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hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



To hosed to swear that I was there ... \m/

That's probably my favorite track off that album. Honestly think I prefer it as the album ender over "Blue Skies Bring Tears" ....

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Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


I was a bad Machina fan. I was in high school, totally expecting a return to MCIS, and was put off by not getting exactly that, especially having previously expected that with Adore (yes, I know now this was actually my fault). So I listened to a few tracks and kind of didn't bother with it for a couple years.

Then around 2003, I saw a tribute video to the band (can't remember the site, maybe it was via Limewire or some poo poo) which was set to "This Time". Holy poo poo, where had THIS song been?! Oh.... On the album I didn't give enough time to.

I think the only track I don't enjoy whatsoever from Machina now is "Try, Try, Try". It just doesn't do anything for me.

Meanwhile, I now absolutely love Machina and Machina II. That whole album was my soundtrack for when I first moved out and lived on my own.

SUNKOS
Jun 4, 2016



I remember getting Machina for my birthday along with 'The Fragile' by Nine Inch Nails and it was amazing

polyester concept
Mar 29, 2017



Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I was a bad Machina fan

same deal here. 2000 was peak nu-metal in highschool for me. i wanted it to kick rear end but was shelved for a while.

polyester concept
Mar 29, 2017



Now that the band has been "reunited" longer than the original lineup even existed, is it wrong that there are post reunion eras that I wish they'd go back to? There was a brief time after Zeitgeist where it seemed like they were experimenting with more garage/psych sounds and I was really stoked. Superchrist, As Rome Burns, Gossamer were all great and I was excited for new pumpkins music again. But then Teargarden happened

I wish I could find this in higher quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CUAu08RmmA

polyester concept fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Oct 26, 2020

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Anyone else think that Here is No Why might be about Kurt?

SUNKOS
Jun 4, 2016



Probably is. Courtney leaving him for Kurt followed by Nirvana's explosion and Billy's ego compelling him to "officially" end the grunge era with MCIS, it figures he'd be bitter/jealous no matter how much he respected Kurt. People thought he still wasn't over it given the lyrics to Heavy Metal Machine when Machina released.

Borrowed Ladder
May 4, 2007

monarch of the sleeping marches

I loved Machina when it came out, but only because i was not the hugest fan of Adore. The only song that really hit me was Appels & Oranjes, and then later Czarina and Once in a While. Machina was like a return to "rock", and i was instantly hooked on The Imploding Voice. Then Machina II totally blew me away, it's so good but sounds not that great, so I've been dying for this reissue.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


I swear to god if Slow Dawn isn't on the reissue I'm going to loving riot.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Borrowed Ladder posted:

I loved Machina when it came out, but only because i was not the hugest fan of Adore. The only song that really hit me was Appels & Oranjes, and then later Czarina and Once in a While. Machina was like a return to "rock", and i was instantly hooked on The Imploding Voice. Then Machina II totally blew me away, it's so good but sounds not that great, so I've been dying for this reissue.

I know that Real Love is intentionally messy, but are their any other tracks like that?

Also, the drum intro from Lucky 13 (which looped on their DVD) is stuck in my head forever.

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Popping in apropos of nothing to say that the live version of "Blank Page" on the exhaustive Adore re-issue/expansion is sublime. Is that Mike Garson on piano? It sounds like him, and I know he played on that tour.

I saw the Machina live tour, and remember being stoked about it because it was the first time I got to see Chamberlain play with them live. I missed the infamous SD era Houston show where Billy cut it short by being Billy I think he even referenced it at the Machina show before they played "Mayonaise", and by the time I could see them play Texas again Melvoin had checked out and Jimmy got the boot.

I wonder what they live recordings from this era sounds like ... I don't remember much about that show.

hatelull fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Oct 29, 2020

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


hatelull posted:

Popping in apropos of nothing to say that the live version of "Blank Page" on the exhaustive Adore re-issue/expansion is sublime. Is that Mike Garson on piano? It sounds like him, and I know he played on that tour.

