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jimmydalad
Sep 26, 2013

My face when others are unable to appreciate the

AGDQ 2018 Awful Block Survivor


Preview for the next episode is here. I aspire to reach The Vixens level of petty.

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alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012



jimmydalad posted:

Preview for the next episode is here. I aspire to reach The Vixen’s level of petty.

a rare kameron talking head appears!
man the cast this season is excellent. just sass city all round. vixen just dumping the two queens she dislikes most together is very, very funny, although i think aquaria is in a whole diff league to eureka

also 100% of the ideas for the maxi challenge sound terrible hahaha. come on queens, work that chaff into gold

Aerox
Jan 8, 2012


alf_pogs posted:

a rare kameron talking head appears!
man the cast this season is excellent. just sass city all round. vixen just dumping the two queens she dislikes most together is very, very funny, although i think aquaria is in a whole diff league to eureka

also 100% of the ideas for the maxi challenge sound terrible hahaha. come on queens, work that chaff into gold


I agree except the final idea revealed right before the preview ends is going to be fuckin' comedy gold.

Pellisworth
Jun 20, 2005

I'm a horse of a different color


alf_pogs posted:

a rare kameron talking head appears!
man the cast this season is excellent. just sass city all round. vixen just dumping the two queens she dislikes most together is very, very funny, although i think aquaria is in a whole diff league to eureka

also 100% of the ideas for the maxi challenge sound terrible hahaha. come on queens, work that chaff into gold


I love the Vixen

I kind of suspect she's right about Eureka and Aquaria not working too well together, I guess we'll see.

Cracker and Mayhem have a pickle challenge, Cracker at least has a good enough comedic wit to make plenty of dick jokes about pickles, that'll be fine.

If I had to guess, I think Clair and Monique will struggle the most. Monique is a big and expressive personality but hasn't been very funny, and Clair seems quiet and demure. I expect Monique will steal the spotlight and not be very funny while Clair mostly gets talked over.

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012



Pellisworth posted:

I love the Vixen

I kind of suspect she's right about Eureka and Aquaria not working too well together, I guess we'll see.

Cracker and Mayhem have a pickle challenge, Cracker at least has a good enough comedic wit to make plenty of dick jokes about pickles, that'll be fine.

If I had to guess, I think Clair and Monique will struggle the most. Monique is a big and expressive personality but hasn't been very funny, and Clair seems quiet and demure. I expect Monique will steal the spotlight and not be very funny while Clair mostly gets talked over.


this could be a big opportunity for Blair and Monique; both of them can do 'characters' quite well so if they can get collaborative and bounce off one another alright, it might be a breakout moment. who knows, though. for me the real question is, whether the Vixen and Asia both get too preoccupied playing shade wars to pull off a win. going after other queens makes for great television, though, so i am definitely along for the ride

Cracker is probably the biggest contender for Miss Congeniality at this point, in all the untucked arguments she's tried to be the voice of reason, and even with Asia at the start of this episode. she's also diplomatically talked about sugar daddies with Aquaria, which could have blown up into WW3.

nevertheless i will sign any petition that gets THE VIXEN awarded Miss Congeniality just for the sheer shade of it all

warez
Mar 13, 2003

HOLA FANTA DONT CHA WANNA?

alf_pogs posted:

nevertheless i will sign any petition that gets THE VIXEN awarded Miss Congeniality just for the sheer shade of it all


Oh god. I need this more than anything now.

She's firing on all cylinders this episode too. Queen.

Pinwiz11
Jan 26, 2009

"I think you'll find that when it comes to Sandwich Montoya, the sky is the limit!"

- Too Much Mustard


I'm so glad that Ru seems back to full health this week, based on that clip. (I assume that this isn't a spoiler. )

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



Vixen to me comes off as a bully to me tbh. She's the kind of person I would intensely dislike if I knew her in real life.

But maybe I'm biased because I like Aquaria (and seem to be in a minority)

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





Vixen is definitely a bit of a bully, imo, but I dig it and she raises good points about how white queens are perceived vs black queens typically by fans of the show.

Trig Discipline
Jun 3, 2008

Please leave the room if you think this might offend you.


Grimey Drawer

esperterra posted:

Vixen is definitely a bit of a bully, imo, but I dig it and she raises good points about how white queens are perceived vs black queens typically by fans of the show.

