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Man this has shown how horrible people even in the wonderful feel-good hugfest that the CritRole community tends to be can end up being. Seen way too many people so distraught over Molly dying that they're blaming Ronin, Laura and Travis' kid. Or verbatim saying "If Travis had kept it in his pants Molly would still be alive..."
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Jul 14, 2018 06:16
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Arthil posted:Man this has shown how horrible people even in the wonderful feel-good hugfest that the CritRole community tends to be can end up being. I don't mean to blow your mind but never ever dig into the fan community, its always terrible without fail you just don't see it when everything is fine.
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Jul 14, 2018 07:35
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Video if anyone wants to cry again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy7pgxA6Ifg Next TalksMachina will be a must watch, it's Ashly, Matt and Taliesin Adnor fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 08:56
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Arthil posted:Man this has shown how horrible people even in the wonderful feel-good hugfest that the CritRole community tends to be can end up being. I was joking about this kind of eventual reaction in my head. Fans are the most amazing things. Love a piece of work and creators to bits right up until something happens that isn't expected and the pitch forks and torches come out. Everyone knows it's Liam's parents fault anyway! If they hadn't have had him he wouldn't have a birthday DnD session and none of this goddamn mess would have happened!
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Jul 14, 2018 11:46
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Literally only hours after the episode aired, Marisha had to tweet that people needed to stop harassing Ashly Burch and blaming her for Molly's death so yeah, it didn't take long for people to start trying to blame someone. Ironically, the only person at fault is Taliesin. He'd have probably lived if he just hadn't used blood maladict.
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Jul 14, 2018 12:16
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How about it’s a loving game and that’s what happens in games? Welcome to D&D.
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Jul 14, 2018 14:40
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I'm a couple episodes behind on CR due to traveling but I've heard enough regarding the previous episode to get the gist of what went down and I cannot believe any of the backlash I've seen over this. It's all ridiculous. I have to say though my personal favorite response was someone accusing Matt of becoming a manipulative, power-gaming DM who only cares about toying with his player's lives and causing pain to them (and the fanbase, of course); after one death in 26 sessions. That and "Kidnapping players when they're not there" to defend themselves, which I think they missed the part where that was Matt implementing an excuse to take three characters out of the action whose players aren't around. And by favorite I mean "What is going on." Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 16:32
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Aaaaand with that, it's a good time to remind everyone that there are many teens watching this show. Teens are NOT known for their emotional maturity. 
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Jul 14, 2018 17:13
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Bad Seafood posted:I'm a couple episodes behind on CR due to traveling but I've heard enough regarding the previous episode to get the gist of what went down and I cannot believe any of the backlash I've seen over this. It's all ridiculous. Although I've seen these reactions, I've only seen them disparately on Twitter or Youtube. I haven't found a large repository of them yet. Are they mostly on Tumblr or Reddit? EDIT: Yep, mostly Tumblr. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 17:45
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Okay I take it something huge happened and I am trying not to spoil myself but who is being dickwads and how are the cast holding up? Please say that they are okay and/or calling people out for freaking out about something.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:08
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Josef bugman posted:Okay I take it something huge happened and I am trying not to spoil myself but who is being dickwads and how are the cast holding up? Dice fell where they may and some people didn't like that. Now they're looking for something to blame other than the dice, and being very immature about it.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:13
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Pollyanna posted:Dice fell where they may and some people didn't like that. Now they're looking for something to blame other than the dice, and being very immature about it. Oh dear. Are the crew and staff being shouted at on Twitter in a none jokey "YOU DICKS!1!" kind of way?
