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Welcome goonlings to the Awful Book of the Month! In this thread, we choose one work of Resources: Project Gutenberg - http://www.gutenberg.org - A database of over 17000 books available online. If you can suggest books from here, that'd be the best. SparkNotes - http://www.sparknotes.com/ - A very helpful Cliffnotes-esque site, but much better, in my opinion. If you happen to come in late and need to catch-up, you can get great character/chapter/plot summaries here.  For recommendations on future material, suggestions on how to improve the club, or just a general rant, feel free to PM me. Past Books of the Month [for BOTM before 2015, refer to archives] 2015: January: Italo Calvino -- Invisible Cities February: Karl Ove Knausgaard -- My Struggle: Book 1. March: Knut Hamsun -- Hunger April: Liu Cixin -- 三体 ( The Three-Body Problem) May: John Steinbeck -- Cannery Row June: Truman Capote -- In Cold Blood (Hiatus) August: Ta-Nehisi Coates -- Between the World and Me September: Wilkie Collins -- The Moonstone October:Seth Dickinson -- The Traitor Baru Cormorant November:Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl December: Michael Chabon -- Gentlemen of the Road 2016: January: Three Men in a Boat (To say nothing of the Dog!) by Jerome K. Jerome February:The March Up Country (The Anabasis) of Xenophon March: The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco April: Plain Tales from the Hills by Rudyard Kipling May: Temple of the Golden Pavilion by Yukio Mishima June:The Vegetarian by Han Kang July:Lud-in-the-Mist by Hope Mirrlees August: Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov September:Siddhartha by Herman Hesse October:Right Ho, Jeeves by P.G. Wodehouse November:Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain December: It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis 2017: January: Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut February: The Plague by Albert Camus March: The Dispossessed by Ursula K. LeGuin April: The Conference of the Birds (مقامات الطیور) by Farid ud-Din Attar May: I, Claudius by Robert Graves June: Salt: A World History by Mark Kurlansky July: Ficcionies by Jorge Luis Borges August: My Life and Hard Times by James Thurber September: The Peregrine by J.A. Baker October: Blackwater Vol. I: The Flood by Michael McDowell November: Aquarium by David Vann December: Sir Gawaine and the Green Knight [Author Unknown] 2018 January: Njal's Saga [Author Unknown] February: The Sign of the Four by Arthur Conan Doyle Current: Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders Book available here: https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Bardo-Novel-George-Saunders/dp/0812995341 About the book: quote:Lincoln in the Bardo is a 2017 experimental novel by American writer George Saunders.[1] It is Saunders's first full-length novel and was the New York Times hardcover fiction bestseller for the week of March 5, 2017.[2] Saunders is better known for his short stories, reporting, and occasional essays.[3][4][5] blue squares posted:Its great. When you're reading it, you will feel some internal resistance due to some of its unconventionalities. Just relax and allow the book to be what it is. Eventually you will slip into its groove and you won't be fighting against it, you'll be with it. smug n stuff posted:There’s a scene in Lincoln in the Bardo where, while running after Abraham Lincoln, a ghost has to carry his feet-long penis in his hands to avoid tripping over it and that alone makes it worth reading imo Cloks posted:This is the one place I can brag about it - I got a job at OCLC, the nonprofit that does Worldcat a few months ago. cda posted:I would almost never recommend any form of book over a regular book, but the audiobook of Lincoln in the Bardo is top-tier derp posted:yowza. lincoln in the bardo was amazing. maybe i will listen to you nerds a second time A CRUNK BIRD posted:I had a gift cardo so I’m going to read Lincoln in the bardo. About the Author quote:George Saunders (born December 2, 1958) is an American writer of short stories, essays, novellas, children's books, and novels. His writing has appeared in The New Yorker, Harper's, McSweeney's, and GQ. He also contributed a weekly column, American Psyche, to the weekend magazine of The Guardian between 2006 and 2008.