Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«196 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Egbert Souse
Nov 6, 2008



A quick guide to boutique labels...

The Criterion Collection (US/CA/UK)

Started in 1984 as a joint venture between film distributor Janus Films and laserdisc manufacturer Voyager, Criterion has become the gold standard of stellar home video releases. They switched from laserdisc to DVD in March 1998 and later began releasing Blu-rays in December 2008. The label is best known for high quality, restored presentations of films with extensive supplemental features. Their second laserdisc, King Kong, featured the first audio commentary track (though, Orson Welles was approached to record one for Citizen Kane prior to his death). While they release many arthouse and foreign films, such as those by the directors like Ingmar Bergman, Akira Kurosawa, and Federico Fellini; they also release many mainstream and cult films by newer directors like Wes Anderson and Richard Linklater. Their eclectic range of titles include film school staples (The Seventh Seal, 8 1/2), mainstream hits (Dr. Strangelove, Night of the Living Dead), cult classics (Multiple Maniacs, House), and deep obscurities (A Hollis Frampton Odyssey, Jean Painleve: Science is Fiction).

Recent and upcoming releases (as of April 2018) include: Night of the Living Dead, The Silence of the Lambs, Elevator to the Gallows, Tom Jones, The Passion of Joan of Arc, Dead Man, King of Jazz, Women in Love, An Actor's Revenge, Bowling for Columbine, and Female Trouble.

Shout! Factory (US)

Started as a primarily music-oriented label in 2002 by former founders of Rhino Records. They specialize in cult classics, horror, and sci-fi. Among their most frequently released directors are John Carpenter, Sam Raimi, Brian DePalma, Joe Dante, and Tobe Hooper. Shout! also owns the rights to Mystery Science Theater 3000 and Roger Corman's self-produced films, as well as US distributor for IFC Films and Studio Ghibli.

Recent and upcoming releases (as of April 2018) include: Carrie, Drag Me to Hell, The Thing, Curse of the Cat People, It's Alive, In the Mouth of Madness, Wild at Heart, and Matinee.

Kino Lorber (US)

One of the oldest home video labels has gone through many changes since its founding in 1977 as a theatrical distributor. Best known for their releases of silent cinema and foreign films. Currently, while also specializing in silent cinema (being the US distributor for nearly all German silent films), they have also branched out to mainstream studio libraries. Their sublabel Kino Lorber Studio Classics mines the MGM, Fox, and Paramount libraries for both well-known and obscure films.

Recent and upcoming releases (as of April 2018) include: Fritz Lang: The Silent Films, The Outer Limits: Season 1, The Lion in Winter, The Covered Wagon, Seven Beauties, and Pioneers of African-American Cinema.

Arrow Video (UK/US/CA)

While originally known as purveyor of shlock and cult titles only when they began releasing on VHS in 1991, Arrow has become an equal to Criterion in terms of presentation quality and supplements. Releasing a wide range of films such as cult classics like Zardoz, Forbidden Zone, and the films of Herschell Gordon Lewis; they have also branched into classic and arthouse cinema with films like Sullivan's Travels and The Tree of Wooden Clogs. In 2014, they started their US branch and have released many titles in both US and UK territories, though many UK exclusives are available from other labels. They supervise many 2K and 4K restorations, including some imported into the US by other labels (Criterion used their 2K remaster of Time Bandits).

Recent and upcoming releases (as of April 2018) include: Last House on the Left (US/UK), The Marx Brothers at Paramount (UK), Between Night and Dawn (early George Romero features - US/UK), and Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (UK).

Masters of Cinema (UK)

While only working on a fraction of output today, in its prime MoC was considered the Criterion of England. They have specialized in silent films by Fritz Lang, F.W. Murnau, and Ernst Lubitsch; as well as other classic and arthouse films. One hallmark of their editions is the inclusion of books, sometimes over 200 pages! Do note that all of their releases are coded for Region B only except for a few (Sunrise and City Girl). Most releases use existing masters by studios rather than any in-house work other than encoding/compression.

Essential releases include: Man with the Movie Camera and Other Works by Dziga Vertov, Nosferatu, Intolerance, Metropolis, and Fear and Desire.

Twilight Time (US)

One of the few labels that releases only strict quantities, usually 3000. Main hallmark of their releases is the inclusion of music-only tracks and commentaries. Only available on their website and Screen Archives Entertainment, besides second-hand copies on Amazon and eBay. Variable quality, as they only use existing masters provided by studios with rare exceptions. They did supervise a re-timing of John Huston's Moby Dick, though based on an existing transfer. Many releases use fresh 4K masters provided by Sony and Fox.

