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Sydin posted:Atlus in particular is really bad with LGBT representation. IIRC there's also a running "gag" in Persona 5 where two flamboyantly gay men want to rape Ryuji. Those scenes are being cut from the English localisation of Persona 5 Royal, at least. The chuds aren't happy about it.
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Feb 19, 2020 19:48
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Raenir Salazar posted:Isn't it also a bit of a thing, that complicates it a little, is that when it comes to being trans or transitioning that in many cases an individual who would be seen as trans in the west will not identify as trans themselves until they basically complete their transition? I think this was a thing in one manga that comes up in the romance manga and light novel thread. Again, there's definitely japanese people who lean more towards the western style of identification, but broadly speaking. This ties into the manga you're talking about, 'the bride was a boy,' because, well, the manga is titled 'the bride was a boy' and is by an actual transwoman, who chose that title herself and writes her own story with a sense of 'I used to be a guy, but now I'm a girl.' She even editorializes about disliking the law since some people don't want to transition or don't have the money or ability to transition right away, so it's not just because of the way the law works, either.
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Feb 19, 2020 19:49
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repiv posted:Those scenes are being cut from the English localisation of Persona 5 Royal, at least. The chuds aren't happy about it. They're so incredibly furious about it, it's actually kind of amazing. Especially when they mix it in with the "True fans don't criticise the media they love" rhetoric, and try to make it like a tired rear end Gay stereotype is the fundamental appeal of Persona 5 and removing it ruins the game.
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Feb 19, 2020 19:51
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repiv posted:Those scenes are being cut from the English localisation of Persona 5 Royal, at least. The chuds aren't happy about it. CENSORSHIP IN GAMING!1111!!!11 
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Feb 19, 2020 19:54
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Speaking of Japan, video games and LGBT, sure wish Guilty Gear would put more homoerotic undertones in their games like they used to lol
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Feb 19, 2020 19:56
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SteelMentor posted:They're so incredibly furious about it, it's actually kind of amazing. Especially when they mix it in with the "True fans don't criticise the media they love" rhetoric, and try to make it like a tired rear end Gay stereotype is the fundamental appeal of Persona 5 and removing it ruins the game. Considering how persona 5 generally is about progressive poo poo it arguably does ruin the game because persona 5 is bad
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Feb 19, 2020 19:58
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Archer666 posted:Speaking of Japan, video games and LGBT, sure wish Guilty Gear would put more homoerotic undertones in their games like they used to lol
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Feb 19, 2020 19:59
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Progressive stuff like sexually harassing your friend after a dungeon about an authority sexually menacing her and doing light sexual slavery role play with your teacher.
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Feb 19, 2020 20:03
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Endorph posted:'used to?' venom's literally gay and xrd gave him a big character arc I've been out of the loop on the story after XX and GG:2 and nobody really mentions the Assassins Guild characters when they talk about the Xrd story to me.
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Feb 19, 2020 20:04
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Progressive stuff like sexually harassing your friend after a dungeon about an authority sexually menacing her and doing light sexual slavery role play with your teacher. that was their point Archer666 posted:I've been out of the loop on the story after XX and GG:2 and nobody really mentions the Assassins Guild characters when they talk about the Xrd story to me.
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Feb 19, 2020 20:11
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Sorry i totally misread that lol
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Feb 19, 2020 20:13
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I remember people praising Erica as a positive depiction of trans women in games, when Catherine first released. She was portrayed as, you know, a woman and not a dude in drag. She had a normal job and was a person. This is more of an indictment against how games represent us than anything else, as Catherine (even before Full Body) does a lot wrong and yet it is still one of the better portrayals I can remember that isn’t from an indie title.
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Feb 19, 2020 20:14
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Yeah that's fair and to the game's credit Erica herself is pretty dang confident and hits back against Vincent's poo poo as well as he pushes it. What stuck out for me was just how many snide remarks Vincent and his friends make about her having transitioned (ie: basically every time they're on screen together) and how her blossoming relationship with Toby turns out to all just be a big long setup to a punchline that Toby is moping about and getting mocked for having lost his virginity to a trans woman.