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Saunders Interview with George Saunders here: quote:"acclaimed author George Saunders explains how swimming in a river of monkey poop led to an illustrious writing career and opens up about his newfound admiration for Abraham Lincoln (the protagonist of this newest work, "Lincoln in the Bardo" Existing thread on Saunders here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3847806 Themes quote:Many years ago, during a visit to Washington DC, my wife's cousin pointed out to us a crypt on a hill and mentioned that, in 1862, while Abraham Lincoln was president, his beloved son, Willie, died, and was temporarily interred in that crypt, and that the grief-stricken Lincoln had, according to the newspapers of the day, entered the crypt "on several occasions" to hold the boy's body. An image spontaneously leapt into my mind – a melding of the Lincoln Memorial and the Pietà. I carried that image around for the next 20-odd years, too scared to try something that seemed so profound, and then finally, in 2012, noticing that I wasn't getting any younger, not wanting to be the guy whose own gravestone would read "Afraid to Embark on Scary Artistic Project He Desperately Longed to Attempt", decided to take a run at it, in exploratory fashion, no commitments. My novel, Lincoln in the Bardo, is the result of that attempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_in_the_Bardo Pacing Read as thou wilt is the whole of the law. Please bookmark the thread to encourage discussion. References and Further Reading http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/education/williedeath.htm https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...m=.07c2a97e7079 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/books/review-george-saunders-lincoln-in-the-bardo.html Final Note: Thanks, and I hope everyone enjoys the book! Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Mar 7, 2018 |
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Mar 7, 2018 17:48
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loving finally. There aren't many books that I think have wide-appeal across all the various readers in TBB, but I think Lincoln in the Bardo is the closest that I've read. Do you crave literature that can be picked apart and thought about for hours? Or would you prefer a fun story with great characters that will give you some feels? This has both. What about ghost stories? What about a comedy? What about stories with hope in the face of despair? Do you want a love story or two? Or do you want some weirder poo poo, like ridiculous ghost orgies? Want something scary, like demons that disguise themselves as angels? Do you like a little history? Do you like experimental novels, but not so much as to be unreadable? This book has everything in it. I can keep going on and on about what makes it special, it's filled with wonderful imagination, but there's a lot for a new reader to discover, hopefully with a smile. I'm very excited for everyone who's reading this for the first time. Can't wait for discussion to start.
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Mar 7, 2018 19:13
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I'm diving into this one at least partly because my wife liked it a lot; previously I've read Pastoralia at her urging. A quick question for the thread: in an early scene, Saunders narrates a fancy reception through assembled fragments of purported diaries and recollections of attendees. Are these quotations authentic?
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Mar 7, 2018 19:30
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I'll be diving into it right after I'm done with Seventh Function of Language. See, I suggested this book because I couldn't talk myself into starting it...
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Mar 7, 2018 19:50
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thatdarnedbob posted:I'm diving into this one at least partly because my wife liked it a lot; previously I've read Pastoralia at her urging. A quick question for the thread: in an early scene, Saunders narrates a fancy reception through assembled fragments of purported diaries and recollections of attendees. Are these quotations authentic? Some are, some aren't.
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Mar 7, 2018 23:42
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http://www.vulture.com/2018/03/george-saunderss-10-favorite-books.html
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Mar 8, 2018 20:52
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I'm only to IX but I am curious as to the affect, if any beyond general presentation, of using the character's names like that for their respective quotes. Not referring so much to the diary and journalistic entries, but the dialogue.
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Mar 10, 2018 02:42
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Pretty cool that I'm supposed to like this guy when one of his favourite books is a journalistic account of the racist 4chan guys that was published last year
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Mar 10, 2018 03:19
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Woah this guy's smart he said he'd take a book on how to build a boat
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Mar 10, 2018 03:35
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CestMoi posted:Woah this guy's smart he said he'd take a book on how to build a boat I hope the performative cleverness in that interview never shows up in this book.
