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Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Excellent thread title.

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Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Captain Oblivious posted:

The only thing bugging me right now is the fact that I can't right click poo poo to queue up surveys or mining stations anymore, otherwise life is good

What do you mean? You can still shift-click orders to queue them.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Baronjutter posted:

How do you get subjugation or tributary CB? I have the domination tree but every empire I try to declare war on just says I don't have the right CB, but there's no explanation how to get it.

Demand vassalisation or tribute. It should say how to get it if you select the greyed out wargoal during wardec.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Baronjutter posted:

Thanks!

Now that I have the war going, I'm not sure how to win it though. I absolutely over-power them and have just been carpet sieging their planets but it looks like I need +200 warscore to win a tributary wargoal. Am I missing something?


Occupy more systems to get their acceptance up.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Shadowlyger posted:

Fully upgraded fully stocked starbase: 12k

Enemy fleet: 70k

This is either a straight up lie or you haven't found the 'Defenses' tab yet.

EDIT: Hell, even without defensive platforms a Citadel with all turrets will be significantly more than 12k. I honestly think you're just making poo poo up.

Wiz fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Feb 23, 2018

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

When adding claims, there's a box to add more than one claim to the same system. What does this do?

Used to trump the claims of allies.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Baronjutter posted:

I really hope the map scripts are given another look, or modders open up more advanced behavior because anything lower than 1.0 for lane density ends up looking bad. Instead of clumps and clusters the map looks like an intestinal tract of long snaking chains of lanes. I want more choke points, but for those points to between more dense interconnected clusters.

We're going to look into iterating more on the algorithm in the future. It's not just a matter of tweaking numbers, we have to add logic to make secondary passes to create constellations and such.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Kaza42 posted:

War exhaustion is ridiculous right now. I was playing as a dominant power rolling over a mid-sized empire to vassalize it. I never lost a single ship, and the closest fight was something like 3:1 in my favor. And yet I still got forced into a white peace due to war exhaustion before I could complete the wargoal. I'm playing a machine empire, I don't *want* to conquer their land and why are my robots getting tired of war anyway?

Realism is not a meaningful argument. Without war exhaustion and forced status quo peaces, every single war would be to the death.

That said, it might be ticking up too fast right now.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

DatonKallandor posted:

The problem with non-abstracted trade is performance. You can certainly abstract it less than it currently is, but trying to put individual trade ships on the map would be a nightmare for performance.

Not really. There's a big difference between having trade ships be some kind of graphical entity that just moves from point to point and having them as full-fledged ships/fleets with all the ship/fleet mechanics. The latter is far, far, far, far (imagine me writing far for a while here) more performance intensive than the former. A single trade ship would be less performance intensive than a single strike craft if you did it right.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Eiba posted:

I don't know if the random gifts from strangers is working the way it's supposed to, but in practice it has been for me. Every time someone I don't know gives me a gift like that I call them back up and give them a nonagression pact, and going forward I take more of an interest in the wellbeing of that country.

It's weird as heck that there's no gift dialog though. Just "how does this deal sound?" when the "deal" is a pretty substantial gift with no strings attached.

There is in fact special gift dialogue (I just tested it and it works fine). Are you sure that they used the standard dialog when gifting?

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

CrazyTolradi posted:

I noticed that Stimsis (of Fourth Stimpire fame) was removed from the name list file. I feel grief.

No, it's still there. Are you looking in the right place? Are you sure a mod didn't remove it?

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Aethernet posted:

Wiz, a lot of people who otherwise hate me have been giving me large amounts of energy. Should I take gifts from strangers or report it as a bug?

There's a bit of AI weirdness in 2.1 with it being too friendly in general. Should be sorted in 2.1.1.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Chalks posted:

Hey Wiz, since you're around I was wondering what strength you expect players to be at when they unlock the L-Gate stuff? I had a couple of 5k fleets and was equivalent or stronger than all my neighbours when I activated it and I was surprised at how completely outmatched I was.

Fortunately I just reloaded a save but it feels like it would have been rather game ending in ironman.

The L-Gate chain is being completed a lot quicker than intended. We're going to make some tweaks.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Eiba posted:

Okay, now I'm a little bit worried. I've never been that enthralled by fleet stuff, and having to source multiple materials to make a basic almost-naked corvette is not something that immediately sounds engaging.

Psst, a super-early screenshot with values altered to be used as a teaser will not give you an accurate idea of what those values will look like on release. Of course we're not going to make a basic starting ship require you to have resources you can't produce in your home system.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

OwlFancier posted:

Hella hype for true fully automated luxury space communism where we kill all the noblebots and expropriate their components to build more workerbots to produce more luxuries to sell for more minerals.

