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ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Electro-Boogie Jack posted:

Speaking of a weird minor one, I haven't run into this before but the other day I colonized a planet with 3 presapient pops on it and now I seem to have a permanent -3 open jobs?
There's a dumb display issue where any pop working a "free" job gets counted as employed but the total number of jobs available doesn't go up. So if you have 12 robot servants or livestock slaves and 2 unfilled specialists jobs it'll show you as having -10 jobs available

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ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Gort posted:

If you're thinking that colonising, conquering and managing the entire galaxy sounds like a chore, well, it is.
Consider force-vassalizing everyone and not integrating. Even if you get +300 threat from a massive conquest it's not hard to get them into loyal territory after a couple decades, especially if you gift them some alloys for +100 relations. They'll spend them building a fleet that protects you anyway.

And even if they're disloyal they very rarely actually rebel since they need a sponsoring empire to also attack you.

ShadowHawk fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Dec 9, 2019

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I hate having vassals because they invariably find a way to claim a single system halfway across the galaxy that they then somehow "occupy" despite my fleet taking the system then they get it after the war which makes the borders ugly as gently caress and break my starbase chain.
I believe vassals don't usually make new claims. If you can spot an existing claim before the war one solution is to double-claim the system to override their claim.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


LonsomeSon posted:

Good thread title, or best thread title?!
Best.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Major Isoor posted:

Speaking of robots, if I was to say, have a big ol' barren world packed with robots mining minerals for me...and they became a machine uprising...how difficult would it be to quell the uprising? (Especially if that planet is my primary source of minerals) As in like, would I be able to have my fleet and army parked on the planet and immediately bombard/attack it before things get out of hand.

And would the planet immediately turn to their side, or would a battle between my ground forces and theirs ensue? I hope it's the latter, else there wouldn't really be much point in me investing in a good garrison.

Finally, would only the one planet I have robots on turn? Since what if I have other planets/habitats in the system without any robots? Surely they'll still remain under my control, at the onset at least
Frustratingly, the number of actual robots you have is entirely irrelevant to the AI rebellion event. You can have 0 robot pops on a planet, and the game will flip a coin and put it under robot control. Then it will generate a bunch of free machine pops and put them on the planet to start eradicating/enslaving your citizens.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Major Isoor posted:

Argh, that's annoying. Well, I guess if I go down that route (instead of slaves/prisoners toiling away in my mines) then I'll REALLY have to make sure I don't fall victim to the machine uprising.
Just don't research synths (or the final physics computer). Outlaw AI after you get droids and it'll stop appearing as a research option. Only other way is to get the cybernetic ascension (you don't need the second step).

Synths tech only gives your robots +2 points or whatever, it's not the most amazing tech and it's definitely not worth the civil war you sometimes have to fight.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Yami Fenrir posted:

Can't you just give them citizen rights to stop any rebellion?

I usually just do that and have never seen a rebellion.
Yeah but if you do that they start demanding consumer goods and more amenities.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Captain Invictus posted:

yep, I had a game where I was drowning in influence and did this, suppressed the spiritualist faction and promoted the materialist faction. after like 50 years materialists were at 75% and spiritualists were at like 5%, so it DOES eventually work somewhat, but it will take loving forever to do so
Vanilla has pops shift ethics only once in a hundred years.

Ethics attraction only reasonably affects the percentage of new pops that spawn with an ethic, which they effectively have forever.


This is clearly a bug, as the game implements features like "Indoctrination" of primitives which takes longer to change their ethics than it takes to promote them to space tech.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Soarer posted:

I've been out of the loop and distracted with other games for bit. What's this "incident"?
The subcontractor stole all the art assets from other games. People noticed.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


I decided to "use" the ship design element of the game and got mining drone lasers and upgraded plasma cannons. I put them on my defense platforms and waited for the AI to attack my fortress world where I had my similarly equipped fleet.

Only to discover that, despite all the platforms and ships I'd built, 80% of my fleet power was in my starbase, which ignored the existence of my upgraded weapons to instead use the crappy level 2 lasers and mass drivers.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Is there a pop cap on planets or do they eventually just choke as pop grows beyond the capacity to build housing and provide jobs?
Planets will stop growing if you exceed the housing limit by a certain percentage. You're most likely to hit this if you neglect a new colony by not building any housing at all, otherwise you have to be quite in the negative on available housing. I think you can still build robots in that case, though.

There's nothing stopping you from force migrating even more people onto an overcrowded planet, but you'll take further stability penalties. Since stability raises output of everything, it's generally not worth it.