Notable releases include: The Blob (1988), Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, A Man for All Seasons, Zardoz, and The Birth of a Nation (coming soon).

Vinegar Syndrome (US)

One of the newest boutique studios, formed as a result of a highly successful Kickstarter campaign to remaster obscure films like those of Herschel Gordon Lewis. Specializing in everything from low-budget indies like the films of Rudy Ray Moore and Melvin van Peebles to pornos. They also have a side label, Etiquette Pictures, that releases obscure "regular" films like Catch My Soul. Usually perform their own high quality 2K and 4K restorations.

Notable releases include: Christmas Evil, Hobgoblins, Liquid Sky, Ice Cream Man, Jack Frost, and Dolemite.

Olive Films (US)

Originally started as a small label for new-to-DVD/Blu-ray Paramount films, they have branched into licensing from Republic, MGM and Fox as well. A relatively small studio, but highlights would be their Olive Signature Line featuring remasters and extras.

Notable releases include The Quiet Man, Welles' Macbeth, High Noon, Letter to an Unknown Woman, and Johnny Guitar.

Synapse Films (US)

Founded by Don May, former key figure of Elite Entertainment and Dark Sky Films, the label specializes in many underground cult and horror films. Best known for releases of Manos: The Hands of Fate and The Creeping Terror, as well as new restorations of Dario Argento films like Suspiria, Tenebre, and Inferno. Also released Thundercrack!, which is the most hosed up movie I've ever seen (yes, it's hardcore).

Flicker Alley (US)

Relatively new label specializing in silent cinema. Main output for Blackhawk Films and Lobster Films, as well as Cinerama and The Film Noir Foundation. Notable releases include This is Cinerama, Early Women Filmmakers, 3-D Rarities, The Lost World (silent), and Charlie Chaplin's Keystone, Essanay, and Mutual comedies.


edit: Feel free to suggest edits and additions.

Egbert Souse fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Apr 4, 2018

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008



feedmyleg posted:

Is throwing away slipcovers a bannable offense? Asking for a friend.
This isn't BluRay.com. I always toss the things.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

I just want a giant jukebox-style blu-ray player so I don't have to ever deal with disc packaging again.

Brexit the Frog
Aug 22, 2013



Fallen Rib

Egbert Souse posted:

The Criterion Collection (US/CA/UK)
Their first laserdisc, King Kong,

that was their second

mallratcal
Sep 10, 2003

Goodnight Canada!


IUG posted:

I couldn't get a straight price on those, so I assume they're expensive. This is what I use:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1
$10 for 25 sleeves.

I also get these for my CD collection that I'm also breaking down, but I use them when there's more than 2 disks for a movie (good for TV shows):
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1
$12 for 60 sleeves.

Then I get this box to store them in:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1
$12.


I'm tired of looking at them. They take up too much space and I'm tired of buying furniture to store & display them.


My DVDs are all ripped to ISO files and on Kodi networked across my house. I don't need the DVDs anymore, and as soon as I can get enough store space, the blurays will be the same. The DVDs are also already starting to suffer disk rot, and I couldn't rip a few of them that have been in the cases for years prior to that.


Thank you. I feel the same way as you. My collection now needs a room of it's own and I can think of better ideas on how to use the space. Except for the Blurays, those will stay on the shelf since they look good with the home theater setup.

Hirsute
May 3, 2007


When people say slipcovers do they mean the cardboard things with the same graphics/info as the front and back of the actual case? I always throw those out because the cardboard gets nicked up and it just adds an extra step to taking the disc out of the case.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Hirsute posted:

When people say slipcovers do they mean the cardboard things with the same graphics/info as the front and back of the actual case? I always throw those out because the cardboard gets nicked up and it just adds an extra step to taking the disc out of the case.

Nah, I think most people do throw those out because they're redundant. The slip cover is the actual cover that goes inside the plastic of the case(I'm pretty sure?).

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006
TUBGIRL ENTHUSIAST



No, hirsute is right. The slip cover is the cardboard outer that covers the plastic amaray case. Most releases donít have them, and some people get very upset if they order a film that should have one and it doesnít arrive. They donít always have the same art, my Suspiria has the original art which I far prefer.

I keep them, but any paper nonsense thatís gummed on a steel case or similar gets trashed.

Also that guide to the boutique labels was neat and appreciated, thanks!

roffels
Jul 27, 2004

Yo Taxi!

Basebf555 posted:

Half the appeal of having a nice movie collection for me is that I can go over the shelf and look at everything and choose something to watch that fits whatever mood I'm in at the moment. If they were all just stuffed in a box it'd be much less practical and satisfying to do that.

