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boop the snoot posted:we can't pay teachers more though because we have to spend almost a trillion on defense or else we will all literally die because of mexicans. It's even stupider than that. Republican-controlled states have basically banned tax increases, so they have no way to raise revenue.
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Apr 2, 2018 20:14
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Oh and the stock market is going tits up. Dow Jones is down 2.5%, S&P500 down 2.74%, NASDAQ down 3%. 
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Apr 2, 2018 20:15
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BigDave posted:How many documenteries are there about Trump? If Oklahoma teachers get that 10k raise, they'll be even with Kentucky.
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Apr 2, 2018 20:31
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I think the last 2-3 Oklahoma 'Teacher of the Year' award recipients have gotten the award and used the notoriety to land a job in another state the following year. http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagel...70c075c2db.html That's the most recent one.
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Apr 2, 2018 20:39
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BigDave posted:Oh and the stock market is going tits up. Dow Jones is down 2.5%, S&P500 down 2.74%, NASDAQ down 3%. My portfolio can't afford trump tweets any more.
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Apr 2, 2018 20:55
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BigDave posted:Oh and the stock market is going tits up. Dow Jones is down 2.5%, S&P500 down 2.74%, NASDAQ down 3%. It's been doing this, and it gets worse every time the President opens his loving mouth. If you want a fun historical parallel, check out the SMoot-Hawley Tariff act, and the fiscial and trade outcomes it spurned. Also trade wars in general have been REALLY loving bad, for everyone. Last time something like this happened, global trade pulled a lemming and dove off a cliff. Here's a recent NYT primer on the matter https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/business/tariff-trump-trade-wars.html
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Apr 2, 2018 20:57
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Not gonna lie, I love it when the stock market drops
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Apr 2, 2018 21:01
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Though it's hard to get excited if it's not the "may as well kill myself because I've spent my whole life in the meaningless pursuit of money to the detriment of literally everything else, and now its gone" levels of collapse
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Apr 2, 2018 21:03
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mods change my name posted:Not gonna lie, I love it when the stock market drops https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k5aVLi_yhM
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Apr 2, 2018 21:05
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you know who usually does just fuckin fine when the market tanks? financial people (in the aggregate)
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Apr 2, 2018 21:06
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boop the snoot posted:or else we will all literally die because of mexicans. I could probably eat burritos to death so there might be something to this fear.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:06
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mods change my name posted:Though it's hard to get excited if it's not the "may as well kill myself because I've spent my whole life in the meaningless pursuit of money to the detriment of literally everything else, and now its gone" levels of collapse Those types are just losing their bonuses, you got public school teachers and lifetime public servants getting their savings wiped out in a lot of these corrections because 90% of those cut-rate funds management firms are playing fast and loose with risk distribution and the like. I mean, look at the head of one of the major Financial Protection watchdogs: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-02/mulvaney-gives-congress-advice-on-stripping-away-his-cfpb-powers I'm not partisan, but the current GOP pretty much wants to kill us all through sheer buffoonery Immanentized fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 21:06
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Well gently caress it all let's riot
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Apr 2, 2018 21:09
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mods change my name posted:Though it's hard to get excited if it's not the "may as well kill myself because I've spent my whole life in the meaningless pursuit of money to the detriment of literally everything else, and now its gone" levels of collapse Need more Black Monday 
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Apr 2, 2018 21:09
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Oh no those poor stock holders
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Apr 2, 2018 21:13
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Oh no those poor stock holders The poor stock holders are everyone with a 401k FYI. The actual rich people don't even notice when your parents have their retirement accounts wiped out. Edit: dammit it was PCM I responded to
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Apr 2, 2018 21:20
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Oh no those poor stock holders Yeah, I mean it's not like the US has been dismantling pensions and other localized retirement schemes for decades and shifting all possible solutions over into a stock-market dependent vehicle that is fully exposed to every risk, correction, and collapse associated with securities and stock trading, or anything. Surely the impact of this poo poo will only effect the dudes in the oxford blue shirts and over-starched white collars. I mean, it's not like anybody wholly relies on their IRA, 401k, 403b, or whatever to wholly sustain them in their retirements. Forget this edgelord LF nonsense about stock devaluation or market corrections hurting traders or broker-dealers. There are methods to make money no matter what, and those methods are HEAVILY exploited by the Financial class. Stock market dips like this hurt your blue collar, or corporate drone types way, way harder than anyone else. Mutual funds, or ETFs share risk, and they share volatility. If your holdings in EMLP get hit or whatever, so do the 600,000 other people that have it as a major indicator in their retirement savings. Diversification can only protect you so much if the whole market is adjusting. Speaking of rich fucks: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/us/ethan-couch-affluenza-jail.html
