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cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
my back is injured and I didn't even do anything

still don't

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cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
right, none of that bullshit erases the role of capital and how it influences power and stuff, the hierarchies won't change

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
considering most of the critics in this thread attempt in some manner to undermine man-childism, it's an odd thing to accuse them all of

I'm sure lindsay for example finds the charge somewhat suspect

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Fun fact: the guy who wrote The Book of Henry is best friends with Jordan Peterson.

this makes far too much sense

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

RareAcumen posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMb7-6eg4Zo

Okay, I watched Foldable Human's video on The Book of Henry- and it was great- and took forever to say anything as I am one to do. And I would've totally been down with the movie as he told it in the first half. Kid genius who keeps the family running because his mom's kinda just floating through life- like a reverse Matilda- seems neat, IMO.

Shame about the kill your neighbor because of flimsy justification thrust of the movie though.

even if you ignore the neighbour killing plot, the politics of the first half, the way the mother is depicted and the way henry behaves is fairly misogynistic, someone mentioned that the writer of book of henry is best friends with jordan peterson and I gotta tell ya, everything locked into place for me after hearing that

stop playing video games, janice

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

RareAcumen posted:

Animate all shows like Okami

hell fuckin yeah

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

it's a good vid folks, I already kinda liked TLJ but this video helped put some of its ideas in a clearer perspective and I respect what it was trying to do more, mark of a decent critic imo

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Max Wilco posted:

I was always under the impression that FromSoft never put a great focus on the lore in their games. The story cutscenes and item descriptions always seemed like they were done as an afterthought, and that their main concern was making a RPG that played well, rather than telling a deep story. Regardless, the way it's presented and how you interact with characters make it so that the games have this weird, disjointed style to them, but in a way that makes it feel very surreal.

Interestingly, one of the King's Field games did something similar where instead of it being on the item itself, you took it to a fortune-teller, and she'd give you some background about it.

this impression kinda implies that they were pretty successful implementing that style of worldbuilding, because it was very much an intentional design choice, miyazaki has talked about seeing english D&D books and fighting fantasy books with all the art and stuff that inspired him, but he couldn't read any of it, and had to kind of intuit a new story, which is something he wanted to capture for demon's souls and dark souls

considering the way people talk about the lore and the way it's kinda theorycrafted, it very much feels similar to ways people talking about real world mythology, it's pretty rad

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
youtube red is a very effective adblocker

I mean I just buy google music because it's good but the lack of ads on any device is a cool bonus I guess

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Dapper_Swindler posted:

I find it fascinating how they went from worst storytelling to loving great storytelling all from the same writer. So were the other games flukes or was hellblade the fluke.

a good deal of how DmC turned out was actually capcom, they were very involved in the project and kept pushing for changes that ninja theory seemed uncomfortable with or unprepared for, leaving them in the awkward position of defending changes they themselves didn't even want to make (and they did this in a really lovely way to be fair)

though I'm not saying capcom was totally at fault obv, it was just that the kind of game ninja theory actually wanted to make was very different from what was made

japanese publishers in general were really struggling with trying to appeal to western audiences to expand their profit base, since trying to appeal solely to japanese audiences with the skyrocketing development budgets just wasn't working out, lots of publishers in japan were doing this and I can't think of a single instance where it actually worked out, saying "well ok DMC is more popular in the west than it is here so let's westernise it" just alienates the original audience which came to that game for its japanese style in the first place

though thankfully it seems like lately we've come out of the other side of this mentality with japanese publishers, so hopefully something like DmC never happens again

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
that mlg kdr bullshti was very much there before modern warfare came out, it was quite a big chunk of the cod fanbase, cod 2 was huge online, you could say that activision shifted focus but I don't think it's accurate to say they alienated the original fanbase

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
I accessed the art of that post all the way from australia

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Kim Justice posted:

Oh yeah, real original.

Y'all are a bunch of hypocrites. "Oh please, I'm clutching my rosary to protect the poor minority black female transgender people :("

*person disagrees with you/says something you don't like*

"loving SLOB TRANNY FAT gently caress UNCLE TOM BITCH"

is there a reason you continue to engage with this thread it only seems to make you mad

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Augus posted:

Because while Milo is a piece of poo poo, people who identify as “in the middle” who repackage and normalize this nonsense arguably cause more harm .