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Jul 14, 2018 18:18
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Josef bugman posted:Oh dear. Are the crew and staff being shouted at on Twitter in a none jokey "YOU DICKS!1!" kind of way? On the night of I saw mostly support on Twitter, so I might've missed the poo poo ones.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:22
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Josef bugman posted:Oh dear. Are the crew and staff being shouted at on Twitter in a none jokey "YOU DICKS!1!" kind of way? I don't think it's a big deal. With any audience you'll have the vocal 5% who say or do stupid poo poo. In 5 days it's water under the fridge.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:22
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Josef bugman posted:Oh dear. Are the crew and staff being shouted at on Twitter in a none jokey "YOU DICKS!1!" kind of way? The grand majority of people are supportive and protective of the cast. Others are having trouble understanding it and assigning fault to the DM or players. It usually takes the form of "this is ruining me and someone in particular is the cause". And then a few people are noting Ashly Burch's presence and taking the opportunity to go full Gamergate, which is just kinda fuckin' typical.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:26
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Pollyanna posted:The grand majority of people are supportive and protective of the cast. Others are having trouble understanding it and assigning fault to the DM or players. It usually takes the form of "this is ruining me and someone in particular is the cause". Okay, well I hope things get resolved well. I hope so anyway.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:30
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Phimose Knight posted:Aaaaand with that, it's a good time to remind everyone that there are many teens watching this show. Teens are NOT known for their emotional maturity. Regardless, I don't really care how old you are, don't wish harm on other people - especially not over anything so petty as a televised game of D&D. Pollyanna posted:Although I've seen these reactions, I've only seen them disparately on Twitter or Youtube. I haven't found a large repository of them yet. Are they mostly on Tumblr or Reddit? Personally, I kinda hope it sticks - it's the sort of thing that can only really happen in a tabletop game, unscripted. But it's Matt's table and so long as the players are all on the same page, I'll deal.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:33
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Bad Seafood posted:They're not; nor is a depressingly larger-than-expected pool of 20/30-somethings who've been plugged into Internet culture for most of their lives. The person responsible for the remark I referenced claimed to be 24, and I've definitely met people older than them who've made a bigger stink about even less. I'm hoping it sticks too, personally. I would roll my eyes until I'm staring at the back of my skull if they run into a priest with access to Raise Dead, or if the New Guest plays someone with the spell. Sure, you don't get to see the rest of this character's story... but I mean, whenever a main character dies on ANY piece of media, it's a good chance to do fun drama and storytelling. Moreso in an RP, where the story is written by 5 people around a table in real time.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:46
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It also sucks because Sam and Travis do the exact same type of thing and people love them for it. Also a shame because Ashly is really really good at improv dnding and I’d prefer her to be on more.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:57
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Taliesin seems most open to the idea of just taking a death and re-rolling, maybe followed by Sam. Remember, he's had the broad strokes of Molly ready since Ripley killed Percy.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:58
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Bad Seafood posted:I'm a couple episodes behind on CR due to traveling but I've heard enough regarding the previous episode to get the gist of what went down and I cannot believe any of the backlash I've seen over this. It's all ridiculous. Yeah that is some nonsense right there, from top to bottom. There was one death that stuck in campaign 1 and it took forever to get there, and Matt's been upping the difficulty since everyone knows what they're doing more now so a death was bound to happen sometimes. It's actually come later than I expected it to. I'm actually glad it worked out this way since Matt clearly designed the fight for them to get their asses kicked without perfect rolls and perfect planning and execution in battle, and having at least one casualty is a proper cost and consequence of trying to engage when outnumbered and when you should be uncertain you can trust the newcomer to fight against them and keep their poo poo together. I was expecting them to all get captured and taken along with the slavers once I saw they had no hope of victory, and that's the cop-out to avoid just killing all of them, but letting them go to spread their rep is a good enough reason for me to go with too. It's a far better reason than when combat in my campaign against a demon fell apart entirely with people running away from the fight while others kept it up and the Demon was ultimately like "Cool, I'll let half of you go since I want you to bring something back to me instead of just melting you all." and was just a bit too blatantly DM mercy. What I'm really left curious about is if Matt would have killed Molly without the Maledict serving him up on a silver platter, like if Lorenzo would have knocked him down, hit him again for 2 more saves and called someone else to finish him off, or if he'd just knock him down and move on to other targets, leaving a chance for Beau to sneak over with a healing potion or something and then all of them could presumably try to run the hell away. I also just realized that this is totally going to dominate the SDCC panel and it's going to be fun fun fun!
