Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«2 »
  • Post
  • Reply
bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


There are two other s30 engine swap threads right now but they are both SLACKING so here's another one, with a blasphemous twist: I will be removing a reasonably healthy, low mileage L28 and replacing it with this



This is the new Hyper9 from NetGain, a synchronous reluctance internal permanent magnet AC motor. That means it has the efficiency and regen braking perks of an AC motor, but with the torque benefits of a permanent magnet DC motor. It's rated at 100 kW (134 hp) peak and 173 lbs.ft of torque. That's slightly less power but more torque than the stock L28, but of course we get all that torque instantly at 0 RPM and all the way up to 3000 before it drops off. I don't need to be going 120 mph in a 40 year old sports car so I'm happy trading power for low end torque.

Here it is burning rubber in an old VW van that weighs about 500 lbs more than this car should be once complete (too bad instagram videos don't embed): https://www.instagram.com/p/BXzCQmChrBK/

The gas tank will be replaced with five of these in series:



Salvaged battery modules from totaled Teslas are becoming easier to come by these days, as Elon's robot death squad continues it's terrible march. They are still the heaviest (55 lbs each) and most expensive part of the build though. Also the most open ended, as I'll need to build a battery box and plumb up a cooling system to take advantage of the integrated cooling channels in the modules.

The initial goal is to make this a fun daily driver with ~100 miles of range. If I get stupid later, I could add a second battery box and motor for roughly double the power, torque, and range. Here's what I'm starting with:








This car was a godamn steal on craigslist about a month back (shout out to Lord of Garbegmen I think it was who helped me recognize what a deal it was). It's largely free of rust, in that the frame and floor pans are in good shape. As you can see in the last pic, it was sideswiped at some point and the passenger side fender, door, and quarter panel are hosed up. I'll get around to dealing with that eventually.

I have finally secured a suitable location to work on this project, and tomorrow the real work will begin. The goal tomorrow is to strip out all the ICE components that we don't need, including: radiator, exhaust, gas tank, and the engine. I'll be mating the electric motor to the stock transmission and using the rest of the existing drive train from that point back, because it's the easiest option to begin with. There is a Canadian company that already makes an adapter plate and coupler to mate this motor and transmission.

Incomplete to-do list:

-strip major unneeded ICE components
-remove dash, repair?
-replace instrumentation lights with LEDs, remove old oil/fuel etc gauges and replace with new battery/controller instrumentation. Also a big gauge that says AMPS and displays current flowing out of/in to batteries.
-fix turn signals or replace mechanism
-new head unit & speakers
-replace all exterior lights with LEDs
-new shifter bushings
-bang out the passenger door till it closes easily, or get a new one
-rebuild/clean door lock mechanisms
-strip off those ugly late 70's bumpers and replace with earlier versions if I can find them, maybe just go naked?
-replace all suspension bushings
-new front brake rotors/calipers/pads
-new wheel cylinders in the rear

-finish design of battery box, fabricate and install
-plumb battery cooling system (not actually necessary, according to EV West)
-install motor/adapter/coupler
-fab and install additional motor mount
-plumb motor controller cooling system (much smaller than battery cooling)
-figure out where to install all of these components and wire them as indicated:



I have never done a project car of any kind before, and my background is mechanical engineering not electrical anything, so this should be an adventure!

bawfuls fucked around with this message at Apr 19, 2018 around 23:09

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Larrymer
Jan 10, 2007



Should be fun to watch.

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.



Pillbug

I better go buy a 240Z before you guys swap all the motors out of them. This looks like a fun project, can't wait to see more.

Lord of Garbagemen
Jan 27, 2014

Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Whoa, please no S30 shaming. I just happened to post today about Z stuff......

If thats all you get for torque out of the motor, you should be fine with the long nose r200 in the rear. Its pretty well documented that the second torques goes over 200 that bad things happen and you see your rear wheels rolling down the road ahead of you.

