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Eiba
Jul 26, 2007



Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:

I am NOT okay with Aversala praising James Holden or his decisions.
She's just buttering him up to make him feel like a hero in order to do what she wants him to do. High level manipulation.

That's how I'm justifying it at least.

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nashona
May 8, 2014

Though she be but little, she is fierce


Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:

I am NOT okay with Aversala praising James Holden or his decisions.

I was disappointed that she didn't say his real name - James loving Holden

drewhead
Jun 22, 2002



nashona posted:

I was disappointed that she didn't say his real name - James loving Holden

Troof

Though the bigger disappointment is that we had an Amos & Avasarala scene and he didn't call her Chrissie

bloom
Feb 25, 2017

YOSPOS


drewhead posted:

Though the bigger disappointment is that we had an Amos & Avasarala scene and he didn't call her Chrissie

You gotta build up to that. Even Amos needs a certain level of familiarity to go there.

"I didn't always work in space" was so good. A really funny line that also hints that there's some really ugly poo poo in Amos's past.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


I think it's pretty lol that ppl are so laser focussed on the war and politics because none of this poo poo is gonna matter when Ghosts and Aliens show up

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Phi230 posted:

I think it's pretty lol that ppl are so laser focussed on the war and politics because none of this poo poo is gonna matter when Ghosts and Aliens show up

Desire, know more, intensifies, etc.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


Milo and POTUS posted:

Desire, know more, intensifies, etc.

What

Like you want spoilers?

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Hell yeah. I love getting spoiled. I guess put it in tags. Ive already got a general idea of what happens so it's even more frustrating

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010


Episode 7/8, is the denouement of Caliban's War. There is a temporary ceasefire, when Errinwright is exposed and Mao is captured then beaten to death with a chair.

Then all poo poo breaks loose.

The last thing said in Episode 8 is, well, a surprise.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


Milo and POTUS posted:

Hell yeah. I love getting spoiled. I guess put it in tags. Ive already got a general idea of what happens so it's even more frustrating



These are book stuff

1. Admiral Nguyen is in cahoots with Mao + Errinwright to make the proto-hybrids.

2. Roci and gang convince Martian + Earth Loyalists to fight and go to Io

3. Trapped in a bind, they shoot the Proto-hybrid missiles at Earth + Mars. The Agatha King is infected and goes dark.

4. Holden boards the AK and executes Nguyen. A sailor stays behind and self destructs the AK.

5. Bobby 1v1s a proto-hybrid and wins. They capture Io and the Hybrids are detonated or diffused, I can't remember.


6. During a peace summit on Luna after these events, the Venus crater erupts and sends a giant "ship" hurtling through space. The object stops and forms a ring.

7. The Protomolecule has absorbed Miller's consciousness and created a new identity as "The investigator." The investigator appears to Holden and only Holden.

8. Some kid who wants to gently caress his cousin slingshots through the ring and doesn't come out the other side. He is pasted in a fraction of a second by a 90g deceleration.

9. Earth, Mars + Belt make a joint expedition to research the ring.

10. Meanwhile, the entire Mao family has been ruined and Clarissa Mao makes a very convoluted plan to get revenge on Holden.

11. Clarissa gets on the Thomas Prince.

12. The Roci and the joint expedition go to the ring.

13. Clarissa Mao hacks the Roci to show that it fired torpedo, sabotaged and blew up a nearby ship, and made a deepfake video where Holden accepts responsibility.

14. Everyone, including the OPA, try to kill Holden.

15. Chased by a million billion torpedoes, the Roci goes through the ring.

16. They are now in an alien "hub" with thousands of rings and the laws of physics no longer work, as there is a speed limit of about 600 m/s.

17. As the Roci and torpedoes have violated the speed limit, they are basically tractor beamed to a giant sphere in the center of the hub.

18. The joint mission also enters the ring, and the Martians send 2 kill teams to go after Holden.

19. Ghost of Miller is now fully cognizant, rather than being kind of dementia and incoherent before, and tells Holden to enter the sphere.

20. Holden enters the sphere and is followed by the Martian kill team.

21. While inside the sphere, he talks to Miller and inspects the weird nature of the place.

22. The Martian kill team shows up and start shooting at Holden, but the bullets are non-lethal because they've been slowed by the slow-zone.

23. Giant robots awaken and start dismemberimg the kill team. A Marine shoots a grenade at "the speed of a good baseball pitch" and the grenade explodes. The slow zone now recognizing everything at that speed to be a threat, lowers the speed limit to like less than 100m/s.