I saw the Machina live tour, and remember being stoked about it because it was the first time I got to see Chamberlain play with them live. I missed the infamous SD era Houston show where Billy cut it short by being Billy I think he even referenced it at the Machina show before they played "Mayonaise", and by the time I could see them play Texas again Melvoin had checked out and Jimmy got the boot.

I wonder what they live recordings from this era sounds like ... I don't remember much about that show.

What happened at the Houston show?

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Rupert Buttermilk posted:

What happened at the Houston show?

The story goes that 4-5 songs in, someone threw a shoe at the band (Darcy maybe?). It was the early 90's. Flying shoes were a thing (you can even see Farrell ranting about a Birkenstock that got tossed on the stage on one of their old VHS tapes). Anyway, Corgan says "if anyone tosses another shoe, we're out" ... so of COURSE Houston gonna Houston.

Here's an "I was there" blurb from one of our local rags ...

https://www.houstonpress.com/music/...oodwill-6504558

e: The .MP3 link in that article which is footage of him talking about the incident at the show I was at is dead, but gently caress me that was 20 years ago and I now feel so very old.

hatelull fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Oct 29, 2020

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


hatelull posted:

The story goes that 4-5 songs in, someone threw a shoe at the band (Darcy maybe?). It was the early 90's. Flying shoes were a thing (you can even see Farrell ranting about a Birkenstock that got tossed on the stage on one of their old VHS tapes). Anyway, Corgan says "if anyone tosses another shoe, we're out" ... so of COURSE Houston gonna Houston.

Here's an "I was there" blurb from one of our local rags ...

https://www.houstonpress.com/music/...oodwill-6504558

e: The .MP3 link in that article which is footage of him talking about the incident at the show I was at is dead, but gently caress me that was 20 years ago and I now feel so very old.

Holy poo poo, THAT'S what the thing from Kettle Whistle was from?

"There's that same rear end in a top hat again. I hoped it wouldn't come to this. I mean the guy threw a birkenstock... This guy's a REAL moron... He doesn't even understand FASHION..."

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Holy poo poo, THAT'S what the thing from Kettle Whistle was from?

"There's that same rear end in a top hat again. I hoped it wouldn't come to this. I mean the guy threw a birkenstock... This guy's a REAL moron... He doesn't even understand FASHION..."

I was slightly mistaken. The VHS thing was Soul Kiss which was '89 and released during the Nothing's Shocking time frame. I think it had the unedited video for "Mountain Song" and a lot of baked band members. That thing from Kettle Whistle appears at the end of the video for "Ain't No Right"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQRAvSSMs70

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


Two new songs, it bothers me an unreasonable amount that Billy pronounces Samhain "sam hane." I kind of hate the drum sound on Wyttch but hey it's a rock track and not more new wave so if you weren't feeling the New Order sound there's something different.

Wyttch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NcVNOWjv1E
Ramona: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rOr6yTMCJI

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.




Lipstick Apathy

Wyttch is bleeding Black Sabbath vibes combined with the Cyr synth. Probably the best track on this album-- sonically, at least-- so far. If there are more tracks like this then I'll feel better dropping $60 on that light pink marble LP preorder. <_<

Ramona is pretty aight. Decent chill song.

Borrowed Ladder
May 4, 2007

monarch of the sleeping marches

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I know that Real Love is intentionally messy, but are their any other tracks like that?

Also, the drum intro from Lucky 13 (which looped on their DVD) is stuck in my head forever.

I've always thought the whole album just sounds fuzzy, especially Real Love but also Go, White Spider, Home. Though now that I'm thinking about it, the version I've been listening to was downloaded from somewhere on the internet in 2000, and I don't think I ever looked for a higher quality version (if one exists).

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


I haven't listened to much of any of the new stuff yet but does anyone else miss the more subtle songs? I don't even mean his vocals; I'm more referring to the general song feeling. For a band that really helped mainstream the quiet/loud/quiet dynamic (at least after the Pixies did it), I feel like every single track, even quieter ones, are still way more in your face than quiet ones from years ago.