Also your chassis strength should be ok for the given weight (depending on condition).

Waffle House
Oct 26, 2004

I have terrible opinions about Destiny the Video Game

HELL YEA

I was wondering when we’d get a Zzzap.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


Lord of Garbagemen posted:

Whoa, please no S30 shaming. I just happened to post today about Z stuff......

If thats all you get for torque out of the motor, you should be fine with the long nose r200 in the rear. Its pretty well documented that the second torques goes over 200 that bad things happen and you see your rear wheels rolling down the road ahead of you.

Also your chassis strength should be ok for the given weight (depending on condition).
Thanks, this is good to keep in mind for down the road when I get tempted to amp things up.

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007



Oh poo poo

BoostCreep
May 3, 2004

Might I ask where you keep your forced induction accessories?

Grimey Drawer

I will be following this. Looks awesome. I'm also increasingly getting interested in older Zs.

bolind
Jun 19, 2005



Noice!

Apart from Slung Blade's electric tractor, isn't this the first electric swap in AI?

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!

Hell yes, the future gentlemen.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


For sale:

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


engine hoist overkill

Waffle House
Oct 26, 2004

I have terrible opinions about Destiny the Video Game

My god, you have an actual garage. And like...electricity, a hoist, and maybe running water.

Are those walls INSULATED? I’m insanely jealous.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


It is the shop at my office. We are a small engineering R&D start up, but we don't have any need to use the shop space for the next 6 months, and my boss is as excited about this project as I am so he told me to just do it here.

Having a real shop space owns. Took us two and a half hours to get the engine out today.

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007



Why have I never thought of putting an I-beam and chain hoist over my loving lift. Genius.

Waffle House
Oct 26, 2004

I have terrible opinions about Destiny the Video Game

Adiabatic posted:

Why have I never thought of putting an I-beam and chain hoist over my loving lift. Genius.

Seriously, this setup is rad, I'm really excited to watch this unfold; this is something that I thought about when I picked my 1J, but nowwww....

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


If you look at the top of the uprights on that crane, you’ll notice each side has a one foot extension. We had to add those for the real work we used the crane for a couple years back because we couldn’t lift things high enough.

The whole crane and hoist assembly otherwise was purchased at Harbor Freight.

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007



I was wondering what those were for, and I am pleased with the answer given.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


This is definitely transmission fluid in the bell housing, so looks like I'll have to replace that seal.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


Look at all this spaaaaaaace



Also pulled the fugly bumpers off, car immediately looks better

bawfuls fucked around with this message at Apr 9, 2018 around 06:53

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.



Pillbug

Have you considered banging a 280ZX transmission into there? I think they're a little tougher.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


Seat Safety Switch posted:

Have you considered just banging a 280ZX transmission into there? I think they're a little tougher.
I haven't considered it yet. This is a 5 speed, which is less common to begin with. The transmission shouldn't be a weak point with only 170 ft.lbs of torque.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


Here's some phone clips of the engine removal. Hoist monkey is my buddy Rob who's spent a lot more time working on cars than I have. He had a Datsun truck at one point and built a 240sx for drifting. Maybe after this we'll build him an electric Datsun truck, and our other friend an electric 510 so we can all roll around as the eDatsun gang.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mflHkbtMzjo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRwYnVt6g5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxrlVI7wb18

Adiabatic posted:

Why have I never thought of putting an I-beam and chain hoist over my loving lift. Genius.
Not sure if it's clear but the whole crane setup is on wheels. Once the engine was up, we wheeled the whole thing away from the car and lowered it on to a pallet. If it was stuck to a lift that was bolted to the floor, you'd have to move the car out from under it, which isn't that hard either I suppose.

bawfuls fucked around with this message at Apr 9, 2018 around 06:25

bolind
Jun 19, 2005



bawfuls posted:

Not sure if it's clear but the whole crane setup is on wheels. Once the engine was up, we wheeled the whole thing away from the car and lowered it on to a pallet. If it was stuck to a lift that was bolted to the floor, you'd have to move the car out from under it, which isn't that hard either I suppose.

