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Jazerus
May 24, 2011



PSA: regular outposts can support up to three defense platforms. feel like your giant doom forts just aren't enough? put platforms in every system

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Jazerus
May 24, 2011



OwlFancier posted:

With the fact that defense armies are now a bit tougher than basic assault armies, I feel like picking very strong/resiliant might actually make your planets very hard to capture.

i've been fighting some strong fanatical purifiers and it's impossible to take their worlds without losing a full combat width using regular assault troops, even using a strong species army myself. very strong/resilient might lead to losing two combat widths, which is just utterly crippling to the pace of an invasion until quite late

i guess superior army types are actually really important now

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



OwlFancier posted:

Every tree you open increases your costs for new traditions, this isn't advised.

the penalty is very very small compared to the penalty imposed by systems and planets; while i wouldn't start every tree at once or anything, having two or three active at once can be worth it.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

How am i supposed to do an early war? It's a pain in the rear end to play early if people are nearby because it seems like I can never beat anyone, only white peace

early wars don't seem like a very good idea anymore if you have any room to expand unless you are a purifier, devourer, or other galactic threat, or facing one, since that gives you a total war CB and no influence needs to be used on claiming their territory.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Staltran posted:

I was really surprised you only get the full 3 tiles if the planet is size 12. I think only 13,14,15 give you +2, too? Seems pretty weak, but on the other hand if tradition cost increases from systems and planets stacking multiplicatively is WAD I can sorta see leaving most systems empty and just dealing with the pirates as they spawn becoming the meta? That would make influence less valuable so you'd get more out of Mastery of Nature.

the pirates seem to ramp up roughly 300-400 fleet power per time they spawn for you, so they'll rapidly outpace you if you leave a lot of fully-surrounded enclaves within your empire because those spawn pirates pretty fast

i'm still building outposts in 2290 and i'm probably the most advanced power, tech-wise, so maximum expansion is still quite viable. my unity cost hurts though.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



i haven't been fiddling with my starbases much at all. if you keep up with your fleet there's no need to have ultra-forts everywhere, just near neighbors you're a bit nervous about fighting. keep upgraded starbases that you capture, reconvert them into trading hubs and anchorages as your borders expand away from them. if you're growing, then you will probably not have starbase capacity issues; and if you're not growing, you can place them more optimally and place more defenses.

i'm still spending a lot more time on space construction and planet management than starbases; they're not really any more time-consuming than spaceports were, just more expensive.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Roobanguy posted:

man how are you even supposed to take planets? destroying all the bunkers on a planet doesn't even seem to effect how much damage a defending army takes from bombardment. and they are so loving strong its ridiculous. 30 clone troops should not have trouble taking on 10 defenders.

were you fighting a species that's strong, very strong, resilient, or a combination of those? they're pretty brutal unless you have boosted troops yourself. once you have an edge over the defenders in troop quality your casualties will go way down, but in an even fight i'd expect to lose around a combat width's worth of troops with every invasion.

Psychotic Weasel posted:

IIRC the capital building will suppress every resource, including energy already there, so it will only ever produce the energy and unity it is set to (plus any bonus from POP happiness).

the capital does not suppress existing energy.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Eltoasto posted:

First time playing, figured I would wait till 2.0 and start. Is there anything that forces the AI to fight in a system? What I mean is, if I nab a chokepoint system and build it up as a fortress, is the AI compelled to fight in it, or can they just pass through and ignore it? With the defenses in the center at the star, I am worried they can just come in and gently caress up planets or move on while ignoring the defenses. Probably a noob question.

they must capture the starbase to invade planets, and once you get the FTL inhibitor tech, they can't go past an upgraded starbase or an inhabited planet until they take them

so yeah very early on they can technically just dodge your defenses to an extent, but the AI probably doesn't do that much; a player might though.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



wiegieman posted:

How the hell are you guys building fleets in this patch? I tried keeping a token force together and the ship maintenance just flattened me. Man, minerals are way more god now than they were before.

always keep them in a base with a crew quarters, rush the ship upkeep prosperity tradition

