giga Engineering where there are 18 million things, which all end up being OP as well.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



binge crotching posted:

I haven't, because I always assumed they were either stupidly broken and overpowered, or something like Giga Engineering where there are 18 million things, which all end up being OP as well.

expanded traditions and expanded perks both err toward too weak instead of too powerful, in general. most of the vanilla traditions and perks are stronger than the added ones, but the added ones help you further specialize into particular niches instead of having every empire end up with similar bonuses

Black Pants
Jan 16, 2008

Such comfortable, magical pants!

Lipstick Apathy

They're great little flavour things, and even change depending on what sort of empire you're playing. ..I still tend to go for Expansion and then Supremacy first though.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

The tradition trees have a neat bit of design where, since the last perk unlocks the finisher and ascension slot, theoretically the perk you left to last, and presumably therefore want least, is still very exciting.

Unfortunately the tree structure works against this since sometimes the one you want least is a prereq for one you want more.

It'd be neat if that was tidied up a bit.

winterwerefox
Apr 23, 2010

The next movie better not make me shave anything



here is one bit of drama going on in my new empire.

Galactic northwest, skirting the starless expanse looking for planets. about 3-4 jumps past the edge of claimed space. My science ship had to leave the corvettes escorting it behind, thanks to outrunning them. Until science advances, he is exploring blind. they turned back to upgrade engines, shields and weapons, having the scout sensors that helped protect the science ship. This would be a decade long trip back to home station. New engines would make this trip take 4 years on the return.

The science ship finds a airless world with evidence of information age, modern cities built over it, and then picks up power signs underground. Turns out the world had some cosmic bullshit happen and strip the air from it. my scientists explore the cave, and find over a billion cryopods filled with iceplanet pig people.

over the next 15 years, they extract the cryopods, move them to a planet that is cold, and already shares a system with two other of my colonies, with an upgraded starport, to help with logistics in settling these people. Waking of these people goes without a hitch, they settle in and start building infrastructure for their new homeworld. Plans are drawn up for them to colonize about 5-6 other worlds deemed too cold for my people.
One of them finds an ancient terraforming device on this new world and turns it on.
This device terraforms the planet by melting the ice, raising the temps of the world, and turning what was an ice planet into an ocean world. and mutating a shitton of creatures into murderous insane monsters that overrun the colony defenses and start killing the pig people

the other two planets in system start recruiting soldiers as fast as they can, and manage to fight off the mutants.

so things settle down again. cities are built, mining, farming giant mushroom forests, oceanic tidal generators. a robotics plant.

Then a super volcano goes off, destroying most everything that was built.
these pig people are the unluckiest people ive ever encountered

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



That's an amazing bit of narrative.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


I don't think it's ever worth it to turn on the terraforming machine, personally.

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!


Clarste posted:

I don't think it's ever worth it to turn on the terraforming machine, personally.

Thatís a fair assessment, but if nobody ever did how would we get these stories?!

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011


when presented with a button you need to press it, for science, you see.

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



Not to restart that fight, but the consequences just aren't that bad - losing a planet a year or two into colonizing it isn't going to be the downfall of your civ.

I almost always slam that button.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

It's a handshake in progress


Sloober posted:

when presented with a button you need to press it, for science, you see.

This is correct

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Captain Monkey posted:

Not to restart that fight, but the consequences just aren't that bad - losing a planet a year or two into colonizing it isn't going to be the downfall of your civ.

I almost always slam that button.

I mean, yes, but the benefits aren't that good either. I'll slam the button too if I don't care about that particular planet, but basically I go in expecting it to be bad.

Rockstar Massacre
Mar 2, 2009

i only have a crazy life
because i make risky decisions
from a position of
unreasonable self-confidence


If it's the founding, important species, obviously dismantle it because why would you terraform a perfect world for you?

if it's a lesser, client species, hit that button. that's why they got to join the empire to begin with.

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011



The +20% pop growth speed if you roll a Gaia makes it a great resort/gently caress planet

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 21, 2006

When there were five in the bed and we all rolled over I said nothing, because I would not fall off.

HelloSailorSign posted:

The +20% pop growth speed if you roll a Gaia makes it a great resort/gently caress planet

Wait a second, are resort planets good now?

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Bar Ran Dun posted:

Wait a second, are resort planets good now?

They're good as part of a strategy where some planets are left undeveloped as feeder/"gently caress" planets with a minimal population. Any pops that grow on those planets are funnel with immigration/pop movement to developed, core planets. Marking a feeder planet as a resort world is a good plan, especially if it's a lovely low-habitability planet with some sort of bad modifiers and/or you have a lot of extra building slots from your civics or whatever.

It's a good strategy ever since the 3.0 changes to pop growth.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling





Time to establish Fuckworld Prime

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011



There are a few other events or planet traits that increase pop growth speed as well, those could be secondary fuckresort planets given a Gaia does have that nice 10% happiness and 10% pop output bonus.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

HelloSailorSign posted:

There are a few other events or planet traits that increase pop growth speed as well, those could be secondary fuckresort planets given a Gaia does have that nice 10% happiness and 10% pop output bonus.

If you have a Gaia world, you probably want to make it a core planet unless you're already way late in the game. +happiness and +pop output are huge on a developed planet.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007


Ms Adequate posted:

Time to establish Fuckworld Prime
Let's get a little more Slaaneshi.

zonohedron
Aug 14, 2006




zonohedron posted:

Is there a way to designate a planet for refugees? They keep going to planets that don't have housing for them.

Not only can I not do that, I can't keep them from going "there's no jobs here, but the penal colony on the tomb world has jobs, so let's go there, even though it's named Bad Robot Land and is solely inhabited by robots".

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Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



Clarste posted:

I mean, yes, but the benefits aren't that good either. I'll slam the button too if I don't care about that particular planet, but basically I go in expecting it to be bad.

Hard disagree, a 25% chance of a Gaia planet is worth quite a bit up through late midgame. Iíd blow 500 alloys or whatever your colony ship costs for a chance to roll a Gaian planet pretty much always (I know there are more costs than that, but itís super easy to always be in the black on almost any difficulty unless youíre in the direct middle of a hell war).

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