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Jul 14, 2018 19:01
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They could have rolled 20s the entire fight and still would have lost badly. Nott should have been one-shotted by the Cone of Cold but he mixed up Evasion and Uncanny Dodge.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:05
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I'm just waiting for the inevitable "we as viewers of Critical Role demand this particular behavior from the DM and players" online petition.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:06
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Phimose Knight posted:I'm hoping it sticks too, personally. I would roll my eyes until I'm staring at the back of my skull if they [spoiler]run into a priest with access to Raise Dead, or if the New Guest plays someone with the spell. Sure, you don't get to see the rest of this character's story... but I mean, whenever a main character dies on ANY piece of media, it's a good chance to do fun drama and storytelling. Moreso in an RP, where the story is written by 5 people around a table in real time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people who've been chomping at the bit for Matt to kill somebody (despite my commentary about consequences earlier), but I think - now that someone's actually dead - they'd be overlooking a unique opportunity to grow as characters and cultivate a new story stemming from that death. Besides which, no offense to Matt but Blood Hunter still seems pretty flawed mechanically - and Molly offing himself by accident is kinda the ultimate proof in the pudding. I think Taliesin would have a lot more fun in combat if he just rolled up a new character. EDIT: Also, as an on-and-off DM myself, I've gotta be honest and admit having a villain you introduced straight-up execute a PC is a phenomenal power move that's sure to incite your players to hate him or her like nothing else. Obviously not something you wanna bust out willy nilly, but as a once-off narrative device, holy moly. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 19:13
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latest episode spoiler It was kinda late for me so I may have missed it but didn't Lorenzo and crew take Molly's body with them? Even with access to a high level enough priest, without a body it makes things a tad harder for Molly's return. I hope it sticks anyway. Good for drama and story beats. Edit: Let's begin speculation for Taliesin's next character. He's either going to go full plate, sword and board, Paladin or some kind of Ranger, I bet Fake edit: Or be the beta tester for Matt's next homebrew Hulk Smash! fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 19:17
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Hulk Smash! posted:latest episode spoiler It was kinda late for me so I may have missed it but didn't Lorenzo and crew take Molly's body with them? Even with access to a high level enough priest, without a body it makes things a tad harder for Molly's return. I hope it sticks anyway. Good for drama and story beats. They took the one caster that the MIX managed to put down. Druid, I think? The Nein haven't even had a chance to mourn yet. People are saying Blood Cleric and that's probably ON THE MONEY considering Taliesin loves playtesting Matt's stuff, I'm hoping for a Warforged of any class (though leaning towards Paladin), hopefully with at least a Good alignment considering the lack of a moral compass at the moment.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:27
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One thing to remember is that it seems pretty clear that Matt had no intention of killing Molly. The first hit would have knocked him out, the second hit would've taken two saves, and Molly would've had his little special item pop and stabilize him on his turn. But by using the blood maledict and thus knocking himself out at a point where Matt had already committed Lorenzo to action, there was really nothing he could do but use the two attacks as he planned and kill him. If he backed Lorenzo off it would've been, like, reverse powergaming.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:38
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I'm not gonna say I would be either surprised or disappointed if Matt was able to give them a chance for him to be rezzed. After all temples are supposed to have a semi standardized price for resurrection, they have an EXTREMELY valuable relic as collateral they can barter with if all else fails, and simply put, Molly has a lot more investment than a typical PC of his level since he has a custom model, a fanbase, and is one of the iconic characters. Plus, well, permadeath honestly is rarely dramatically satisfying. It's a relic of the Gygaxian idea that you're supposed to go through early characters like kleenex, and I get the impression that Taliesen put a fair bit of what he's really been wanting to play into Molly, and any replacement character would probably come off as half baked at first. Ultimately no matter what the outcome, Lorenzo has immediately got Presence and plot value, and I'd expect Matt to make him a person who matters now.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:47
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Phimose Knight posted:People are saying Blood Cleric and that's probably ON THE MONEY considering Taliesin loves playtesting Matt's stuff, I'm hoping for a Warforged of any class (though leaning towards Paladin), hopefully with at least a Good alignment considering the lack of a moral compass at the moment.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:50
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Based on Matt's extra special resurrection rules and the way every other NPC has reacted to resurrection, this isn't standard Forgotten Realms revolving afterlife door bullshit. There probably isn't a set price for resurrection spells or very common to find a priest capable of casting one. Also wow gently caress everyone trying to blame Ashly Burch for any of this like it's a war crime.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:51