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Mar 10, 2018 16:59
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Bardo rules and definitely owes a fair bit* to edgar lee masters' spoon river anthology, which is also excellent but has fewer dick jokes *obviously in that they're both about talking ghosts in a graveyard, but specifically in Saunders' weird way of writing this novel: the way that everything is communicated through, not so much dialogue, but more what are effectively very brief (sometimes one sentence) monologues, with alternating speakers who are always identified by their full names like an epitaph this post is a syntactical mess but hopefully ive gotten across what im trying to say
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Mar 10, 2018 18:07
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I bought this for a little side-project I wanted to try at the time, which has unfortunately been put on hold for a bit. But since it's the thread pick it's a good excuse to just pick it up and start.
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Mar 11, 2018 14:47
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Regarding the reverend: Do you guys think he managed to redeem himself and give himself a better fate than the one he originally expected? Saunders leaves this somewhat open-ended, but does seem to suggest that he may have been able, through helping Willie, to avoid the hellfire.
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Mar 11, 2018 22:54
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I'm reading this and it's really really good so far
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Mar 13, 2018 05:05
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I didn't think I'd get this in time but somehow being 4th in line at the library paid off quick. I'm glad to see it opens talking about poop. All real literature does.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:00
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Ben Nevis posted:I didn't think I'd get this in time but somehow being 4th in line at the library paid off quick. I'm glad to see it opens talking about poop. All real literature does. wait till you get to the dick jokes
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Mar 13, 2018 15:37
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chernobyl kinsman posted:wait till you get to the dick jokes Or the ghosts that spend their afterlife distracted in an orgy. I want to talk about the demons disguised as angels that attack the ghosts. I believe that's near the end of Part 1. When we read it for my book club, I was pretty sure they were in fact demons disguised as the individual's definition of Beauty or Peace so they could lure them into the afterlife, specifically Hell, or to trap the souls in unrest like the little girl stuck in the fence trapped in an endless loop of shapeshifting, but I seem to have been the only one that thought that. Did I misread that section, or did anyone else glean the same thing?
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Mar 13, 2018 15:48
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I read this last year shortly after release from the library but I think I am either gonna buy it or borrow it from my sister-in-law to reread, it is extremely good.
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Mar 14, 2018 04:22
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Finished this now and I thought it was very beautiful. I was really moved by the ghosts shifting between all of their future forms and little Willie's ascension. And there were some truly top-notch dick jokes. I'm not really very familiar with Lincoln or the history of the Civil War to say much about its depictions of the subjects.Chamberk posted:Regarding the reverend: It's hard to say! Given the spiritual bent of the novel I don't think he's doomed to an eternity in hell and the visions in the palace may have had a more complicated meaning and purpose. The important thing I took from it is that he's going to get what's coming to him but he's ready now. Franchescanado posted:Or the ghosts that spend their afterlife distracted in an orgy. Oh yeah, totally. I mean the fact that they're offering things that appeal to the desires they had in life rather than acceptance of the truth that they're dead confirms that.
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Mar 14, 2018 07:44
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Down With People posted:Oh yeah, totally. I mean the fact that they're offering things that appeal to the desires they had in life rather than acceptance of the truth that they're dead confirms that. See, I thought it was pretty clear, but of the five other people in my book club that read it, none of them figured that out.
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Mar 14, 2018 12:27
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About halfway through now, and I've found it quite enjoyable. Regarding the spoilered bit from Franchescando and Down With People, I'm really curious as to what the alternate reading of that is. I came away with the same impression.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:39
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I'm about 20% in and it's... A lot funnier than I thought, honestly. Question from someone not familiar with American history - are any of the ghosts based on real people?