I'm copying all my Blu-rays to my computer. I want those discs out of sight and mind.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

Yeah, I was referring to the cardboard as well. They're just one more barrier between you and your movie.

Boywhiz88
Sep 11, 2005

floating 26" off da ground. BURR!

I think itís trash that Sony didnít put UHD capabilities in the PS4. Hell, doesnít it only push 2K and you need the Pro for 4K or is that just gaming? It makes sense though. Sony was heavily invested in Blu-Ray winning back in 06, but now Iím sure theyíd prefer to purchase digital movies from them directly on their media platform.

People donít realize whatís coming when physical media dies. No standardized quality, the ability to change or rescind purchases, needing an Internet connection. I remember when the MacBook Air debuted and people were gnashing their teeth about repairability. I laughed at them and then a few months back a friend had me take a look at their ultra thin laptop. The only thing I had access to was a board that connected the AC power and keyboard/touchpad input to the motherboard. Nothing else was accessible, etc. then my mind right to how the PC industry gets to gently caress you coming and going.

Kanyeís last album is one of the major examples of digital media fuckery. He changed a few songs after release, and some people prefer the originals. This wasnít correcting a gently caress up necessarily like bad levels or wrong song, this was someone changing the song where you like it or not.

As was mentioned in the last thread, the battle of ďdiminishing upgradesĒ is tough. DVD was revolutionary, Blu-Ray was a refinement, and 4K is the industry not knowing where to go. The discs canít handle special features or anything, so they use a BluRay usually. Most new movies that got to look their best on BluRay are limited due to digital photog so theyíre usually 2K upscales. 3D may have been bum, but it at least altered the experience in a noticeable way. Iíve actually leaned into 3D the last couple months between the blowout on them as it winds down in the US, and because Iíd rather keep my 2K 3D TV than get a larger 4K where everything gets upscaled.

However, I think the niche parts of the market will always remain like it did w/ vinyl but I canít imagine a resurgence like records have experienced in the last 5 years.

Also, since October Iíve used a system where I pull out the movies I want to watch slightly so I donít have to necessarily look at all of my movies but grab one I know Iíve been wanting to watch. I probably come off as a huge Interstellar fan.

EDIT: also fuuuuuck them for not selling a non-collectors version of Kong: Skull Island w 3D/4K/BD. Do you want my money or not!?

EDIT 2: Iíve never seen The Thing. Which should I go with? I feel like the cooler colors from Shout? are more up my alley w how I pereceive the film. But Iíd like the opinions of people who have seen the movie to begin with.

Boywhiz88 fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Apr 5, 2018

Liar Lyre
Jun 3, 2011

TOOT TOOT
All aboard!


Let's celebrate the new thread with a UV code! I got Hardcore Henry up for grabs. ERPE3NE6LNAT

I should probably just save these codes to back up my collection or sell them for a buck, but whatever you guys are cool.

Boinks
Nov 24, 2003



IUG posted:

The DVDs are also already starting to suffer disk rot, and I couldn't rip a few of them that have been in the cases for years prior to that.

Please post examples of your "disc rot" and also what region? Disc rot is a big boogy man in the CD collecting community but it's mostly a myth because it only affects certain pressings and labels, mostly in the UK iirc.

Egbert Souse
Nov 6, 2008



The problem with digital streaming or download is that it's entirely dependent on how good your internet service is. And how good the stream looks.

Most recently, I started watching Faces on Filmstruck. While they have better compression than a lot of other services, the heavy film grain was absolutely wrecked by the compression. Unwatchable. I ended up buying the Blu-ray and it was a night and day difference. Blu-ray handles film grain beautifully thanks to AVC and generally more sophisticated encoding.

I copied nearly my entire short film collections on DVD to digital files. At the time, they looked good. Now the encodes look fairly awful when played on my display. Now I need to re-encode from the originals so they don't look like rear end.

A lot of films would likely never end up on a streaming service. I can't imagine Netflix getting Liquid Sky or Thundercrack! any time soon. For that matter, the physical copies are what help pay for the cost of bringing films back to life. I've actually purchased titles as blind-buys mainly because I wanted to support the effort putting them out.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

I think they both look great, though the warmer colors are probably more accurate to Carpenter's intention. I'd say go with the one with the special features you dig more, or all things equal go with what looks good to you.

GonSmithe
Apr 25, 2010

Perhaps it's in the nature of television. Just waves in space.


Boywhiz88 posted:

I think itís trash that Sony didnít put UHD capabilities in the PS4. Hell, doesnít it only push 2K and you need the Pro for 4K or is that just gaming?