The weirdest gamey exploit with overcrowding/unemployment is to get all the +pop growth due to migration bonuses (diplomacy tree, corvee system, pop trait). Then you overcrowd a few planets such that your pops try to emigrate from there to other planets you own, where you'll get a larger bonus to growth than you lose. The game is literally modelling +50% faster reproduction due to having to travel to another planet. You need to have enough spacious planets to not hit the +5 from migration cap though - the game is also perfectly happy to throw pops into the void by having -6 emigration from one planet and only +5 (max) at another.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Gadzuko posted:

I'm fairly sure cross empire migration isn't modeled at all, unless migration treaties provide a growth bonus. There's no such thing as real pop migration any more. You just lose growth from emigration and gain it from immigration, but actual pops don't move from one place to another. As far as I know migration treaties just increase the variety of pops available. The immigration system has been... dare I say... abstracted
The way migration treaties work is that they make both partners eligible migration targets. Pops that have migration disallowed still won't move. You won't lose pops, but you might lose growth if you have a lot of push due to overcrowding.

They're most relevant if your partner has a bunch of new colonies (which give them migration push), or in the late game when they're overcrowded, or if you want their pop types in your empire (such as for habitability)

The point of empire-wide migration pull bonuses is that they prevent you from losing pops (because your planets pull exceeds push) and that when pops do leave a planet they're more likely to land on yours.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Hot Karl Marx posted:

this might be a stupid question, but is there a mod that adds more "stellaris like" music to the game?
You can buy some of the DLC too

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Captain Invictus posted:

iirc the last time I had something like that happen where a khan successor had no planets, the instant someone modified their border in any way, I believe it was a determined exterminator, the entire khan successor poofed out of existence, finally recognizing it had no actual homeworld
Try gifting them a system without a planet

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Pop job calculations would probably be faster if there weren't so many different pop types.

By late game it's not uncommon to see the AI with 15 subspecies that were modified to be different for no particular reason, then dozens of aliens on every planet as well.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I stopped making species that are good at one type of resource income because any time I check to see if they are working that job when there are other species present, they're not.
The most likely cause of this is that citizen species are heavily weighted into being rulers and specialists. So your citizen race of miners will research or rule or whatever instead of mine even if you've got resident smart aliens who have a research bonus.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

As with my reply to Splicer immediately above in this post, the issue isnt that my pops are promoting - I wouldnt complain about that, the issue is that when pops of the worker stratum have no where to promote and are stuck there, they work suboptimal jobs.
Another strong possibility I've seen is if you're a robot empire and have organic slaves (or driven assimilator) -- the biologic traits seem to have no configured weights for the machine empire versions of jobs (eg, Intelligent doesn't give you +calculator weight, only researcher)

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


If indentured servants working specialist jobs are going to pay the slave consumer good upkeep instead of the specialist one, that sounds like it could be incredibly strong.

Like, you'd want a few rulers and the rest entirely slave pops.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


PiCroft posted:

So far, the governor/sector system seems to have been tweaked but not really fleshed out much (in fact its gotten worse since I can't manually create sectors anymore, really fun when you take over another empire of any appreciable size!)
You can create and rearrange sectors at any time (except the capital sector) - go to a planet and click the + button where the sector information is to make a new sector with that planet as the center. Or to remove that sector entirely if it's already one.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Yami Fenrir posted:

Destroyed and deactivated gateways are perfectly safe to keep around (they can only be used while people aren't at war with the owner, so your enemies need to conquer the systen to use it)

L-Gates on the other hand are free for all and can be used by everyone at any time once reactivated.
Your enemies can't use activated gateways either unless they control the system during a war.

Basically, no, they are not a back door unless they're L Gates

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Yami Fenrir posted:

Yes.

But the planet type ecumenopolis gives you 20% bonus resources to EVERYTHING.

That includes research.

So you get +15% research and +20% research from ecumenopolis.

instead of 30% research.

it's not even a trade off despite what the game makes it try and sound like, lol.
One of the relic world features gives you a flat +8 research jobs. So you do miss out on a free upgraded lab.

But, as noted, there's probably no way that's worth 50% pop growth - this is just under 2 organic pops every 11 years.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Deuce posted:

Edit: Too late, the Khan colonized all those systems himself, and the fallen empire doesn't seem to give a poo poo.
They will once the Khan becomes a normal country.

Also sometimes the Khan will send his ships into fallen empire territory where they'll just get immediately killed.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


The "Reverse-Engineer Arcane Technology" use of minor artifacts also has a 1/4 chance of giving you a random fallen empire building

ShadowHawk fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Mar 5, 2020

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Looking forward to sabotaging the AI by giving them 10-year trades of a resource income that they'll replace all domestic production of

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Serephina posted:

Almost certainly the AI gives no shits abound running a deficit and will just keep chugging forwards as normal.
In the dev diary linked above the AI very much cares.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


To be clear, the AI is still going to cheat like hell on everything but easiest difficulty

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Yeah from that design it doesn't look like the AI will be capable of:

1) Purposefully moving pops around to planets where they're more efficient (only natural growth), except maybe a heuristic to migrate off overfull worlds
2) Considering or even altering what pop type will use a building after it's built

I'm also somewhat worried it's going to staff all the clerk jobs it can rather than ignore them given that he said "free jobs" was an indicator not to build more

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Splicer posted:

2) this should be handled by the pop shuffling mechanic, and they described how they reworked that in the last diary.
What I meant is that the AI will consider building 2 mining districts because it needs 1.5 mining districts worth of ore, but probably won't think ahead to the fact that it has +mining pops and really only needs one.

