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  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt__kig8PVU Bigger version of the dog face poster Isle of Dogs is the new movie by the most hated director of every elitist in the mid-to-late 00s, Wes Anderson. Returning to the stop-motion of 2009's Fantastic Mr. Fox, it's set 20 years in the future in a somewhat dystopian Japan: quote:ISLE OF DOGS tells the story of ATARI KOBAYASHI, 12-year-old ward to corrupt Mayor Kobayashi. When, by Executive Decree, all the canine pets of Megasaki City are exiled to a vast garbage-dump called Trash Island, Atari sets off alone in a miniature Junior-Turbo Prop and flies across the river in search of his bodyguard-dog, Spots. There, with the assistance of a pack of newly-found mongrel friends, he begins an epic journey that will decide the fate and future of the entire Prefecture. As you can see from the second poster, the cast is as star-studded and vast as can be expected from an Anderson flick: quote:Bryan Cranston as Chief, Koyu Rankin as Atari Kobayashi, Edward Norton as Rex, Bob Balaban as King, Bill Murray as Boss, Jeff Goldblum as Duke, Kunichi Nomura as Mayor Kobayashi, Akira Takayama as Major Domo, Greta Gerwig as Tracy Walker, Frances McDormand as Interpreter Nelson, Akira Ito as Professor Watanabe, Scarlett Johansson as Nutmeg, Harvey Keitel as Gondo, F. Murray Abraham as Jupiter, Yoko Ono as Assistant Scientist Yoko Ono, Tilda Swinton as Oracle, Ken Watanabe as Head Surgeon, Mari Natsuki as Auntie, Fisher Stevens as Scrap, Nijiro Murakami as Editor Miroshi, Liev Schreiber as Spots, Courtney B. Vance as the narrator, Yojiro Noda as News Anchor, Frank Wood as Simul-Translate Machine Early word is very good, with Anderson winning the Best Director Prize at the Berlin Film Fest, and the movie currently sitting at 93% on RT after 57 reviews. There's talk of some "problematic" cultural appropriation moments, especially involving the main character speaking out against the corrupt Japanese government being a white exchange student, but it's far from dominating the narrative - most just say it continues his recent hot streak and is as insanely detailed and funny and adorable as you would expect. The movie comes out tomorrow, March 23rd, in the US, and then gradually over the next couple months in most other countries. I personally will be seeing it at a preview screening on the 25th before it comes out properly in the UK on the 30th, and I am very excited indeed!!!!
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Mar 22, 2018 09:10
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Escobarbarian posted:There's talk of some "problematic" cultural appropriation moments, especially involving the main character speaking out against the corrupt Japanese government being a white exchange student, but it's far from dominating the narrative - most just say it continues his recent hot streak and is as insanely detailed and funny and adorable as you would expect. "Hot streak" is an apt visual metaphor for most of Anderson's films. Like and subscribe for more.
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Mar 22, 2018 10:38
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I think I'll give Fantastic Mr. Fox another shot before seeing this. I was lukewarm on it the first time through, but I think that's mainly because I had a bad reaction to the musical number halfway (?) through.
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Mar 22, 2018 13:23
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Shanty posted:I think I'll give Fantastic Mr. Fox another shot before seeing this. I was lukewarm on it the first time through, but I think that's mainly because I had a bad reaction to the musical number halfway (?) through. I was also lukewarm on Fantastic Mr. Fox, which was really unexpected for me because I'm a huge Anderson fanboy. Love almost everything he's done. Anyway, I'm hearing rumblings of a controversy over some bad Asian stereotypes in the movie, anyone know if there's truth to that?
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Mar 22, 2018 14:08
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The kid being called Atari definitely isn't the best sign.
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Mar 22, 2018 23:34
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Escobarbarian posted:The kid being called Atari definitely isn't the best sign. Yeah, Nintendo would of been a much better choice
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Mar 22, 2018 23:36
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Basebf555 posted:Anyway, I'm hearing rumblings of a controversy over some bad Asian stereotypes in the movie, anyone know if there's truth to that? I'm optimistic there'll be more to it because I like Anderson's stuff a lot too, but the trailer we saw, at least the way it was cut together, was pretty bad.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:35
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I saw the film tonight and enjoyed it, especially the characters and catchy music. A few things were very Mary Sue, but in the end it was no big deal. Highly recommend this film.
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Mar 24, 2018 07:14
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Saw it tonight. I'll say that there *are* things to consider in regards to the way cultures are presented by creators who are not from those cultures. The criticism is valid and the conversation is important. Even so, it's a fantastic movie that still has a whole lot of wonderful stuff to offer. It's now my second favorite movie by Anderson, hands down. Some of the most breathtaking stop motion animation I've ever seen and genuinely some of the funniest bits he's written out in his career. Solid characters and the story flows seamlessly. Give it a chance, try to understand the criticisms, but still enjoy (or hate) the movie as much as you please.