Yeah I was also fooled initially, thought it was a lift + I-beam + chain fall. I guess that could work, but it'd be a lot more static and you'd have to plan the fore/aft placement of the car carefully.

Forgive me if you've already said this, but how are things going to work transmission wise? Manual 5-speed and a clutch? What's the usable RPM range of the new electric motor?

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


bolind posted:

Yeah I was also fooled initially, thought it was a lift + I-beam + chain fall. I guess that could work, but it'd be a lot more static and you'd have to plan the fore/aft placement of the car carefully.

Forgive me if you've already said this, but how are things going to work transmission wise? Manual 5-speed and a clutch? What's the usable RPM range of the new electric motor?
The motor will be mated to the stock 5 speed with a fresh clutch yes. There’s a Canadian company that manufactures an adapter plate and coupler for this purpose. http://www.canev.com/a5109.php

They made it for the Warp9 motor from Netgain which was the most popular DC motor for conversions the past decade, but the Hyper9 shares the same bolt pattern and shaft dimensions so it *should* work.

Here’s the performance curves Netgain provides with this motor: http://www.go-ev.com/PDFs/HyPer_9_Graph.pdf

Torque falls off about 3500, power falls off about 6000, so there should be plenty of room to work with the existing transmission. Probably won’t use first gear for anything but burnouts.

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009

Ran when parked




This is so awesome. I've been daydreaming about this sort of thing for a while now, but the batteries are still so expensive. Even early leaf batteries seem to have dried up.

Leaf batteries seem to be around $125/rated kwh, Tesla modules close to $300/kwh.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


Starting to work through the existing electrical system and see what needs fixing/replacing and what else could be removed.

To start, the turn signals weren't working reliably so I took a look at the switch to investigate. When I opened it up, there was a lot of grease and grime on the contacts, so I wiped them down with a soft cloth and some isopropyl cause that's what I have on hand. This picture is after cleaning them off, both the three copper contacts in the red board on the right and the two in the housing on the left:





Left turn signal works, which is connecting the left most of those three to the center. Right signal (right contact to center) doesn't work. I verified it's an issue here at the switch by checking continuity with an ohmeter. The center contact is physically worn down.

There is also this spacer thing that gets sandwiched between the two, and it's worn down where the contacts rub over it.



Not sure what else to try aside from replacing the contacts (tedious, no idea if I can find the right parts), or the whole mechanism (feels like a waste). Probably need to remove it from the car and clean the whole thing up anyway.

bawfuls fucked around with this message at Apr 10, 2018 around 01:19

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.



Pillbug

Datsun seemed never to be able to make a good turn signal. At least by the time of the 280Z they were no longer making electromechanical turn signals, including this nightmare, the sequentials on the Bluebird SSS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChH--ndoofc

Does this motor come with its own controller? It's a little unclear from the diagram. There was a Geo Metro EV conversion here a few months ago that was selling for less than it would cost to buy the Zilla1k installed in it.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


Yes, it does come with a controller designed for it. There is supposed to be a fair amount of customization available in the controller settings as well.

I removed the center console and cleaned it up a bit, then wrestled with the dash for about an hour before giving up for the evening. I am pretty sure I got all the bolts out that hold the dash in, but it still feels like it's being held by something. I don't want to yank on it too hard and break poo poo. Might be a two person operation.

current status:







Removed the cowl too and it looks like there was no reason to. Whatever. You can also see my sophisticated transmission support system in this pic.

bawfuls fucked around with this message at Apr 10, 2018 around 04:30

bennyfactor
Nov 21, 2008


bawfuls posted:

Starting to work through the existing electrical system and see what needs fixing/replacing and what else could be removed.

