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Please don't let this thread die... super interested to see what you do for a charger and how it's gonna work out with no battery management or cooling.
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Jul 24, 2018 19:05
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Yeah, this thread is amazing. This is one of my dream projects happening.
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Jul 28, 2018 19:03
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Thread and project are not dead, just on pause while I recover from a tonsillectomy. I’m still aiming to have the car driving by the end of summer.
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Jul 28, 2018 21:38
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:Please don't let this thread die... super interested to see what you do for a charger and how it's gonna work out with no battery management or cooling. My most recent trip to EV West I was talking to the head guy there (Michael Bream) and he explained their stance on BMS in more detail. Previously they felt that all the after-market BMS available were unsafe for a variety of reasons (long high voltage leads, poor circuitry, etc) which meant they added more risk than they removed. He mentioned a customer that installed a BMS against his recommendation, and had his car burn down due to a BMS failure. There is a new one from a small outfit called Dilithium Design which fixes all the complaints EV West had and then some. Bream said this guy not only addressed all the issues they'd previously had with aftermarket BMS, but has also improved things rapidly based on their feedback, so now EV West highly recommends using this BMS specifically. They had it in stock so I bought it on the spot. Now I've got another subsystem to decipher, but it will be well worth it for the peace of mind and safety. This BMS can also monitor the existing thermistors in the Tesla modules, so that will allow for confirmation that cooling isn't needed once I have things up and running.
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Aug 10, 2018 18:32
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How much experience do you have with this type of thing? There are 2 30hp canned hermetic motors coming up at an auction here that look like they could be siamesed and stuffed in a driveshaft tunnel. http://details.maauctions.com/IndlistingYYC_Detail?Link=10/8/2018%5E83308c162ad04acaa5f257baf2bc7f9b Electric motors usually go for scrap value, the pair of them could be around $200.and any project with them would probably be years off, but how well do you think these would work in powering a car? Looking at the plate, they're 230/460v AC, 104/52 amp, 30hp, 1750rpm, continuous duty cycle. designed to run pumps.
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Aug 10, 2018 18:42
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I had zero experience with EV conversions or even working on ICE cars before this project. There is a DIY electric car forum that's moderately active, and there are a fair number of lower budget builds there using reclaimed motors like that. They seem to go for forklift motors typically (and overdrive them with like twice the rated current). My gut reaction based on what I've seen there is you can do a lot better than 60 hp with a reclaimed motor, look around for forklift motors. But if you're several years off anyway, then the salvaged OEM market is going to look different and potentially much more attractive. Something to remember when you go dumpster diving for a motor is that the batteries are also quite expensive, and much more difficult to get on the cheap. But again that should improve in the coming years. Doing it this way provides additional challenges that I wasn't confident in tackling myself. Specifically, you have to figure out a custom motor coupling solution, and you have to find a controller/inverter that will drive your scrap heap motor. Both of these components in my build are off the shelf, which makes it simpler for someone like me without a lot of experience (plus it means they have documentation and other resources to help me figure poo poo out). bawfuls fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 19:13
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bawfuls posted:Dilithium Design Powershift posted:http://details.maauctions.com/IndlistingYYC_Detail?Link=10/8/2018%5E83308c162ad04acaa5f257baf2bc7f9b
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Aug 10, 2018 23:07
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 UPDATE TIME Finally making some progress again, so here's a small update on things. Good friend Rob came by yesterday to lend a hand and some V-blocks so we could bend simple sheet metal brackets in the bench vise and mount some accessories. Pictured below you can see the radiator (so tiny it's adorable) and the coolant pump for controller cooling, the DC-DC converter (takes the place of the alternator, charging the 12V battery from the high voltage pack), and the very important main switch (red, next to the 12V battery), which disconnects the high voltage pack for maintenence.    