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Gay Rat Wedding
Sep 14, 2011


Taco Defender

TheBombPhilosopher posted:

So I just bought the game, and I'm completely terrible at it and I have no idea what I should be doing. I'm wondering what class is most awful newbie friendly?

tbh just try em out and see what feels the best to you at first impression, the most important thing you can do in this game is use your tools on 3 and 4 where appropriate, so keep those in mind.

if you're scout you want to be lighting up the walls and ceilings on big rooms with your flares, and if the engineer puts a platform underneath minerals high up on a wall, it's generally your job to grapple to the platform and get to them since you're the only one who can reach them easily.

if you're engineer, you want to place those platforms beneath the obnoxious minerals so the scout can get them, and don't forget to build your turret.

if you're gunner, you want to throw down your shield when bugs are getting spicy and use your ziplines to cross large gaps.

driller does a bit of anything like drilling ramps up walls, drilling shortcuts through walls, making space around the objective you're defending on salvage operations, or drilling a straight line to the escape pod at the end (and while his c4 is occasionally amazing it's usually the least important tool). I suggest using the terrain scanner a lot when drilling.

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Tombot
Oct 21, 2008


I'd say you should plop it on the easiest difficulty and faff about until you get a handle on things, that's what I did.

Relentless
Sep 22, 2007

It's a perfect day for some mayhem!




TheBombPhilosopher posted:

So I just bought the game, and I'm completely terrible at it and I have no idea what I should be doing. I'm wondering what class is most awful newbie friendly?

Just jump in feet first. Haz2 won't you much trouble if you have any experience with shooters at all. Most pubbies are friendly, or find the goon coop discord. It really does play better with a 4p team, and you'll learn a lot just watching how other players handle situations.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.






I have watched this loop so many times now, and every time I am still shocked that it reaches those bugs in the very front.

Also, Jesus, what a terrifying swarm to meet right out the gate

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007

THIS IS HOW YOU REMIND ME OF WHAT I REALLY AM
*stumbles on reload and dies to a Nightstalker Super during Quick Play*


TheBombPhilosopher posted:

So I just bought the game, and I'm completely terrible at it and I have no idea what I should be doing. I'm wondering what class is most awful newbie friendly?

If you just want an opinion, I've decided to main the Scout.

1. Having a grappling hook completely transforms the entire game. Seriously, since I picked up the scout, DRG has felt like an entirely different experience. I can swoop around everywhere pretty much instantly which is amazing both for navigation and as a combat tactic. Kite enemies to spot A, grapple across obnoxious chasm, shoot from safe distance, repeat.
2. The Scout's unlockable weapons are fantastic. You get an awesome Sniper Rifle which is thematically perfect for the class, and dual SMGs for close combat and more importantly for feeling like you're a cool future dude from the Matrix.
3. Being able to light up rooms is so much more useful than you'd think. Being able to see everything coming from huge distances really makes battlefields a lot easier to oversee and control.

The Fattest PI
Mar 4, 2008
VAGINA AVOIDER; LEADER OF THE BIBLE STUDY GROUP; WETTEST BLANKET


If a scout never fires a single shot and just lights up room appropriately I'd be happy to have them along. I've done some scouting myself, but whenever I'm playing another class its tragic how often you get a pubbie scout who almost never uses flares.

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Nothing like *knowing* a bunch of bugs are crawling along the ceiling as you spool your minigun and being completely unable to see them. because they're just outside of the range of the tossable ground flares.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Another thing I never see pubbie scouts doing is using the grapple offensively. It's not just for getting away to a safe distance. You're literally the only person on the team capable of ALWAYS being behind the Oppressor or Dreadnaught dumping rounds into its butt (which is the only way they take any damage). And you take less risk to do so, because when it turns to chase you next, you also have the easiest time turning and running and then kiting it around for your team. A scout who constantly zips behind the big boy and does mag dumps + damage-upgraded power melees into its butt makes a noticeable difference in the kill time and difficulty of those fights.

All that said, I still recommend playing all the classes for a bit in order to get a feel for which ones you personally like best. But I would also go a step further and recommend revisiting them all periodically as you get better at the game and start to understand all the details of what's going on. I loooved the mobility of scout early on, but it's actually the least interesting to me right now. The grapple is great, but compared to the other dwarves the gameplay and gunplay feels too simple to keep me engaged. It's also a lot of fun to collaboratively build traversal systems around the map with your team, and as the scout you don't get to participate in that. And if you're a team player, you'll spend a decent amount of time waiting for them to get to places you just easily zipped to. And it's not just scout, I also like digger and gunner a LOT more than I initially did when I was overwhelmed and had no upgrades. The only class I've stayed consistent on is engineer, and even there, if you go back through my posts you'll find me contradicting myself a ton on what weapons and builds I do and don't like.