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Chalks posted:

It's a shame that after all this time using auto best ships still frequently reduces your fleet strength when you upgrade.

i wouldn't do auto-best anymore, the system is too complicated now for that. you need to be actively making decisions during ship design because the various weapons are so different, and you should be making more than one design for each class to have different roles filled in battle, i.e. some of your cruisers should be carrier-picketers while others are hanging out in the line with your destroyers.

once you design a ship for its role you shouldn't ever have to tinker with it much except to slap upgrades on, so it's not a huge time sink

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Libluini posted:

I'm having a blast with the new Stellaris -it really feels like playing a more abstract version of SEV.

Dumb question: Can you switch off the auto-designer? I'm not using it and manually deleting all these superfluous auto-designs is really cumbersome.

there's a check-box labelled "Auto-generate designs" in the lower left of the ship designer

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Fintilgin posted:

I'm sort of amazed that some of these event chains are still so screwy. Seems like they must be pushing the limit of what the event engine was designed to do...?

that's wiz's specialty

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



energy should never really be sitting around, at least. you can spend thousands and thousands of energy on enclave stuff like art monuments, proprietary strategic resources, etc.

art monuments seem to let you get ahead of the curve on unity generation by making planets contribute more than they penalize

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Eltoasto posted:

I've got an early space age primitive inside my borders. I know most people just exterminate and move on, but it's a 20% arctic world to me and it's got some betharian. What should I do with these dudes, as eventually left alone they will turn into an enclave right? I'm just observing right now for the sweet 8 society research. They are pacifists but also have the resilient trait so killing them would probably be a pain.

uplift them, it only takes 40 months for atomic age and early space age civs and they come auto-vassalized that way

also, you aren't a horrible monster

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Magil Zeal posted:

I had no idea you could actually, like... do normal trade deals with the Fallen Empires. Out of nowhere the Blorg Forerunners offered to give me 21,000 Energy for Teldar Crystals. I say what the hell, sure. Then I go and trade my entire energy surplus back for about 20k minerals from the Blog and the materialist FE (who likes me because of common ethics). These guys are like the new trade stations.

only the xenophile ones, because they think it's cute that you want to deal with them like you're actually people

all of the others would prefer you go away, please

Asimo posted:

Yeah, all sorts of processing seems to be bugged. Was messing around with a fanatical purifier, and putting xenos into labor camps did nothing besides have them eat my food and add unrest.

Unrelatedly, has anyone figured out just how much research/unity penalty there is for claiming a system? Does colonizing a planet add to this too or is it just part of dropping the outpost? Since either way it seems a bit annoyingly high, especially considering expansion is throttled by influence anyway, and I wonder if it'd be easy to mod it to favor planets more in the calculation or something.

2% per system, 20% per planet (reduced to 16% with expansion traditions)

it's honestly not a huge problem most of the time; expanding is still the correct choice, usually. planets, especially, are less bad than they seem; you can generally break even on unity and pops are an important source of starbase capacity, which will then let you use starbases more freely both for defense and economic purposes.

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Feb 25, 2018

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



DatonKallandor posted:

If you don't get a full on victory for your war you're probably claiming too much (a full surrender means you give up everything the other side claimed, even if they didn't conquer it as I understand it). Most wars are supposed to end with a status quo peace out and the territory gains going to the side that was doing better. You chip away at your opponent with multiple small scale wars. There's no big one-war, one-fleet, knock-out blows anyway.

status quo peaces should probably not use the same symbology as white peaces from other paradox games, since they're not necessarily neutral outcomes

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Strobe posted:

Do pirates only spawn in unoccupied systems? It may end up being far cheaper to just camp a construction ship or something in any empty system you're not prepared to defend from pirates than eat the Tech/Unity penalty.

no, they'll just eat your ship

you're all thinking way too hard about how to game territorial claims. more territory is flat out better than less territory until you're too big for it to even matter, although finding the artist enclave is important if you want to expand and keep up on unity - otherwise your costs are going to outpace your generation.