Let's just say Utopian Abundance has much more significant implications and effects in the new system than it previously had.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Baronjutter posted:

I'm so pumped about these changes, but I really hope there's some mechanics for playing a less class-based civilization that doesn't have that whole class-pyramid thing going on. Now that Stellaris is the true Victoria 3 please give me full communism now. I need my Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism and it looks like we finally have the class mechanics to represent that.

Like I know "Victoria 3 when" became such a Paradox meme, but adding a heavy dose of Vicky pops and politics to Stellaris might even be better. I've played Victoria, but I haven't played a good space 4X with real meaty social/population mechanics, so I think I'm more pumped about stellaris getting some vicky juice than if V3 was actually announced.

You won't be able to remove the categories entirely (as they also exist to organize the jobs interface-wise) but you *will* be able to eliminate all meaningful differences between them and give workers the same living standards and political power as rulers, etc.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Aethernet posted:

'Political power' now a thing pops can have, then, unless it's equivalent to their ability to participate in factions?

Yeah, it's how much power they contribute to factions and how much their happiness is counted towards planetary stability. Having a single angry ruler pop is a much bigger deal than even several worker pops under more stratified conditions.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Splicer posted:

I don't think it needs to be locked behind ethics or civics. Authoritarianism where the ruling caste pointedly does not waste resources on frippery, bread and circuses is for the weak minded, our asceticism is what makes us fit to lead. Ruling is not a privilege, it is a duty.

I'm sorry, but some things are just too unrealistic even for Stellaris.

An early game egalitarian living standard where rulers have to give some stuff up and are mad about it is totes doable tho.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Splicer posted:

Just realised there's no way to make a species who do not care about creature comforts outside hive minds. You can reduce the cost of consumer goods, but not demand. No concept of knowledge for knowledge's sake or "For the good of the species"; all across the Stellaris universe there is no motivator but greed.

This is a searing hot but very silly take on 'those with power tend to allocate more resources to themselves'

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Captain Invictus posted:

nooooope! it booted a third of the organic pops off somewhere else and the rest of the tiles converted into sanctuaries. So Celestial Throne has like 4 fabricators, 6 dark matter power plants and 2 foodmakers and the rest turned into sanctuaries. super sucks!

This can't really be fixed with the tile system in place but will automatically be fixed with the planet rework.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Aethernet posted:

Has it been clarified how the Infrastructure value is calculated yet?

It mainly comes from districts. City districs give more infra than resource extracting ones do.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Eiba posted:

I love this.

And I love that the economy update being Le Guin is probably a reference to The Dispossessed which is my favorite Le Guin and keeping that book in mind while reworking your economic options can only lead to good things.

It is indeed, as well as a reference to her general tendency to create diverse and interesting fictional civilizations.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

OwlFancier posted:

The only le guin thing I've ever read was the earthsea stuff and I thought it was utterly terrible so it's always weird when I hear people talking about her writing good things.

You may be suffering from a severe case of Bad Taste. Condolences.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Splicer posted:

I'd prefer three sliders over discrete settings but I'm accepting that I'm the weird guy here.

Seems like you'd need a slider to decide how many sliders there should be. Maybe also a slider to determine how many sliders are used to determine the number of sliders.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Just gonna leave this here.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Baronjutter posted:

Obviously we're just getting little peeks, but I don't like that shared burden is a pre-set living standard. What if my empire is doing really well and I want to globally increase luxuries for everyone to make them happier? Hope there will be a way to put the luxury into fully automated luxury space communism.

It still enables you to switch to Utopian Abundance (it requires Egalitarian, so it'll always be an option). It just disables the more stratified living conditions.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Baronjutter posted:

I really hope we can do a lot more with the new pop and planet system, and do a lot more easily with little to no micro-management. I also hope we'll see improvements to robots, and allow empires to have various "species" of robots together.

For instance, I'd love to be a materialist civilization that has fully sapient droids and humans living in harmony together with full equal rights, but also have mining-droids working the mines and servant droids pampering the various organic and non-organic citizens. I really so desperately hope to see an end of the system where researching synths auto-upgrades all your robots giving them all the same bonuses and new citizen issues that come along with it. I'd love to see actual species policies that let me for instance make it so my humans are freed from all menial work, they can only research and create culture and art while all physical labour is done by non-sapient robots, while at the same time also have the ability to build synths. Everyone is happy, no sapients are enslaved or exploited.

