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Antifa Spacemarine posted:It was pretty lame there was absolutely nothing at the ruins besides the opportunity for "allies". Not even a consolation prize magic item in those caskets. Agreed, think this was a little oversight by Matt for sure. Always have multiple rewards (whether information, allies, treasure, personal revelation, etc.) in an encounter area like that so your players feel like they've "completed" it and can move on without the DM having to outright explain what the encounter was meant to be about.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:41
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 18:05 |
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Not Having a reward is fine, his only mistake was calling for initiative while talking was going on.
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Aug 3, 2020 17:11
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If anyone was interested in watching the cast on The Great Debate but didn't catch it when it aired, it is on YouTube now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izVl8_V7hHQ
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Aug 3, 2020 17:15
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Dameius posted:If anyone was interested in watching the cast on The Great Debate but didn't catch it when it aired, it is on YouTube now. Video not available.
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Aug 3, 2020 17:20
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Probably region locked then because its working fine for me.
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Aug 3, 2020 17:26
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Why did Matt mention that they could have allied anyway? Isn’t it kinda bad form to do that with dead plot lines? Even if it was his baby (which I doubt it was) he should be used to these narrative curveballs by now
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Aug 3, 2020 17:36
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Alan Smithee posted:Why did Matt mention that they could have allied anyway? he already posted on twitter that he probably handled that wrong and didn't send the right signals that diplomacy was possible, especially after already having one combat encounter there
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Aug 3, 2020 17:46
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Reminds me a of DM I had in college who always seemed so smug to let us know after the session was over that we missed hidden rooms or "did it the hard way" when he was clearly signposting and railroading us into one outcome.
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Aug 3, 2020 18:35
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They chose a good image for the thumbnail if nothing else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni3aw71y7LI
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Aug 3, 2020 20:26
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I generally think it's fine to tell players hey there's nothing else for you to do here. He screwed up in the first place so hearing that probably didn't make it the players feel great. But yeah poo poo happens, you learn from it.
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Aug 3, 2020 20:28
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i feel like this arc feels onerous because there are just too many resource constraints - island's really difficult and you need to expend a bunch of spells to fly, or else risk very dangerous encounters - even once you do, getting TO the boss requires a bunch more resource expenditure - sailing would be an option but it's been removed, meaning there's also no getting away except by a one-way teleport - forgetfulness magic means your clerics need to basically use all their 5th level spells each day - each rest and short rest loses you more of your items it leaves the players feeling like they have only bad choices and therefore everything takes forever as they bicker and have no clear direction
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Aug 3, 2020 20:37
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eke out posted:- forgetfulness magic means your clerics need to basically use all their 5th level spells each day It's actually worse if they played by the book. Greater Restoration costs a diamond each time its cast, although even back in campaign 1 Matt hasn't really held to this strictly.
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Aug 3, 2020 20:53
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This arc is just dragging its feet to a ridiculous extent. The villain was established from the moment they step foot on it (not its identity but being able to tell there was a villain) and then a few episodes they meet the villain. And then... we're not doing anything. It's like they got presented with the "this is the thing you have to fight" and instead sort of ran from it to spin their wheels for a while. It's like if Mollymauk was a plot.
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Aug 3, 2020 21:14
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They're trying to explore the island and gain an advantage, but yeah Matt makes them roll a d20 every 10 steps to walk without tripping, and when they get there there's been no loot or information or anything, so yeah it's been dragging slowly.
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Aug 3, 2020 22:18
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I am still shocked that they haven't just decided to return and murder the giant evil squid thing. Like sure it'd be tricky, but gently caress it, murder the squid. Stab it in the eye.
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Aug 4, 2020 11:24
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Scorchy posted:They're trying to explore the island and gain an advantage, but yeah Matt makes them roll a d20 every 10 steps to walk without tripping, and when they get there there's been no loot or information or anything, so yeah it's been dragging slowly. It's basically this. I can't fault them for wanting to check out the side aress; Matt can throw out some real pain in the rear end monsters so it's only sensible that they'd want to check around for any extra advantages they could get. Sadly all they've found has been a backdoor of dubious usefulness, and a poorly telegraphed chance at a potential ally. At this point I think the only option they have left is getting some of the village hunters to help, but that's going to be a pain in the rear end too (so I'd give good odds on them trying it and flubbing it).