Yeah but IMO those points would be more likely to be received constructively if she wasn't also so blatantly a bully. If any other black queen this season were making that point it'd just be "hell yeah", but in Vixen's case it can also be perceived as her laying some groundwork to be as lovely as she wants to be without being called on it. It risks being read as "I'm going to start as many fights as I want and if you say I'm an rear end in a top hat for that you're racist".

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





Trig Discipline posted:

Yeah but IMO those points would be more likely to be received constructively if she wasn't also so blatantly a bully. If any other black queen this season were making that point it'd just be "hell yeah", but in Vixen's case it can also be perceived as her laying some groundwork to be as lovely as she wants to be without being called on it. It risks being read as "I'm going to start as many fights as I want and if you say I'm an rear end in a top hat for that you're racist".

I like The Vixen a lot, she's one of my front queens atm just in terms of how she's been competing, as well as me being a messy ho who loves me some cunty queens-- tho admittedly she's not nearly as charming about it as someone like Raven, who was one of the biggest cunts to grace the screen lbr. That mirror message to Tyra was c o l d a s i c e and iconique.

That said, I can see where she's toeing the line. Like, she was loving with Aquaria from the start and Aquaria clapping back was fair imho. The Eureka stuff is muddier because Eureka was loving with her and 100% started it, whether Vixen took her awkward 'crafty' compliment straight to negative or not. Eureka was in the wrong there and tbh even if either of them took it down from an 11, they're both aggressive personalities so it was bound to be a disaster no matter who lit the match.

We're only four episodes in and I don't really want to judge her too harshly just yet. We had sweet moments with her being helpful and kind to the other queens when there's no drama going on, and yeah she's been jumping on people, but she really did warn them she's there to fight. I don't think that necessitates being at 11 for every bit of drama, but who knows maybe she'll chill off either on her own or by listening to the queens who agree with her points but think she's being extra.

Even if, in the end, Vixen's run on the show has her starting more fights than fighting to defend herself, I still think it's loving awesome she's said some of what she has on the show. She's really the only queen to actually discuss the racism in the fandom on the show, isn't she? Like in terms of how people judge queens of colour more harshly than queens who are white, or hell are still PoC but have lighter skin. Past queens have discussed it in interviews and on podcasts/etc, but afaik this is the first time the message will get to the whole fandom in a legit way. Vixen might end up being a horrible person overall, we won't know 'til the season's in the bag, but at least she'll have said out loud, literally pointing at the cameras, that this is a big loving issue. And at least it sets precedent for this to be a conversation that can hopefully continue on the show itself going forward. If more queens feel comfortable speaking out about it then hopefully some minds will change. There's always going to be dumb idiot edgelords on the internet but it'd be nice to have less racist idiocy when it comes to a show every gay person should be celebrating for even existing, instead of fighting over dumb bullshit fuuuuck.


unrelated but with The Switch alrdy on WOWpresents and Drag Race Thailand hitting it soon I might loving end up biting the bullet. Isn't it only like five bux? I hear Alyssa's Beyond Belief finally wrapped, too, so that might actually exist despite being in production for what feels like 5 years.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





Also I found a Drag Race text generator are we still wanting a gang tag b/c it would be cool to have it in the RPDR font if we end up coming up w/ one

Also I still vote for Heathers. I mean look at that H! It's so dramatic!







e: i'm p sure it's just some version of helvetica but lol i'm not spending 40bux or w/e on a font

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



esperterra posted:

Vixen is definitely a bit of a bully, imo, but I dig it and she raises good points about how white queens are perceived vs black queens typically by fans of the show.

I don't get this. Yeah she might have some good points but that doesn't justify her being a bully. "Yeah s/he is a terrible person, but it's entertaining so it's ok" is not exactly the most cromulent position to take. It's not that I dislike her, mind you, but I very much dislike that particular behavior, and imo needs to be called out for the toxic poo poo it is instead of encouraged. I'd much rather they kiss and make up (literally if possible)

Having said that, I am also very much isolated from the fandom and their reactions to the various queens on social media, as I don't have much of a social media presence so maybe I'm missing poo poo, I dunno.