The Locator posted:

This may be somewhere in the thread, but it's moving so fast I could have missed it.

I'm brand new to this game, and so far it's pretty cool, but some things don't seem to make sense to me.

I am penalized for dropping outposts on every system by 2% on all my research (and maybe the unity thing too, not sure), but if I don't drop outposts on the crappy systems, they spawn pirates for infinity and beyond, and it would force me to camp a fleet in those systems or near them as rapid response units if I don't plop down that outpost. Is there a way around this, or is that just the mechanic.. either pay the 2% research penalty or get an infinite stream of pirates forming in that system?

----

I've just started hitting my first war, and there were stom strange things happening. I'm a robot/cybernetic dude who nobody likes and they instantly seal their borders when we meet (might have something to do with my 'assimilate or get purged' life philosophy, who knows). Anyway I found one of my neighbors that was completely sealed into a pocket, so I figured he would be a good group of meatbags to experiment on. I first claimed the closest 6 of his systems, and then I declared war. My only options were a 'claim' war or to 'humiliate' him, so I chose claim.

I ripped through his fleets and stations like a chainsaw through meatbags, and then asked for a 'status quo' settlement, which they agreed to, causing 5 of the 6 systems to immediately become mine, and with new borders, but the one system where he had a colony instantly flipped back to him, even though I had a starbase and all the other infrastructure, so I'm sort of confused about how to capture a planet.

Then, while we were in enforced truce after the war, he launched a huge fleet of warships, troopships, and science ships and just started sailing through my space as if my border wasn't there, zooming right past my fleet which refused to attack him, and right through my border chokepoint which had a giant deathstar of a starbase with a warp inhibitor... wtf.. Eventually, before the truce ended, all those ships wandered right back into his space and disappeared. So strange.

----------

So truce is over, so I declare war again and this time claim all the rest of his worlds, send in a giant swarm of corvettes and completely crush every ship and station he has left, flipping every single planet over to me... but he is still sitting there on his colonies. When I set my fleet to bombard, it says it will not kill the last 4 people on the planet, so I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to be doing now. According to my racial manifesto, I should be able to somehow assimilate these people and turn them into loyal cyborg dudes, but I've got no idea how... I don't have any tech that will let me blow the planet up either.

I guess I'm going to have to figure out how to make army dudes and send them over there, but I'd rather just bomb the planet into the ice-age, which seems like it should be fairly simple to do, but it won't let me, which is sort of strange given my racial traits, I'd figure that would be the default option.

you must take planets with armies. once you've done that, you can go into the species screen, click on "set rights" for the species you've just taken over, and set their citizenship to "assimilation", which will slowly transform them into cyborgs

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Jabor posted:

Sorry buddy, there's no way to make me want to take some podunk 2-energy-and-nothing-else backwater system unless it's actually relevant from a strategic perspective.

if it's in an area where you're going to have a fleet most of the time, go nuts. having a system like that as a honeypot for pirates can even be useful since you can pounce on them easily if you're expecting them.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



OwlFancier posted:

Holy poo poo Gulli those habitat modifiers from planets are no loving joke!

having played out to mid-game with gulli's mod so far, i really really wish most of the modifiers it adds were half as strong as they are

they break the resource curve pretty badly

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



OwlFancier posted:

Gulli's planet modifiers in a recent version added some new ones, namely that if you build a habitat round the planet they're on, it adds a bonus to the habitat. It's cool because it means that some worlds make really good hab locations, I got a planet with 2 habitat bonuses on it so when I built it I got a habitat with +20 flat physics and +10 flat energy. Really nice bonus! Not gamebreaking cos it's only a couple of labs/solar panels worth but it's free. I think it's honestly pretty fair really given that habs now cost 10000 minerals and there aren't many double bonus planets out there which are also in good systems for your habitats, really makes you want to search for them.