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Mar 25, 2018 08:51
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Why isn't this movie playing anywhere near me? Closest theater showing it is in NYC which is 60 miles away 
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Mar 27, 2018 12:51
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It's gonna be amazing to read the reviews from Japanese critics on this one, holy moly.
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Mar 27, 2018 14:35
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RCarr posted:Why isn't this movie playing anywhere near me? Closest theater showing it is in NYC which is 60 miles away Sounds like it's doing a slow rollout. It is Fox Searchlight.
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Mar 27, 2018 15:08
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Basebf555 posted:Anyway, I'm hearing rumblings of a controversy over some bad Asian stereotypes in the movie, anyone know if there's truth to that? You definitely shouldn't watch it. My uncle works for Hollywood and he got me an advanced copy and all the characters say "Ding dong ning nang", etc, for all their lines with subtitles. Urinating in soda was a major plot point. Those aren't even the right stereotypes, wtf! I literally started crying halfway through it and have not yet stopped. Serious answer, I doubt it will be a mean portrayal, but also will not cleave in any way to reality. Pretty much all of Anderson's portrayals of cultures- including American- are these distillations of old romantic literary\film portrayals of those cultures. It's gonna come off as ignorant if you're looking for a sensitive attempt at verisimilitude in representing the thoughts and feelings\experiences of the Japanese.
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Mar 27, 2018 19:57
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It will also probably have a pretty good soundtrack.
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Mar 27, 2018 19:58
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It's definitely weird seeing a movie where an entire country is established as a single-minded threat, it'd be like if they were on the run from Israel and everyone there had a giant hook nose.
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Mar 27, 2018 20:52
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Magic Hate Ball posted:It's definitely weird seeing a movie where an entire country is established as a single-minded threat, it'd be like if they were on the run from Israel and everyone there had a giant hook nose. it doesn't seem like that at all
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Mar 28, 2018 01:37
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:it doesn't seem like that at all Sure it does, unless it's different in the movie the trailer gives the impression of a kind of evil catchall fantasy version of Japan.
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Mar 28, 2018 01:52
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Sure it does, unless it's different in the movie the trailer gives the impression of a kind of evil catchall fantasy version of Japan. "Listen to me affirm my position about an entire movie based on information I was only able to obtain in a trailer"
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Mar 28, 2018 04:51
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Just got out of this, it was extremely good as expected. There are some moments that gave me an almost Stephen King vibe, which was really interesting, like from his earlier, punchier, more paranoiac books. Anderson does a pretty good job of establishing the use of Japan as a stylistic device within the film, it kinda reminded me of Chomet’s version of America in Triplets of Belleville only less overtly satirical. I can’t think of another film recently where something like that happens, it feels like such a huge throwback. I wonder what the Japanese will think. It’s definitely odd - by compacting an entire people (and enlisting a white girl to literally shake sense into Yoko Ono) he essentially uses “Japanese stuff” as a catchy look. The actual visual has more to do with Japanese films of the 60s, he’s particularly good at using his obsession with icons, details, and intruding modern western architecture (see also the queasy supermarket ending of Fantastic Mr Fox) to nail that vibe. It’s just good fun. There’s always something to look at, the dry humor is used both to cut the tension and to elevate it, and it’s a great continuation of his interest in childhood trauma and indignation.
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Mar 28, 2018 05:45
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I didn't enjoy this one as much as I thought I would. It somehow all hinged on how I thought the portrayal of all the Japanese elements were going to pan out, and it missed the mark for me. However, after it was over I heard a group of kids from my showing talking about how awesome it was and how it was better than Fantastic Mr Fox and they want to see it again. That made me feel a lot less bummed about it not being a career-defining tour de force. Even if the plot is flawed (why does Chief go on a whole spiel about how he's "a biter" but then lets Atari touch him as soon as they're separated from the group? Could have been a more interesting arc if they extended that a bit and it would have fit in fine with everything else around it.) it's still a fun Wes Anderson ride.