Tl;dr, there is legitimately no best class for anyone, even as a starting point. Just try to relax, throw poo poo at the wall, and see what sticks! It's a lot more fun to do so than in most games.

Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Aug 3, 2020

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007

THIS IS HOW YOU REMIND ME OF WHAT I REALLY AM
*stumbles on reload and dies to a Nightstalker Super during Quick Play*


Unsinkabear posted:

Tl;dr, there is legitimately no best class for anyone, even as a starting point. Just try to relax, throw poo poo at the wall, and see what sticks! It's a lot more fun to do so than in most games.

I'd agree with all of this. When I say the Scout is my favorite class at the moment, I'm saying I like the Scout about 10% more than other classes right now, after having fun playing all of them for a little bit. All of the game's classes are strong and fun to play. My current 2nd favorite is Gunner because it's so fun to style on bugs with a hose of bullets from the safety of your shield bubble. Also, Gunner ziplines rule.

Also, good point about the Scout's offensive grappling too. One of my favorite Scout combos against the big guys is freeze grenade -> grapple behind them -> rear end snipe. It's extremely effective and fun to watch players do.

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

The only mystery left,
is what I put in your tea.


While we're talking Scout, what's a good way to use his akimbo SMGs? They reload and dump very quickly, but I feel the shotgun is ultimately better at close range DPS, am I missing something? So far the only upside I've noticed for it is that it is easier to leave a grunt at low health for a quick melee kill to proc Vampire.

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything by doing it right.






I'm one of the heathens that uses the Auto Rifle + Twin SMGs. I typically use them for "walking around" combat and then pull out the rifle for when anything serious appears.

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

Unsinkabear posted:

I have watched this loop so many times now, and every time I am still shocked that it reaches those bugs in the very front.

Also, Jesus, what a terrifying swarm to meet right out the gate

Note that it was also a bad time for the Scout to be offensively grappling.

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007

THIS IS HOW YOU REMIND ME OF WHAT I REALLY AM
*stumbles on reload and dies to a Nightstalker Super during Quick Play*


Kith posted:

I'm one of the heathens that uses the Auto Rifle + Twin SMGs. I typically use them for "walking around" combat and then pull out the rifle for when anything serious appears.

I do the same thing. I find the shotgun's 2 shots leaves me feeling defenseless for too long. SMGs for dealing with in your face surprises, Sniper for everything else. I also use the SMGs' fast reload perk which basically means the guns take about as long to reload you would normally take to simply ease off your left mouse button and start pressing it again so that helps.

Drewjitsu
Sep 2, 2007

Muay Thai is great but Buttscoot-Shin-to-Balls Style is undeniably better.



GreatGreen posted:

I'd agree with all of this. When I say the Scout is my favorite class at the moment, I'm saying I like the Scout about 10% more than other classes right now, after having fun playing all of them for a little bit. All of the game's classes are strong and fun to play. My current 2nd favorite is Gunner because it's so fun to style on bugs with a hose of bullets from the safety of your shield bubble. Also, Gunner ziplines rule.

Also, good point about the Scout's offensive grappling too. One of my favorite Scout combos against the big guys is freeze grenade -> grapple behind them -> rear end snipe. It's extremely effective and fun to watch players do.

FYI, frozen enemies have zero armor, zero weak spots, and take 300% damage. You don't need to get behind them, just mag dump frozen dudes. (especially if you have bullets of mercy).

My scout load out for EDD's and haz 4/5 is assault rifle and shotgun. You're not going to be making GBS threads out damage, but you can do a respectable job in thinning out swarms and hitting farther off single troublemakers like mactera/acid splitters/menaces.

Shotgun is for burst damage, you're not going to use it a ton. It's mainly for targets with big hp pools.

Light up ceilings, holdouts, and mine everything.

Scout is the best class, and a good scout makes everything just that bit smoother in a run. Welcome to the team.

Fishstick
Jul 9, 2005

Does not require preheating

The biggest favor you can do for your team wrt Oppressors and such as scout is to just get behind them. Even if they turn to focus you and you lose your ability to magdump, it now has its rear end turned to the other 3 people in your team.

Also make sure you're not grappling onto praetorians just as the driller C4s.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Fishstick posted:

Also make sure you're not grappling onto praetorians just as the driller C4s.

Also make sure you don't grapple directly onto the dreadnought's loving face instead of the wall behind it, as I often do.

Fishstick
Jul 9, 2005

Does not require preheating

Unsinkabear posted:

Also make sure you don't grapple directly onto the dreadnought's loving face instead of the wall behind it, as I often do.

This is why I don't grapple from the floor like a peasant anymore, shotgun for air, then grapple for distance. Special Powder is a ton of fun and you can do some ridiculous things with that kind of mobility

https://i.imgur.com/b9sVywf.mp4

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Drewjitsu posted:

Shotgun is for burst damage, you're not going to use it a ton. It's mainly for targets with big hp pools.