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Aug 4, 2020 12:02
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Nemo2342 posted:It's basically this. I can't fault them for wanting to check out the side aress; Matt can throw out some real pain in the rear end monsters so it's only sensible that they'd want to check around for any extra advantages they could get. They will probably need something to take out this monster, so I think Matt will have the villagers help them as long as they don't actively try to kill them. It might be some offscreen stuff as a distraction or stopping something else from happening, but they'll help out somehow to make the fight easier.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:16
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I've enjoyed this arc but this was a real clunker of a session. I mean it didn't have to be and it wasn't really anyone's fault but goddamn am I ready for them to just make calamari out of Vokodo. EDIT: Like I don't think the players did anything wrong by exploring options on the island before the final confrontation. It makes for a slow episode, but it's the smart thing to do. I also think it's really funny that Vokodo is listening to all this and is still just like, mildly pissed, not really doing much to them - presumably bc it can't do much to them except the brainwashing they keep clearing up. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Aug 4, 2020 |
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Aug 4, 2020 23:38
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Even with those allies and the backdoor they found, they presumably don't have anything to deal with what I assume is scaring them - the boiling water Vokodo can cause.
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Aug 5, 2020 02:50
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I feel like Control Water might help with that - not controlling the temperature, but pushing the boiling water away. It's a very bad idea to fight Vokodo in it's lair, though, given the control it has over those fire plants. Given the factors involved, I don't think it's a coincidence that Vilya is here to help them, from a design standpoint. She might not have completed her aramente, but she is a very powerful druid, pretty much certainly higher level than the m9 at this point I think, with a specialization in manipulation of the elements. She's almost certainly the most powerful ally they had to recruit, especially since if they hadn't, they probably would have been fighting her too. So with all that in mind, the most important thing is going to be trying to lure Vokodo out of it's lair. It seems to trust Viridian a lot, but given it's specialty as a brainwasher I feel like the jig might be up once it actually meets her face to face again. Maybe the hellghosts were supposed to get Vokodo out of the lair, idk.
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Aug 5, 2020 03:10
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seaborgium posted:They will probably need something to take out this monster, so I think Matt will have the villagers help them as long as they don't actively try to kill them. It might be some offscreen stuff as a distraction or stopping something else from happening, but they'll help out somehow to make the fight easier. I disagree, unfortunately. Matt's pretty much laid out what they CAN do: go meet whatever villagers they want to recruit, cast Greater Restoration on them, then see if they will help. The problem is that it is horribly expensive in terms of spell slots, since you've got to burn slots to get at least 3 people there (Virdian and the 2 clerics) and burn more getting them back. That's why the party was trying to see if they could get some of the hunters to meet them half-way, but even that is going to be dicey because no one wants to let an unfamiliar cleric cast random spells on them. Most likely the party will try to convince some hunters to come meet them (it only costs a message) and if that fails they're probably going to have to go on their own.
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Aug 5, 2020 03:53
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Nemo2342 posted:I disagree, unfortunately. Matt's pretty much laid out what they CAN do: go meet whatever villagers they want to recruit, cast Greater Restoration on them, then see if they will help.
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Aug 5, 2020 04:42
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Waiting for Marius to trip over an ancient powerful artifact and become the BBEG
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Aug 5, 2020 05:00
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Dramatika posted:Waiting for Marius to trip over an ancient powerful artifact and become the BBEG
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Aug 5, 2020 05:21
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Nemo2342 posted:Yeah, it's kind of annoying. We *just* had an encounter with a bodak that could insta-kill people; what else would a DM think is going to happen when spooky things pop up and seem threatening? Exactly. What did he think was going to happen when he said "Roll initiative" before letting Jester respond to the question the thing asked? They were attempting to talk until that happened.
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Aug 5, 2020 14:19
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from a mechanics standpoint, could Matt have been asking for initiative for something non combat or was it a mistep
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Aug 5, 2020 14:24
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Alan Smithee posted:from a mechanics standpoint, could Matt have been asking for initiative for something non combat or was it a mistep He’s done it in the past where he’s had them roll initiative for a non combat encounter either to put a time constraint on them or because the encounter could become combat at any time but usually he’ll present it in a way that makes it clearer that a fight isn’t necessarily happening yet. Just saying “Okay for this next part we’re going to go in initiative order” instead of “roll initiative” changes the players expectations as to what’s about to happen.