24. All the ships currently in the slow-zone are now decelerated to match the new speed limit. People go from going 600m/s to going less than 100m/s in a fraction of a second and thousands of people die/are injured. Anna goes around and sees poo poo like people pasted on walls and torn in half and poo poo.

25. The season will probably conclude with Holden at the behest of Ghost Miller, touching a large monolith on the alien sphere. Holder's consciousness is uploaded to a non-corporeal form (where the Protomolecule creators used to reside) and learns that the PM creators were non-corporeal and to merely have physical bodies was a sign of nobility and status. The PM creators had a galaxy-spanning empire and used the PM on billion-year missions to colonize new systems.

However, systems started getting "eaten" and the galaxy wide network was being infected by something lovecraftian in nature. In order to contain the threat, the PM creators intentionally destroyed tens of thousands of entire star systems, and thus themselves. All that remains of the PM-creator empire is the slow-zone and about 1300 gates to new systems, uninfected, abandoned for billions of years.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

"TELL ME HOW TO GET PIG SEMEN OUT OF SUEDE" Club soda, fucktard.

Phi230 posted:



These are book stuff

1. Admiral Nguyen is in cahoots with Mao + Errinwright to make the proto-hybrids.

2. Roci and gang convince Martian + Earth Loyalists to fight and go to Io

3. Trapped in a bind, they shoot the Proto-hybrid missiles at Earth + Mars. The Agatha King is infected and goes dark.

4. Holden boards the AK and executes Nguyen. A sailor stays behind and self destructs the AK.

5. Bobby 1v1s a proto-hybrid and wins. They capture Io and the Hybrids are detonated or diffused, I can't remember.


6. During a peace summit on Luna after these events, the Venus crater erupts and sends a giant "ship" hurtling through space. The object stops and forms a ring.

7. The Protomolecule has absorbed Miller's consciousness and created a new identity as "The investigator." The investigator appears to Holden and only Holden.

8. Some kid who wants to gently caress his cousin slingshots through the ring and doesn't come out the other side. He is pasted in a fraction of a second by a 90g deceleration.

9. Earth, Mars + Belt make a joint expedition to research the ring.

10. Meanwhile, the entire Mao family has been ruined and Clarissa Mao makes a very convoluted plan to get revenge on Holden.

11. Clarissa gets on the Thomas Prince.

12. The Roci and the joint expedition go to the ring.

13. Clarissa Mao hacks the Roci to show that it fired torpedo, sabotaged and blew up a nearby ship, and made a deepfake video where Holden accepts responsibility.

14. Everyone, including the OPA, try to kill Holden.

15. Chased by a million billion torpedoes, the Roci goes through the ring.

16. They are now in an alien "hub" with thousands of rings and the laws of physics no longer work, as there is a speed limit of about 600 m/s.

17. As the Roci and torpedoes have violated the speed limit, they are basically tractor beamed to a giant sphere in the center of the hub.

18. The joint mission also enters the ring, and the Martians send 2 kill teams to go after Holden.

19. Ghost of Miller is now fully cognizant, rather than being kind of dementia and incoherent before, and tells Holden to enter the sphere.

20. Holden enters the sphere and is followed by the Martian kill team.

21. While inside the sphere, he talks to Miller and inspects the weird nature of the place.

22. The Martian kill team shows up and start shooting at Holden, but the bullets are non-lethal because they've been slowed by the slow-zone.

23. Giant robots awaken and start dismemberimg the kill team. A Marine shoots a grenade at "the speed of a good baseball pitch" and the grenade explodes. The slow zone now recognizing everything at that speed to be a threat, lowers the speed limit to like less than 100m/s.

24. All the ships currently in the slow-zone are now decelerated to match the new speed limit. People go from going 600m/s to going less than 100m/s in a fraction of a second and thousands of people die/are injured. Anna goes around and sees poo poo like people pasted on walls and torn in half and poo poo.

25. The season will probably conclude with Holden at the behest of Ghost Miller, touching a large monolith on the alien sphere. Holder's consciousness is uploaded to a non-corporeal form (where the Protomolecule creators used to reside) and learns that the PM creators were non-corporeal and to merely have physical bodies was a sign of nobility and status. The PM creators had a galaxy-spanning empire and used the PM on billion-year missions to colonize new systems.

However, systems started getting "eaten" and the galaxy wide network was being infected by something lovecraftian in nature. In order to contain the threat, the PM creators intentionally destroyed tens of thousands of entire star systems, and thus themselves. All that remains of the PM-creator empire is the slow-zone and about 1300 gates to new systems, uninfected, abandoned for billions of years.