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Mar 16, 2018 23:17
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Franchescanado posted:Or the ghosts that spend their afterlife distracted in an orgy. Started my re-read yesterday and was paying particular attention to this bit since I hadn't gotten that impression on my first read. I'm kind of torn honestly, on the one hand there are clues that they are semi-malevolent and not what they appear (getting the names of people's family members wrong, clearly taking some enjoyment in mocking and tormenting) but at the same time I don't know that they are "demons" per-say or that -- aside from the reverend's vision -- they are explicitly trying to be "angels". I think they might be exactly what they seem to be: beings who are trying to "speed them along" by presenting images that are pleasing to them, although not explicitly benevolent angels or tempting demons, just bit players in the weird rules this place seems to have established. There doesn't seem to be a substantial difference between how they take spirits and spirits who just disappear on their own (unless I missed something, I remember near the beginning someone described as popping off "like the sound of a fart" but then later it seems to be a column of fire/light -- the so-called "matterlightblooming"). Also in a later chapter with the revelation of the cocoon being made up of the worst of the souls that we've encountered, and the debate over why the rules are different for children -- it seems like there's rules at work that are unfathomable to even those who are compelled to follow them, and I think the "angels" work in a similar way. I'm admittedly not completely done however, I still have 30ish pages to go, so maybe something will give me more to think about.
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Mar 16, 2018 23:37
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This is not at all what I was expecting. I was a bit put off by story-by-monologues t first, but it works well (even if for some reason I felt like I was reading Waiting for Godot in Hell at points). It's going to take me a while and a few re-reads to digest, but at least now I understand why everyone kept recommending it.
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Mar 18, 2018 13:18
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Just started on this, flowing quite beautifully so far.
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Mar 19, 2018 11:17
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Do we need to look up the little bits that say things like "In "Mr. Lincolns Washington" and "Leech, op. cit." or can they be ignored?
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Mar 19, 2018 22:10
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And I finished this last night. Overall my favorite part was probably Lincoln's first visit and the responses from the ghosts.. I wasn't so sure of the change in Lincoln. Everyone has sorrow, therefore we need to kill these guys better, harder, faster. That struck me as a bit of a stretch, though I don't think it matters. this was a good book and I really enjoyed it.
Ben Nevis fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 22:15
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OscarDiggs posted:Do we need to look up the little bits that say things like "In "Mr. Lincolns Washington" and "Leech, op. cit." or can they be ignored? They can be ignored. What's most important about those aspects is that you gain insights on the major characters perspectives, and that the different perspectives on Lincoln's life are different and sometimes contradictory (like the moon chapter or the different characters describing how ugly Lincoln is). You should have a firm grasp of who the major players are before the end of Book 1.
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Mar 19, 2018 22:18
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Ben Nevis posted:And I finished this last night. Overall my favorite part was probably Lincoln's first visit and the responses from the ghosts.. I wasn't so sure of the change in Lincoln. Everyone has sorrow, therefore we need to keep these guys better, harder, faster. That struck me as a bit of a stretch, though I don't think it matters. this was a good book and I really enjoyed it. Maybe I just can't tell good literature from poo poo but I'm not that amazed. It's really well written, the language is vivid and flowing but the tale beneath feels kind of banal. If I wanted to be really rude, I'd compare it to Coelho. (I don't, I actually like this book, but some of that sentiment is there) anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 22:52
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I mean, he does get propelled by the spirit of a black man who's out for revenge entering his body.
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Mar 19, 2018 22:57
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Franchescanado posted:I mean, he does get propelled by the spirit of a black man who's out for revenge entering his body. I feel like the degree of influence is a pretty open question there.
