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nine-gear crow posted:Dan Olson Ideas: Become Folded
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Jun 7, 2018 05:17
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Kim Justice posted:Remember. No Russian. In the moment I thought that part was brilliant, and a high point of storytelling in games that showed how they can put people in traumatic situations in ways movies would never be able to capture. When the credits rolled and not a single narrative thread was concluded, everything building on itself to be a cliffhanger for the next game, I re-evaluated it and found it just kinda gross. Shock for the sake of shock, not leading to any real point beyond what you imagine in your head. Fortunately Spec Ops The Line eventually came out and did the same thing but actually had a point to it.
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Jun 7, 2018 05:21
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Dean of Swing posted:Ideas: Become Folded Beyond: Two Folds
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Jun 7, 2018 05:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:games with bad gameplay are never a good thing. DEADLY PREMONITION, BITCH
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Jun 7, 2018 05:43
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TGLT posted:Silent Hill 2. I've put 100 hours in Skyrim and about the same amount in both Dark Souls 1 and 2. I've never read a single book in Skyrim but I love the little story bits in the items in the souls games. The thing about dark souls lore is that it comes to you with context. Why does this ring allow me to keep my souls after i die? Oh it was created for a sacrificial ritual, cool. Everything interesting in Dark Souls comes with a little story about it and they add to the environmental storytelling the game excels at. It's more work but it beats having the main antagonist monologue at you or picking up random audio logs.
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Jun 7, 2018 05:45
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OmanyteJackson posted:I've put 100 hours in Skyrim and about the same amount in both Dark Souls 1 and 2. I've never read a single book in Skyrim but I love the little story bits in the items in the souls games. The thing about dark souls lore is that it comes to you with context. I feel like having the story in the description is functionally the same as having it in an audio log, just with no voice actor. Like yeah, From's good at telling the story in other ways, but "there's lore you can read" doesn't strike me as especially revolutionary.
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Jun 7, 2018 05:57
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:DEADLY PREMONITION, BITCH Just watch Twin Peaks instead. It is exactly the same only you don't have to play a terrible game to get to the good bits. Or just watch the cutscenes on Youtube if you're that desperate as the gameplay and the game breaking bugs really are that bad.
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Jun 7, 2018 05:58
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There is a seven hour movie version of just all the cutscenes tied together on youtube which I imagine is just 7 hours of that drat whistle over and over again.
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Jun 7, 2018 06:01
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Wrageowrapper posted:Just watch Twin Peaks instead. It is exactly the same only you don't have to play a terrible game to get to the good bits. It’s not
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Jun 7, 2018 06:05
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I thought the terrible gameplay was part of the charm 
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Jun 7, 2018 06:07
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Deadly Premonition > Twin Peaks
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Jun 7, 2018 06:09
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Watch supergreatfriend's LP of it.Yardbomb posted:Deadly Premonition > Twin Peaks Uh, how loving dare you
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Jun 7, 2018 06:09
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:Beyond: Two Folds Foldable/Ideas Prophecy
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Jun 7, 2018 06:12
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Max Wilco posted:I'm sure I could make a list of games that had pretty good and engaging narratives, but were bogged down by the core game being flawed or a chore to play. I've recently been on a Pokemon kick, and I just used cheat devices to make sure I could get all the Rare Candies I would need to cut out the hours and hours of grinding for levels. It's probably my biggest issue with JRPGs, or other level-based systems. System mastery will only get you so far in those games, and you cannot proceed unless you spend 2 hours in the same room, fighting the same monsters with the same moves, until you're at the level that will allow you to beat the boss and move on to the next portion of the game. Even worse is that most of the time the game doesn't naturally put you at a level to be competitive with the next boss while going through the game to the next boss without grinding sidequests or random encounters. quote:To share a personal anecdote, I've struggled to try and get through the Baldur's Gate games. I finished the first one, but I still haven't finished BG2. I made it to the start of Chapter 6, but I think someone said that I was under-leveled and that I needed to do the other quests and part of Watcher's Keep dungeon before trying to tackle the last part of the story. I've given serious thought to just turning on the 'Story Mode' setting to just breeze through the last half of the game, but I'm still hesitant to do so (be it stubborn pride or whatever). As it is, it's sitting on my hard drive, taking up space. I had a somewhat similar experience when I played Borderlands. I didn't drop the game, but one of my issues was that main quest bits wouldn't show up until I'd spent about an hour on sidequests. It got worse in the latter portions of the game, since I'd often have to leave the area I was currently in to go to someplace that still had missions I wouldn't completely hate. If more of the sidequests were able to done on the way to the next portion needed to proceed with the main quest, I'd have a higher opinion of the game.