There's (dumb) reasons Sony didn't put a UHD in, but the second part of this post is the same with Sony. The Xbox One doesn't play UHD and isn't in 4K, the Xbox One X is. Same with the PS4 and the PS4 Pro.

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

The Pro doesn't play UHD.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



GonSmithe posted:

Same with the PS4 and the PS4 Pro.
It's trash that they double-dipped the generation to improve their PSVR setup and couldnt toss a loving UHD drive in.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

Modus Pwnens posted:

I find this even more unsettling than the resurgence of cassettes.

(Edit: Audio cassettes, that is, although I wouldn't be surprised if VHS is next.)

There is a small but rabidly devoted niche of VHS collectors who will spend insane amount of money on old video tapes.

feedmyleg posted:

Is throwing away slipcovers a bannable offense? Asking for a friend.

I found out that nerds on the internet actually buy these and in some cases will pay an amount of money that is equal to or greater than the retail value of the movie.

feedmyleg posted:

Yeah, I was referring to the cardboard as well. They're just one more barrier between you and your movie.

Does anyone know why they even put those things on the case?


All good points. I also just prefer to have an actual thing if I pay money for it. In a lot of cases a digital copy of something can be revoked by the copyright owner at any time without warning, plus if you have all your poo poo on a device and said device is damaged, lost, or destroyed then you're poo poo out of luck.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

The future? You mean like flying cars? Hotels on the moon? Tang?


Grimey Drawer

Slipcovers make a better presentation for your product, they make spines more vibrant and easier to read on a shelf, and they provide limited protection for the case itself. I canít believe there are people with strong opinions about them either way.

Tossing all of your cases and cramming the discs into plastic sleeves that you then hide in a larger box is absolutely bonkers, though. Why even bother with physical media at that point? Save yourself the time and effort and just buy digital.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Slipcovers make a better presentation for your product, they make spines more vibrant and easier to read on a shelf, and they provide limited protection for the case itself. I canít believe there are people with strong opinions about them either way.

Tossing all of your cases and cramming the discs into plastic sleeves that you then hide in a larger box is absolutely bonkers, though. Why even bother with physical media at that point? Save yourself the time and effort and just buy digital.

A slip case is only slightly larger than the actual plastic case. I really can't see how it makes such a huge difference. That said I like the ones one the Scream Factory releases because the inside cover is reversible and has the original poster art, so you get to use both covers at once.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Because shrink wrap plastic gets glare on it from overhead lighting which renders the art underneath impossible to see at some angles.

Wandle Cax
Dec 15, 2006


Is that seriously the reason for cardboard slip covers? can't say I've ever had so much unavoidable glare that I couldn't see a dvd cover

curlys gold
Jan 17, 2018



Luckily, people with OCD will pay for these cardboard scuff-magnets.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

The future? You mean like flying cars? Hotels on the moon? Tang?


Grimey Drawer

Wandle Cax posted:

Is that seriously the reason for cardboard slip covers? can't say I've ever had so much unavoidable glare that I couldn't see a dvd cover

Nah, the reasoning for slipcovers is that it looks better on a store shelf and makes you feel like youíre buying a nicer product. Everything else is just a bonus. Itís the same as dust jackets on hardcover books.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Wandle Cax posted:

Is that seriously the reason for cardboard slip covers? can't say I've ever had so much unavoidable glare that I couldn't see a dvd cover

This is one of those things where youíre not even aware of what youíre missing out on. A casual consumer is going to scan a shelf with fifty different titles on it, not bother making sure they look at every single title, and the ones that catch their eye are what theyíll gravitate towards.



Catching your eye is also why home video covers emphasize faces more than movie posters do.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Apr 5, 2018

codyclarke
Jan 10, 2006

IDIOT SOUP

Steve Yun posted:

This is one of those things where youíre not even aware of what youíre missing out on. A casual consumer is going to scan a shelf with fifty different titles on it, not bother making sure they look at every single title, and the ones that catch their eye are what theyíll gravitate towards.

It's essentially a return to paper VHS sleeves, in that sense. Those were always highly visible in video stores.

roffels
Jul 27, 2004

Yo Taxi!

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Slipcovers make a better presentation for your product, they make spines more vibrant and easier to read on a shelf, and they provide limited protection for the case itself. I canít believe there are people with strong opinions about them either way.

Tossing all of your cases and cramming the discs into plastic sleeves that you then hide in a larger box is absolutely bonkers, though. Why even bother with physical media at that point? Save yourself the time and effort and just buy digital.

Digital isn't as good quality when it comes to video or sound.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006
TUBGIRL ENTHUSIAST



I wonder if thereíll be a digital service in the future to replace home disc ripping. Delivery overnight as opposed to streaming.