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Malpais Legate posted:Based on Matt's extra special resurrection rules and the way every other NPC has reacted to resurrection, this isn't standard Forgotten Realms revolving afterlife door bullshit. There probably isn't a set price for resurrection spells or very common to find a priest capable of casting one. I think there's healers capable of resurrection in Zadash, which is something like 6 days away. They've also got the Orb and some gold, so if they can get to Zadash they should be able to get Molly resurrected. There's also the possibility of a guest cleric next week, intervention from a god or other powerful being that demands something from the Mighty Nein in return, or Molly coming back without his memories or with his old Lucien memory.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:23
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chitoryu12 posted:I think there's healers capable of resurrection in Zadash, which is something like 6 days away. They've also got the Orb and some gold, so if they can get to Zadash they should be able to get Molly resurrected. There's also the possibility of a guest cleric next week, intervention from a god or other powerful being that demands something from the Mighty Nein in return, or Molly coming back without his memories or with his old Lucien memory. Don't forget that Matt also released a homebrew class specifically for characters that die. That's probably the more likely outcome, the other being that Taliesin just makes a new character.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:38
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Oh gently caress I forgot about the Lost Soul or whatever. That would be neat to see!
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Jul 14, 2018 20:42
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Malpais Legate posted:Oh gently caress I forgot about the Lost Soul or whatever. That would be neat to see! And could easily fit Molly's whole story with whatever Lucien was doing.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:44
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I do think it's possible that the guest shows up next week COULD be a cleric because somebody asked Matt weeks ago if the guests understood the party comp and what was needed and he confirmed they did. Ashly was clearly meant to fill the tank role vacated by Yasha and I'm guessing we were going to get a healer next week, though it might not be a cleric. Even if the guest is a cleric though, they likely wouldn't have a diamond of the necessary value on them.
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Jul 14, 2018 22:41
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Revivify needs to be done within 60 seconds. It's meant as a during or immediately post-battle rez. Raise Dead is a 5th level spell. You need to be 9th level to cast it. It's gonna be 'do a quest to find a cleric who'll be willing to do it/pay through the nose for it' or nothing.
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Jul 14, 2018 23:05
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Whoops, you're right. I thought that second spell was lower level than it is.
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Jul 14, 2018 23:20
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Pollyanna posted:Don't forget that Matt also released a homebrew class specifically for characters that die. That's probably the more likely outcome, the other being that Taliesin just makes a new character. Yeah that's what came to mind as I was reading the posts. Lost Soul is all kinds of funky and crazy, it would kind of make story sense for whatever Molly's weird deal is but it's a class that is just so not the typical situation that it's hard to imagine them being able to keep up with its craziness on the stream, even with the guy who literally invented it right there. Like, if I remember you don't even have a physical body you just haunt an item, people need to carry you to where you want to go, it's just all kinds of zany. I kind of want to try it at some point, but for the purposes of Critrole I'm more hoping that they run into a Lost Soul at some point either as a possible ally or an enemy, rather than trying to run it week to week. My best guess is that he shows up with a Druid to further pad out healing and spellcasting, and there's just something in my gut that says Talieesin has a funky druid idea in him. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 23:36
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NowonSA posted:Yeah that's what came to mind as I was reading the posts. I hope whoever his character is, he keeps up the charming bullshitter thing. That was my favorite part of Molly; Tal is really really good at that kind of improv and character.
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Jul 15, 2018 00:04
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NowonSA posted:Yeah that's what came to mind as I was reading the posts. I was curious about this class and if anyone else is too, you can read about it here I agree it's neat but maybe not feasible right now. I'm not sure Molly's really got an appropriate kind of fierce attachment to someone/something/some goal that is so strong it keeps his soul there - there's lots of good things to say about his character and he's certainly friends, but I don't think it goes far enough. I could see like it totally working narratively for Nott, who has an incredibly strong, protective connection to another group member she prioritizes above herself.
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Jul 15, 2018 00:23
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