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Mar 28, 2018 08:20
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The "white savior" critiques on this feel misplaced to me. Tracy has a hand in saving the day, but the story doesn't spend that much time with her, and the movie definitely isn't meant to be experienced from her American perspective. This isn't a "Dancing With Wolves" or "Avatar" type situation where the foreign culture represents something primitive and exotic, and outside of the scene where her visa is revoked a Japanese character could be swapped in without any changes to the story. As far as simplistic portrayals of a culture from an outsider, I'm more  at the idea that Atari swayed an entire population of scared people with a haiku.Overall enjoyed this. The cinematography was beautiful in some parts (the sake bottle hideout in particular), but never really blew my mind like parts of "Fantastic Mr. Fox" (specifically the electrical fence fight). warez fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 09:43
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It’s cringey and kind of ruins the film for me. Like I love japan and a movie that’s a love letter to both Japan and dogs should be a home run with me, and it struck right out. It’s like a nightmare Japan from 80s propaganda. And it doesn’t sit right. The dog stuff is mostly great, but it’s so saturated in this othered enemy Japan that has to be saved by a white kid. It’s so tonedeaf. Edit:Tracey could be swapped out with a local and the scene mention above could have been used as a commentary on contemporary politics (really the whole movie) but instead just comes off as stereotypical and othering. The more I marinate on it the more I dislike it. I don’t think it’s intentional, but that might make it worse. Blah. Ambitious Spider fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 20:09
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ShoogaSlim posted:I didn't enjoy this one as much as I thought I would. It somehow all hinged on how I thought the portrayal of all the Japanese elements were going to pan out, and it missed the mark for me. It was all a put-on. Liked this! Really inventive and touching, though Anderson's storybook directing did it make feel like being emotional was obligatory. Other than the obvious heartstring tugging, this movie is probably the best directed (and best looking) movie he's ever done. It just wasn't that substantive thematically or in a big idea way. I felt way more watching Where the Wild Things than I ever did watching this movie, but still it's definitely something that needs to be seen. e: Wes Anderson's distance between himself and the audience has never been deeper, and the Japanese stuff might be problematic if it wasn't so fantastical. Eager to get a take from someone who's from there though.
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Mar 28, 2018 20:24
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Ambitious Spider posted:It’s like a nightmare Japan from 80s propaganda. The political climate portrayed feels like such blatant commentary on America right now (I mean the opposing party is literally "The Science Party") that I didn't really read it as any kind of meaningful portrayal of Japan specifically (though that begs the question, why put the story in Japan in the first place if he really just wanted to make another film about the dangers of fascism? are there some uniquely Japanese film references that I'm not picking up on here?) Shageletic posted:Eager to get a take from someone who's from there though. Yeah, same. It's interesting how the conversations Americans have about these things don't always line up with how Japanese people interpret them. warez fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 21:40
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I think like most of what Wes Anderson does, it was about exploring a new aesthetic. He just got a lot of Egyptian art and into Claymation (which I think this was?) and here is this movie now. e: lol meant Japanese art Shageletic fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 22:16
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This movie is incredible to look at. In its own league. I was going to say "gorgeous," but that's not quite right. It's visually delicious, a literal feast for the eyes. Otherwise, I found it a bit underwhelming. There is a fair amount of mediocre, histrionic dialogue. The plot never really grabs you. Fantastic Mr. Fox is a much better film, one of my favorite movies actually, even though this was visually superior. Idk about the cultural stuff, I broke up with my longterm Japanese girlfriend recently and am sure she would have had plenty to say about that. I avoided watching this as a consequence, but my friends really wanted to see it, and I thought facing it was an important step towards getting over the breakup. Instead I spent the whole time missing her, so that may unconsciously bias me against it. :/ Also, he kind of hits you over the head with the film references. I snorted out loud at the "his name was Toshiro" line. It's a very good film definitely worth seeing, it just could have been better, and that fact tugged at me throughout. KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 29, 2018 04:53
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I feel like the problem with this movie isn't "cultural appropriation" so much the fact that Japanese people are literally portrayed as less human than dogs. The fact that critiques are being framed in terms of cultural appropriation to me just highlights how incredibly powerful and deeply rooted racism towards East Asian people and societies is in the Anglo consciousness, that people are apparently unwilling to just call something as blatant as this racist and instead are diving deep into postmodern academic jargon for some sort of excuse/way out of acknowledging explicitly that portraying Asian people as subhuman is categorically wrong and unacceptable. Maybe I'm just a thin-skinned weaboo lib though? 
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 29, 2018 14:50
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That's a big part of my question of like, why was this movie set in Japan? I get the concept of [literal under-]dogs vs a congealed other, but making the "other" something so specific (and a frequent past target of stereotyping and simplifying), even if it is a fantasized (and infantilized) version, means that there's no getting around the realness of the device. There are a couple scenes where a bomb goes off and sends up a mushroom cloud, and it's difficult to understand what you're meant to take away from that because the film's entire approach to the concept of Japanese culture is so garbled that it barely means anything because it has nothing to connect to, because the movie doesn't actually seem to care about the Japanese beyond their aesthetics.
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Mar 29, 2018 18:25
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Magic Hate Ball posted:That's a big part of my question of like, why was this movie set in Japan? Magic Hate Ball posted:the movie doesn't actually seem to care about the Japanese beyond their aesthetics. Seems like the question and the answer. It's set in retro future japan is because they figured it'd make the story look cool.    Like it's a place your little felt models would hang out when they got done hanging out in the retro present midwest south:    There is very few wes anderson movies that take place in logical realistic locations, they all kinda just take place in weird fragmented dreamscapes that are linked with a lose theme. Pretty much every one will jump from the 1800s to the future to the 1980s shot to shot. Or be set in a place like "Zubrowka" where it's 1930s poland that is sometimes 1950s that is also the present day and also doesn't have world war II looming but does sometimes.
