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It really feels like the end of the city arc will be the end of the campaign, at least the way it's being treated. Trent may or may not get absorbed into the floating city/disintegrated by Caleb, the cloven crystal can fling off into the Astral Sea (the only ocean Ukatoa can't control), and everyone else can go back to their respective families and retire from adventuring. It would be a happy ending, assuming no one eats a perma-death. Also I would love for a mini-arc of something like Vampire the Masquerade. I know they did a one-shot but that really didn't feel like a proper game. If people want long RP sessions and hardcore melodrama, VtM would be perfect for it. Liam would be in his element.
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Mar 29, 2021 18:29
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HoboTech posted:It really feels like the end of the city arc will be the end of the campaign, at least the way it's being treated. Trent may or may not get absorbed into the floating city/disintegrated by Caleb, the cloven crystal can fling off into the Astral Sea (the only ocean Ukatoa can't control), and everyone else can go back to their respective families and retire from adventuring. It would be a happy ending, assuming no one eats a perma-death. Trent is not the Assembly though, and while Caleb hates Trent the most vehemently he has indicated that he dislikes the entire Assembly and how they operate and not just Trent. It'd be weird to just go "you know what, minus Trent they're fine" at this point, when multiple characters have talked about how shady Ludinus is despite seeming nice for instance, and his assistant was the one who was planting the demonic portals. Which implies that Ludinus may have had a hand in that whole sublplot, which was kind of left dangling beyond destroying the active portals too if I recall.
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Mar 29, 2021 18:43
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tsob posted:Trent is not the Assembly though, and while Caleb hates Trent the most vehemently he has indicated that he dislikes the entire Assembly and how they operate and not just Trent. It'd be weird to just go "you know what, minus Trent they're fine" at this point, when multiple characters have talked about how shady Ludinus is despite seeming nice for instance, and his assistant was the one who was planting the demonic portals. Which implies that Ludinus may have had a hand in that whole sublplot, which was kind of left dangling beyond destroying the active portals too if I recall. and, regardless of his involvement in that specific plot, it's extremely clear people like Ludinus are just as evil as Trent but in different ways, happy to allow him to go on doing his crimes against humanity because they're mutually useful also we still need the VM crossover event and it's probably going to come after the city arc is dealt with. i definitely do not think that quote:the cloven crystal can fling off into the Astral Sea (the only ocean Ukatoa can't control), and everyone else can go back to their respective families and retire from adventuring is a likely resolution to the Ukatoa arc lol. my best guess is that it and some other betrayer cults are the endgame, as a final post-city arc that's a proper global crisis. the only way it feels like the city could be the end of everything is if Lucien outright wins and summons it into Exandria and then we have a full on World of Ruin existential threat to everyone (which will take a while to resolve and basically be a part 2 of the arc) eke out fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Mar 29, 2021 |
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Mar 29, 2021 18:48
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In reading up on Ludinus to double check something I saw he was from Molaesymr and I really hope the Nein investigate there at some point too, because it's always sounded cool and has a tie to both Aoer and the Savilirwood. The Star Razor was originally forged there as well, apparently.
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Mar 29, 2021 19:36
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I definitely dont think trent will follow them to the north. And based on the past few episodes i dont think cads story is entirely done. They havent touched really on Yashas tribe at all which could turn up. Personally i'm not feeling any urge for the campaign to end soon. I'm still enjoying everything and the longer rp amounts probably comes from the characters being a bit more 3d than c1. The main thing making it feel weird is the distanced studio. Its a very good attempt at a bad situation, but the distance is noticable in its own way. Curious how the new sponsored elder scrolls thing is gonna go.
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Mar 29, 2021 20:03
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:Curious how the new sponsored elder scrolls thing is gonna go. If it's anything like the Liam and Laura Baldur's Gate stream, it should be fun. They seemed to enjoy goofing on the game together.
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Mar 29, 2021 21:05
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:I definitely dont think trent will follow them to the north. And based on the past few episodes i dont think cads story is entirely done. They havent touched really on Yashas tribe at all which could turn up. Yeah, I don't actually think Taliensin is going to retire Cadeuces; I just think he's the only other player that there's any possibility will do so after Veth, since he's talked on occasion like he just misses his home and would prefer to stay there given the option.