Trig Discipline posted:

Yeah but IMO those points would be more likely to be received constructively if she wasn't also so blatantly a bully. If any other black queen this season were making that point it'd just be "hell yeah", but in Vixen's case it can also be perceived as her laying some groundwork to be as lovely as she wants to be without being called on it. It risks being read as "I'm going to start as many fights as I want and if you say I'm an rear end in a top hat for that you're racist".

I agree with what Cracker said, tone it down from an 11 to a 5 and her message will be a lot more agreeable with her coming off less as a bully, but then again, like Vixen says, her attitude has gotten her where she is.

Edit: wow you were busy while I was typing this, lol

McCloud fucked around with this message at Apr 18, 2018 around 09:04

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





McCloud posted:

"Yeah s/he is a terrible person, but it's entertaining so it's ok"

The thing is, it being entertaining has made being a massive stinkyhole okay for a whole lot of popular queens on this show. Just never black ones.

I still personally don't think Vixen is as charismatic as a Raven or a Tati or Bianca, or hell even Alyssa, who is a shady ho. Hell, Raja wasn't overly charismatic about her being a bitch, and she's hugely loved. It's also a lot different because Vixen is operating at a 10 or an 11 when most of the other queens aren't. If she had been on an earlier season it would have meshed better because there would be more people being extra. I think she's gone a bit too far once or twice. But!!

"Yeah s/he is a terrible person, but it's entertaining so it's ok" has worked wonders for a whole lotta queens who conveniently aren't black.

e: ^^ i'm high af bb

e2: also in general I also 1000% agree with cracker that in general if vixen still did good by who she is and her decision to be so fuckin' real, but did it at anything under a 10, it would prob come off better

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



I've only watched from s6 forward, and the most aggressive queen I can recall is Bianca, and she was nowhere near as aggressive as Vixen, and usually her shade was made in good humor. Alyssa seemed pretty chill in All stars . And isn't Tati a PoC?


I agree with you in that I think it's how aggressive Vixen is that's the turn off. If she toned it down it wouldn't be as big of a deal when she calls out the other queens.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





McCloud posted:

I've only watched from s6 forward, and the most aggressive queen I can recall is Bianca, and she was nowhere near as aggressive as Vixen, and usually her shade was made in good humor. Alyssa seemed pretty chill in All stars . And isn't Tati a PoC?


I agree with you in that I think it's how aggressive Vixen is that's the turn off. If she toned it down it wouldn't be as big of a deal when she calls out the other queens.

Tati's black and italian afaik, yeah, but I'm not sure how many of the general fandom know that lmao, I know a lot of people used to assume she was latino.

Hell I thought she was latino back in S2.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



Didn't occur to me that she's black either tbf. But that's because I don't see race

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012



the problem here is, that the only reason we're talking about this is because The Vixen has dialled poo poo up to 11. i am one hundred percent in favour of using reality television to push a message or promote an agenda. it is a competition but rpdr is also a huge platform, promoting alternative voices in an increasingly segmented world. queens savvy enough to talk poo poo, crush the competition and start a hundred fires in people are pretty admirable i reckon and thats why i love The Vixen.

seizure later
Apr 18, 2007


I don't really feel easy with people, even Cracker, saying "if you toned it down then your message would be received better" because it stinks of respectability politics. yeah, the Vixen has stirred poo poo up with both Aquaria and Eureka, but only after they came for her first. I dunno why people assume that she has to be the bigger person and drop it when they no longer want to participate- this is a situation you created, now you deal with it. I certainly wouldn't want people telling me to take it down a notch otherwise I might turn some people off with my attitude. if I'm not for you, that's your thing and you don't have to stick around or wave a flag for me, I can do that myself.

alf_pogs posted:

the problem here is, that the only reason we're talking about this is because The Vixen has dialled poo poo up to 11. i am one hundred percent in favour of using reality television to push a message or promote an agenda. it is a competition but rpdr is also a huge platform, promoting alternative voices in an increasingly segmented world. queens savvy enough to talk poo poo, crush the competition and start a hundred fires in people are pretty admirable i reckon and thats why i love The Vixen.

yeah, if she wasn't who she is, then her message might have run the risk of never being heard. I respect the hell out of her for being true to herself.

seizure later fucked around with this message at Apr 18, 2018 around 15:36

jit bull transpile
Jan 6, 2012

f $o(^PUPFRIENDS(friend)) q:friend="" d
. d snuggle^PUPROUTINES(^PUPFRIENDS(friend))

Gary’s Answer

McCloud posted:

I've only watched from s6 forward, and the most aggressive queen I can recall is Bianca, and she was nowhere near as aggressive as Vixen, and usually her shade was made in good humor. Alyssa seemed pretty chill in All stars . And isn't Tati a PoC?