I love Machina, but I feel like this all started then. You would never find another track like Spaceboy, Soothe, or Set the Ray to Jerry on the kind of albums being written now. I'm glad that he and they evolve, but even in changing up the style, those dynamics seem to be completely lost.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


Borrowed Ladder posted:

I've always thought the whole album just sounds fuzzy, especially Real Love but also Go, White Spider, Home. Though now that I'm thinking about it, the version I've been listening to was downloaded from somewhere on the internet in 2000, and I don't think I ever looked for a higher quality version (if one exists).

In all fairness, all but 25 copies of the album were downloaded from somewhere on the internet in the 2000s.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


That kind of fuzz wasn't from lower digital quality. Real Love is definitely on purpose, and I think the rest are either the same, to varying degress, or they just weren't mixed properly yet. There's clipping all over the place, but it's not like the album was mixed by Butch Vig or Flood.

SUNKOS
Jun 4, 2016



Speaking of, I just heard Saturnine on Judas 0 (the electronic-y version) and it's much more polished than the drone-y Machina II version called Satur9 but I hope we get the latter on the Machina reissue because the Judas 0 version is so bad in comparison I love the way Corgan sings the Machina II version as well, sounds like he has some kind of effect on his voice that's subtle but works really well with the drone.

Also had no idea that Soot and Stars was a Machina song but it would fit perfectly and I hope that it makes it into this special version they're putting together.

Ratios and Tendency
Apr 23, 2010

MURALI



Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I haven't listened to much of any of the new stuff yet but does anyone else miss the more subtle songs? I don't even mean his vocals; I'm more referring to the general song feeling. For a band that really helped mainstream the quiet/loud/quiet dynamic (at least after the Pixies did it), I feel like every single track, even quieter ones, are still way more in your face than quiet ones from years ago.

I love Machina, but I feel like this all started then. You would never find another track like Spaceboy, Soothe, or Set the Ray to Jerry on the kind of albums being written now. I'm glad that he and they evolve, but even in changing up the style, those dynamics seem to be completely lost.

Billy is 20 years removed from being good or relevant.

Molestationary Store
May 21, 2007



Ratios and Tendency posted:

Billy is 20 years removed from being good or relevant.

The amount of activity this thread has would suggest otherwise.

polyester concept
Mar 29, 2017



it blows my mind to see the insane fans in the youtube comments declaring literally every new release as his best work yet. who are these people.

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.




Lipstick Apathy

Some people approach music like a bag of potato chips or a bucket of popcorn. As long as it's not offensive to their ears, they'll be fine with it and love new things simply because it's a new "flavor", if you'll accept the analogy.

Others approach music and pick it apart and overanalyze it to see what they like about it and what they don't like about it, both within a vacuum and in context of the artist's history with their music.


Nothing from Cyr is genuinely bad-- nor has anything from Zeitgeist on been bad. Every album from the Pumpkins post-2000 has something worth listening to. Whether or not you feel it matches up to the earlier material is simply up to taste-- and to return to my food analogy from earlier, the earlier material had a lot more passion and complexity behind it that the modern stuff just doesn't have. Today's Pumpkins are the La Croix of Pumpkins-- and I say that affectionately as I loving love La Croix. What people love of The Smashing Pumpkins is kind of just a ghost of what it used to be and just isn't now-- and each album doesn't die a death of a thousand cuts-- but still has about 900 of them holding them back-- be it the mixing, the flowery lyrics that just somehow still come across as bland and drawn out of a hat, the drum machines, the lack of guitars-- just a bunch of stuff that made people love them is just kinda not there anymore.

But none of it is objectively bad. I'm gonna listen to Cyr when my LP gets here and give it an honest try just as I did with SAOSB, and in all likelihood I'm not going to like it as much as I like, say, Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie (hell, I'm even going to be approaching the announced Mellon Collie sequel with the same regard). But that's also okay-- it's really just a matter of my (and a whole lot of other peoples') taste not matching up. It's like when something you like gets replaced with a "new and improved!" formula that's like, you know what they were going for and what the thing was meant to be, but it's just off in so many ways at the same time.



tl;dr: I don't really understand the people who are praising the new Pumpkins as their best work ever either and I don't agree with them, but tastes are weird.

tl;dr2: Some people are just easy to satisfy and goons in general are not those people.