I wonder about this. The hollow point bonus to weakpoints on the rifle makes me prefer magdumping that into bug butts for burst damage as well as for general use. So I end up using it in basically all situations, and barely touching the shotgun at all, as you said. I read one guide that recommended going the opposite direction and using the shotgun as your swarm clear tool by speccing blowthrough, extra pellets, ammo, and reload speed. I'm very intrigued to try that.

Fishstick posted:

This is why I don't grapple from the floor like a peasant anymore, shotgun for air, then grapple for distance. Special Powder is a ton of fun and you can do some ridiculous things with that kind of mobility

https://i.imgur.com/b9sVywf.mp4



This is another one I watched many times. There's a lot going on here that I'm not sure I could pull off, but the pièce de résistance is the slow Hindenburg fall out of the sky by that frozen breeder. Also, freezing it with a rebound throw is just showing off.

This is another potent argument for maxing reload speed imo, a couple of those jumps were veeeery tight.

Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Aug 3, 2020

Drewjitsu
Sep 2, 2007

Muay Thai is great but Buttscoot-Shin-to-Balls Style is undeniably better.



Unsinkabear posted:

I wonder about this. The hollow point bonus to weakpoints on the rifle makes me prefer magdumping that into bug butts for burst damage as well as for general use. So I end up using it in basically all situations, and barely touching the shotgun at all, as you said. I read one guide that recommended going the opposite direction and using the shotgun as your swarm clear tool by speccing blowthrough, extra pellets, ammo, and reload speed. I'm very intrigued to try that.

I tried it, but it didn't seem to click with me. Especially on higher difficulties were you don't want to get hit, the shotgun is for a few things you need to delete asap.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Drewjitsu posted:

I tried it, but it didn't seem to click with me. Especially on higher difficulties were you don't want to get hit, the shotgun is for a few things you need to delete asap.

That's cool that you tried it, though!

Talking out my rear end here because I don't have much time on Scout and I don't have all these upgrades unlocked yet: I know that the boomstick with either damage upgrade will single-tap grunts up through haz5. If you're firing into a group with the intent to hit a bunch of them, you might not land enough pellets on each one for that, but I would think a double-tap on the group would get it done. Then you could switch to the rifle for any mop-up while the holstered shotgun auto-reloads. That would only leave you with 16-18 uses, though, so it would probably be better to fire once and then rifle the survivors...

Out of curiosity, what is it that you need the shotgun to delete asap instead of just repositioning to butt shoot with your primary? And what upgrades does the swarm build lose that help with that? Just the damage in row 1? Double trigger, I guess?

Edit: poo poo, do I need double trigger to do the super high shotgun jumps?

I think I see where you're coming from. This is a weird gun.

Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Aug 3, 2020

threelemmings
Dec 4, 2007
A jellyfish!

The AR probably does better dps overall but it requires much more time to do so. At higher levels some of the swarms are enough you can't just sit and shoot, so you zip in, unload both barrels, and zip out. Survivability is also important, not just the raw dps.

I've been playing around some smgs and some have been decent. I think they're equal enough it's probably preference, I swap back and forth.

Drewjitsu
Sep 2, 2007

Muay Thai is great but Buttscoot-Shin-to-Balls Style is undeniably better.



Unsinkabear posted:

That's cool that you tried it, though!

Talking out my rear end here because I don't have much time on Scout and I don't have all these upgrades unlocked yet: I know that the boomstick with either damage upgrade will single-tap grunts up through haz5. If you're firing into a group with the intent to hit a bunch of them, you might not land enough pellets on each one for that, but I would think a double-tap on the group would get it done. Then you could switch to the rifle for any mop-up while the holstered shotgun auto-reloads. That would only leave you with 16-18 uses, though, so it would probably be better to fire once and then rifle the survivors...

Out of curiosity, what is it that you need the shotgun to delete asap instead of just repositioning to butt shoot with your primary? And what upgrades does the swarm build lose that help with that? Just the damage in row 1? Double trigger, I guess?

Edit: poo poo, do I need double trigger to do the super high shotgun jumps?

I think I see where you're coming from. This is a weird gun.

At the higher difficulties, there are too many bugs in swarms for the shotgun to keep up with in a reliable fashion. Shotgun gets used for brood nexuses, oppressors, dreadnoughts, single bugs when low on assault rifle ammo.

Build is 12213 Jumbo Shells. Seems to work for me. Maybe you can make the argument that it's more like 122X3 and pick anything you like on T4.
https://surmiran.github.io/karl/?=N...GMBXAZxAF0BfOoA

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Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Gotcha. Thanks for that link, I've been looking for a build calculator.

Dreadnoughts and oppressors both resist fire, right? Doesn't it hurt you to take the t5 perk that changes damage to fire if you're specifically aiming to use this on them?

Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Aug 4, 2020

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