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Feb 19, 2020 20:35
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At this point i don’t think it’s even Atlus, but specifically the director of Catherine and Persona 3-5, Katsuya Hashino. Like the Persona side stuff he’s not directly credited on has a lot less of the garbage and a lot more very overt queer coding. Since he’s apparently not working on the next Persona game, I’m kinda excited. Perhaps it’ll finally surpass the late 90s!
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Feb 19, 2020 20:40
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CmdrKing posted:At this point i don’t think it’s even Atlus, but specifically the director of Catherine and Persona 3-5, Katsuya Hashino. Like the Persona side stuff he’s not directly credited on has a lot less of the garbage and a lot more very overt queer coding. That's actually interesting and exciting, hopefully it's good!
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Feb 19, 2020 20:50
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"it sucks that Guilty Gear has gotten less gay" is one of the most bonkers takes i've seen in this thread man i can't even front e: bonkers because of what has already been said about how it absolutely has not gotten less gay, not because i think it would be good if guilty gear was less gay
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Feb 19, 2020 20:50
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repiv posted:Those scenes are being cut from the English localisation of Persona 5 Royal, at least. The chuds aren't happy about it. This kotaku story makes it sound like they are rewriting it more than anything else, so I am not expecting too much  https://kotaku.com/persona-5-royal-is-editing-two-homophobic-scenes-1841751118 I am of two minds of Persona 5. I mean, I loved Persona 4 and it is one of my favorite games (Even though that has its own legion of issues), and I do appreciate the anger 5 has towards evil, powerful people and society and how it punishes otherwise good people who either do not have power, made mistakes and are trying to make up for them, bad luck, or some combination thereof. On the other hand, the whole "HEEEERE COME THE HOMOS!~" episodes and the Director's weird ideas about female characters...basically undermine all of that. Like they are so close but yet.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:03
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The big issue is that a game about society at large being bad ends with nothing actually changing and everyone deciding to just grow up and work within the system. It's a very very conservative outcome.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:04
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Ibram Gaunt posted:The big issue is that a game about society at large being bad ends with nothing actually changing and everyone deciding to just grow up and work within the system. It's a very very conservative outcome. Honestly I stopped playing around September in game, mostly because I think I do not have the patience for the way modern persona games are structured nowadays. I am still wondering if I want to get P5 Royal
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Feb 19, 2020 21:10
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P5S is a straight up canon sequel and appears to feature the group going back to their Phantom Thief ways, so maybe the message gets salvaged.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:11
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Sydin posted:P5S is a straight up canon sequel and appears to feature the group going back to their Phantom Thief ways, so maybe the message gets salvaged. I doubt it, but if Katsuya Hashino isn't involved, then maybe there is a bit of hope. It helps that it actually looks good.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:16
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How do the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona series actually interlink, outside of pages of Wikipedia bullshit that overcomplicates it?
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Feb 19, 2020 21:24
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They don’t, other than that the same demons show up as enemies in both games. Think of the SMT demons as Pokemon and you get how SMT spin offs work.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:28
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Tesseraction posted:How do the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona series actually interlink, outside of pages of Wikipedia bullshit that overcomplicates it?
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Feb 19, 2020 21:28
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I feel like the Persona games just want to capture a moment of growing up but always returning to the status quo, just with lessons learned rather than more meaningful life will change stuff. Maybe P5S will change that.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:29
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For the record, I said "more tolerated by mainstream society" because Japan's mainstream society is completely and utterly hosed. There are a number of subversive movements pushing back against this, but Japan's conservative skew is horrifically encompassing. If you want to talk about Catherine vis a vie Japan, you could mention that Vincent's primary sin is refusal to have a family! ....Because Japans economy is so hosed it's literally financially impossible to start a family, but neoliberal hegemony is so complete the only response they have is to pressure women to leave the workplace and to lambast men who dare depart from normative values
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Feb 19, 2020 21:35
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Argas posted:I feel like the Persona games just want to capture a moment of growing up but always returning to the status quo, just with lessons learned rather than more meaningful life will change stuff. Maybe P5S will change that. About how many character arcs in P4 conclude with "yeah, things suck, but growing up as a person means learning my personal desires don't matter?"