Two main accessories remain to be mounted, the contactor box and the vacuum pump. The contactor box looks like this, and will be mounted vertically on that bracket between the DC-DC converter and the main switch:  This quarantines all the high voltage connections and switches in a plastic box, upon which I will slap a big "Danger! High Voltage!" sticker for safety. Four of the high voltage lines coming into this box are heavy 2/0 gauge cable, which doesn't bend particularly well, so planning the layout within the box is important. The vacuum pump (needed to provide a vacuum source for the brake booster), weighs like 9 pounds and is too heavy for the first place I had tried to mount it (on that bracket with hard brake lines going into it visible below). Current plan is to drill fresh holes in the car and mount it roughly here, on the driver side fender near the brake booster:  We almost did that last night, but were a little concerned about clearance with the motor and so we held off for the time being. Radiator from the front:  The hood curves down to be flush with the top of that grill, and I will eventually find some clean-ish way of blocking off the opening below the grill, so you won't even really see the radiator once things are complete. Also bent the throttle bracket and meant to mount it, but one of the existing holes in the firewall I'd planned to use is stripped so I need to go pick up a metric tap to chase it. Throttle assembly will look something like this when complete, though with the stock linkage connected higher up to that gold arm obviously:  I also started tinkering with the BMS this week, and verified that the cells within all 5 of my battery modules are pretty well balanced right now. Cell voltages varied from 3.296-3.304, which is not bad at all. Here's the BMS floortop arrangement:  That power supply is for the BMS, which is the little black box on the floor in front of it. BMS can connect to the laptop to give readouts and manage settings. Here's stats for one of the modules:  Standard deviation of cell voltages was 0.006 V, great! Once the battery modules are connected together in series, I can connect all the BMS leads to all of them at once and enable balancing. Then, the BMS will manage cell-to-cell voltage imbalances on it's own, continually, while driving and charging. Here's the BMS connections on one module, those blue and yellow leads are for two thermistors, which the BMS can also monitor:  I don't have the corresponding connectors to plug into those two blue ones right now (EV West wants to charge me $10 per pair, despite paying them $1500 per module already  ) but I will eventually get them so all the connections are clean and secure. I did gently caress something up the first day I was tinkering with the BMS, stupidly poking at things before I had the pinout for those blue connectors. I fried one of the leads from a cell group to that connector, so I'll have to run a new lead of my own eventually. These are low current leads so it's not too complicated.The battery box remains the largest fabrication task, and until it is complete I will feel like I've barely made any progress. Here's a template for the box profile, laying in the trunk roughly where I want it to sit.  The top of the box will be about flush with the cardboard there while the rest hangs ~12" below the car just behind the differential, and the frame rails of the box will extend to either side to be mounted on the car frame rails visible on either side here. This of course requires cutting out a bunch of the body of the trunk for the hole. Rob suggested yesterday that we cut out the whole spare tire well, and patch the excess with sheet metal in order to have an entirely flat seam. That makes sense to me, though there are two remaining questions about the battery box: how will we seal this seam, and how exactly should we secure the battery box frame to the car frame? The frame of the battery box is 1" box tube stainless, and I suppose we could just weld it but something makes me want to ensure it's later removable. AI suggestions are welcome here. Here's my current incomplete to-do list (a few of these are finished now)  One thing not on there is chasing a new electrical demon. I tried to show Rob how much better the new speakers sounded last night, only to discover that the ignition switched 12V source for the stereo is not working. It worked a couple months ago when I installed it, but I have since then cut out all the ECU and spark/injector wiring. According to the car's wiring diagram, this should have no effect on other electrical systems but I probably hosed something up so we shall see. Hopefully I can tackle that today, as well as running some fresh wiring into the cab for a few things. Once all the 12V electrical issues are worked out and I've run the needed wire through the firewall, I can put the dash back in, finally. I also still haven't gotten my headlight switch to work. There's been no progress on motor mounting and transmission mating, because I'm still waiting another ~2 weeks for the coupler and adapter to show up. My hope is to get all of these accessories mounted and wired before that shows up. I'd also love to have the battery box in place by then, but that involves getting Rob to pull the trigger on the welder he's been eyeing for months so we can actually do it. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 20:24
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Cool stuff. Those little blue connectors are weird. Are those orange pads covering up terminals?
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Aug 16, 2018 20:39
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Cool stuff. Those little blue connectors are weird. Yeah the orange rubber things are covers for the main battery terminals.