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Jun 7, 2018 06:16
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Kuroyama posted:I've recently been on a Pokemon kick, and I just used cheat devices to make sure I could get all the Rare Candies I would need to cut out the hours and hours of grinding for levels. It's probably my biggest issue with JRPGs, or other level-based systems. System mastery will only get you so far in those games, and you cannot proceed unless you spend 2 hours in the same room, fighting the same monsters with the same moves, until you're at the level that will allow you to beat the boss and move on to the next portion of the game. Even worse is that most of the time the game doesn't naturally put you at a level to be competitive with the next boss while going through the game to the next boss without grinding sidequests or random encounters. I can’t think of any even remotely well known jrpg where you need to grind to progress Pokemon is certainly not one of them
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Jun 7, 2018 06:33
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The PS1 release of Final Fantasy 4 absolutely required you to grind and was a remarkably bad game. Shin megami tensei Nocturne also requires quite a bit of grinding and backtracking if you aren't using a guide to predict everything that's upcoming. Similarly the pre-FES version of Persona 3. Though you're right about pokemon you get all the required levels basically through normal play unless you're running from the default fights.
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Jun 7, 2018 06:39
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Andrast posted:I can’t think of any even remotely well known jrpg where you need to grind to progress As much as I love it, you can definitely gently caress yourself a couple times if you ignore characters too hard in FFX and then woops, hard story fight doles out your least leveled people.
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Jun 7, 2018 06:41
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Yardbomb posted:As much as I love it, you can definitely gently caress yourself a couple times if you ignore characters too hard in FFX and then woops, hard story fight doles out your least leveled people. Yeah, but you don't need to grind, you only need to remember to use your red-headed stepchildren once in a blue moon too prevent this.
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Jun 7, 2018 06:43
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Dragon Quest is pretty infamous for requiring a fair bit of grinding. Also Disgaea has grinding up absurd levels and stats as part of the core appeal of the games.
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Jun 7, 2018 06:52
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Puppy Time posted:I feel like having the story in the description is functionally the same as having it in an audio log, just with no voice actor. It’s not as most people can read something much faster than people can talk.
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Jun 7, 2018 07:02
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Kuroyama posted:I've recently been on a Pokemon kick, and I just used cheat devices to make sure I could get all the Rare Candies I would need to cut out the hours and hours of grinding for levels. It's probably my biggest issue with JRPGs, or other level-based systems. System mastery will only get you so far in those games, and you cannot proceed unless you spend 2 hours in the same room, fighting the same monsters with the same moves, until you're at the level that will allow you to beat the boss and move on to the next portion of the game. Even worse is that most of the time the game doesn't naturally put you at a level to be competitive with the next boss while going through the game to the next boss without grinding sidequests or random encounters. I'm pretty sure most JRPG's of the last ten years haven't required grinding. Like, yeah, early Dragon Quest games from the 80's and 90's are notorious for that, but then you get the remakes on DS and 3DS and they don't require grinding at all. You can pick basically any PS1 JRPG and there's like a 50/50 chance it'll need grinding to progress, and by the PS3 era it's more of a 1/20 chance if not lower. And we're in the PS4 era right now, I don't think anybody bothered grinding in Final Fantasy 15 or Dragon Quest 11, because developers have had decades of experience balancing these games now. Course Pokemon is a weird case cause you're constantly catching new Pokemon and they can be variable levels, so if you want to use a specific one but it's only level 4 when the rest of your team is in their 30's, then yeah, you'll need to grind to get that one up to scratch. But that's less a mistake on the part of the developers and more of a choice to grind on the part of the player, like, you'll always find Pokemon at a competitive level in the most recent area you're in, so even if you feel like you're falling behind you can just catch a new Pokemon or two and now you're back in action. EDIT: Also, system mastery can and will utterly break any game, even JRPG's. It's not hard to find low level runs of basically any popular JRPG of the last couple of decades. SatansBestBuddy fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 07:09
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Alacron posted:Dragon Quest is pretty infamous for requiring a fair bit of grinding. Disgaea doesn’t require you to grind in the main story at all. The postgame is basically a puzzle game game where you figure out how to grind millions of stats as fast as possible. Andrast fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 07:09
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i never minded grinding in jrpgs, in fact i really like doing it sometimes when i need to do something to clear my mind and not think. it's prolly why i really like the first dragon quest game despite it being archaic at best and consisting mostly of grinding for money and levels.
