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Abroham Lincoln posted:My 5 hour panic attack has finally concluded, can't wait till next week for another 5 hour panic attack Yeah, I like the cast but boy this show hasn't been good for my nerves in a while. Please give me some more goofy shopping episodes soon.
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Jan 29, 2021 09:27
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Jetrauben posted:Jeeeeeeesus gently caress. Nemo2342 posted:Yeah, I like the cast but boy this show hasn't been good for my nerves in a while. Please give me some more goofy shopping episodes soon. 
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Jan 29, 2021 09:33
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AJA posted:From the start (of the episode). You think Lucien was bad, try tail-sweep and breath weapon on prone PCs. It is loving hilarious that fighting a literal Ancient White Dragon who'd been previously encountered not only ended up being considerably less stressful than fighting Irish Edgelord From Hell and His Drinking Buddies, but with that illusion it was almost a brick joke in the end.
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Jan 29, 2021 09:37
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I still very much want TV IV > Critical Role (on Twitch/Youtube, yes) - and who are you to deny ashley johnson? so I can't in good conscience endorse your post, but I just want to say, TV IV > Critical Role (on Twitch/Youtube, yes) - less stressful than fighting Irish Edgelord From Hell is some top tier poo poo, too.
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Jan 29, 2021 09:53
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So Lucien has for combat: 1) Some Blood Hunter abilities (assume he has everything Molly had at least) 2) Legendary Saves and Actions (though the actions are either limited in some way or Matt just forgot them in the last fight) 3) A psychic melee attack that can do 70+ damage on a failed save 4) Immunity to most of our bullshit (charm, sleep, paralysis) 5) Assumed stats that are somewhat proportional to what Molly had (10 Str, 17 Dex, 14 Con, 11 Int, Wis 16, Cha 11 for reference) 6) An anti-magic cone that extends 60(?) feet 7) Potentially other powers from the other 8 eyes we haven't seen yet The rest of the Tomb Takers seemed to be fairly standard power-wise, with the exception of them all being able to imbue their weapons with bonus damage. I'm sure that won't everything, but it's a pretty sizeable stack of powers as-is.
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Jan 29, 2021 09:54
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I definitely think the Nein could take out the takers in a straight up fight right after a long rest, but going into a panic fight with fewer resources was a bad look. That anti-magic cone is the only major problem in my opinion, though Lucien probably still has at least one crazy thing he can do that he hasn't shown off yet. I hope they literally run non-stop to Essek's camp and then figure out what to do from there. Bonus if they managed to hang on to that Threshold crest they stole in all that chaos. I've been waiting for the Takers to do a power move, and nicking that bag of holding is a hell of a power move that made a lot of sense since the Nein did show them where they had the goods stashed, and they'd surely scryed on the Nein enough to realize that continuing to hang out with them wasn't going to end well.
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Jan 29, 2021 10:07
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NowonSA posted:I definitely think the Nein could take out the takers in a straight up fight right after a long rest, but going into a panic fight with fewer resources was a bad look. That anti-magic cone is the only major problem in my opinion, though Lucien probably still has at least one crazy thing he can do that he hasn't shown off yet. Plus Sam made two half-rear end attempts on Otis which didn't really help with any plans to go along for the ride.
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Jan 29, 2021 10:11
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I havent watched the ep yet but theres 240 unread posts since last evening so im curious wtf has happened
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Jan 29, 2021 10:24
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Nemo2342 posted:6) An anti-magic cone that extends 60(?) feet A superpowered anti-magic cone, no less. Normally anti-magic fields suppress magic spells and they return full-force when they leave the field's area, they don't just cancel the spell like it never happened. And even beholders can't fire their eye beams into their anti-magic cone, whereas Lucien seemed to have no trouble mind-blasting targets who were in the field. As for the legendary actions, I suspect that Mercer "forgot" about them during the second fight as a way to give the party a break.
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Jan 29, 2021 10:25
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:A superpowered anti-magic cone, no less. Normally anti-magic fields suppress magic spells and they return full-force when they leave the field's area, they don't just cancel the spell like it never happened. And even beholders can't fire their eye beams into their anti-magic cone, whereas Lucien seemed to have no trouble mind-blasting targets who were in the field.
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Jan 29, 2021 10:27
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:A superpowered anti-magic cone, no less. Normally anti-magic fields suppress magic spells and they return full-force when they leave the field's area, they don't just cancel the spell like it never happened. And even beholders can't fire their eye beams into their anti-magic cone, whereas Lucien seemed to have no trouble mind-blasting targets who were in the field. I'd put even money on him legitimately forgetting; everyone was getting worn out in that fight and flubbing mechanics due to the stress.