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Aug 16, 2018 21:21
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bawfuls posted:Rob suggested yesterday that we cut out the whole spare tire well, and patch the excess with sheet metal in order to have an entirely flat seam. That makes sense to me, though there are two remaining questions about the battery box: how will we seal this seam, and how exactly should we secure the battery box frame to the car frame? The frame of the battery box is 1" box tube stainless, and I suppose we could just weld it but something makes me want to ensure it's later removable. AI suggestions are welcome here. 1/ Seam sealer 2/ rivnuts into the car frame, brackets on the battery frame, bolt the two together? Maybe weld brackets onto the car frame with vertical tabs, matching vertical tabs on the battery frame, then you've got a bunch of through holes you can access both sides of with wrenches for a nut/bolt connection. Worst case bolts can be cut off easily if they corrode together. Make sure a couple of the mounts are inside the car so no-one can just unbolt your battery box when you're parked.
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Aug 17, 2018 07:04
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Made a more organized and hopefully complete to-do list. My hope is to get through all this and have the car running in 8 weeks. The only major component I’m still waiting on is the coupler & motor adapter, which should arrive in about 2 weeks.   
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Aug 18, 2018 21:58
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I just have to say that I'm so bloody jealous of this project.
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Aug 19, 2018 08:01
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I need some advice from AI on the 12volt system. My 12v battery cables are old and lovely and I need to be able to connect the DC-DC converter to them anyway, so I picked up some new ones with that in mind, they look like this: My initial intent was to use that secondary spur to connect the DC-DC converter. But as I looked over the specs, it occurs to me this is maybe not going to cut it. The DC-DC is capable of up to 50 Amps output! As such, it's output wires are pairs of 14 gauge cable, so a single 14 gauge lead is not sufficient. My thought then was, well maybe reverse these two leads from the default, i.e. use the heavy 4 gauge for the DC-DC input, and the other smaller lead for the 12v system supply. So my estimate of the max current draw of the 12v system is as follows: stereo - 1.5 amps (it's only an 18W receiver) cooling system - 1.5 amps vacuum pump - 7 amps lights - 5-6 amps? I don't have a spec but this is what google turned up usb ports - 2 amps So that's about 18 amps in total with some fudge factor, if everything is maxed out. The vacuum pump only runs intermittently, in like 10 second bursts to maintain vacuum for the brake booster. Is this dumb? It also occurs to me that, if the 12v system is only ever going to pull about 18 amps max, then surely that's the most the DC-DC would ever be tasked with outputting right? If that's the case, then this should suffice for DC-DC to 12v battery connection. Maybe if the car is off for an extended period and the 12v battery has drained a lot, when turned back on the DC-DC would dump it's max current output into the battery... Should I just go buy naked terminal clamps and make my own connections with a slightly heavier gauge secondary lead?
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Aug 20, 2018 21:00
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bawfuls posted:Should I just go buy naked terminal clamps and make my own connections with a slightly heavier gauge secondary lead? You know the answer is this. I'd size everything assuming the DC/DC converter will absolutely max out at some point, even if not on a regular or prolonged basis. Are you not running any HVAC?
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Aug 20, 2018 21:27
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IOwnCalculus posted:You know the answer is this. No HVAC for now, but that's a good point that I will have it eventually and that will increase the current draw on the 12v system. I've got a dual shaft motor so that eventually I can run a normal AC compressor off of it (and just deal with the fact that it won't run if the car is stopped at a light or in traffic). Car won't be running till October anyway, then I'll have at least 6 months to drive it and figure out an AC solution before next summer comes around. I live in San Diego and this car is never going to be a road trip car, so I don't have any need for a heater. Analog ammeter came in today. It is a mild bummer that no one makes these any larger, but I couldn't resist having this anyway. 
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Aug 20, 2018 21:38
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Surprised they didn't sell you one of these: http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=144 Tach displays amps, fuel gauge displays battery state, how cool is that?  Kinda kidding. I mean it's cool, but is it worth $200 and however much time to debug and tune it?
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Aug 20, 2018 21:45
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:Surprised they didn't sell you one of these: http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=144
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Aug 20, 2018 22:09
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Ultimately that's just a voltmeter with a custom scale then, right? Wonder if these guys could whip something up for you that would be a better fit: https://www.speedhut.com/
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Aug 20, 2018 22:19
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That would be pretty boss (they even have a lightning bolt icon to slap on there) but i'm sure it'd run a good deal more than the $100 this one did. The dash holes are for 3 inch gauges but on Speed Hut that appears to not be an available size (goes from 2 5/8" to 3 3/8"). Or maybe I'm just dumb and don't know how to measure gauges. The ID of the holes in my dash are 3". It looks like their customization is a wide variety of cosmetic options for a standard set of gauges. Their voltmeter comes in either 0-18V or 6-18V, while my ammeter is running off of a 50mV shunt. Someone with better electrical knowhow might be able to figure out how to make that work but for now this will do.