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Mar 29, 2021 21:07
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tsob posted:Yeah, I don't actually think Taliensin is going to retire Cadeuces; I just think he's the only other player that there's any possibility will do so after Veth, since he's talked on occasion like he just misses his home and would prefer to stay there given the option. yeah he's one of the people most explicitly invested in "i want to help the others come to terms with themselves and be better people" so while i'm sure he'll settle down eventually I don't think he's retiring until they've mutually agreed on it
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Mar 29, 2021 21:10
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I mean yeah, they could take down the entire CA, go deal with the goblin tribe that turned Veth into Nott, there's probably still more to do with the magical soul rocks for the Dynasty, the Chained Oblivion cult is still kicking around, etc. There's a ton of stuff they could do and they can certainly stretch the campaign out for easily another half a year or more if they wanted, it just feels like they're trying to tie things together and wrap a bunch of stuff up. Caduceus has straight up said that he's done after the city, and Veth would have very little reason to keep going once her family is safe, and I really don't think they'll be introducing new permenent characters at lvl 15 or whatever. I think Veth even brought up that she wanted to go ninja-assassin and take down the CA, at some point and the rest of the party was like "why?", so who knows what their stance on that is now. Really if the players and Matt want to keep going, they'll find reasons, and if they want to stop then Matt will probably have to make an announcement that "This is a game and not a movie, sometimes things don't end cleanly" and hope people who've never played tabletop can accept that. I guess we'll find out eventually because who knows how long the city itself will take to wrap up, especially if they're too late and it gets out of the Astral.
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Mar 29, 2021 21:22
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HoboTech posted:I mean yeah, they could take down the entire CA, go deal with the goblin tribe that turned Veth into Nott, there's probably still more to do with the magical soul rocks for the Dynasty, the Chained Oblivion cult is still kicking around, etc. There's a ton of stuff they could do and they can certainly stretch the campaign out for easily another half a year or more if they wanted, it just feels like they're trying to tie things together and wrap a bunch of stuff up. Caduceus has straight up said that he's done after the city, and Veth would have very little reason to keep going once her family is safe, and I really don't think they'll be introducing new permenent characters at lvl 15 or whatever. I think Veth even brought up that she wanted to go ninja-assassin and take down the CA, at some point and the rest of the party was like "why?", so who knows what their stance on that is now. The only time I remember the group being divided on whether or not to go after people was whether they should go after them specifically for their culpability in the war between the Dynasty and the Empire, and would do so at the risk of accelerating the war again. Which Caleb was against if I recall. Not against them going after the Assembly full stop. Also, if Sam could introduce Taryon at level 15 while everyone else was a level or two ahead of him then I'm pretty sure Sam can introduce a new character when everyone is level 15 if he wants.
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Mar 29, 2021 21:37
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tsob posted:I mean, people in this thread have said they think this arc is basically the sunset of the campaign and that even if they survive that they probably won't go for much longer but just this last episode Jester was setting up post-Somnovum stuff for Fjord with Vandrin and Caleb still has to sort stuff out with the Cerberus Assembly (which goes beyond Trent, even if he's the primary face of it). While Fjord's thing could be relatively quick and simple, or even an epilogue really, Caleb's really couldn't be. Beau's story with The Cobalt Soul also ties in to that, though it does feel like she's kind of rounded it out just by both rising to a position of respect in the Cobalt Soul and earning respect herself, along with getting some degree of peace in her personal life. Still, I imagine both Matt and Marisha could find more drama to mine in that while muddling through Caleb's story, since there's so much crossover in them. My speculation is that Lucien does a dick move and when going through the bag they stole finds the cloven crystal that Fjord told him attracted sea monsters, and just casually tosses it into the ocean. They get back from the Astral sea, get their immediate affairs settled around the time Ukatoa gets released, causing the band to get back together for one last job before they all go their separate ways and scatter to the four corners to hide from the Cerebrus Assembly assassins.
