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SUNKOS
Jun 4, 2016



These new tracks just make me think of how Adore did all of this much better and remains timeless while this will sound dated in a few years.

Noise Machine posted:

The last time I heard a Billy Corgan song that made me go "He's still got it" was Wildflower.

For me it was As Rome Burns. Would not be out of place alongside the heavier songs from Melon Collie or Machina I/II. Can't believe they never recorded a studio version of it.

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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

2 new tracks, Anno Satana and Birch Grove. Rather bland and unmemorable-- synthy, atmospheric instrumentals are a drop in the sea for these tracks that I can't really even tell them apart. In Ashes still seems incomprehensibly strange for the sake of being strange.

Cyr continues to be the highlight so far for actually having a solid, catchy hook to it.

I hate to say it, but after listening to the new tracks so far again, but... SAOSB was better-- despite how unpolished and rushed the album felt, the songs were far more memorable and heterogeneous.

Obviously this is a double album and we haven't heard half of it yet, but if it's a double album of songs that all sound like these, I'm suddenly not so optimistic for it.

Framboise fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Oct 9, 2020

Noise Machine
Dec 3, 2005

Today is a good day to save.



informing the thread I am extremely back on my Zwan bullshit

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


By that do you mean about how Zwan was really good? Because Zwan was really good.

Noise Machine
Dec 3, 2005

Today is a good day to save.



Baron von Eevl posted:

By that do you mean about how Zwan was really good? Because Zwan was really good.

Yeah, like, going back and listening to all the live shows and bootlegs I can find and just wishing we got way more music. Obviously if we haven't gotten the Machina boxset, I don't have a prayer for the Zwan re-issue...

It's a real goddamn shame Billy clearly hated being on stage with them towards the end, because the live arrangements of Mary Star Of The Sea from June 2003 are immaculate.

That fact I like Zwan actually got me an audition in a band as a bass player. I'm still in that band 15 years (...and half my life) later.

BeastOfExmoor
Aug 19, 2003

I will be gone, but not forever.


One of my great musical ambitions is to finally listen to all this Zwan material that people in this thread love and hope it clicks with me. I have the acoustic show from France and a bootleg called "Going to Riverview" which appears to have almost everything. Assuming I ever find myself not sitting in a house full of screaming children and can listen to music, will those be a good starting point?

Noise Machine
Dec 3, 2005

Today is a good day to save.



BeastOfExmoor posted:

One of my great musical ambitions is to finally listen to all this Zwan material that people in this thread love and hope it clicks with me. I have the acoustic show from France and a bootleg called "Going to Riverview" which appears to have almost everything. Assuming I ever find myself not sitting in a house full of screaming children and can listen to music, will those be a good starting point?

Taking a look at that bootleg, that's pretty comprehensive! Unfortunately looks like all the links I can find are dead.

I think it might be worth it to seek out some full gig bootlegs to get a real feel for how those songs sounded live against the MSOTS mixes. The more I listen to those...did Billy just mix Pajo out? I can pick out Matt's parts easily, but Pajo's only pop up for texture occasionally when they're integral to the tune (See the intro for MSOTS when he's playing that odd-meter guitar part)

Start with the Glass House bootlegs from 2001, those are the first gigs but there's a lot of great material. I'm not actually a huge fan of the "Djali Zwan" acoustic gigs, but I think that might be because there's a ton of chatter in the boots out there.

The gig from "The Blue Note" in 2002 I think is the first 5 person lineup gig and it was a warmup, that's a really good one too. Some of the songs from MSOTS there and it's interesting to hear them more or less done, but there's a couple that are played like, 3 or 4 times and never played again, ever (like To Wonder, To Suffer)

There was a bootleg called "Live From The Hideout" that was on the official Zwan site for a little bit which was Billy, Matt and David basically doing open mic nights there, that's worth tracking down again for some never released Billy stuff, I especially liked "Consumed", "Diamonds" (which if you pay close attention to, you'll notice the he took the guitar part from the bridge in To Wonder, To Suffer and used it in that song's bridge...) and it's worth it just to hear the version of "A New Poetry" with just a pump organ, but I see most of those tracks are on that bootleg.

There's a lot of video out there from the European summer festivals in 2003 right before they broke up. Those are kinda the same mostly set wise, but it's really funny to see this dichotomy of Billy clearly not having a good time (one of the ones I saw had some bickering between Billy and Matt being picked up in the mics over...something, I think an iffy backing vocal) but having this incredibly tight band performing two 10+ minute epics in the middle of a 50 minute festival slot.

A Big... Dog
Mar 25, 2013

HELLO DAD


Chrysanthemum should've been recorded. Still a good song.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


Noise Machine posted:

I think it might be worth it to seek out some full gig bootlegs to get a real feel for how those songs sounded live against the MSOTS mixes. The more I listen to those...did Billy just mix Pajo out? I can pick out Matt's parts easily, but Pajo's only pop up for texture occasionally when they're integral to the tune (See the intro for MSOTS when he's playing that odd-meter guitar part)

Nah, I can really pick out Pajo's noodling, like the intro to Ride A Black Swan. I always think his stuff sounds like something someone did on a sequencer.