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Mar 19, 2018 23:21
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Ben Nevis posted:And I finished this last night. Overall my favorite part was probably Lincoln's first visit and the responses from the ghosts.. I wasn't so sure of the change in Lincoln. Everyone has sorrow, therefore we need to kill these guys better, harder, faster. That struck me as a bit of a stretch, though I don't think it matters. this was a good book and I really enjoyed it. I mean, to be fair, the opinions Lincoln has when he leaves the graveyard are the literal expressed opinions of Lincoln during the Civil War Like, that poo poo he was thinking was all stuff he said at one point or another
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Mar 20, 2018 00:48
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, to be fair, the opinions Lincoln has when he leaves the graveyard are the literal expressed opinions of Lincoln during the Civil War There's a couple responses here. First, from what little I've read about it, that wasn't so much his thinking at the time of Willie's death. Generally though, I think that's not really relevant to whether that change is justified by the narrative. I mean, I understand that it has to be that, you can't have a different outcome there and have it consistent with the rest, but it seemed sudden and not really supported to that point.
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Mar 20, 2018 02:53
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Franchescanado posted:I mean, he does get propelled by the spirit of a black man who's out for revenge entering his body. This is where the story really abandoned itself. I realize it was right at the end but there was never a natural transition. His realization of my God so many sons will die to then conclude well I'm gonna bury those fuckers hard rather any nuance of Jesus gently caress this is destroying a country. I think Saunders may have gotten swept up by the "herp derp we've gotta kill these slave having bastards" conviction which is also horrendous as it neglects any acknowledgement of structures of power and never recognizes that both sides had sons dying at the instructions of leaders. Much less be an acceptable step from the rest of the novel.
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Mar 20, 2018 14:46
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pleasecallmechrist posted:I think Saunders may have gotten swept up by the "herp derp we've gotta kill these slave having bastards" conviction which is also horrendous as it neglects any acknowledgement of structures of power and never recognizes that both sides had sons dying at the instructions of leaders. Hrm yes the poor slave owners and people who enlisted explicitly to help slave owners
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Mar 20, 2018 15:20
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Hrm yes the poor slave owners and people who enlisted explicitly to help slave owners Implying that at the highest levels of power the Civil War wasn't actually fought to consolidate Industrialist power by destroying the agricultural barons of the South. You are a pathetically predictable idealogue.
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Mar 20, 2018 16:03
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pleasecallmechrist posted:Implying that at the highest levels of power the Civil War wasn't actually fought to consolidate Industrialist power by destroying the agricultural barons of the South. lol
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Mar 20, 2018 16:57
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pleasecallmechrist posted:Implying that at the highest levels of power the Civil War wasn't actually fought to consolidate Industrialist power by destroying the agricultural barons of the South. lol
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Mar 20, 2018 18:30
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Of all the attempts to justify the "Lost Cause", protecting feudalism is certainly a new one "Heh, well actually the Civil War was about the economic forces of modernity snuffing out a dark ages era social system that was only economically sustainable through the literal ownership of human beings" *sees this as a bad thing* Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 18:32
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pleasecallmechrist posted:This is where the story really abandoned itself. I realize it was right at the end but there was never a natural transition. His realization of my God so many sons will die to then conclude well I'm gonna bury those fuckers hard rather any nuance of Jesus gently caress this is destroying a country. I think Saunders may have gotten swept up by the "herp derp we've gotta kill these slave having bastards" conviction which is also horrendous as it neglects any acknowledgement of structures of power and never recognizes that both sides had sons dying at the instructions of leaders. Much less be an acceptable step from the rest of the novel. He realizes that many sons will die on both sides. He also realizes that half of the sons are dying for the cause of owning other humans. He also also realizes that he's not winning any popularity contests at the time, and so would rather embrace the difficult but morally right thing and fight for what he believes will be best for the country. He also also also becomes influenced by the spirit of a black man who suffered at the hands of white people. The book slowly reveals the nature of how spirits can influence the living, and that spirits with stronger conviction/energy--whether that is love, hate or something else--have more influence on each other. He literally gains empathy for the minorities who will continue suffering if things don't change because one enters him. Sorry you don't like it, but the book didn't pull any deus ex gotchas with the ending. *reads book about Lincoln grieving the death of his son and the nature of the afterlife* "But where's the sympathy for the slave owners?!" Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 18:44
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