Haha! Holy poo poo this is the good thread. Although, for real prolly don't read past #6 if you just watch the show.

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010


I thought they were a shared consciousness and corporeal. I need to go back and read the end of AG.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


Miller says that merely being in the physical world with a physical body is something of "status"

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010


That doesn't make a lot of sense, why would they bother with a galaxy spanning empire if they don't even have a need for material things.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


I think maybe saying that most individuals lived in "the cloud" gets the point across better

Its also like maybe halfway through AG, not the end. The end is completely different to everything I posted above.

Phi230 fucked around with this message at May 4, 2018 around 17:18

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010


That bit of information must have been rejected by my eyes as being a glitch, I just don't remember it at all.

I am a really confused by this. Perhaps it is a lack of imagination on my part.

Why if they have shed the binds of the real do they need more real. How can a collective consciousness have differing statuses, surely that would be a redundant construct.

I will go back and read it again, but I am currently very confused by their alien needs.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

"TELL ME HOW TO GET PIG SEMEN OUT OF SUEDE" Club soda, fucktard.

Collateral posted:

That doesn't make a lot of sense, why would they bother with a galaxy spanning empire if they don't even have a need for material things.

Collateral posted:

That bit of information must have been rejected by my eyes as being a glitch, I just don't remember it at all.

I am a really confused by this. Perhaps it is a lack of imagination on my part.

Why if they have shed the binds of the real do they need more real. How can a collective consciousness have differing statuses, surely that would be a redundant construct.

I will go back and read it again, but I am currently very confused by their alien needs.

For power. The first planet they find is basically a world-sized reactor to power whatever the gently caress they did inside the sphere.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


Yeah but they also had the alien logistics network and the artificial moon orbital defense network

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010


"Sometimes, having a body at all means you've got a certain status. If you aren't pretty drat trusted, you don't get to walk the fallen world."
"The fallen world?"
"Fallen World. The substrate. Matter"

Is this what you are referring to? That is Miller is telling Holden he can't interface with the station because he is non corporeal? He can't wifi to get it working.

The fallen world is an interesting phrase though.

A little later he says: "You're not making a remote connection. You're actually here. In the substrate. In some quarters, that's kind of a big deal."

It's a bit tenuous.

Collateral fucked around with this message at May 4, 2018 around 17:43

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


Yeah that's it

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


Yeah, I didn't read that as bodies being a status symbol, just that what he wanted to do required actually being there.

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004



Nap Ghost

WRT the upcoming plot points spoiler, I remember hearing (believe via Ty/Daniel on the Churn podcast) that the TV show will start diverging from the books in nontrivial ways by the end of this season (as opposed to arguably trivial ways, such as merging multiple bit parts into Show-Drummer, adding new scenes like Episode 3's rescue-drama, etc).

So it'll be real interesting to see how many of the big plot beats remain intact and which start to get merged/changed/removed wholesale. I am excite.

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.


bitprophet posted:

WRT the upcoming plot points spoiler, I remember hearing (believe via Ty/Daniel on the Churn podcast) that the TV show will start diverging from the books in nontrivial ways by the end of this season (as opposed to arguably trivial ways, such as merging multiple bit parts into Show-Drummer, adding new scenes like Episode 3's rescue-drama, etc).

So it'll be real interesting to see how many of the big plot beats remain intact and which start to get merged/changed/removed wholesale. I am excite.

They'll probably do an end run around the book with the slug planet, if that's the case. I didn't hate it nearly as much as other people did, but it seems like a ton of setup and world-building for a place that's never visited again, and that poo poo's way more expensive on TV than in a book. My thought is that they'll fold all the Miller stuff into exploring the slow station, and maybe do all the investigating there into whatever killed off the protomolecule creators. It seems like an easier through-line for a TV show that's largely been about intersystem politics -- Mars-Earth war, cease-fire while they examine the ring, initial colonization efforts, then Marco's war starts as a direct response to the colonization. Spending a book's worth of time on slug planet seems like kind of a weird sidestory to the main plotline.

gently caress, except all of Anna's story takes place on slug planet, doesn't it? Well, then I don't know what they're gonna do with her.

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


Phenotype posted:

gently caress, except all of Anna's story takes place on slug planet, doesn't it? Well, then I don't know what they're gonna do with her.

She's not in that book.

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004



Nap Ghost

Yea, I think you're conflating her with wossname, the scientist lady who really wanted to get boned by Holden.

Also, I agree on both that Book 4 wasn't as bad as most people say, but also that it is 100% eminently skippable for a screen adaptation.