bawfuls fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 23:09
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Should talk to the revlimiter guy and see what he would do. http://revlimiter.net/store/gauges-custom.php
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Aug 21, 2018 02:37
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That Revlimiter guy could make something awesome, but his contact says he only makes gauges for Miatas. Mounted the three major components in the high voltage junction box and drilled the penetrations for the four heavy gauge cable connections needed here. The clearance between the cable penetrations and the frame rail down there is a little tighter than I’d like, but I tested figment and it should work fine. Still need to locate and drill probably two more penetrations for the ~8 additional low current leads going into the box.  Replaced the 12v battery terminals with fresh ones today and wired up the DC-DC connection. I reused the main battery leads but cut the old ends off, stripped back fresh ends, and went to town on the exposed copper with a wire wheel before clamping them down with double strands of 12 gauge. The red & gray leads carry the output from the DC-DC converter, allowing the main traction pack to charge the 12v system. You can see the gray connector to the DC-DC peeking out from behind the box here. Came out pretty well I think.  Also got new terminal boots which didn’t quite fit, so I had to slice the underside and secure it with zip ties. Much cleaner and safer than it was before, it always made me nervous how close the positive terminal is to the body here in the corner. “But Bawfuls you fool! Zip ties? What if you need to jump start it??”  Also wired up the vacuum pump with its sensor and relay. When I tested it the pump worked fine but it became clear the brake booster is leaking. So now I need to figure out a replacement. It’d be nice to upgrade a bit, since I did already put larger calipers on the front brakes.  More wiring tomorrow, and I need to design & fab the plastic spacers for my two undersized gauges going in the dash. Wish I had easy access to a lasercam for that, might ask a friend.
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Aug 22, 2018 05:44
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bawfuls posted:Yeah pretty much. I have no idea what I'm talking about, but would running a second, small electric motor to run the AC (or a belt to it) work?. Make the AC button turn on the motor so the AC runs. That way it'll be on when at a standstill and you can turn it off for extra range.
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Aug 22, 2018 10:55
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bawfuls posted:“But Bawfuls you fool! Zip ties? What if you need to jump start it??” Took me a moment 
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Aug 22, 2018 11:30
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MrOnBicycle posted:I have no idea what I'm talking about, but would running a second, small electric motor to run the AC (or a belt to it) work?. Make the AC button turn on the motor so the AC runs. That way it'll be on when at a standstill and you can turn it off for extra range.
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Aug 22, 2018 16:57
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That's what they recommended to me yes. But they also said they simply don't put AC in a lot of their conversions. I waited for the dual shaft version in order to allow myself that option, but I will not begin to tackle the AC question until this winter/spring. The AC on this car wasn't working when I got it and looked to have been disconnected for some time. There is going to be more work than just hooking up the compressor, may have to rebuild the whole system.
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Aug 22, 2018 19:22
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The junction box is nearly complete now. All the penetrations are here (I could have gotten away with just the lower of the two on the left side but whatever). All the internal connections are prepped and wired to check fitment. The only components in need of mounting still are the three white fuse holders, held by tape at the moment because I haven't picked up the DIN rail yet. The four penetrations at the bottom are for the high current lines (to controller/main switch/traction pack) so those will have to wait till I've got battery box and motor mounted.  Speaking of high current cables, I tried my hand at making one of the short runs today (from contactor to main switch) and the result was less than satisfactory. I didn't want to buy a hydraulic crimping tool just for this, so I tried the solder method. You take a solder pellet of the appropriate size, drop it in the terminal lug, blast it till it melts, and then jam the cable in after it. Problem is the cable fits pretty snug into the terminal already, and with everything hot I can't really guide stray copper leads in by hand. After making a connection that looked lovely, I reheated it and pulled the cable out:   That's mediocre solder penetration, plus way too much copper that ended up jammed up against the insulation and not making a connection. These are the most critical junctions in the system, carrying the full 114V and 400+ amps, so they need to be right. I ordered the hydraulic crimp tool online after this little adventure. I'm nearly finished with all the accessories and wiring I can do now before the motor coupler shows up. Really need to start battery box construction this weekend. 