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Feb 19, 2020 21:48
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A big flaming stink posted:For the record, I said "more tolerated by mainstream society" because Japan's mainstream society is completely and utterly hosed. There are a number of subversive movements pushing back against this, but Japan's conservative skew is horrifically encompassing. for all of Catherine's many flaws, the character who makes this claim is the most pathetic and un-authoritative one in the whole story even if you discount the fact that he's explicitly shown to be wrong in the bonus ending japan's conservatism is still effed though and it's especially jarring against the nominally anti-authoritarian plot of P5
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Feb 19, 2020 22:23
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sexpig by night posted:yea unless I missed something Jim's wrestling stuff is 100% the tiny indie company he has an active stake in at this point so if anything he's almost certainly doing it as self-promo rather than sneaky sponsoring. James F Sterlingson has only ever wanted to be a wrestling heel and only reviews video games because it allows for a similar level of yelling.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:36
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I feel like Vincent's sin was less that he didn't want a family and more that he was being indecisive about how to move forward with his life. If he didn't want to settle down then that was fine, but what wasn't fine was stringing along Katherine who did want to settle down. Boss even tells Vincent after he overcomes the dream and Katherine breaks up with him that it's probably the best thing for Vincent and he should just move on with his life however he pleases, and Vincent only gets back with Katherine and marries her/has a family if the player has consistently chosen that line of thinking throughout the game. There are plenty of other endings where Vincent ends up fulfilled in one way or another even if he doesn't have a family, or hell even if he moves on from both Katherine and Catherine and decides he wants to go to space.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:39
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Surprised he doesn’t have a AAA Game Executive heel personae.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:54
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https://twitter.com/BR1CKmixer/status/1229889991091859456?s=19 ninjas "just a game" rant is so much more pathetic and funny in video. Edit. https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/1230255834984144896 lol of course he says it that way. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Feb 20, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 23:32
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J.J. Macfield and the Island of Memories is proof not all Japanese media is poo poo about lgbt issues, and unlike Catherine is from a director who actually took on board criticism for a pretty bad portrayal in his earlier work.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:33
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maria watches over us has a minor character who’s a pre-transition trans girl and is accepted by everyone. it was one of the first anime shows i watched in its entirety and boy did it give me unfair expectations
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Feb 19, 2020 23:38
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I had a bunch of issues with P5, but the ending wasn’t one of them. It more or less matched up to my own beliefs that you can’t ever really change society; all you're able to do is go after individual problems one at a time. The Phantom Thieves beat the bad guy and thwarted his plan, and they’re still together and will no doubt be ready to fight any similar threats in the future, and that’s about all anyone can ask of them.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:43
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Bakeneko posted:I had a bunch of issues with P5, but the ending wasn’t one of them. It more or less matched up to my own beliefs that you can’t ever really change society; all you're able to do is go after individual problems one at a time. The Phantom Thieves beat the bad guy and thwarted his plan, and they’re still together and will no doubt be ready to fight any similar threats in the future, and that’s about all anyone can ask of them. this is also neoliberalism.txt so it's understandable why many on this forum in particular panned it
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Feb 19, 2020 23:44
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Oxxidation posted:this is also neoliberalism.txt so it's understandable why many on this forum in particular panned it Yup, people do have different opinions, and that's fine.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:45
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I know it's cliché but I'm somewhat curious as to what you mean by neoliberal, there.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:50
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Tesseraction posted:I know it's cliché but I'm somewhat curious as to what you mean by neoliberal, there. Better things aren't possible (unless we follow the rules of the system and respect authority).
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Feb 19, 2020 23:56
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Better things aren't possible (unless we follow the rules of the system and respect authority). That's not neoliberalism specifically, though. This is like saying that windows are capitalist. There's so much lack of detail you might as well say that air is neoliberal.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:00
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