ATP_Power
Jun 12, 2010

The mind of man may be a curse, but what would I be without it?


I feel like the structure of the show doesn't lend itself to the 4th book's structure - as stated some of the stuff is really important worldbuilding, but cutting characters like Bobbie, Fred Johnson and Drummer or Avasarala out for a whole season wouldn't make any sense. I imagine it's going to be way more condensed, with parallel plot lines for everyone in Sol setting up the Duerte and Marcos plotlines (assuming the show runs that long).

I hope some of the plot of book 4 remains because I really enjoyed Havelock's story, and the climax of the book has some great moments.

Zartosht
Jan 14, 2010


When you're a godlike post-scarcity civilization, "want" becomes more important than "need". Plus, computer consciousnesses still need a physical substrate of some kind to run on, which will require resources of some kind.

As for the existence of differing statuses, I mean, you could kind of ask the same thing about our society. Social hierarchies and privilege aren't really about logic.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


I hope they don't change anything. I think the series should end on the ominous "avoid the Laconia gate or be destroyed"

And then 30 real life years later pick up on books 7-8-9

Chef Boyardeez Nuts
Sep 9, 2011


Trying to think of who they can combine. Michio "Drummer" Pa is all but guaranteed if they get that far. Kill off Marco discovering the slow zone and pair his failson with Dawes. Anna can get the nongay crush on Holden.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I haven't read the second book in a while but I don't remember Earth and Mars going to actual war in it, is that a show change or just a memory lapse? I remember them constantly being right on the edge but never flat out doing it.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

"TELL ME HOW TO GET PIG SEMEN OUT OF SUEDE" Club soda, fucktard.

Grand Fromage posted:

I haven't read the second book in a while but I don't remember Earth and Mars going to actual war in it, is that a show change or just a memory lapse? I remember them constantly being right on the edge but never flat out doing it.

Yeah, show change. I think they dangled ~ALL OUT NUCLEAR WAR~ for two seasons and not paying that off would definitely kill the show's viewership.

I like it, personally, but am interested to see how they pull it out!

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


I think there was a big war but like it was in the background? I really can't remember book 2 all that well

zeal
Sep 11, 2008

Z E A L!





Have the books revealed what destroyed the PM creators?

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


zeal posted:

Have the books revealed what destroyed the PM creators?

A lovecraftian entity coined by Holden as "The black bullet"

We have evidence they still exist, and are still active.

Something is "eating" ships that pass through the ring. Like ships go in, and don't ever show up at the destination.

After the events of book 3, the 1300 or so gate systems that have been unlocked basically become a New World, with the slow-zone hub being the Atlantic Ocean. They're well travelled and the OPA controls trade. Except something is eating ships.

zeal
Sep 11, 2008

Z E A L!





i guess the Investigator forgot to warn them about Void Krakens

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


zeal posted:

i guess the Investigator forgot to warn them about Void Krakens

No, he did, and The Investigator sacrifices himself after he inhabits the body of a giant robot crab to destroy this kind of evil hole on at an alien train station

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


And a main character we haven't met yet in the show rides Millercrab into battle fighting other giant insectoid robots

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


This takes place after a fusion reactor the size of a continent melts down and has a planet-cracking explosion that Holden, Amos, some inyaloda scum and Belter colonists have to ride out planetside

Because they can't send relief ships, because there are about a dozen artificial moons that actually 2 billion year old orbital defense guns that shoot down anything that tries to land

There's also slugs, lizards and a scientist who really wants to gently caress Holden. Oh, and a guy floating in EVA gets shot by a railgun.

People rag on book 4 but it has super dope moments that I wanna see on TV

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

"TELL ME HOW TO GET PIG SEMEN OUT OF SUEDE" Club soda, fucktard.

Phi230 posted:

This takes place after a fusion reactor the size of a continent melts down and has a planet-cracking explosion that Holden, Amos, some inyaloda scum and Belter colonists have to ride out planetside

Because they can't send relief ships, because there are about a dozen artificial moons that actually 2 billion year old orbital defense guns that shoot down anything that tries to land

There's also slugs, lizards and a scientist who really wants to gently caress Holden. Oh, and a guy floating in EVA gets shot by a railgun.

People rag on book 4 but it has super dope moments that I wanna see on TV

Also it brings back Miller's partner and gives him an arc, and has a great sequence with Alex using the Roci to hold another ship in orbit by firing the Roci's railgun.

Book 4 sucks only because the other books are sooooo gooooood.

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Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

There all is aching


Well they can skip like the first half of both book 3 and 4 as long as we see a guy get owned by railgun

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