I agree with you in that I think it's how aggressive Vixen is that's the turn off. If she toned it down it wouldn't be as big of a deal when she calls out the other queens.

Minorities get told to tone it down to be be heard all the time. Guess what happens when we do? We become easier to tune out.

Tone policing and respectability politics are a tool the majority uses to drown out minority viewpoints. You're reacting to the vixen this way because something deep down in you is uncomfortable with what she is saying, but you don't see yourself as a person that disagrees with her point so your conscious reaction is one to her tone instead. What you should be asking yourself is "if she's not wrong, why does it matter how loud she is about it?"

I've been doxxed, harassed, stalked, and worse, all just for the crime of posting pro queer words on the internet where anyone can just skip my posts. There's literally no volume at which people will perceive a minority to be being quiet enough to deserve hearing. Silent is the volume people are asking for when they ask us to tone it down.

gays fashion
Dec 28, 2012



I liked The Vixen from the start, but this preview just solidified her position as one of my favorites this season. I don't know how people saw "bullying" in the strategic Eureka/Aquaria pairing, everyone would be living if Shangela pulled a stunt like that.

Re: race and representation: one thing I noticed is that the fanbase (myself included) love the conceited and bitchy personas of queens like Willam and Violet but see those same aspects as negative in someone like Tyra. Of course, Tyra's done a great job of sabotaging her image after the show as well, but that's a different issue.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



cis autodrag posted:

Minorities get told to tone it down to be be heard all the time. Guess what happens when we do? We become easier to tune out.

Tone policing and respectability politics are a tool the majority uses to drown out minority viewpoints. You're reacting to the vixen this way because something deep down in you is uncomfortable with what she is saying, but you don't see yourself as a person that disagrees with her point so your conscious reaction is one to her tone instead. What you should be asking yourself is "if she's not wrong, why does it matter how loud she is about it?"




I'm saying she's overreacting. It's the equivalent of punching someone in the nose for giving you the finger. Proportionate response is a thing. Her skin color is (as far as I can tell) not a factor in my evaluation of her. I'd be just as angry at anyone else who's being belligerent like that because I am conflict averse, and messy confrontational queens are the opposite of my jam.

I mean, I'm going to assume you're American, just because of the cultural baggage you seem to have projecting on me. That's not to say we don't have issues with minorities in Europe (lol) but they are a bit of a different beast than it is in the US.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





gays fashion posted:

Re: race and representation: one thing I noticed is that the fanbase (myself included) love the conceited and bitchy personas of queens like Willam and Violet but see those same aspects as negative in someone like Tyra. Of course, Tyra's done a great job of sabotaging her image after the show as well, but that's a different issue.

fwiw I think Juju always said it best about Tyra: She's just UNT. She was a charisma black void unless she was on stage in front of the judges, I think she was doomed to a bad reception no matter what. I mean she was up against people like Jessica Wild, Juju and Raven at the end there, who were entertaining af both on and off stage. It doesn't excuse all the racial BS she's gotten over the years for 'robbing' Raven, tho, esp from idiots who haven't even watched season 2 and only love Raven from her post RPDR work.

I think it says a lot that the most popular black Ru Girl is Latrice, who is possibly the least offensive person to be on the show no matter the colour of their skin. Latrice has charm for motherfucking days and deserves to be as popular as she is, buuuuut it definitely says something that she's so much more popular over other awesome black queens who may have gotten into arguments with white ones, or been bitchy in ways light skinned queens get passes for, charisma or no.

Who's the most popular black queen after Latrice? Shangela, probably? And she wasn't very well received during season 3, either, a lot of people saw her as a poo poo stirrer-- which she was tbf, but season 3 was a season of shade from everyone-- and she didn't really start getting a ton of love until her post RPDR career.


e: honestly vixen has a lot in common with tyra in terms of how she's approaching the competition. she's there to win and anyone who gets in her way can gently caress off. difference is vixen is fine making relationships with the queens in the werk room while tyra just wanted to stick to herself and was really high and mighty in the werk room.

esperterra fucked around with this message at Apr 18, 2018 around 19:18

Poulpe
Nov 11, 2006
Canadian Santa Extraordinaire


cis autodrag posted:

Minorities get told to tone it down to be be heard all the time. Guess what happens when we do? We become easier to tune out.