Much as I enjoyed the entire galaxy being made of solid mineral asteroids and having 30 minerals per asteroid belt, I'm glad they were toned down honestly. The habitat modifiers I think are fair for the cost involved and the rest is in a good place. You'll end up with a richer galaxy on average but not by a silly amount.

wait, the space resources used to be even more excessive? what i meant was, they need to be toned down even further, then. habitat and planet resources are fine as is though.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



IAmTheRad posted:

Has anyone run into the space whales in this patch? I've run into (many) space amoeba, abandoned mining drones, crystalline entities, and voidclouds. Usually I would have run into the Tiyanki a long time along

yes, and their weapon actually owns now in the early game, it's basically an autocannon

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Demiurge4 posted:

Hey Wiz, it would be cool if I could burn unity points to reduce war exhaustion. If I expand I'm not gonna be able to buy more than 2 perks anyway.

you don't have enough planets settled for your territory size if you realistically can only get 2 trees down before costs balloon out of control. you should be able to get 3 before hitting the 10 years per tradition mark and even that should eventually get you through a couple more trees over time. there's definitely a temptation not to add to the penalty by colonizing, but unity generation and the various things pops contribute to, such as starbase capacity, make colonizing actually vital to keeping up with the mounting penalty from system ownership

Jazerus
May 24, 2011




i'm not sure whether migration controls can remove the "migrating" status if implemented after the pop starts moving; they obviously should be able to though. if you already had the species set to migration control on before the abduction, then something might be wrong with migration control in general.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Clanpot Shake posted:

Also you don't have expand from your borders. Influence costs scale linearly and if you can skip that system to cut off a neighbor, go for it. My current empire has big empty pockets because the systems simply aren't worth the overhead and there's no danger of anyone building in them.

worth noting: if you border a system owned by another nation which is connected to an unclaimed system, you can claim that system (at double the usual cost) and cut them off on that side too.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



gates and wormholes are much better with their sliders set to 2x abundance. not so many that they trivialize travel, but enough that the galaxy is traversable. it also makes for interesting wars over useful travel routes!

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



toasterwarrior posted:

Question: with systems only inflating unity costs by 2% while planets take 20% for unity, is the new conventional wisdom for tall play to expand as much as you can, starbases for chokepoints permitting, but not to colonize planets all willy-nilly? Maybe only colonize up to your core systems cap?

colonize willy-nilly imo

systems give no unity. planets do. they're a better investment than 10 systems would be because not only do planets have tons of resources, raw pop numbers contribute to starbase capacity. besides, expansion is more or less a must-have and it reduces the penalty to 16%

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Baronjutter posted:

The only reason I have carriers is that they seem to be the only way to get point defense for your fleets. I have no clue what the new meta is and I'm not really enjoying the ship design changes so much because the feedback is still mostly useless. Great, weapon options have more defined functions, but I have no clue how to translate my battle reports (when I even get them, so many end with nothing coming up at all) into meaningful fleet composition or design changes.

Did I lose that battle against an evenly match enemy because I had too many small ships? Too many big ships? Not enough anti-shield weapons? Wasted fleet power on carriers? Need more long range weapons? Need more short ranged accurate weapons? I have no idea. I can get a general sense that I need more anti-shield or anti-armour weapons, but I have no idea how to weigh if I should be swarming with smaller ships or if my big ships will do better with more of a screen. I'm not even sure how to judge which AI to give ships. What's the pro/con of swarm vrs line?

here's how I view the AI roles:

swarm: it's for gun and laser corvettes. they should use this because it keeps them in autocannon range.

picket: missile corvettes, because they don't need to be right up on the battle but still should be close, and carrier cruisers so they can intercept missiles headed for the rear with their PD.

line: anything with medium weapons. usually your destroyers are the main component of the line.

artillery: battleships and large-focused cruisers so they can sit at range and pick things off without taking fire.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Pylons posted:

I still like swarm for missile corvettes because the close distance allows them to bypass *some* PD.

picket gives a huge tracking bonus, which is the weak stat for missiles

either has its advantages

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Galaga Galaxian posted:

So I just won my first major war, my slaver neighbors declared on me and I went and kicked their asses, seizing three colonized border worlds via claims and just sqeaking it in before my war exhaustion hit 100% (the final invasion concluded after exhaustion hit 100).