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Jan 29, 2021 11:04
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nothing I wrote was disproved by this continue your discussion Edit : btw, Essek is already the shadow hand, he may well already be the leader of the Lens redbrouw fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 12:28
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redbrouw posted:nothing I wrote was disproved by this continue your discussion You are pushing your luck on this poo poo, bud. Care to make a wager? I bet an av that the Dynasty plays a similar role to the dragon leader of Marquet, and nothing more, for the rest of the campaign. If I lose, especially if consecution ever plays a role again, I'll eat a toxx. Edit :added suggested spoiler text Kafka Esq. fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 13:29
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Kafka Esq. posted:You are pushing your luck on this poo poo, bud. Care to make a wager? I bet an av that the Dynasty plays a similar role to the dragon leader of Marquet, and nothing more, for the rest of the campaign. Not gonna lie, I'm a big fan of floaty hot boi. I'll take you up on that with the added caveat that if the whole thing accelerates past the dynasty and dunamancy stuff I'll be disappointed. It's much richer than the empire European bullshit.
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Jan 29, 2021 13:55
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TV IV > Critical Role (on Twitch/Youtube, yes) - I rolled a dragon!
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Jan 29, 2021 15:54
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I really want to know what Lucien's CR is because he's literally ten pounds of bullshit abilities in a five pound bag.
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Jan 29, 2021 16:06
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Got bad news for you CR is bullshit in general And doesn't take into account abilities. Sup Intellect Devourers and Spectre
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Jan 29, 2021 16:10
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Dexo posted:Got bad news for you CR is bullshit in general Yeah that is part of the joke.
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Jan 29, 2021 16:15
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Not fighting much earlier when they had the advantage or were at least even was a huge mistake, what a shocker. It's a tough but not unwinnable fight if they're at full power.Nemo2342 posted:I'd put even money on him legitimately forgetting; everyone was getting worn out in that fight and flubbing mechanics due to the stress. Some of it was was flubbed mechanics but some of it was just Matt trying not to kill them, because he definitely could have if he wanted. He didn't take several attacks of opportunity and he didn't move Lucien and his cone as far as he could have by not using his action to dash. I also wonder if the permanent dispelling effect the cone has on spells is deliberate or a mistake on Matt's part, because if it's a mistake then their plan would have worked out much better as any time Lucien shifted his gaze the ploymorphs would have reactivated. I guess at this point it should count as deliberate regardless because otherwise the story could have gone much differently. Senjuro fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 16:23
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not fighting earlier when the only thing they knew was how little they knew wasn't really a mistake, when it turns out that the tomb takers are a full, equally levelled rival party led by someone with super beholder abilities, legendary actions and resistances, and immunities to basically everything that can be used to take him out of the fight it's not unwinnable but it's probably the hardest single encounter they've ever had, with the highest risk of multiple deaths since Lorenzo if the outcome of this is the Tomb Takers are delayed a week or so while they go find another Crest and the party goes and gets Essek, that's really not so bad a deal and would be pretty narratively satisfying (since it'd let them have their climactic battle at the last possible minute, with the real risk of the city being summoned) eke out fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 16:33
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Senjuro posted:I also wonder if the permanent dispelling effect the cone has on spells is deliberate or a mistake on Matt's part, because if it's a mistake then their plan would have worked out much better as any time Lucien shifted his gaze the ploymorphs would have reactivated. I think Matt's been homeruling that Antimagic Fields permanently dispell magic item effects, at least, since that's how (Campaign 1 spoiler) they lost the flying carpet in C1 by flying it through a field during the Slayer's Take episodes . I also noticed his antimagic cone is far shorter reach than the Beholder one, which is out to 150, compared to what seems to be about 30 feet (hard to tell with the camera angles, though).