Tone policing and respectability politics are a tool the majority uses to drown out minority viewpoints. You're reacting to the vixen this way because something deep down in you is uncomfortable with what she is saying, but you don't see yourself as a person that disagrees with her point so your conscious reaction is one to her tone instead. What you should be asking yourself is "if she's not wrong, why does it matter how loud she is about it?"

I've been doxxed, harassed, stalked, and worse, all just for the crime of posting pro queer words on the internet where anyone can just skip my posts. There's literally no volume at which people will perceive a minority to be being quiet enough to deserve hearing. Silent is the volume people are asking for when they ask us to tone it down.

Yeaaah I feel a bit uncomfortable making statements in this conversation as a member of the majority, but HERE GOES:

I think tone policing is absolutely a thing, and I think racism is definitely still a huge problem, and I also agree with Vixen's point in the other untucked that she's going to get it worse for making Aquaria cry than any white queen ever would! That sucks. Those things suck!

Also, Vixen has a caustic, scathing, volatile personality that actively seeks out fights. And her being black and being vocal about black rights and issues doesn't absolve that.

Poulpe fucked around with this message at Apr 18, 2018 around 19:21

Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi
Mar 26, 2005



esperterra posted:


Who's the most popular black queen after Latrice? Shangela, probably? And she wasn't very well received during season 3, either, a lot of people saw her as a poo poo stirrer-- which she was tbf, but season 3 was a season of shade from everyone-- and she didn't really start getting a ton of love until her post RPDR career.


How popular is Bob? My interaction with the world of drag begins and ends with this show (and this thread), so I have no clue, but given Bob was a favorite on their season, I would think they'd have a pretty fervent following.

Poulpe posted:

Yeaaah I feel a bit uncomfortable making statements in this conversation as a member of the majority, but HERE GOES:

I think tone policing is absolutely a thing, and I think racism is definitely still a huge problem, and I also agree with Vixen's point in the other untucked that she's going to get it worse for making Aquaria cry than any white queen ever would! That sucks. Those things suck!

Also, Vixen has a caustic, scathing, volatile personality that actively seeks out fights. And her being black and being vocal about black rights and issues doesn't absolve that.

As a fellow member of the majority, you spelled out my thoughts on the subject better than I could, so thanks.

Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at Apr 18, 2018 around 19:28

jit bull transpile
Jan 6, 2012

f $o(^PUPFRIENDS(friend)) q:friend="" d
. d snuggle^PUPROUTINES(^PUPFRIENDS(friend))

Gary’s Answer

McCloud posted:

I'm saying she's overreacting. It's the equivalent of punching someone in the nose for giving you the finger. Proportionate response is a thing. Her skin color is (as far as I can tell) not a factor in my evaluation of her. I'd be just as angry at anyone else who's being belligerent like that because I am conflict averse, and messy confrontational queens are the opposite of my jam.

I mean, I'm going to assume you're American, just because of the cultural baggage you seem to have projecting on me. That's not to say we don't have issues with minorities in Europe (lol) but they are a bit of a different beast than it is in the US.

If you're not American you really can't understand the context in which a South Chicago drag queen's fight is happening. I don't want to talk down to you, but you cannot possibly understand the environment in which the vixen grew up and still lives. Shouting is the only way to be heard for someone from Chiraq, and then they'll still ignore you because you're being uppity.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





gently caress how could I forget Bob lmao. Much as I love her season 8 just like escapes from my brain b/c it's my least favourite season. You're right, though. So our list of super popular PoC queens over 12 seasons is p much just Latrice, Shangie and Bob.

Though tbf, when it comes to Bob I seem to recall a lot of people disliking his 'showboating' and being too good and too obvious he was going to win, which I can't seem to recall whether or not Bianca got any of the same backlash for basically the exact same things on season 6. Granted Bianca's season at least had people you could see maaaaybe winning if she wasn't there.