A Big... Dog posted:

Chrysanthemum should've been recorded. Still a good song.

Helllllllllllllllllllllll yeah

Noise Machine
Dec 3, 2005

Today is a good day to save.



Baron von Eevl posted:

Nah, I can really pick out Pajo's noodling, like the intro to Ride A Black Swan. I always think his stuff sounds like something someone did on a sequencer.


Helllllllllllllllllllllll yeah

Just realized I don't have a lossless copy of the album, let me change that and relisten on some good headphones

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Everyone always says how Zwan's live shows were phenomenal, but what if you didn't give one single poo poo about the album? I didn't care for any of those songs at all, that I can remember. Maybe I have to relisten, but I can't imagine how acoustic versions of those would wow me.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


I like most of the songs on the first half of MSotS, but I really think it comes into its own in the back half. Lyric and Honestly are good but I'd rather listen to Jesus I/MSotS, Ride A Black Swan, Baby Let's Rock, Yeah, or Of A Broken Heart over them. El Sol's pretty dece too actually.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Jay-Z's The Black Album mashed up with various SP songs.

polyester concept
Mar 29, 2017



announcement video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcQj4TsaDO0

highlights:

there is going to be yet another new album soon (after cyr) that's a continuation of the story behind the mellon collie and machina concepts
machina remaster is currently being mixed
there is going to be a mellon collie themed tour

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


polyester concept posted:

announcement video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcQj4TsaDO0

highlights:

there is going to be yet another new album soon (after cyr) that's a continuation of the story behind the mellon collie and machina concepts
machina remaster is currently being mixed
there is going to be a mellon collie themed tour

There was a concept behind MCIS?

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

something something zero something something glass something something saving rock or some weird lame plot

I'm sure the story is rich and epic in Billy's eyes but to me it just comes across as corny as hell to me

Noise Machine
Dec 3, 2005

Today is a good day to save.



How is everyone not freaking out that the new repackage Machine album (again, not the box set, just the ALBUM) is 55 SONGS??!?

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



polyester concept posted:

there is going to be a mellon collie themed tour

Not gonna lie, the idea of hearing “Thru the Eyes of Ruby” again live and hell maybe even the mythical “Jellybelly” sounds pretty loving awesome. Sign me the gently caress up for some “Bodies” too. For all arguable bloat, I still love that silly album.

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

I would already play good money to see an MCIS tour, but I do want to hear Here Is No Why live.

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Framboise posted:

I would already play good money to see an MCIS tour, but I do want to hear Here Is No Why live.

That song kills. Why the hate?

Would you take a "Tales of a Scorched Earth"?

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


hatelull posted:

That song kills. Why the hate?

Would you take a "Tales of a Scorched Earth"?

Who's hating? Reread the post you quoted.

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Yikes. More coffee for me. No idea why my brain dropped a big NOT into that sentence. I sincerely apologize for my gaffe.

Honestly, I'm not sure if there's anything off of MCIS I would not want to hear live ... maybe "Cupid de Locke" but he could probably work a stripped down acoustic of that and I'd be happy.

I wonder if MCIS Tour translates to doing the whole album every night, or if they just rotate the setlist heavy from that album and b-sides from the time. Getting a "Set the Ray to Jerry", or "Ugly", any of the covers, or "God" would be pretty groovy.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


Noise Machine posted:

How is everyone not freaking out that the new repackage Machine album (again, not the box set, just the ALBUM) is 55 SONGS??!?

My guess is the reissue is a box set and that's what he meant, but I also think it's not going to be arranged or packaged like the previous remasters. I think this is going to be a ground-up remix and remaster but also a representation and resequencing. It's probably going to end up as a triple album.

Also what are the odds on either SAOSB3 or the "sequel to both MCIS and Machina" not ever being released. I'm putting at least one of those ideas into the "Day for Night" and the "rest of Teargarden" bin.

hatelull posted:

I wonder if MCIS Tour translates to doing the whole album every night, or if they just rotate the setlist heavy from that album and b-sides from the time. Getting a "Set the Ray to Jerry", or "Ugly", any of the covers, or "God" would be pretty groovy.

I think he said in the video that he doesn't want to just go out and play an album live because an album isn't arranged to be a live show, but he wants to go out and do a tour focused on that era of the band. If I had to guess it'd be mostly MCIS and a few TAFH songs, with a few of the big earlier songs as well.

edit:
Here's a fairly typical setlist from mid 1996:

Where Boys Fear to Tread
Zero
gently caress You
To Forgive
Tonight, Tonight
Today
Thru the Eyes of Ruby
By Starlight
Disarm
Bullet with Butterfly Wings
Cherub Rock
Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
> Beautiful (one verse only) (tease)
> Rocket (tease)

Encore 1:
1979
In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida [Iron Butterfly] (tease)
X.Y.U.

Encore 2:
Mayonaise

Encore 3:
Bodies
Silverfuck
> Space Jam (tease)

Baron von Eevl fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Oct 23, 2020

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Baron von Eevl posted:

crazy set list ...