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Apr 2, 2018 21:21
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psydude posted:It's even stupider than that. Republican-controlled states have basically banned tax increases, so they have no way to raise revenue. So did California, but only for property taxes, which may be even dumber somehow.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:28
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https://twitter.com/david_j_roth/status/980834000129417216 https://twitter.com/Eclectablog/status/980904601250656257 Sounds like a good use of an senior officers time (not being sarcastic)
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Apr 2, 2018 21:33
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I don't think some of you understand how the stock market and 401k funds work. Pretty much all lifecycle funds move their money into bonds and other fixed income assets as their constituents approach retirement age; people who are younger will be more exposed to risk, however that also means that there's more time for them to withstand the ebbs and flows. For people invested in index funds and direct stocks, yeah they're probably taking a bit of a beating, the same principles apply: invest for the long term instead of for next week. If you liquidate your positions every time the Cheeto farts on Twitter then you probably deserve to lose whatever money.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:35
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psydude posted:I don't think some of you understand how the stock market and 401k funds work. Pretty much all lifecycle funds move their money into bonds and other fixed income assets as their constituents approach retirement age; people who are younger will be more exposed to risk, however that also means that there's more time for them to withstand the ebbs and flows. For people invested in index funds and direct stocks, yeah they're probably taking a bit of a beating, the same principles apply: invest for the long term instead of for next week. If you liquidate your positions every time the Cheeto farts on Twitter then you probably deserve to lose whatever money. Yeah but the thing is that with most employer offered 401k plans, the investor isn't empowered to make decisions as quickly, or isn't being educated. I think it was 70% or greater of people using an employer plan hadn't adjusted their target date, or initial investment options. Most of which are set on raw stock aggregates. These people shouldn't be coddled, but they also shouldn't have the risk exposure they do because they're being actively underinformed.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:46
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I should still meet my employer's match on a 401k right?
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Apr 2, 2018 21:52
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boop the snoot posted:I should still meet my employer's match on a 401k right? Hell yes. Free money. I bump my 401k contribution up a percent or so every year.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:54
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Immanentized posted:Yeah but the thing is that with most employer offered 401k plans, the investor isn't empowered to make decisions as quickly, or isn't being educated. I think it was 70% or greater of people using an employer plan hadn't adjusted their target date, or initial investment options. Most of which are set on raw stock aggregates. Okay, but again it's not as if money is coming directly out of their pockets. Unless they just dumped their entire life savings into their 401k yesterday and are trying to retire next week, they're probably up on the whole. Even people who had their 401ks take a hit during the recession are up over their pre recession values (and if they invested heavily in the depths of the recession then they're probably doing incredibly well). The people primarily affected by this are day traders and people wealthy enough to have a 2% market movement cost them a lot of money. It also doesn't have any bearing on the long term pricing of individual stocks, since companies' individual performance will overrule any market dip or rally.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:56
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holocaust bloopers posted:Hell yes. Free money. I bump my 401k contribution up a percent or so every year. I don't know much about 401ks other than the free money aspect. I don't know how tied 401ks are to the stock market volatility, which seems to be pretty Trumpy right now.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:57
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boop the snoot posted:I don't know much about 401ks other than the free money aspect. I don't know how tied 401ks are to the stock market volatility, which seems to be pretty Trumpy right now. You weren't required to take a personal finance course as an accountant? OK well a 401k is really just an account that is sheltered from taxation until you begin to withdrawal from it at retirement age. Within that account, you can invest in a variety of different mutual funds (someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure 401k accounts are barred from directly investing in the stock market). Mutual funds diversify risk by spreading out the investors' money among different types of securities (stocks, bonds, futures, other funds, whatever). Most brokerages also offer something called a target retirement fund, which adjusts the allocation of money into different types of securities (and different types of companies) depending upon how much risk the investor can stand to take. If you're