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Pizza Club
Aug 28, 2006

President Jerk


Baron von Eevl posted:

Yeah Jeff has been playing in the band longer than James.

Not quite

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Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


When were Jeff's first shows with the band, 2006? It's been 13 years continuously. James' first run was what, 89-00? I guess it depends when you say James "came back" but Jeff's run has certainly been longer than James' initial run.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you


https://youtu.be/azhgpelu0vY

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...



I don't even have a preview enabled on mobile, and I already knew what this was. It was sent to me today on twitter by a couple people who know I love the Pumpkins. Weird that it's going viral almost a year after it was posted.

Ratios and Tendency
Apr 23, 2010

MURALI



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDF08fr7Efo

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you


Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


So, I'm relistening to Oceania, and does anyone else feel like the drums, while played excellently (like, holy poo poo, Mike ) didn't have the punch that they should have? They come across as almost like background noise.

I've recorded and mixed music in a studio a few times, though nothing at the level of someone like SP, and I have to wonder... what went on with the mixing that a) put Corgan's vocals so much in front, and b) that did this to the drums?

I saw that Bob Ludwig mastered it and.... That guy is legendary, so I'm really surprised with this. I do love the guitars, though.

On the flipside (just happen to be listening to this album today), Jane's Addiction's "Strays" is one of my favourite albums, half for the content, half for the production. Holy poo poo, that album sounds great, especially for a band that hadn't released a studio album in, what, over a decade at that point? Excellent work there.

Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Jun 20, 2019

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Yam Slacker

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I saw that Bob Ludwig mastered it and.... That guy is legendary, so I'm really surprised with this. I do love the guitars, though.
When asked about the loving awful sound of Metallica's Death Magnetic, masterer Ted Janson responded, "It was brickwalled when I got it."

quote:

I have to wonder... what went on with the mixing that a) put Corgan's vocals so much in front, and b) that did this to the drums?
I suspect part of the answer to that is contained in your question.

Thanks for the reminder about Strays. I've been slightly craving JA lately and that's a good place to revisit.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


Yeah, a bad mix isn't going to get fixed in the mastering phase. That said I kind of like Oceania? Biggest issue is probably with the drums like you said. They did something where you can hear tons of stick attack on everything, it's like a constant barrage of clicks. I don't know if it's a micing thing like small diaphragm condensers were right on the heads or they used triggers and mixed that in, or if it was like a trick with the compressors or what, but there's a bit of that on the new album too (gently caress you I'm not looking up the title).

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Baron von Eevl posted:

, but there's a bit of that on the new album too (gently caress you I'm not looking up the title).

Haha, I actually thought to myself "What, 'Monuments...'?" and then realized that no, that isn't actually the latest album.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town




Inconsistent/bad mixing has definitely been the only real issue with the last few albums.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


I think I might've posted this before, but I think this might be my favourite Pumpkins track of all-time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTGcCr8L_t4

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I think I might've posted this before, but I think this might be my favourite Pumpkins track of all-time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTGcCr8L_t4

"Eleanor, you've lost me\In a haze of wine and cocaine"

Was always my favorite part about that song …

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


hatelull posted:

"Eleanor, you've lost me\In a haze of wine and cocaine"

Was always my favorite part about that song …

The chord change up during the pre-chorus ("High crimes and misdemeanors") is when it gives me chills.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Newish content!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olmVJZBxesM

Ok, so, they're touring again for the same album?

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

It's kind of weird. This tour has a lot more deep cuts on the setlist. Last year felt less like a "we're touring to promote our new album" and more like a "we're touring to promote our reunion" because there was only one track from Shiny on the entire setlist last year and the rest were all of the singles from Gish to Machina.

Neither one seems to be promoting Shiny Vol. 1 itself.

Billy's really active on instagram and says the next installment of Shiny is meant to be a double album with over 20 tracks iirc. He's also said that he's leaning more toward older production styles (hopefully this means they're firing Rick Rubin), and also recently said he's open to working with Butch Vig again.

But this is all Billy so take it with a sea's worth of salt.


There was also talk about a deluxe edition of Machina/Machina II in the works a while back but I think that may be on the backburner to new content.

Also, they could have picked a WAY better track on Colbert to promote Shiny and their tour. Play Marchin' On or Silvery Sometimes or anything other than the most boring track on the album please.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


I'm assuming yes, but was there a beef with Butch? If so, what was it?

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

I don't know of any beef. Billy just runs a Q&A on his Instagram (he's even answered me before) and someone asked if he'd work with Butch again and he said yes.

Proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashingPu..._heart_wont_be/

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


BSBT is apparently on the new tour's setlist, otherwise it looks fairly similar to what they were playing in Europe a few months back. Honestly I think I like what they've been doing with Knights of Malta, at least versus the album version.

The interesting thing to me is that Tiberius and Superchrist are on there. I don't really like either song but it means James is starting to be okay with post-Machina songs.

My Twitter Account
Feb 4, 2003



Framboise posted:

There was also talk about a deluxe edition of Machina/Machina II in the works a while back but I think that may be on the backburner to new content.
There’s a lot of stuff on the back burner to new content. The Machina resequence/remaster/reissue was supposed to be out by Christmas 2015, followed by a boxed set of remastered 1988/89 demos.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


I just want a studio version of Alabaster.

I can't even type or read that name without hearing Hank Hill yell it.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


My Twitter Account posted:

There’s a lot of stuff on the back burner to new content. The Machina resequence/remaster/reissue was supposed to be out by Christmas 2015, followed by a boxed set of remastered 1988/89 demos.