Except now I have no clue what to do with these guys. The worlds are in shambles from the armies fighting/bombardment and the populace is in an uproar. I've started rebuilding the forts and declared martial law on all three worlds, but I'm not even sure if I want to keep these, or why I even claimed them instead of just kicking their asses for funsies. I guess I could split them off into a protectorate? Or maybe just put a couple of my own colonies into a sector and slowly integrate them.

Any tips on dealing with newly conquered worlds as relatively benign Egalitarian Xenophiles? I'm half tempted to just reload to the start of the war and not claim all that poo poo, its gonna be a mess, lol.




I think this is why I seized those planets, I kinda wanted that other pulsar system as a chokepoint, Ubreb did great against an enemy fleet supposedly stronger than it (though it did take significant damage).

just put them in their own sector and let them stir up trouble for a while. after 5 years they will get over being conquered, and the unrest events will help shift their ethics, which is on balance good when you are conquering opposite-ethic pops.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Gadzuko posted:

Agreed, I didn't mind when this game first came out but the staggering amount of bugs that they reverted in this version blows my mind. It's like they forked the Cherryh code off of Stellaris 1.0 and undid all the bug fixing they have ever done.

uhhhh the game is not particularly buggy at the moment though? there are a few issues here and there but none of them aside from purges being broken are even particularly noticeable. some new features need further tuning, of course, but those mostly aren't "bugs"

on a related note, though, i have found a bug with assimilation. if you try to assimilate an uplifted species, to make them cybernetic/latent psionic/etc., the game will:

1. set all uplifted species in your empire to assimilation citizenship even if they are already cybernetic/latent psionic/etc. from the initial special project
2. flip them back to their previous citizenship status at the turn of the year without adding the trait to any pops

i'm not sure if it's uplifted pre-sentients only, as i think i had a refugee from an invaded primitive civ who similarly was resistant to assimilation, but it always happens to uplifted species.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



bitterandtwisted posted:

A great Khan appeared on the opposite side of the galaxy, and I expected to get slaughtered when he took over a womhole leading right into my space, but nothing happened. I tried to invade him and it just showed a red x saying he'd closed borders with me. Lame.

Can you use wormholes to invade empires you're officially at war with, or do you get the same message?

you can absolutely pop out of a wormhole into an empire you're at war with; the other side of the wormhole even counts as adjacent for claim purposes, i believe, although the empire that owns the other side doesn't currently count as a neighbor.

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Feb 27, 2018

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



appropriatemetaphor posted:

What galaxy settings are you folks using?

My default has been: Large --> Elliptical --> .25x planets and everything else basically default. Before 2.0 I liked the reduced planets because it extended the first phase of the game out, but now I don't think that's needed anymore. Seems like it's just forcing me to claim a buttload of systems and tanking my science.

large 4-arm spiral, max AIs and fallen empires, with 5 advanced starts. 2x gates, 1.5x wormholes, 1x habitable planets. i haven't experimented with hyperlane density yet; punching up gates and wormholes gives them a much larger role and really divides your empire up into a "core" around whatever gates you possess and "backwaters" which are far from the gates, while also linking up the various galactic regions in interesting ways

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



appropriatemetaphor posted:

Totally blocked by mining drones, buuuut have a load of planets. Going tall I guess for now.



edit: found another habitable planet all within a few jumps of the start. .25x planets my butt.

mining drones are not as threatening as they appear. their lasers have -75% to shields and they have no other weapons; as such, a small fleet of all-shields corvettes is essentially immortal against the drones. you should never feel particularly blocked by them!

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



The Bramble posted:

Try to have 6 Corvettes or so by end of the 10th year when the pirates come.