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Aug 23, 2018 01:56
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If you ordered a Harbor Freight or similar hydraulic crimp tool, be prepared to be disappointed in the dies. They claim they are good to 1/0, but they aren't even close. I don't know where the hell they got their "AWG" sizes for the dies, they're dead wrong. I ended up making my own by drilling and filing some of the smaller ones.
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Aug 23, 2018 04:36
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Got it from Amazon, supposed to be good to 2/0 which is what I need it for. We’ll find out tomorrow.
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Aug 23, 2018 04:54
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sharkytm posted:If you ordered a Harbor Freight or similar hydraulic crimp tool, be prepared to be disappointed in the dies. They claim they are good to 1/0, but they aren't even close. I don't know where the hell they got their "AWG" sizes for the dies, they're dead wrong. I ended up making my own by drilling and filing some of the smaller ones. I bought a new set of dies for mine. Works way better now. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-70mm2-Hydraulic-cable-crimping-tools-dies/32824983862.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5f344c4dgnAefp 
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Aug 24, 2018 01:14
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Testing the new crimp tool today, seems to be alright. Of course I crimped this before threading the cable into the junction box so now it’s scrap but the connection looks pretty good to me, aside from stripping too much insulation back.
bawfuls fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 01:50
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It looks undercrimped to me. Notice how much more compression this picture has: 
Sgt Fox fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 02:18
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bawfuls posted:Testing the new crimp tool today, seems to be alright. Of course I crimped this before threading the cable into the junction box so now it’s scrap but the connection looks pretty good to me, aside from stripping too much insulation back. Massively undercrimped. I bet if you yank on the terminal, it'll come right off (don't though, unless you want to trash the terminal).
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Aug 24, 2018 15:01
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I put the terminal in a bench vise and yanked on the cable and it didn’t budge  Does this angle make it look any better? 
bawfuls fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Aug 25, 2018 17:23
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The only way to be sure is to measure the voltage drop with a big current flowing through it. The crimp certainly is uneven, but that photo makes it look better. Iit might have cold-formed the copper strands like it's supposed to. Those "wings" on the sides aren't really supposed to be there, but who knows. I know what happens if they aren't crimped correctly, the connection has more resistance than it should, and it heats up, which adds more resistance... continue until the terminal or whatever it's bolted to melts.
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Aug 25, 2018 20:12
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Was tough to get the die halves to align. A new set might fix that.
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Aug 25, 2018 20:17
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You might try rotating the terminal in the dies and recrimping to try to deal with those ears too. Cheap crimpers certainly can give trouble that way. Just watch that you are not deforming/uncrimping your first crimp, or fatiguing the terminal too much.
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Aug 26, 2018 00:51
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There was an offhand comment in a Might Car Mods video on their 240Z build where they mentioned using a brake booster from a modern Toyota Hilux because it was bigger, newer, and a bolt on match. So I went investigating. Just got back from my local Oreilly's, where I looked at a 8.7" booster from a 1997 Tacoma. I brought in my busted booster to compare. The bolt pattern on the firewall side of the boosters are identical! What's not a match is the master cylinder side. The matching master cylinder for this booster is $75-$115 and a 1" bore compared to the stock 7/8". It would be a clear upgrade in stopping power, with a bit of an increase in pedal effort. But on the flip side, I get the bonus of regen braking to help alleviate the need for that effort. The bigger Tacoma booster is in stock, while one intended for my Z would take some time to ship, though it's half the price. Both boosters are remanufactured, as is the Tacoma master cylinder I'd need if I go that route. Does it make sense to go with the newer bigger components or should I save myself $200 and wait a couple weeks for shipping on a proper fit for my car? bawfuls fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 23:41
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Is any of your HVAC stuff vacuum controlled? I would think on any EV conversion with power steering you would want to go to hydro-boost and cut out the vacuum system entirely.
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Aug 26, 2018 23:47
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 01:36 |
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This car doesn't have power steering and I've no plans to add it any time soon. As noted upthread the HVAC system was nonfunctional when I got the car and I won't be addressing it until later down the road, this winter or next spring. I doubt it was vacuum controlled when it did work though.
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Aug 27, 2018 00:01
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