To start, the turn signals weren't working reliably so I took a look at the switch to investigate. When I opened it up, there was a lot of grease and grime on the contacts, so I wiped them down with a soft cloth and some isopropyl cause that's what I have on hand. This picture is after cleaning them off, both the three copper contacts in the red board on the right and the two in the housing on the left:





Left turn signal works, which is connecting the left most of those three to the center. Right signal (right contact to center) doesn't work. I verified it's an issue here at the switch by checking continuity with an ohmeter. The center contact is physically worn down.

There is also this spacer thing that gets sandwiched between the two, and it's worn down where the contacts rub over it.



Not sure what else to try aside from replacing the contacts (tedious, no idea if I can find the right parts), or the whole mechanism (feels like a waste). Probably need to remove it from the car and clean the whole thing up anyway.

Maybe you could lay down a bit of solder on the worn down contacts to build them up higher, and then sand the solder a little if needed to make it flat if needed? Seems like it would be easier than trying to source replacement parts.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


bennyfactor posted:

Maybe you could lay down a bit of solder on the worn down contacts to build them up higher, and then sand the solder a little if needed to make it flat if needed? Seems like it would be easier than trying to source replacement parts.
This is clever and I may try it this week!

Ripoff
Apr 21, 2003


Soiled Meat

As a former 280Z owner and current EV-haver I declare this to be cool as gently caress and something I’d love to do one day myself.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


Dash is out finally, that was a pain in the rear end! The last few things holding it in were cables for the HVAC system. Not wires, but metal cables for adjusting the vents etc. I got impatient and clipped a couple, will have to replace them eventually.





Yes I know the shop is a mess, don't hate.

The three gauges in the center will be replaced with EV and battery system instrumentation. Speedo and tach both still work fine so I will keep them, assuming I can figure out how to make the tach play nice with the new motor. I might as well replace the lights in them with LEDs while it's out of the car.

I am going to have to start throwing down money and ordering parts soon, almost running out of simple disassembly tasks now.

bawfuls fucked around with this message at Apr 10, 2018 around 19:21

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009

Ran when parked




Don't you just love gently prying on 40 year old plastic?

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


Shockingly, I didn't break anything pulling the dash out (as far as I can tell...) I think I cracked the center console last night, but it's minor. The plastic cover that fits over the fuel inlet back in the trunk though... that thing broke into about a dozen pieces.

All the insulation/foam around the HVAC vents just disintegrates on contact. It is probably worth replacing most of that system, since I do live in SoCal and summers here without A/C in the car suuuuuuuuuuck.

Waffle House
Oct 26, 2004

I have terrible opinions about Destiny the Video Game

A real treasure of this specimen is that uncracked-looking dash. That freeze-dried cheese foam is fun; so stale, so brittle.

Larrymer
Jan 10, 2007



bawfuls posted:

All the insulation/foam around the HVAC vents just disintegrates on contact. It is probably worth replacing most of that system, since I do live in SoCal and summers here without A/C in the car suuuuuuuuuuck.

How do you plan to handle the HVAC?

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


There are a couple cracks on the top of the dash, but it's limited enough that I think I'll just slap a carpet cover over it.



For HVAC I will probably try to use the existing AC compressor belted to the secondary driveshaft of the motor (you can get this motor with a drive shaft that sticks out the rear end end of it as well). The AC compressor wasn't belted up when I got the car, and there was no pressure in the system when we disassembled it, so I don't actually know if this compressor works yet. If it doesn't then I will put that bit off until later because it's kind of a pain and expensive.

The car doesn't have power steering, so the only other system that needs to be adapted is the brake booster. Electric vacuum pump + a vacuum reservoir is ~$350 and that's probably the simplest solution.

bawfuls fucked around with this message at Apr 10, 2018 around 20:56

cursedshitbox
May 20, 2012

Your rear-end wont survive my hammering.



alternatively: nissan leaf compressors. They're 12V.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


cursedshitbox posted:

alternatively: nissan leaf compressors. They're 12V.
Looks like they are mechanical, why a leaf one in particular?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«2 »