Oh wow. I don't think I saw any of those shows. The only MCIS era stuff I was able to see were the post-Melvoin OD/Buh-Bye Jimmy arena shows with Garbage. Some one offs after that (a HORDE fest date?) but the set lists were typical fare. Those were way more predictable in terms of set list, although at a Dallas show we got a pretty scorching "Airplane Flys High ..." that was pretty drat spectacular.

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

hatelull posted:

Yikes. More coffee for me. No idea why my brain dropped a big NOT into that sentence. I sincerely apologize for my gaffe.

Honestly, I'm not sure if there's anything off of MCIS I would not want to hear live ... maybe "Cupid de Locke" but he could probably work a stripped down acoustic of that and I'd be happy.

I wonder if MCIS Tour translates to doing the whole album every night, or if they just rotate the setlist heavy from that album and b-sides from the time. Getting a "Set the Ray to Jerry", or "Ugly", any of the covers, or "God" would be pretty groovy.

Yeah I was about to say! Here Is No Why is easily a top 10 song for me-- it was probably the first non-single I heard that really made me love the Pumpkins when I was getting into them a few years back. Easily one of my favorites on MCIS.

(And yes, I would absolutely take Scorched Earth. Let's hear Modern Billy scream that poo poo out.)

A Big... Dog
Mar 25, 2013

HELLO DAD


God drat, Here Is No Why is so good.

SUNKOS
Jun 4, 2016



Noise Machine posted:

How is everyone not freaking out that the new repackage Machine album (again, not the box set, just the ALBUM) is 55 SONGS??!?

I'm freaking out and excited as hell. I have a feeling there might just be a disc of alternate versions that aren't much to get excited about but just getting to hear properly mixed Machina II will be amazing. Anything extra is Christmas as far as I'm concerned, and if there's songs that are from those sessions but unreleased and of similar quality it's going to be incredible.

Final Machina album (and however many discs it is) will probably become my favorite Pumpkins record when all is said and done, unless they really screw with the mixing. I love the wall of sound the original album has but I know a lot of people hated it, so I'm worried they might tamper with it and songs possibly get stripped back.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


The thing I'm most looking forward to with nuMachina is being able to hear the drums, because something terrible happened in the final mix/master that completely blew everything out and the drums disappeared.

Borrowed Ladder
May 4, 2007

monarch of the sleeping marches

A Big... Dog posted:

God drat, Here Is No Why is so good.

The guitar solo after "sitting still was never enough" is the absolute number one best solo of all time imho

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Baron von Eevl posted:

The thing I'm most looking forward to with nuMachina is being able to hear the drums, because something terrible happened in the final mix/master that completely blew everything out and the drums disappeared.

I don't recall ever hearing an issue with the drums. Any particular track?

Borrowed Ladder posted:

The guitar solo after "sitting still was never enough" is the absolute number one best solo of all time imho

I absolutely love the chord work right before and during "and in your sad machines"

Did Billy ever have a drug problem? I've always assumed that gently caress You (An Ode to No One) was about a relationship with an ex, but listening to it today, it dawned on me that maybe "scratched my face with anvil hands, coil my tongue around a bumblebee mouth", "I don't need your love to disconnect" and the literal title stating it's to no one might be him screaming at a past addiction.

Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Oct 25, 2020

Cemetry Gator
Apr 3, 2007

Do you find something comical about my appearance when I'm driving my automobile?


As far as I know, no. But his family apparently had a lot of drug problems when he was growing up.

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

I could swear I read somewhere that he did acid? Something about the "open your eyes to these mustard lies" being something he heard when tripping so he put it in Rhinoceros or something.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Framboise posted:

I could swear I read somewhere that he did acid? Something about the "open your eyes to these mustard lies" being something he heard when tripping so he put it in Rhinoceros or something.

Mustard lies? Wow, I always thought it was "to these must I lie".

Noise Machine
Dec 3, 2005

Today is a good day to save.



Billy had that blog about 15 years ago and made some allusions to dabbling in stuff. The band definitely took acid and other psychedelics in the early days, Billy made reference to taking downers or mushrooms when making Adore to unwind and I believe he also said he was taking a lot of ecstacy to cope with a tour, but I can't remember if it was the MCIS tour or the Adore tour.

Seaniqua
Mar 12, 2004

UNDEAD

GO BIG DEAD RED


Baron von Eevl posted:

Also what are the odds on either SAOSB3 or the "sequel to both MCIS and Machina" not ever being released. I'm putting at least one of those ideas into the "Day for Night" and the "rest of Teargarden" bin.

50/50 or worse. This is such a weird thing that certain musicians do, announcing another album either right before or right after their latest album is released. It always makes me feel like they're anticipating some backlash.

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Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


Billy did a ton of acid in the early days, especially Gish. Some time after Gish he apparently had a thing where his arm twitched uncontrollably for a long time and he basically swore off drugs after that.

Then of course during the Adore era he did tons of E which explains the whole sound of that album.

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