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Aug 5, 2020 14:53
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Epi Lepi posted:He’s done it in the past where he’s had them roll initiative for a non combat encounter either to put a time constraint on them or because the encounter could become combat at any time but usually he’ll present it in a way that makes it clearer that a fight isn’t necessarily happening yet. Just saying “Okay for this next part we’re going to go in initiative order” instead of “roll initiative” changes the players expectations as to what’s about to happen. would it then be a talking pillow type thing? New to DND rules
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Aug 5, 2020 14:59
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At least personally, if things go to dice its a reasonable expectation that it means that someone has done something actively aggressive. If the GM ask for initiave and no player has done something i'd assume it means an npc is attacking in some way
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Aug 5, 2020 15:47
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Alan Smithee posted:would it then be a talking pillow type thing? Kind of? It's just a way that a DM can raise the stakes of a social encounter. When you're going in initiative order you can't spend minutes discussing what you want to say with the rest of the party, you have to make a decision individually. I honestly don't know if the rules themselves ever lay out that kind of situation but it's not explicitly against the rules.
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Aug 5, 2020 16:50
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https://twitter.com/Darker_Hue/status/1291028185728000000?s=19 This is raising funds for the Bail Project.
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Aug 5, 2020 17:29
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Yeah when Matt said roll initiative, I'd assumed that the initial attempt to parley had somehow pissed the ghosts off. Matt fumbled the execution, not Marisha, because her response was reasonable given the sudden 'oh poo poo'. Without that, it would have just been a creepy 'hooooow?' which, well, they had an answer to (banishment).
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Aug 5, 2020 18:45
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So if I barely have enough time to watch the episodes to begin with is this one worth a skip and just read a recap? Is it that rough?
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Aug 5, 2020 21:03
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I found it fine. It's not their best but it's no shopping episode. The cast is a bit loopy towards the end of the first half, so that's fun.
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Aug 5, 2020 21:11
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There's plenty of good funny bits, it's just not a high action episode.
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Aug 5, 2020 21:13
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PetraCore posted:Yeah when Matt said roll initiative, I'd assumed that the initial attempt to parley had somehow pissed the ghosts off. Matt fumbled the execution, not Marisha, because her response was reasonable given the sudden 'oh poo poo'. Without that, it would have just been a creepy 'hooooow?' which, well, they had an answer to (banishment). Yeah, I feel like Marisha kind of unfairly got dogpiled for kicking poo poo off when 95% of people in that scenario would of done the same thing. "Suddenly a horrible undead abomination" tends to be a 'time to roll initiative' time, especially given that Beau already ate poo poo on that once on this arc when 'suddenly spookums' caused her to instantly KO. I think if the intention was for them to try to negotiate, the situation could of been framed *WAY* better, or there really should have been some sort of consolation for negotiations immediately falling to poo poo. They basically just wasted a day for nothing.
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Aug 5, 2020 21:24
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Yeah, Matt 100% flubbed that whole setup if he intended it to be non-combat. The party had just walked through a grove of undead trees, found a displaced slice of the nine hells, then had a handful of literal souls of the damned appear speaking infernal and saying poo poo like how they want to steal their warmth. Boss ghost appears looking like a grim reaper, appears to scoff at Jester's offer, then immediately Matt calls for initiative and lays out the battle map. Everything about that situation screams combat. Then, later, Matt's npc somewhat derides them for going straight to violence, and he tells them as the DM that once Marisha had thrown the first punch, all hope for a negotiation was lost. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining or trying to say anyone sucks, just that I think this particular situation seems a little unfair to blame the players. Besides, how willing would they have been to ally with hell ghosts anyways, I wonder? Assuming that was the sole purpose of them being there as a side area.
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Aug 5, 2020 22:24
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Disappointing Pie posted:So if I barely have enough time to watch the episodes to begin with is this one worth a skip and just read a recap? Is it that rough? If anything, I’d watch up to the break and then bail. The second half isn’t that memorable unless you want to see people give Marisha a noogie for (understandably) punching a creepy ghost.
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Aug 5, 2020 23:16
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Plus, in literally the previous episode, Marisha said "this is the last time I try and negotiate" after getting downed by a monster in one hit after an attempt (albeit not a great one) to use words instead of fists. It's not surprising that she would have gone straight to punching.
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Aug 6, 2020 00:52
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 18:05 |
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I quite enjoyed that entire section, if only because the cast seemed to be having such a laugh heckling Marisha for what they all know is a misunderstanding and not really any kind of big deal. Including Marisha herself. She was very indignant in character as Beau, but Marisha herself seemed to see the humour in it and it meant the whole cast got to putz around for a few minutes. Including Sam/Veth "unintentionally" throwing shade at her. He did raise a good point though. If the ghosts are something they can tear through so easily, they probably wouldn't have been great allies anyway. They might have helped make things a little easier, but unless their aid was in suggesting a way to pull Vokoda out of his lair or something rather than martial support, they really aren't a big loss.
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Aug 6, 2020 00:54
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