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Jun 7, 2018 07:31
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No JRPGs require grinding anymore at least since the PS1. Though Pokémon never required grinding as it’s a children’s rpg.
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Jun 7, 2018 07:35
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:i never minded grinding in jrpgs, in fact i really like doing it sometimes when i need to do something to clear my mind and not think. it's prolly why i really like the first dragon quest game despite it being archaic at best and consisting mostly of grinding for money and levels. The PS3/360 generation basically soured me on grinding in video games. I used to play longass RPGs on the PS2 with a Gameshark to skip over all the grinding and get to the fun bits of the story and gameplay because I generally didn't have the time in my life at that point to spend triple digit hours with a game, even if I loved it. So that generation and onward removing or restricting your ability to cheat kind of killed my interest in a lot of larger games. I think it was in like my 50th hour of Final Fantasy XIII trying to do the various grindy Gran Pulse plots that something just broke in my brain and I went "yeah no I'm done with this poo poo."
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Jun 7, 2018 07:41
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nine-gear crow posted:I think it was in like my 50th hour of Final Fantasy XIII trying to do the various grindy Gran Pulse plots that something just broke in my brain and I went "yeah no I'm done with this poo poo." i think this has more to do with you spending that much time on an exceptionally poo poo game than anything tbqh
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Jun 7, 2018 07:46
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CharlestheHammer posted:No JRPGs require grinding anymore at least since the PS1.
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Jun 7, 2018 08:04
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Terrible Opinions posted:Either you have played very few JRPGs or have a defective definition of grinding. I don’t think you have played one in like 15 years. The only grinding is usually post game stuff which I don’t bother with because gently caress that.
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Jun 7, 2018 08:15
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Alacron posted:Dragon Quest is pretty infamous for requiring a fair bit of grinding. They don't, really. That's not just me being a smug turbo-nerd either. The thing with Dragon Quest is that there's a spell that warps you out of a dungeon. One that warps you back to town. People love to use those any time they kill a boss to go right back to town and progress the plot. When you do that, you miss out on all the fights from the boss room back to the entrance of the dungeon, which after your post-boss levels will be easier. You miss out on the field battles, which will be again easier now. That EXP stacks up. By the time people reach the common bottlenecks of the game, usually a hard boss, they've been skipping half the EXP of every plot oriented adventure and complain that they're too weak for the new hardest boss. In my experience, at least, if you don't use those warp spells you usually wind up at roughly the proper level for most boss encounters.
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Jun 7, 2018 08:33
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t think you have played one in like 15 years.
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Jun 7, 2018 08:44
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Terrible Opinions posted:So like have you just not noticed how the last three Persona games have shown a pretty drastic reduction in the amount of grinding expected and generally changing gameplay with each entry to make the gameplay actually fun instead of a tedious bore? The gameplay itself being boring is very different thing than a game requiring grinding. P4 and P5 required absolutely zero grinding at all.