far from retirement, your chief goal is building up wealth, therefore you're willing to take on more risk by being more heavily invested in equity (stocks), which tend to gain more value over time, but which are also susceptible to stupid poo poo like Donald Trump. As you move closer to retirement age, most of these lifecycle funds will begin to move your funds from direct equity (stocks) into less risky investments, such as other funds, securities (like mortgages and other secured loans), and bonds (the least risky of them all, but also the lowest payout). Your goal in a 401k is to make sure not only that you're saving money, but that you're getting the maximum return on your investment. This means that you'll want to beat the rate of inflation, which means you're going to invest in investment vehicles that are slightly riskier than fixed income payments, but which tend to recover over time through different market cycles. A good fund manager will also determine when a stock has reached its potential maximum and then will begin to liquidate the position and then reinvest the capital gains (your profits) into other stocks or investments in order to grow your money. Always contribute to your 401k, even if you don't have an employer match or even if you want to go above your employer match. My brother bought into the flawed line of thinking that dips in the stock market permanently wipe out money and didn't bother contributing to any retirement fund until he was 35, missing out on 13 years of potential tax free saving and investment. Personal investments (non-401k investments) are another topic, but the same applies in terms of risk, whether you're buying and holding the stocks and mutual funds yourselves, or you're paying a brokerage/wealth manager to do it for you. psydude fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 22:05
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In case people missed it, lowtax had bonitis surgery
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Apr 2, 2018 22:11
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psydude posted:Okay, but again it's not as if money is coming directly out of their pockets. Unless they just dumped their entire life savings into their 401k yesterday and are trying to retire next week, they're probably up on the whole. Even people who had their 401ks take a hit during the recession are up over their pre recession values (and if they invested heavily in the depths of the recession then they're probably doing incredibly well). You're absolutely right, my concern is supplementary, more focused on the type who get flighty and do poo poo like earthly cash out, or who wholly divest and try their hands at landlording. I was definitely talking past you there. Been working on my series licenses so I got caught up in the glib posting. Oh yeah, and to your reply to Boop the Snoot new hotness is that some 401ks through Empower allow for active buying and limited trading or selling of actual stocks.
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Apr 2, 2018 22:19
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I get the points about tax advantages for saving for retirement now, but I think it's pretty optimistic to be thinking anyone around the average age of this forum is going to be retiring at all. People of retirement age *now* are getting turbo hosed. Decades more of capitalism doing it's thing doesn't leave a lot of optimism that it's going to be a likely outcome.
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Apr 2, 2018 22:23
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psydude posted:You weren't required to take a personal finance course as an accountant? Nope. One of my biggest complaints about the education system in the US is the lack of focus on personal finance. Thanks for all of the other info.
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Apr 2, 2018 22:25
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If you want a bunch of in-depth posts on personal finance I highly recommend Jim Collins' Stock Series: http://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/
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Apr 2, 2018 22:45
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I still need to move my TSP into my current 401k
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Apr 2, 2018 22:49
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My retirement plan is robbing liquor stores. One way or the other I'll be happily retired.
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Apr 2, 2018 22:51
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America: thought of Mexico and died.
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Apr 2, 2018 22:56
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holocaust bloopers posted:I still need to move my TSP into my current 401k Check the fees on each. There's a good chance the TSP is cheaper.
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Apr 2, 2018 22:59
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Maintenance fees on funds tend to be fairly low. You're not going to notice the difference between .13% and .19%.
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Apr 2, 2018 23:02
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Crakkerjakk posted:Check the fees on each. There's a good chance the TSP is cheaper. Yea but I can get much more out of combing the two. It’s a small amount in the tsp
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Apr 2, 2018 23:10
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 Well that's certainly a thing.
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Apr 2, 2018 23:25
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Lol that will go over well, surely
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Apr 2, 2018 23:30
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:Maintenance fees on funds tend to be fairly low. You're not going to notice the difference between .13% and .19%. 401ks are pretty infamous for being loaded with high fee funds. Some companies will have low fee index funds as an option, but a lot of companies load up 2-3% fee options and don't make any effort to make it clear that's what you're signing up for.
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Apr 2, 2018 23:35
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