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Mar 29, 2018 19:07
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The movie is set in Japan because it contextualizes the relationship between man and dog as loyal samurai serving their liege lord. The entire aesthetic of the film is 50s/60s Japan, when there happened to be a renaissance in Japanese film making. Wes Anderson is paying homage to the works of Kurosawa, Ozu, and numerous other talented filmmakers who worked in that period. I have a really difficult time seeing anything sinister in all this.
Console Role Player fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 29, 2018 19:20
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icantfindaname posted:I feel like the problem with this movie isn't "cultural appropriation" so much the fact that Japanese people are literally portrayed as less human than dogs. The fact that critiques are being framed in terms of cultural appropriation to me just highlights how incredibly powerful and deeply rooted racism towards East Asian people and societies is in the Anglo consciousness, that people are apparently unwilling to just call something as blatant as this racist and instead are diving deep into postmodern academic jargon for some sort of excuse/way out of acknowledging explicitly that portraying Asian people as subhuman is categorically wrong and unacceptable. Maybe I'm just a thin-skinned weaboo lib though?
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Mar 29, 2018 21:17
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Console Role Player posted:The movie is set in Japan because it contextualizes the relationship between man and dog as loyal samurai serving their liege lord. The entire aesthetic of the film is 50s/60s Japan, when there happened to be a renaissance in Japanese film making. Wes Anderson is paying homage to the works of Kurosawa, Ozu, and numerous other talented filmmakers who worked in that period. I have a really difficult time seeing anything sinister in all this. There were similar criticisms when he made The Darjeeling Limited, but really Anderson was trying to pay tribute to an iconic and influential filmmaker(Ray) that half of those critics had probably never heard of. It's just that a lot of how Anderson pays homage to his influences is visual, and for some people that can feel hollow I guess.
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Mar 29, 2018 21:21
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Magic Hate Ball posted:it has nothing to connect to, because the movie doesn't actually seem to care about the Japanese beyond their aesthetics. wes anderson only caring about aesthetics??????
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Mar 29, 2018 22:57
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:How the gently caress did you take away from this movie, "Anderson thinks Japanese people are less human than dogs?" Be more specific You don’t think having the Japanese people speaking unsubtitled Japanese compared to the dogs who are the protagonists and voiced by a bunch of your favorite actors is dehumanizing? It’s flipping the normal scenario upside down, where human characters speak understandable English and animals speak unintelligible gibberish language. It’s using the Japanese people as a mute aesthetic prop, symbolically reversing their status vis-a-vis animals, and hammering into the audience’s brain that they are an alien Other who needs a white savior character to come and identify the sinister conspiracy and dysfunction at the heart of their society icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 01:17
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And by the way, the whole "likes Asian aesthetics/cultural artifacts; dislikes live Asian human beings" complex is also a super deeply rooted and important part of racism towards Asians. The fact that this movie is there for the aesthetics and considers the actual human beings who live there as uninteresting at best, comical and inferior at worst, is the problem
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 01:21
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Have you seen the movie? Or are you basing all of this on the trailer/reviews?
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Mar 30, 2018 01:34
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Symetrique posted:Have you seen the movie? Or are you basing all of this on the trailer/reviews? Yeah, I saw it last night. IMO the trailer and reviews are accurate though
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Mar 30, 2018 01:54
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icantfindaname posted:You don’t think having the Japanese people speaking unsubtitled Japanese compared to the dogs who are the protagonists and voiced by a bunch of your favorite actors is dehumanizing? It’s flipping the normal scenario upside down, where human characters speak understandable English and animals speak unintelligible gibberish language. It’s using the Japanese people as a mute aesthetic prop, symbolically reversing their status vis-a-vis animals, and hammering into the audience’s brain that they are an alien Other who needs a white savior character to come and identify the sinister conspiracy and dysfunction at the heart of their society Why would I find a director hiring Japanese people to say lines in their native tongue dehumanizing? It's not "unintelligible gibberish language" (and considering there's also an entire character devoted to translating for the audience in most of the Japanese-only scenes the claim that they're functionally mute doesn't really ring true for me). e: A few people have mentioned wanting to read some reactions from Japanese speakers warez fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 06:10
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Oh this thread is going places.
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Mar 30, 2018 06:28
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It's pretty interesting b/c personally I didn't think it was racist as much as completely weird, but hell if I'm gonna stop someone from calling it out since I do that so much when it comes to black representation. This is prob the only thread where I can get my mind changed on something based on how well someone shapes an argument.
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Mar 30, 2018 16:18
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