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Jan 29, 2021 16:41
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The carpet broke because of the acid, the anti magic field just made it go in the acid
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Jan 29, 2021 16:47
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Keru posted:I think Matt's been homeruling that Antimagic Fields permanently dispell magic item effects, at least, since that's how (Campaign 1 spoiler) they lost the flying carpet in C1 by flying it through a field during the Slayer's Take episodes . I also noticed his antimagic cone is far shorter reach than the Beholder one, which is out to 150, compared to what seems to be about 30 feet (hard to tell with the camera angles, though). What Pocky In My Pocket said. if all antimagic fields permanently dispelled all magic then non of their magic items would work anymore. eke out posted:not fighting earlier when the only thing they knew was how little they knew wasn't really a mistake, when it turns out that the tomb takers are a full, equally levelled rival party led by someone with super beholder abilities, legendary actions and resistances, and immunities to basically everything that can be used to take him out of the fight They've known the important part, that Luicen has some sort of mass dispel, for a while now. At any point since then when all the Tomb Takers were grouped up such as when they're sleeping or even just traveling they could have unleashed a whole bunch of AoE attacks on them from multiple angles with no warning and gained the upper hand but instead they waited until the inevitable fight came and they were on the back foot just as expected. Senjuro fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 16:58
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i don't think there's any reason whatsoever to believe that they could've ambushed the Tomb Takers while travelling together, while they were nearly constantly being watched by someone who doesn't sleep, has unlimited scrying, and probably had people keeping watch every night the one real chance would be if someone actually committed, without any pre-planning (like Travis did last night), during that lava fight and forced everyone else to go along with it by ruining any chance at cooperation. but even there it wouldn't have been a big dramatic surprise round, just whoever's ahead in initiative
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Jan 29, 2021 17:03
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eke out posted:i don't think there's any reason whatsoever to believe that they could've ambushed the Tomb Takers while travelling together, while they were nearly constantly being watched by someone who doesn't sleep, has unlimited scrying, and probably had people keeping watch every night We've seen just this episode that the Tomb Takers aren't impossible to surprise. They didn't notice the owls until they were practically on top of them.
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Jan 29, 2021 17:12
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:The carpet broke because of the acid, the anti magic field just made it go in the acid Oh yeah, you're right, I'm misremembering (but in my defense, I haven't rewatched those episodes since 2016 or so).
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Jan 29, 2021 17:23
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Travis put on a goddang clinic in that session. True paladin party leader vibes.
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Jan 29, 2021 18:24
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If they can get to Essek they should be able to do this. If they split into two groups they can have a powerful wizard, a sentinel user, a tanky fighter, and a cleric in two places that can't be nullified at the same time. Plus if they fight anywhere but open ground Veth might actually be able to get advantage. Edit:. Matt seemed to be making a point of a particular eye glowing when a particular power was being used. I wonder if a well placed cross bowbolt would disable the cone of anti-magic. Gangringo fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 18:45
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Gangringo posted:If they can get to Essek they should be able to do this. If they split into two groups they can have a powerful wizard, a sentinel user, a tanky fighter, and a cleric in two places that can't be nullified at the same time. Even on open ground, Veth has a Halfling racial that let's her hide behind her allies. Between that and sneak attacks for something already engaged she should be able to keep rolling sneak attacks. The anti magic field is just so brutal because the Nein have so many hard casters and because it hard dispels effects rather than just suppressing them and he doesn't manage a resource to use it. If it was like the beholder effect, they could have just put him in a position where he couldn't stop all the magic happening it would feel much less 'gently caress caleb/jester/cad in particular'. Hell if it was like a DM Fiat blood hunter power that required him to burn health for every effect he canceled that would also be a lot less bullshit. As is its just 'rocks fall casters eat poo poo'. Getting to Essek isn't going to help since it's another hard caster added to the list. The more we learn about Lucien and his abilities, the less I like about him and his presence in the story. He's all knowing and omnipotent with essentially free scrying all day every day, is king of the wizard killers and effectively came out of nowhere. If Matt had seeded of the eyes of nine earlier in the story and established that the people carrying the eye tattoos had special abilities above and beyond the regular chumps then it would of made it far more significant when lucien wanders back into the plot with a whole bunch of them. As is it just feels like some neighborhood gang toughs just accidentally bumbled into God powers - the whole Molly thing not withstanding. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 20:05
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:A superpowered anti-magic cone, no less. Normally anti-magic fields suppress magic spells and they return full-force when they leave the field's area, they don't just cancel the spell like it never happened. And even beholders can't fire their eye beams into their anti-magic cone, whereas Lucien seemed to have no trouble mind-blasting targets who were in the field. For the mind blasting, it could be the case that psionics aren't affected by magic and vice versa. That was one method suggested in the DM"s guide in 3e. That would give Lucien mind blasting powers without having to worry about it. It would have to be consistent though, so anything the M9 or their allies did that was psionic would just ignore it. Though like others have said, some of this did seem kind of bullshit. Gotta give the players a chance, even if it's a lovely one. seaborgium fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 20:21
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DeathSandwich posted:Even on open ground, Veth has a Halfling racial that let's her hide behind her allies. Between that and sneak attacks for something already engaged she should be able to keep rolling sneak attacks. On one hand Lucien's powers do feel incredibly unfair, on the other hand it might just be what's required to give the M9 an actually dangerous opponent. But as I've posted earlier, he's tough but not unbeatable. There's now a hard limit on the range of his Antimagic Field, only 30ft which is less than the range of many offensive spells, and we've also seen how much less effective the Tomb Takers are at range. There's ways to exploit this, the M9 just need to play it smart. Senjuro fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 20:27
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And thus did Matt Mercer teach his childrens about the (blood)Hunter Dead Zone, and also how to kite.