I wonder where have I heard that before

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Dapper_Swindler posted:

https://youtu.be/m8PAWO4Y_rY An interesting video on ludonarative disodence and how the term slot became overused and how it moved away from its original meaning. It also talks abou how imprecise language hurts art criticism.

his argument kinda goes in circles and it's a little poorly edited (the script not the video, it could be a lot more succinct) but it's an argument worth making so I recommend watching this, pro click imo

it is a little interesting how much the term has been twisted over time due to the lack of critical comprehension by (attempted) critics, it's something I've talked with people about a lot, how the people attempting to do actual criticism often have a total lack of academic rigour and use terms and ideas gained purely through second hand conversations and assumptions

obviously it's a process, nobody's going to spring forth from the ether entirely studied on art criticism from a ludic perspective, but the people that actually are studied in it are a tiny minority of people writing about games

and I'm not trying to be all ivory tower about this, anyone can write about games, I myself never went to university, you just owe it to yourself if you're writing about the medium to understand it to its fullest

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
the uncharted games do have a very casual relationship with violence which some people find off putting, understandably, but to me what matters isn't the amount of violence (it's a loving lot!!!) but the intent behind the violence, the concern trolling of "THAT MAN HAD A FAMILY! :cry: " is interesting but doesn't really reveal anything beyond the writer's psychology

like, if we ask the question of does that faceless merc you're mowing down with an AK-47 while hanging from a cliff have a family the answer is clearly no, that merc's life and personhood doesn't matter, the intent behind the violence is to dehumanise your enemy, making dispatching them as easy and mindless as possible, partly a moral judgment and partly a gameplay thing, it's just not fun to mow down a bunch of guys who have families and nothing about them morally questionable

whether or not you morally agree with the idea of that dehumanisation or killing as a way of potentially reducing harm has a lot to do with whether you buy into that violence

personally I bought into it with uncharted 4 because the less south african PMCs the loving better

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Mr Phillby posted:

Having watched the video about Ludonarrative Dissonance I sort of feel like the original usage of the term was sort of limited and the new common usage feels a lot more useful. Gameplay doesn't need to directly engage with the theme of the story for there to be a disconnect between the two. A fair few recent AAA titles have attempted to elevate the narrative while not really giving the same treatment to the gameplay portions, which makes them feel disconnected. Are we suposed to use another term for this because the one that actually describes this phenomenon was originally intended to have a narrower definition, despite the actual term not really describing that specific definition?

The example of Uncharted is interesting because the dissonace comes from how uncritical the Story is of Gameplay Nathan's cavalier attitude to killing. In the video it's argued that an Uncharted where Story Nathan suffers from PTSD or in some way grapples with the consequences of killing hundreds of people would actually introduce dissonance. However, the dissonant aspect is how Gameplay Nathan and Story Nathan feel like different characters entirely, so having one actually react to the actions of the other could only make them feel less disconnected. It honestly doesn't take a lot to excuse killing in videogames, Uncharted just completely fails at it by essentially putting Indiana Jones into a war game then not really adressing how that doesn't work.

it's not limited, it's just specific, what you're trying to apply it to is just bad writing, not ludonarrative dissonance

the video also makes a mistake in describing the term, I feel, all ludonarrative dissonance requires is a dissonance between the ludonarrative, that is the mechanics and how they interact with the player and the narrative that is created from that, and the story contradicting themselves in some manner

the uncharted games in no way suffer from this because the story is neither a celebration of nor a condemnation of violence, the ludonarrative features violence in abundance but the story not about violence in specific

the original post that featured the term speculated that moving forward, as games get more sophisticated, designers will seek to create specific ludonarratives that connect with the story and help explore its themes, meaning the "gameplay portion" and "story portion" will become less separated and the medium will begin to feel more cohesive, what you're feeling with the uncharted games and its storytelling is a dissonance from a total lack of artistic cohesion that a strong ludonarrative would solve, the problem with these games isn't ludonarrative dissonance it's an almost total lack of ludonarrative to begin with

a good example of where this line of thinking might get us is 2017's prey, where the game is almost entirely about how the ludonarrative and story interact, it's even in the same genre as bioshock so it's a good counterpoint to how a strong ludonarrative might solve some storytelling issues

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
they're like that part of your brain when you're depressed that will come up with any reason to not do something come to life

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Puppy Time posted:

So... what I'm getting is, "basically the socialist equivalent of 'hipster'"

well, sort of, at least as far as I understand it people usually mean it as "this person will invent any bad faith reason to shut something down" because whatever event or organising thing isn't literally perfect

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
fascinating

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

this is 100% the right move for him, better to have stable work and pay than languishing on youtube alone under the whims of the almighty algorithm

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
have the rebels just tried talking to the empire, none of this political violence is acceptable

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

OmanyteJackson posted:

Hey, all Star Wars movies are just, like, ok. not terrible, not great, just... ok.

whoah calm down dude

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
in hellworld, every day is festivus !!