This is probably not a terribly significant effect since they'll be counted once they're already working though

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Gort posted:

Urban:

+25% City District Build Speed
-10% City District Cost

Two bonuses while you're building city districts, but literally nothing once they're built. The only use for this specialisation is temporary, during the building-up phase.
What infuriates me the most about this is that the -cost is applied when you start construction. Other than tedium, nothing prevents the player from pausing the game, switching specialization to urban, queuing up a city district, then switching back to another specialization.

The same micromanagement goes for governors with blocker clearing cost reduction.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Serephina posted:

The devs explicitly said that migration is just a bonus/malus to pop growth, if the numbers are lining up when you're checking that's mostly just happy coincidence. There are many other things other than those two racial traits that can affect the migration numbers, it's very easy to make an empire that summons pops, or accidentally screw yourself horribly by not disabling migration when the numbers are net negative.
The numbers will be net negative in only the following situations:
1) You have sedentary pops
2) You have migration treaties with more attractive empires
3) You have planets hitting the +5 immigration cap

You can solve number 3 by having more planets with high immigration pull (ie free jobs), or by lowering immigration push on some planets.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

I started a game as driven assimilators with the machine world start and whoops can't build agricultural districts

I guess we're... trading? For food?
Don't your cybernetic organics have a huge penalty on the machine world to habitability too?

Can you make your base race rock people? That sounds like it might be really strong since it would mitigate both problems.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Theswarms posted:

So I started next to an advance start AI, with its borders 3 systems from my cap. I grabbed the choke next to my cap, it grabs the system beyond that. Great, I've got all my stuff to grab behind the choke. It promptly guarantees me and then cancels the guarantee, making a truce and letting it freely run through my borders to grab my systems.

What in the actual gently caress, AI.
Cool, it's not often the Stellaris AI discovers a new exploit!

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

They're at 60%. Not great but workable. I don't think the habitability boosting techs are helping any, so I wonder if rocks would actually have a better time.
Just tested and lithoid cybernetic assimilator pops do indeed get 100% habitability on machine world Friendship Prime.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


androo posted:

Hmm, right. I'm the determined exterminator.
You can actually have completely normal diplomacy with other machine empires.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Aethernet posted:

Reasonable. Any suggestions?

standard.deviant posted:

Same deal for purge jobsóbeing exterminated is just another job at the end of the day.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


canepazzo posted:

Yeah I think it was both of these actually, plus sometimes trade "collapsing" so you lose one or two major arteries to piracy. The biggest issue I think is that feedback is not immmediate - the numbers refresh every month rather than every day, so maybe something changes on the 2nd of the month but you only find out the effects 29 days later.


E: I think a third issue is with the monthly trades that turn on and off somewhat arbitrarily. For example: I have a monthly purchase of 33 gas. Sometimes, it stops buying it month to month, so you have something like this (right is when the buy order doesn't go through, left is when it does):


Your problem is likely that you are running out of a resource you are selling.

The game does monthly trades before monthly production, so you need to have a stockpile to prevent this issue.

For instance if you sell 500 minerals per month and produce 1000, but don't always keep at least 500 minerals on hand, then you'll see your energy go back and forth by 500 minerals worth.

This gets even more stupid with trade treaties - if you dip too low in stockpile (even with always net positive production) you'll instantly flake on the trade treaty, cancel it, and offend them.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


canepazzo posted:

Nope, I don't. However, it sometimes gives me a popup that tells me that one of my buy orders is too high a price nonetheless.
This is because you need the energy in reserve to do the purchase before your monthly income

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


AnEdgelord posted:

What does association status do for either the federation granting it or the empire getting it?
It functions as a non-aggression pact with all federation members. Neither side can declare war, and ending it creates a truce. And it builds trust.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Libluini posted:

(machines as void dwellers would be even more hosed)
Would they? Cant they just colonize planets as normal without a growth penalty like normal void dwellers? Are they even allowed?

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ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


I just got the racket party event outcome where it spawns a "hybrid of your species and the racket" pops on your homeworld.

Except rather than being a crossbreed of my savanna humanoid species with psychic mamallian tomb-world rats, I got 3 pre-sapient arthropoids with continental habitability.

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