SUNKOS
Jun 4, 2016



My biggest issue with the new Pumpkins is mainly Billy's voice. I think his vocals were the best they've ever been on Machina and when Zeitgeist released? Doomsday Clock started and musically it was great, like they were picking up right where they left off and it was a good start to the album. Then Billy came in and he wasn't singing any more, he was talking instead, and he's just talked through every song since (that I've heard, I don't keep up with new stuff any more).

It's weird because imo he has (had?) a really great singing voice but now he just talks and it's one of those things that I can't not notice now that I have. Maybe it's just an age thing? The new guitarist they have is fantastic though. I saw a live performance of The Beginning is the End is the Beginning and his lead work and flourishes were very Billy-like and elevated the song.

CherryCola
Apr 15, 2002

'ahtaj alshifa


god loving dammit. I pre-ordered this stupid goddamn album...

and the NON singles are...ACTUALLY NOT BAD

But I swear to god this backup singer sounds so bad and everything would be a million times better if she went away.,

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010


This album is shaping up to be pretty trash and I love it. Can't wait to buy it when it's out.

browsers castle
Dec 27, 2011


Zeitgeist 2?

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.




Lipstick Apathy


More like Adore 2 meets Depeche Mode meets Billy's Solo Career

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010


I think it's got a synthwave whatever thing going on, but it's being done so poorly.

Confessions, Colour of Love and Cyr are good songs to me. But you release 8 tracks as promos and most are meh? Not a good sign. And the fact that they're mediocre is the best part. If they were awful I could justify it as someone's possible jam. Instead it's all just boring.

A lot of the tracks have the same problems. Overused backup singers, Billy's lyrics have gone from flowery to straight up ridiculous AND repetitive at the same time. No song really feels like it moves anyway, just a funky beat for the whole thing with maybe a drop out. Underused members. This is all poo poo that could have been fixed.

I checked out of expecting good music from the Pumpkins after Oceania. I'm a weirdo who likes Zeitgeist even, cause I honestly think the majority of songs on it are bangers and I can vibe with the paranoid feel. Oceania I love.

Teargarden was mediocre, Monuments was downright awful, Shiny and the Weather Balloons of Silver Knights was boring bar a few tracks. I have no great expectations. And Billy is a nut.

And that's why I will probably buy the album. Following Billy is like a soap opera. I hate celebrity drama but I loving love the insane poo poo that he comes up with and the mental gymnastics to justify why he's right and everyone is wrong and doesn't understand him.

Billy is 'my stories'.

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.




Lipstick Apathy

syntaxfunction posted:

I think it's got a synthwave whatever thing going on, but it's being done so poorly.

Confessions, Colour of Love and Cyr are good songs to me. But you release 8 tracks as promos and most are meh? Not a good sign. And the fact that they're mediocre is the best part. If they were awful I could justify it as someone's possible jam. Instead it's all just boring.

A lot of the tracks have the same problems. Overused backup singers, Billy's lyrics have gone from flowery to straight up ridiculous AND repetitive at the same time. No song really feels like it moves anyway, just a funky beat for the whole thing with maybe a drop out. Underused members. This is all poo poo that could have been fixed.

I checked out of expecting good music from the Pumpkins after Oceania. I'm a weirdo who likes Zeitgeist even, cause I honestly think the majority of songs on it are bangers and I can vibe with the paranoid feel. Oceania I love.

Teargarden was mediocre, Monuments was downright awful, Shiny and the Weather Balloons of Silver Knights was boring bar a few tracks. I have no great expectations. And Billy is a nut.

And that's why I will probably buy the album. Following Billy is like a soap opera. I hate celebrity drama but I loving love the insane poo poo that he comes up with and the mental gymnastics to justify why he's right and everyone is wrong and doesn't understand him.

Billy is 'my stories'.

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polyester concept
Mar 29, 2017



the videos are so cringey

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