And it's not to say people don't like other black queens at all, but in terms of popularity the gulf between light skinned queens and black queens is always super loving wide despite there being a shitload of amazing black queens who deserve more love.

The thing that grinds my gears the most is every queen gets hate. Doesn't matter what colour their skin is, they're going to get bombed with bullshit on social media. But the black queens don't get just run-of-the-mill hate spam thrown at them, people always have to take it to race in their comment sections and that's loving disgusting. It's like the vitriol for an unliked black queen is x2 compared to the vitriol for an unliked white queen or even different PoC.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



cis autodrag posted:

If you're not American you really can't understand the context in which a South Chicago drag queen's fight is happening. I don't want to talk down to you, but you cannot possibly understand the environment in which the vixen grew up and still lives. Shouting is the only way to be heard for someone from Chiraq, and then they'll still ignore you because you're being uppity.

Eh, that's fair. I mean, I still agree with Poulpe in that she's caustic and picking fights, but I'm also dimly aware that the experience of a PoC in the US is beyond me, as a white dude in Europe.

esperterra posted:

gently caress how could I forget Bob lmao. Much as I love her season 8 just like escapes from my brain b/c it's my least favourite season. You're right, though. So our list of super popular PoC queens over 12 seasons is p much just Latrice, Shangie and Bob.


Bianca doesn't count as PoC? What about Trinity, Naomi, Kim Chi, Chi chi and Tati? And aren't Raja and Raven pretty popular?

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





idk have you read any of my other posts on the matter? The other PoC (latino, asian, or just lighter skinned/mixed) get a huuuuuuuuge pass from the fanbase compared to black ones, whether their behaviour is the same or not.

Oh lol I wrote PoC in that post instead of specifying popular black queens. Okay yeah that's my b.

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


It seems like black/non-black probably frames the issue more clearly than white/non-white in this case.

Edit: beaten

jit bull transpile
Jan 6, 2012

f $o(^PUPFRIENDS(friend)) q:friend="" d
. d snuggle^PUPROUTINES(^PUPFRIENDS(friend))

Gary’s Answer

Toast Museum posted:

It seems like black/non-black probably frames the issue more clearly than white/non-white in this case.

Edit: beaten

Yes.

Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi
Mar 26, 2005



It's worth remembering Vixen's literal first words when she made her workroom entrance were, "I just here to fight."

Like, it's not exactly a big loving stretch to say being confrontational and abrasive is a big part of her personality, and frankly that a big turnoff for me regardless of your race, gender, orientation or whatever other way you want to categorize yourself.

the escape goat
Apr 16, 2008

What a week it's been.
So much to talk about.
And so many things we can't talk about.

Pillbug

Tone policing is totally a thing, but so is being a complete loving rear end in a top hat.
People trying to give Vixen a pass because "oh people shouldn't be tone policing" aren't really helping the situation whatsoever.

I'm a white cis woman and back in the day before I learned to interact with people, I'd regularly get told to calm the hell down because people were automatically tuning me out due to delivery. Once I figured out how to bring it to a 6 from an 11, people were a hell of a lot more responsive to what I had to say and my points of view.

Is Vixen an angry black woman? Yes. Is she allowed to be? Yes. Is it a problem that she's a complete fuckin' bully? YES, and there's zero, absolutely zero reason to give her a pass on that because "oh no people are tone policing". Folks burying their head in the sand because they don't want to seem like they're being lowkey racist is just a way to further muddy the issue.

Vixen is picking fights for no reason, her first line being "I'm here to fight" set an immediate tone, and there was legit no purpose in her inserting herself in the initial Aquaria / Miz Cracker drama. Hell, there wasn't really any drama to begin with until Vixen started hollering about it! She should've dropped it the instant Aquaria said that she didn't need Vixen to take a stand on the issue.


All that said, Vixen wasn't wrong about queens of color being poo poo on far more than white queens. The fandom has only become more toxic over time. I'm honestly glad that I have you folks to talk to rather than trying to go to Reddit or Twitter to discuss the show.