Brexit the Frog
Aug 22, 2013



Fallen Rib

how on earth do you people have this kinda hard drive space

mallratcal
Sep 10, 2003

Goodnight Canada!


There are plenty of collectors who will pay money for slip covers. Personally I think my Bluray shelf looks better without them.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006
TUBGIRL ENTHUSIAST



Rusty Staub posted:

how on earth do you people have this kinda hard drive space

Best Buy do an 8TB western digital external on sale for between $150-170 every so often. Itís a hell of a deal.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


Rusty Staub posted:

how on earth do you people have this kinda hard drive space


EL BROMANCE posted:

Best Buy do an 8TB western digital external on sale for between $150-170 every so often. It’s a hell of a deal.

I did something like this back in the day (but smaller drives, like 2GB). But now I just have a Synology NAS with four 4 TB drives in it. The other benefit is that it runs the SQL server for Kodi, and my transmission torrents, Sonarr, etc. So not only do these things have the storage space, but they're great accessory machines. I also run my home automation out of it, so I'm not just locked into Nest's/Ikea's/Philip's products. They're really versatile on top of all the storage.

Liar Lyre
Jun 3, 2011

TOOT TOOT
All aboard!


I like getting slipcovers but itís nothing I feel is necessary. Like if there are two copies of a movie on a shelf, Iíll go for the one with the slip over the one with out. No, the real insanity comes with how multiple movies come packaged in a single set. If I can get a series as individual releases with individual plastic cases, Iíll do that over everything in one oversized case. The exception being the collection containing bonus discs like the Star Wars and James Bond sets, them Iíll get that one instead.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006
TUBGIRL ENTHUSIAST



IUG posted:

I did something like this back in the day (but smaller drives, like 2GB). But now I just have a Synology NAS with four 4 TB drives in it.

The Best Buy drives used to have WD Reds inside them which were easy to shuck (take apart and remove the bare drive) which are ideal for NAS and a good chunk cheaper than buying the drive on its own. An absolute win. Theyíre now usually Whites and seem good enough still. I just run them in their enclosures for now, but a future 4x 8TB NAS is tempting.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


EL BROMANCE posted:

The Best Buy drives used to have WD Reds inside them which were easy to shuck (take apart and remove the bare drive) which are ideal for NAS and a good chunk cheaper than buying the drive on its own. An absolute win. Theyíre now usually Whites and seem good enough still. I just run them in their enclosures for now, but a future 4x 8TB NAS is tempting.

Good to know. I'm not hitting the limit of my space yet, but I haven't ripped my blurays yet either. (My wifi probably couldn't handle that, and I need to upgrade that first before I even consider it).

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006
TUBGIRL ENTHUSIAST



Yeah thatís where I am. Relying on WiFi between server and client and the signal quality is fine for Blu-ray remuxes, but not quiiiiiite there for the 4K stuff that causes buffering here and there. Plan to run cable through the ceiling between the rooms at some point, but itís not the most pressing thing in life. Iíll deal with the wifeís occasional grumbles until then

viral spiral
Sep 19, 2017

by R. Guyovich


I only buy physical copies of films I really like. I don't have many of them, and I don't plan on getting rid of them either.

I haven't looked in awhile, but I do have the BluRay Alien Anthology and LOTR Extended sets when thinking about it. I'd imagine they're going to be worth something in 20 years. I once had the Star Wars OT (pre Special Edition) on VHS, got rid of it in the late 90s, and have been shooting myself in the foot for it ever since.

I don't think physical media for movies will ever going away completely. I think the digital codes they put in the box for streaming versions has slowed down physical media's decline considerably?

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006
TUBGIRL ENTHUSIAST



viral spiral posted:

I'd imagine they're going to be worth something in 20 years.

Probably not, they were produced in seriously high numbers and in multiple versions. The only media that's ever worth stuff is the stuff that had to go out of print way before demand, or super limited. It's the same as Beatles LPs - people think they're going to be worth serious money, but they were the most successful band on the planet and a ridiculous numbers of their albums were pressed. Find an oddity, and you've got some money.

I had 80s Star Wars VHS tapes I sold about 2 years ago, just from my collection not because I thought they were worth anything. They got more than your average tape, but nothing too exciting. Don't kick yourself over it. The only tapes I see going for serious money is unusual horror stuff, because horror VHS people are batshit insane.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Egbert Souse
Nov 6, 2008



I only replaced my last VHS in 2016 when Napoleon came out from BFI in the UK. Though, I had been watching it from a bootleg of the 80s Thames Television broadcast since I haven't had a working VCR for years.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«196 »