Billy was working on the Machina remaster again like 6 months ago, going so far as to spend a couple weeks posting about it, hunting down old masters and getting Jimmy to record drums for White Spider. Rumor is they're aiming to get it out for the 20th anniversary on Feb 29, 2020.

polyester concept
Mar 29, 2017



gently caress I’m old

Borrowed Ladder
May 4, 2007

monarch of the sleeping marches

I'm dying for nice clean versions of Real Love and Home

Space Cadet
Jun 1, 2000

Destruction, hence, like creation, is one of Nature's mandates.


So Billy is heading out on a solo tour next month, limited dates and locations but apparently he is pulling songs from his whole catalogue. In one show you could get a smattering of tracks from the following: The Smashing Pumpkins, Zwan, The Future Embrace, Smashing pumpkins, and his WPC album. I'll give him credit, it has the potential to be a super weird show depending on the tracks he pulls out.

ketchup vs catsup
Nov 30, 2006



Drive-by posting to this thread that I unironically and wholeheartedly believe that “Mayonnaise” is the greatest song in the history of music and it is unlikely that any artist will ever conceive of something 10% as brilliant.

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

ketchup vs catsup posted:

Drive-by posting to this thread that I unironically and wholeheartedly believe that “Mayonnaise” is the greatest song in the history of music and it is unlikely that any artist will ever conceive of something 10% as brilliant.

It's definitely in my top 5 favorite songs.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Anyone else really love 'Untitled'?

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

It amuses me to know that Untitled was supposed to be in Shrek or something but they ended up going with Smash Mouth or something.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Framboise posted:

It amuses me to know that Untitled was supposed to be in Shrek or something but they ended up going with Smash Mouth or something.

Wait, THAT was the Shrek song!?

What the hell? That wouldn't have worked at all.

ketchup vs catsup
Nov 30, 2006



In case you all were wondering, “Muzzle” is the third greatest song of all time.

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



ketchup vs catsup posted:

In case you all were wondering, “Muzzle” is the third greatest song of all time.

Only beaten by "Mayonaise" and "Soma"?

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

Hot take: Luna is also in my top 5 and like no one ever talks about that track

ketchup vs catsup
Nov 30, 2006



hatelull posted:

Only beaten by "Mayonaise" and "Soma"?

The top 5 songs of all time are:
"Mayonaise"
"Nightswimming" by REM
"Muzzle"
"Meet Me By the River's Edge" by The Gaslight Anthem
"Ode to my Family" by The Cranberries

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR


Space Cadet posted:

So Billy is heading out on a solo tour next month, limited dates and locations but apparently he is pulling songs from his whole catalogue. In one show you could get a smattering of tracks from the following: The Smashing Pumpkins, Zwan, The Future Embrace, Smashing pumpkins, and his WPC album. I'll give him credit, it has the potential to be a super weird show depending on the tracks he pulls out.

Last time he did one of these it was an acoustic set and I don't think there was any TFE material in there, and the only Zwan song was I believe Heartsong.

ketchup vs catsup posted:

Drive-by posting to this thread that I unironically and wholeheartedly believe that “Mayonnaise” is the greatest song in the history of music and it is unlikely that any artist will ever conceive of something 10% as brilliant.

You're not wrong, but I'm sure if said this to Billy he'd say something like "That is a highly offensive thing to say, but thank you."

Borrowed Ladder
May 4, 2007

monarch of the sleeping marches

I feel like Mayonaise won the big reddit Best Pumpkins song poll a few years ago, so it's a pretty popular take. I think for me I'd probably go Real Love. I would really love that Machine II remaster though because it sounds kind of. . .fuzzy?

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

Borrowed Ladder posted:

I feel like Mayonaise won the big reddit Best Pumpkins song poll a few years ago, so it's a pretty popular take. I think for me I'd probably go Real Love. I would really love that Machine II remaster though because it sounds kind of. . .fuzzy?

That's because what we have of Machina II is a rip from one of the very few vinyls made. Then again, Real Love was also put on the Rotten Apples Greatest Hits album and I don't think it's any different?

Speaking of Machina II, Let Me Give The World To You is a song that has been so forgotten it's criminal. I have a hard time deciding which version of it I like more though-- the Machina II version or the Adore outtake one. The Machina II version feels more "wall of sound" Pumpkins-y, but the Adore outtake one seems to fit the song better.

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010


Machina I/II are horrendously underrated. I genuinely think if they had nicer production people would've put them up with the big four (Gish, SD, MCIS, Adore). It's leagues better than anything they've put out recently, and are genuinely bangers in my opinion.

Billy, reissue when?

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.



Lipstick Apathy

Machina I is great and I rank it above Adore, actually. But that's also because I REALLY have to be in the mood for Adore's intense gloominess because the middle tracks of the album put me to sleep if I'm not in the mood.

I want to like Machina II more but it feels so unpolished and so unrefined that a lot of the tracks are hard to enjoy. Like, the Machina II version of Try, Try, Try would be great if it didn't have that awful WEE-OOO WEE-OOO, WEE-OOO WEE-OOO throughout the whole song. Some tracks are home runs though.

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polyester concept
Mar 29, 2017



I don't buy that Machina II sounds lovely because it's a vinyl rip. I have heard tons of vinyl rips of commercial albums taken on bottom of the barrel consumer turntables, and they sound "fine". It sounds lovely because Billy wanted it to sound that way.

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