Another thing that I think is worth mentioning- it is wildly hosed up that queens with "skinny up and down pole bodies" (Jasmine I love you) are getting a pass on serving "boy body" on the runway but any queens with a thicker frame are expected to cinch themselves so they aren't called out for having a "hog body". Complete bummer.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





fwiw I think it bears repeating that my stance on Vixen is I definitely think she's a bully, but I dig a confrontational queen and I'd rather have an rear end in a top hat pointing out the racial issues in the fandom than have nobody being brave enough to point directly at the cameras and finally spell it out.

e: I think the tone policing argument might hold more water if it were only a white queen that told Vixen to chill (and if she hadn't barged into the Aquaria/Miz drama from the go and straight up said she wanted to mess with Aquaria by having her on the same team as Cracker). maybe I'm remembering wrong and need to rewatch episode 2's Untucked, but wasn't Monique in agreement with Cracker that maybe Vixen needs to take it down from an 11, and that yes she has a point but a lot of her anger is just her wanting to fight?

Tone policing is 1000000% a thing but I don't think it's super relevant in Vixen's case, at least not in the initial Aquaria drama. The Eureka stuff was just a clusterfuck all around and Eureka was being a stinkyhole either on purpose or pretending it was on purpose to save face later.

esperterra fucked around with this message at Apr 18, 2018 around 20:07

jit bull transpile
Jan 6, 2012

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Gary’s Answer

esperterra posted:

fwiw I think it bears repeating that my stance on Vixen is I definitely think she's a bully, but I dig a confrontational queen and I'd rather have an rear end in a top hat pointing out the racial issues in the fandom than have nobody being brave enough to point directly at the cameras and finally spell it out.

This is basically how I feel. She's addressing these issues in the way the world she grew up in taught her to and it's about time someone did it.

the escape goat
Apr 16, 2008

What a week it's been.
So much to talk about.
And so many things we can't talk about.

Pillbug

esperterra posted:

fwiw I think it bears repeating that my stance on Vixen is I definitely think she's a bully, but I dig a confrontational queen and I'd rather have an rear end in a top hat pointing out the racial issues in the fandom than have nobody being brave enough to point directly at the cameras and finally spell it out.

I don't know if it's bravery so much as this being the season the one where the queens have been the most self-aware and very much aware of how the fandom will react to anything. Season 9 was a huge eye-opener for a lot of people when it came to issues of race, etc. She had an astonishing amount of hate dropped on her simply because she was an exceptional queen and got farther than the fan favorite "Selena of Drag" (my god that made my eyes roll so hard they fell out of my rear end).

Jasmine and Kennedy definitely caught hate for how they ~condoned~ themselves on season 7, but Shea seemed to be the first to be torn down specifically because she knew that she was killing the game.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.





Ever since social media got big it's been pretty clearer imo to fans active online and the queens themselves that there are racial issues, but season 9's reunion was certainly the first time they triiiied to broach the subject on the show proper-- or the first time the producers included it in the edit, at least.

The bigger the show gets the more crazy it gets and I think it's finally coming to a head now. Season 9 was a season of queens restraining themselves to try and downplay bad reception from online fans. Season 10 is Vixen saying gently caress playing nice to make the people happy, let's be real about the hosed up part of the fandom's behaviour online.

Poulpe
Nov 11, 2006
Canadian Santa Extraordinaire


esperterra posted:

one policing is 1000000% a thing but I don't think it's super relevant in Vixen's case, at least not in the initial Aquaria drama. The Eureka stuff was just a clusterfuck all around and Eureka was being a stinkyhole either on purpose or pretending it was on purpose to save face later.

Ughghgh Eureka just needs to go home already
I AM INSECURE AND NOW I AM CRYING
I AM INSECURE AND NOW I AM PROJECTING
I AM INSECURE AND NOW I AM FIGHTING WITH YOU

Good God get a grip, girl.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



esperterra posted:

idk have you read any of my other posts on the matter? The other PoC (latino, asian, or just lighter skinned/mixed) get a huuuuuuuuge pass from the fanbase compared to black ones, whether their behaviour is the same or not.

Oh lol I wrote PoC in that post instead of specifying popular black queens. Okay yeah that's my b.

Ah ok that makes sense. Naomi, Trinity and Tati still count tho

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the escape goat
Apr 16, 2008

What a week it's been.
So much to talk about.
And so many things we can't talk about.

Pillbug

Agreed. Eureka is an absolute pain in the rear end, and it makes me wonder what talented queen didn't make it on the show because they brought Eureka back.

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