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

if you can't compete with piracy the free market has spoken, nintendo's just mad at capitalism

the "netflix for games" thing comes up a lot, but it's really obvious that if you do that model right it's an insane cash cow, just look at the money netflix throws around to acquire stuff, they're loaded

like imagine if nintendo had some sorta app that you could just download on everything, PCs, macs, iphones, android, and you paid a monthly fee and had access to everything they've made from nes to gamecube since that's realistically what most people can emulate, it would be loving gigantic, and pretty much the only way to actively monetise their obsoleted library beyond the pathetic VC offerings on wii u or the nes/snes minis

nintendo still operates like it's the loving 90s

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

CYBEReris posted:

I'm curious, is there anything apart from maybe Dark Souls where the Chosen One prophecy is a red herring designed to trap and constrain the protagonist to a specific set of actions, whether in service to a nebulous Greater Good or outright evil?

as already mentioned, final fantasy games deal with this a fair bit (mostly because of the series' penchant for organised religion skepticism), final fantasy x revolves around that idea almost entirely

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
you know people say myst is obtuse all the time and i don't quite get it, I played it for the first time a couple years ago (well it was some kinda remake so maybe they'd changed stuff) and it seemed like a game that set a lot of standards for modern puzzle game design, and while it wasn't exactly straightforward there was more than enough tools to let you know how to progress in the game itself

only part I straight up hated was the weird underground tram thing that sucked poo poo

oh and also there was some bonus chapter thing at the end that the remake added that was also trash

but yeah I actually consider myself a fan of that game, it was cool and I enjoyed it

thanks 4 reading

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
the lengths people go to invent reasons people dislike the prequels are honestly pretty stupid, it's not some big secret ok, you don't need to do some mental gymnastics

they're boring

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Linear Zoetrope posted:

I do know several people that had more complex objections than the few Shaun was noting -- mainly that they were mad that Id seemed to be drawing a parallel between progressive language and corporate-speak, and said they didn't really accept the defense that it was parodying corporate appropriation of progressive language because it got too close to just making fun of progressive language itself. I think Shaun dismisses that viewpoint a little too much. However, it's not anywhere near enough people to be a "controversy".

the joke isn't about the language itself though but the appropriation of it to further an utterly absurd and insane end, corporations doing evil through a smile is such an obvious continuation of doom 2016's themes which were really obviously leftist in nature

like I get what you're saying but I think the logical conclusion of your argument is those jokes are off limits because you can't make fun of progressive language, which is dumb

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
I don't buy that, the worst thing that joke being there has done is rob it of its full context, but in the full context of the game it's probably going to be incredibly obvious what the narrative intentions are of the poo poo the holograms say, because in the course of the game those jokes and ideas will build upon themselves and the intended reading will be a lot more obvious

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
oh how did this get here, very strange

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
blight town actually loving rules

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
any level that can make you feel like you're on some descent into hell where everything loving hates you and wants you dead while you're totally lost rules

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Kim Justice posted:

I've tried to get into Souls (only number 1) a couple of times but have never quite managed it. I REALLY wanna though, it seems like tons of...um, fun? Is that the right word?

I get frustrated and defeated so easily mind you, and I barely give myself the time to play things that aren't the simple to understand old games I usually cover.

I'd try starting off with bloodborne if you wanna get a feel for the series, plus it's a little better balanced and more mechanically satisfying initially, while still giving you a good feel for the style of combat in the other souls games

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
the correct people to hate are white south africans hope I could help

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Annointed posted:

Hot take telling people how to enjoy playing a videogame just makes you look like a tool and a tosser shaken in a literal bell end.

your experience of any kind of art is unique to you, if you find a particular way of playing a video game more fun, that's yours, nobody else's, for that reason telling someone that the way they're playing "isn't fun" is a little silly

asking someone to replicate your idea of fun because they're not enjoying themselves, when they most likely are, is just...what are you even doing

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

OmanyteJackson posted:

I get what your talking about and in a broad sense, saying that "This is how you enjoy X" is mostly not helpful. That said if you understand what aspects of a game a person enjoys it can be pretty helpful to prime them on how to best get that experience from that game. So more "If you want to best experience the lore/story do this" or "if you want to test your skill, do this". Dark Souls is pretty great because of this, you can get hundreds of different youtube channels saying "This is the way to play the game" it's pretty awesome.

that's essentially my point though, there's so many different ways to play dark souls and everyone has their version, we all find ours, and if it's not your kinda game I doubt that finding the canonical "right way" would ever help

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cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
this goblin rape anime sounds like an anime sargon of akkad would make

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