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Jan 29, 2021 20:41
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DeathSandwich posted:Getting to Essek isn't going to help since it's another hard caster added to the list. Getting to Essek does help because if Essek and Caleb split up that's at least one piece of heavy magic artillery that can go off each round. They won't be able to keep up the crazy buffs and polymorphs they usually do, but on the plus side that means they're actually encouraged to just go ham on a single target without overthinking it.
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Jan 29, 2021 20:47
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Why do wizards and wizards society keep around anti magic golems and books that make you anti magic tattoo person? Seems counterproductive.
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Jan 29, 2021 20:58
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DeathSandwich posted:Even on open ground, Veth has a Halfling racial that let's her hide behind her allies. Between that and sneak attacks for something already engaged she should be able to keep rolling sneak attacks. I certainly won't argue that Lucien's stuff isn't some Grade-A bullshit, but at least knowing that his anti-magic 1) is a cone 2) has a medium(ish) range and 3) is oriented on how Lucien is facing does open up options we didn't have when it seemed like he could just wave his hand and turn off all magic. I think priority 1 right now is getting rid of that drat threshold crest. There's no longer room for negotiation, and holding on to the crest means that the Tomb Takers can kill the M9 AND advance their goals at once. If they ditch the crest the Tomb Takers will have to decide on prioritizing getting another one over hunting down the M9. Also RIP Ves Derogna. Her body is inside the amber with the other threshold crest, and once Lucien anti-magics it to get the crest out that body is going to be gone.
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Jan 29, 2021 20:59
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redbrouw posted:Why do wizards and wizards society keep around anti magic golems and books that make you anti magic tattoo person? Seems counterproductive. "I never though leopards would eat my face!" says local man who made a face eating leopard.
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Jan 29, 2021 20:59
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D&D Wizard fights.jpg
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Jan 29, 2021 21:10
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I've seen the double counterspell and now all I can think about is the triple counterspell
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Jan 29, 2021 21:22
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DeathSandwich posted:"I never though leopards would eat my face!" says local man who made a face eating leopard. Yeah, I think its very much this. Also I would like to politely disagree with some of the talk that has been going on for the past few pages about "speed" and "pacing". I felt that this was a lot more tense and a lot more fun to watch than the Rumblecusp situation and, whilst not being as immediately as cool as the fight against Oban, has the potential to be a great arc. First off, lets make some allowances for COVID because, obviously, poo poo like that is going to cause issues with even the best set up. Second I think that the way they kept getting stuck in the ice was what forced the continue melodrama talking points. If they'd reached Aeor by this point they probably would have had a fight w/ Lucien already but instead the slowing down felt more natural. Third, I think that just letting them be a team around each other gives folks a lot of fun to play around, whereas some section which are purely combat just don't grab as well. And finally, I am going to say that I actually found a lot of the whole Chroma Conclave arc... deeply boring. It felt very... I am not exactly sure of the correct term but it felt kind of weightless in some ways, even though it was supposed to be impactful? Though, alongside that, I didn't like VM half as much as I like M9.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:27
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redbrouw posted:Why do wizards and wizards society keep around anti magic golems and books that make you anti magic tattoo person? Seems counterproductive. It is the leopard eating faces thing, but also high level wizards who are prepared can usually handle or run away from anything that isn't another wizard. If you need to guard something or protect yourself, having a way to shut down other magic users while you fireball/cloudkill/whatever the melee people makes it possible. As we saw, once you drop the casting from a wizard or a cleric, they're a lot less dangerous. Doubly so if you can control when magic doesn't work so it's only them who can't do something but you can fireball to your hearts content or just teleport away if you need to.
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Jan 29, 2021 22:27
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