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Mar 29, 2021 22:09
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DeathSandwich posted:My speculation is that Lucien does a dick move and when going through the bag they stole finds the cloven crystal that Fjord told him attracted sea monsters, and just casually tosses it into the ocean. They get back from the Astral sea, get their immediate affairs settled around the time Ukatoa gets released, causing the band to get back together for one last job before they all go their separate ways and scatter to the four corners to hide from the Cerebrus Assembly assassins. This would be a few days detour for lucian
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Mar 29, 2021 22:13
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Yashas tribe is gonna be a betrayer cult probably. I do think we're likely to get a time skip after this arc though. Give veth family time, the crew gets a chance to relax a bit before the other betrayer demigods gain steam or the assembly does something to gently caress up social order which really seems like the only way their whole deal can go now that their ranks are destabilized, some of their agents are slowly turning on them and they've gotten their hand on some.dangerous poo poo they don't understand and will probably get more following this arc or the demigod cults arc. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Mar 29, 2021 |
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Mar 29, 2021 22:33
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After Luke's death I don't think Veth is just gonna take a short break and go back to adventuring honestly. She's outskies for good, barring Jester returning in an epilogue for them to set up a detective agency or something. That'd be much lower stakes though, so I can see her doing that at least.
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Mar 29, 2021 22:46
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tsob posted:After Luke's death I don't think Veth is just gonna take a short break and go back to adventuring honestly. She's outskies for good, barring Jester returning in an epilogue for them to set up a detective agency or something. That'd be much lower stakes though, so I can see her doing that at least. I can see that but also given her husband's desire for revenge and the assembly being who they are I dunno if they'll let her stay out of it.
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Mar 29, 2021 22:51
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Current theory is that this is probably not the penultimate arc, but the one before that. To me it goes; Big city -> The Assembly -> Murder the Gods. Alongside that I think that the characters have been around for a while and haven't "changed" much in a while. The other problem with it is that D&D is really bad at doing exploration. It claims that is a pillar but it's not even a plinth and the whole section on the boat and on the frozen wastes drags, or feels like it drags, because it is the most "gamey" part of the setting. I do think there is going to be a time skip in between the assembly and the final arc though.
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Mar 30, 2021 00:55
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I think the smart money is on a timeskip after this arc. Have an episode or two to go over how each of the PCs deals with a year and change of downtime before getting the band back together for killing Tharizdun or whatever
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Mar 30, 2021 00:58
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I don't see "murder the gods" being a thing at all honestly. Vox Machina was level 20, wildly overpowered even by D&D standards, had a bunch of MacGuffins to help them, and they still struggled against Vecna who wasn't even fully ascended at the time. The only other deity-like thing they fought was that fallen god in the Search For Grog one-shot and that was after millenia of going crazy and getting weaker. Matt very clearly likes his deities untouchable.
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Mar 30, 2021 01:05
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I just watched Sam's commercial from last week. even if it did turn out good.
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Mar 30, 2021 01:34
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Pinwiz11 posted:I just watched Sam's commercial from last week. My reaction was like Tal’s. I was so into the chaos of it. I really wish the rest of the cast had made good on going wild with what got cut and what didn’t.
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Mar 30, 2021 01:37
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I mostly just think they won't push overly hard to get to level 20, notthat there's any shortage of material.
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Mar 30, 2021 01:51
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Matt has said several times the campaign will be done when the narrative is done and that may or may not be level 20 so there is just that to keep in mind. Though I do think they have enough material already baked in to get there.
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Mar 30, 2021 03:25
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Dameius posted:Matt has said several times the campaign will be done when the narrative is done and that may or may not be level 20 so there is just that to keep in mind. Though I do think they have enough material already baked in to get there.  As for the VM vs M9 one shot, I had the feeling since it was a Kickstarter goal that it would be a Colville one shot. We haven't seen Colville this campaign, so I'm thoroughly expecting it to be this.