My first moves when starting a new game are: pause - pick research (generally grabbing the advanced labs if available. Planetary Unification is a first pick from Society if available) - build a monument in an empty tile - build a mineral mine with your constructor - send science ship in direction you most want to expand based on geography - unpause.

just wanted to make a couple comments on this:

1. if you're caught without 6 corvettes when the pirates come, pause, examine their weapon loadout. if they're gun-heavy (which seems to be the usual preference for pirates) refit your corvettes to all armor, if they're laser-heavy refit to all shields. the starting 3 corvettes can handle the first pirate fleet with this advantage particularly if you jump on them while they're fighting an outpost.

2. a lot of people seem to go for the labs as first picks, i'm not sure why though. you're not going to have more than 3 planets for a long while under most circumstances, each of those planets will have maybe 5 labs max, maybe a few more if you're lucky and they're all pretty big. you will have to upgrade them all once you've got the techs. so, you're spending early-game research time that could have gotten you something else, 1500+ minerals, and a lot of building time (which is no joke, now) for...15 research of various types. very underwhelming. this isn't to say you should never upgrade your labs - that would be dumb - but the early game is really a bad time to do it. a basic science lab is 75% as good as a tier 1 bio/physics/engineering lab and is only 33% of the total cost of the tier 1 labs.

pick anything but labs as your first research. i beg you. the best picks are probably administrative AI (5% research speed), planetary unification (+2 unity) or genome mapping (+10% growth speed) if that's not available, and powered exoskeletons (5% minerals).

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



SkySteak posted:

So are the complaints in a Apocalypse actually worthwhile or are people just whining, given that the rating is currently lingering at 65%? Is it just the new changes or is there actually some severe issues with the game currently?

they're whining, it's much much better than it was before.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Strobe posted:

People go for labs first because even +3 research in one type from one planet is enough to cut literally years off of the techs for improved infrastructure with game start research levels.

Research has a hugely magnified effect on the early game out of proportion with its late game effects.

makes sense from a pre-2.0 standpoint since space research was hugely unreliable. i'm not sure it holds up now that you can beeline straight to all of the nearby systems with 3+ research points; eventually planetary research is very important, but it can take several years just for the first tech to get done and by then you should be aware enough of your neighborhood to be able to secure way more than +3 research.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



PRAISE THE SUN posted:

So, turns out the AI has been paying 50% less maintenance costs than players since Utopia.

that is a good thing

the AI at launch had a tendency to destroy their economies by building up enough of a fleet to ward off an early rush and thus not only neglecting their economy but also permanently draining it through maintenance costs. the AI was incredibly bad at expanding unless they had an advanced start, which gave them a sensibly built-up initial empire. but, you do want the AI to be able to fight a player even very early, so forcing them to focus exclusively on economy isn't desirable either.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Libluini posted:

No!

(I always take my first techs for roleplay reasons. And even later, I often stop and think: "What would the people of this empire actually choose, based on their own desires?" Ironically, Planetary Unification is always my first pick for that exact same reason: It just makes so much sense in the early game, when you're still a young, barely united space civilization.)

if you're playing a bunch of folks who don't want an AI that can clear out their spam folder and powered exoskeletons to take all of the effort out of manual labor while being joyously united with all of their fellow [Root.GetSpeciesName] brothers and sisters across the globe, i don't even know why you'd want to play as them

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



if you want a quick-fix to the unity costs, modding TRADITION_COST_MULT_NUM_SYSTEMS in defines.txt to 0.01 instead of 0.02 brings the unity costs more in-line with the intended values, although since multiplicative and additive produce differently shaped curves, no adjustment to the user-visible files can genuinely fix the bug. if you do this, the math dictates that extremely large empires will eventually benefit more than intended, so if you intend to grow extremely large a value of 0.015 might be better for balance.

myself i'll probably just wait for the patch, but if it's driving anyone really crazy, make the above fix in the mean time

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Jazerus
May 24, 2011



AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Wow this game needs some loving hovertext. I dont know what anything is and none of it is explained. What the gently caress is the difference between "Explore System" and "Survey System"? What/how do half the things in the fleet manager mean/do/work?

explore system just moves the science ship there. this is useful only because other ships can't enter systems until a science ship has. survey system surveys all of the objects in a system for resources.

every button in the fleet manager does actually have a tooltip

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