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Jun 7, 2018 08:46
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Andrast posted:The gameplay itself being boring is very different thing than a game requiring grinding. P3 FES doesn't require grinding either. If you can get to the gate at the end of a Tartarus block, you are ready to deal with the full-moon boss.
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Jun 7, 2018 08:50
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P5 having fixed the issue was more or less my point. P3 and far more egregiously the Answer were bad games that happened to have enjoyable stories and each new entry has had to try to fix that. You may be right on P4, I could have just been conflating the normal gameplay being boring with forced grinding.
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Jun 7, 2018 08:52
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Terrible Opinions posted:P5 having fixed the issue was more or less my point. P3 and far more egregiously the Answer were bad games that happened to have enjoyable stories and each new entry has had to try to fix that. Well, P3 is 12 years old at this point
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Jun 7, 2018 08:54
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It is but the statement argument was "since the PS1" when the PS2 and later 360 were the golden home of grinding do nothing games. Though most of them also have bad or at least not especially great stories. Like Lost Odyssey was a grindy rear end game but no really cares because it's story is a snoozefest and so it's probably just made for people who enjoy that sort of thing. Similarly bringing up old school revival games like FF4 the after years is presumably also not going to count for most people because it's supposed to be like the older grindier games. Persona was just a franchise people actually like. edit: Actually question for you people then. Is there some secret to playing the Etrian Odyssey games correctly or at they intended to be nothing but grind? Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 09:01
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Groovelord Neato posted:i can't think of any game that has a story good enough to skip the actual game part. Deadly Premonition. With having such a clunky gameplay (part thanks to corporate mandate demanding way more combat sections) that you're way, way better off watching SuperGreatFriend's LP of it.
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Jun 7, 2018 10:52
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The original Pokémon games could pretty much be powered through with just your starter even if you're a stupid kid, but gold and silver have major level stagnation problems in the wild Pokémon followed by massive level jumps in the boss trainers.
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Jun 7, 2018 11:14
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Dabir posted:The original Pokémon games could pretty much be powered through with just your starter even if you're a stupid kid, but gold and silver have major level stagnation problems in the wild Pokémon followed by massive level jumps in the boss trainers. The AI is still dumb as bricks though so you can overcome level differences pretty easily
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Jun 7, 2018 11:17
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Kunster posted:Deadly Premonition. With having such a clunky gameplay (part thanks to corporate mandate demanding way more combat sections) that you're way, way better off watching SuperGreatFriend's LP of it. I don't think that's true. I think there's something special to playing the game yourself, and the combat is not THAT bad and if you engage with the side missions for extra weapons can actually become pretty fun/fast at the very least. The problem is the game puts its worst foot forward with the level in the lumbermill, it is bad but no other combat section is as bad as that one.
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Jun 7, 2018 11:59
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I don't know if it was grind that made me stop playing JRPGs for a long time, so much as it was the weird hoops you had to jump through in a lot of games in regards to some of the side quests. The one instance that stands out in my mind is Final Fantasy 12, where to get one of the special end game items or something, you had to make sure not to open certain specific chests, and there no real way of knowing which ones they were. EDIT: It was the Zodiac Spear weapon you got, and it turns out that the re-releases took that dumb gimmick out. The only other game I can think of where I got tired of grinding was the first Kingdom Hearts, where I kept killing the same enemy over and over to try and get items drops to make the Ultima Weapon. I was under the impression that the Monster Hunter games revolved heavily around grinding for drops, but I was under the impression that MH World improved on that (I don't know for sure, because I bought MHW a little while after it came out, but regrettably, I haven't put any real time into it.) Andrast posted:Disgaea doesn’t require you to grind in the main story at all. The postgame is basically a puzzle game game where you figure out how to grind millions of stats as fast as possible. I played a lot of Disgaea 2, but I never got to the end. I remember reading there was some weird way to super-level characters quickly in those games, but I was never clear on how you were supposed to do it. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 12:06
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