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Mar 30, 2021 03:40
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The Repo Man posted:
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Mar 30, 2021 04:04
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That was a pretty good episode, although the decision paralysis/belated "bridge-burner's guilt" about whether to try and get Trent to help was tiresome. That was an obvious non-starter which they spent a bunch of time agonizing over under the utterly bizarre assumption that despite doing their best to burn bridges and antagonize him over the past few episodes, Trent would happily pop over with friends to help if they asked. Looking forward to the next episode, though. I am glad that Beau (or Jester?) suggested that Essek should recall his lookouts so as to not tip Lucian off. On the other hand, regular stealth does seem to work, as Lucian never noticed Dagan following them. I also like their plans to try and ambush him a little way in, not too close, not too far so that he can't run away and look for another entrance so easily. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 04:59
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Essek's been having a rough time but unlike when that happens to most NPCs I like, I'm just like, ah, here it is, the consequences of his own actions that he's still mostly dodged. Like tbh the actual stuff that would definitely happen to him if the Bright Queen figured it out would not be amusing at all, but crippling stress, anxiety, and guilt on account of having started a war is pretty well deserved.
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Mar 30, 2021 05:43
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I think Essek is going to die for sure. He's got so many targets on him at this point.
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Mar 30, 2021 07:59
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PetraCore posted:I mostly just think they won't push overly hard to get to level 20, notthat there's any shortage of material. I don't think anyone in the group cares particularly about getting to level 20 but I do think that a centuries old Elven archmage like Ludinus who heads up one of the most powerful organizations in the campaign probably requires being close to level 20 to beat. Or at least, closer than level 14. He's presumably more powerful than Trent too, since I think he was Trent's teacher. Or at least has spoken about him as a disappointing student before, implying he's older and more powerful than Trent. I also think that if they get to say level 18 and still have some road to run if they want that they might just go "gently caress it, it's two levels" where if they ran out of road at 15 that they'd probably leave it go. Also, for people who keep hoping for a Chroma Conclave style moment, the Assembly could very well be the ones to provide it since it's a group of really strong and connected individuals who all distrust one another and so have a lot of internal politics to take advantage of but could turn the entire setting upside down with the right circumstances and the various people have an internal hierarchy that provides a ladder of opponents to beat to keep getting to the top and finally put them all down. If Ludinus really is messing with demonic forces and his assistant was just a fall guy or disposable accomplice, he could use that kind of power to throw the empire and even the Dynasty in to chaos quite quickly too. Antifa Spacemarine posted:I think Essek is going to die for sure. He's got so many targets on him at this point. Isn't Trent the only target we know about at the moment? Essek is paranoid that the Dynasty has a target on him too, but also thinks being out of the way makes him too much hassle to bother with even if it's true. tsob fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 09:21
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If there's a time skip after this arc and a presumable level up then the timing is perfect for Caleb to setup a clone repository for everyone. If having that kind of anti-death insurance doesn't get this group to stop being so gunshy then nothing will.
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Mar 30, 2021 09:46
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tsob posted:I don't think anyone in the group cares particularly about getting to level 20 but I do think that a centuries old Elven archmage like Ludinus who heads up one of the most powerful organizations in the campaign probably requires being close to level 20 to beat. Or at least, closer than level 14. He's presumably more powerful than Trent too, since I think he was Trent's teacher. Or at least has spoken about him as a disappointing student before, implying he's older and more powerful than Trent. I also think that if they get to say level 18 and still have some road to run if they want that they might just go "gently caress it, it's two levels" where if they ran out of road at 15 that they'd probably leave it go. The most telling thing about Ludinus as a notional leader of the Assembly is that Trent, knowing that the M9 was escorting Vess north and knowing that she was killed, knowing that they broke into his facility, knowing that they're up to something, and knowing that Caleb could blow the whistle on him at any moment, appears completely unwilling to involve Ludinus in matters in any way. Likely because he knows Ludinus would cut his losses so quickly to protect the Assembly that Trent's head would swim if, in fact, it was still on his shoulders. The M9 are many things, but they are not very politically astute. I don't think they have the tools to realistically bring down the Assembly except through violence, and that isn't going to work out well for anybody.