This is not going to happen because how you deal with sapient robots is supposed to be a choice/trade-off and if you could just keep most of your robots non-sapient there would be one obviously best choice for every play-through.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Baronjutter posted:

The idea of a nearly fully automated luxury society that also has "strong AI" with full rights is a pretty common one in scifi too. If the balance doesn't allow it, fix the balance. It seems like a weirdly restrictive choice to choose between "we know how to make robots be people, thus all robots are suddenly now people and thus enslaved" and "Our robots are just tools with no sapiance so obviously they are not slaves." Why not "We have a vast array of robots and automation technology along with a spectrum of rights and protections based on the levels of sapiance of the intelligence in question"

There is a perfectly good gameplay choice present already that captures the themes of AI rights and rebellion (with even more significance to its effects under the new system). 'It's weird' is not a good enough reason to tear that up, and 'fix the balance' doesn't even mean anything. More options does not always make for better gameplay or more interesting choices.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Crazycryodude posted:

The good thing is that Stellaris is already a highly moddable game, and if I understand last week's dev diary correctly the economic overhaul is gonna be so fundamentally moddable that you can do basically anything you want with it relating to the economy and popuation, including modding it so you can have sapient brainbots and non-sapient workerbots. Which, like Wiz said, is an objectively best choice so I probably wouldn't download that mod because that would be boring, but to each their own.

It will absolutely be possible to mod in.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

A_Spec posted:

Ye, this is a pretty massive dev diary. I find this little bit interesting.


https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/740561853978431488

It's been two years since you became Game Director Wiz, have you been wanting to change it since then?

I've been wanting to change it since before the game came out. There were other things that were more important to do first, though. What I personally want the most doesn't always correspond to what's best for the game!

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Aethernet posted:

Surely you noticed that all adjacency bonuses were gradually being removed to eliminate any lingering game in the tilegame? :tinfoil:

Honestly adjacency bonuses tended to, if anything, make the tile system even less interesting since it mostly just promoted monoresource planets.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Nuclearmonkee posted:

Looks great. Hoping that there are not Farming District I - V upgrades or if there are that the process of upgrading anything is entirely automatic.

There is no manual upgrading of districts.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Gyshall posted:

How are the performance gains on the new system?

This really isn't something we can properly measure until we're further along in development but I'm hoping for some substantial late-game improvements.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Staltran posted:

Okay, I definitely didn't expect a console version of Stellaris. How the hell is the UI going to work?

https://twitter.com/StellarisGame/status/1031526499361476608

It's a completely separate version with a full console port made by an external studio.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Erev posted:

Does it look significantly different from the other peace offers because I didn't see it? In EU4 there's this huge red flag and I think even a sound notification when an unconditional surrender has been offered. I mean, even then I think the status quo mechanic really sucks when its forced through from war exhaustion. I'd much rather see a different set of penalties instead.

Putting a timer on war is the only way to make a whole lot of war mechanics meaningful. We tried replacing it with penalties and it just meant all wars were to the death and there was no reason to fight delaying actions or otherwise do anything but throw up your hands and surrender when outmatched.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

canepazzo posted:

Migration:

"when choosing a Species to grow, planets will generally prioritize Species that are under-represented on the planet"

Will habitability be a factor?

I'm loving the changes so far, love the kind of organic growth your planets will get.

Habitability is a major factor, yeah.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Aethernet posted:

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1032644533132165120?s=19

I dunno. I'd like to see buildings in the top picture, to demonstrate that the planet is changing when you build stuff. Rows upon rows of kelp farms, that's what I want.

So would I, but I honestly don't think we can do it with our current art budget. Maybe in a limited fashion, or sometime in a later update.

Wiz fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Aug 23, 2018

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Eiba posted:

Yeah, it seems a bit odd to me as well. As a xenophile, I think it's great to have a multi-species planet, but I kind of want that to happen more naturally.

It's a game. There is no "naturally". If you want the majority species to be the preferred one growing you will keep having homogenous home planets forever.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Dallan Invictus posted:

One would think that "ensuring heterogeneous home/capital planets, or not" should be a choice for players and AI to make based on practicalities or ethics or the diplomatic situation, rather than a baseline goal of the simulation.

That said it seems like a lot of these weights will be moddable so ideally I'll just tweak it myself.

It's not like you will inevitably get a ton of alien immigrants on your home planet. It depends on your policies, and I can only assume that an empire that grants full citizenship to every species and signs a ton of migration treaties wants a diverse population.

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Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Strudel Man posted:

Come on, 'naturally' obviously means 'in accordance with one's intuitive expectations.'

Nothing about pop growth in Stellaris makes sense to begin with. Growing your population in such a way that you can have 100x the population you had at the start of the game in just a century or two is utterly and completely unrealistic, but we have it that way because otherwise building your space empire would suck. I really don't see why that particular part of the system needs to make sense 'realistically' when the rest of it really does not.

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