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Mar 30, 2021 18:53
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Narsham posted:The most telling thing about Ludinus as a notional leader of the Assembly is that Trent, knowing that the M9 was escorting Vess north and knowing that she was killed, knowing that they broke into his facility, knowing that they're up to something, and knowing that Caleb could blow the whistle on him at any moment, appears completely unwilling to involve Ludinus in matters in any way. Likely because he knows Ludinus would cut his losses so quickly to protect the Assembly that Trent's head would swim if, in fact, it was still on his shoulders. I mean M9 could probably take out Trent so long as they didn't get jumped a group of 7 level 14s could easily alpha all but like the most gently caress you of caster NPC's especially with so many casters and people with counterspell.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:01
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A level 20 Wizard with 18 CON (doubtful Trent has that) would be around 160HP on average. Veth alone could knock off 1/3 of that in the first round with a good sneak attack. In general, I think the players make bigger deals than what the rules provide out of the monsters and NPCs Matt throws at them. It makes for good drama but doesn't help their already poor planning skills.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:25
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Yeah, the Assembly is majorly bad but a ton of that is the politics, not being personally more powerful than the Nein combined in a fight. VM needed to be level 20 to take on an ascended Vecna, Ludanis is not... currently at that level of threat and is very unlikely to ever reach that even if he taps into some insane poo poo, because Vecna is on another level of gently caress you powergrabs. EDIT: I always appreciate that Vecna was petty enough to shove a small child into his ribcage. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 22:23
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mechanics-wise, though, the most dangerous archmage on the continent is not a level 20 character with appropriate hit points based on its CON score, it's a monster with what powers and HP the DM wants to give it just like how ancient white dragons have like 330 hp in the DMG but the nein did literally more than 800 damage to Gelidon just to get it to retreat and anyways the hard part of killing Trent and especially Ludinus is gonna be ever getting even remotely close to him in a way where you are not horribly disadvantaged or already dead. i'd fully expect Matt to play someone like that as being one of the smartest and most elaborately-prepared people alive, as is the tradition with really high level wizards eke out fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 23:12
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Dameius posted:Matt has said several times the campaign will be done when the narrative is done and that may or may not be level 20 so there is just that to keep in mind. Though I do think they have enough material already baked in to get there. Even if they wrap up the city and Lucian in a very tidy bow, they still have Trent and Uka'toa to deal with. And while this city is coming across as a big deal, it doesn't have that "end of the campaign" vibe to me. It's also a wasted opportunity to not give the M9 a time-skip before the end when they could do way more interesting things with it than VM did. Hearing what Caleb does with a year as a Cerberus Assembly member (which I have to assume is where he's ending up) and what Jester does with a year and high-level spells is reason enough on its own to give that glimpse of "here's what they'd get up to when left to their own devices" before the sunsetting/epilogue descriptions of what everyone does.
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Mar 30, 2021 23:24
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Trent is in serious bunker mode right now, nobody is getting to him.
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Mar 30, 2021 23:47
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redbrouw posted:Trent is in serious bunker mode right now, nobody is getting to him. The last we saw of him, he'd teleported to Nicodranus, that doesn't scream bunker mentality
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Mar 31, 2021 00:29
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:The last we saw of him, he'd teleported to Nicodranus, that doesn't scream bunker mentality tbf they'd had their resources depleted and were literally running and trying to hide (their families) from him, that's just good old-fashioned pressing your advantage while your opponent is weak
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Mar 31, 2021 01:09
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It's easy to say he's not in bunker mode but there's probably like 20 Volstrucker around him right now trying to blend in and act casual. Trent is a user of people, he doesn't bunker up in stone, he bunkers up in people.
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Mar 31, 2021 01:35
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PetraCore posted:It's easy to say he's not in bunker mode but there's probably like 20 Volstrucker around him right now trying to blend in and act casual. Trent is a user of people, he doesn't bunker up in stone, he bunkers up in people. This. Right now his number 1 priority is to solve his Caleb Problem, namely the longer Caleb is allowed to exist and have influence on the world the more likely Trent loses political power. Sooner or later someone higher up than him is going to start asking if they can have an archmage who doesn't have problems with ex-students going rogue
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Mar 31, 2021 02:07
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