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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


MisterBibs posted:

Nah, any assumed sassiness is purely imagined.

But really, I can get telling your employer that you learned how to work with others (and given CA's collapse, you could justifiably swing it as working in difficult situations), utilizing social media, etc etc. At the same time, having done video skits while reviewing bad movies/comics/games/whatever for a decade seems like it'd be kinda alienating for a future employer, depending on the conventionalness of the company.

i mean you can easily get some job in a similar field. a couple of the CA guys have already gone onto more traditional jobs, like one of the french guys works on made for TV movies now. they aren't gonna sit down and vet literally everything you ever did, just 'i did sketch comedy videos for a website' is a reasonable enough thing to say. and a lot of sketch comedy is built on the backs of other stuff. like the soup is a show that airs on television.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Leal posted:

Unless you're DSP and the second image for googling image search is you jerking it on cam
there are some careers where thats a benefit

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


The fact is that even if his marriage sucked and he was trying to divorce her, and even if everything was consensual, a grown married man going into 18 year old's DMs to talk to them about 'building a healthy space where we can all express ourselves sexually' and then showing them his dick is creepy as poo poo.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


and also tons of his defense boils down to 'she has head trauma' and 'look at them, begging for donations for gender transition surgery'

like does he belong in jail, maybe not. is his ex-wife lovely, possibly. does he still suck, yes. obviously. it's insane to me that like 90% of the internet seems to be taking his side but i guess 'no consequences ever for dude who makes mediocre final fantasy reviews' is pretty standard internet.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!



so why are you posting in defense of him

i assure you the entire internet already has calling his ex-wife a lying whore on lockdown, your talents arent needed

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Yeah, sorry. I'm just insanely frustrated that this poo poo works. His sub base is rebuilding, 90% of his old youtube friends are refollowing him, tweets mocking his ex-wife have thousands of likes. Dudes don't get punished for anything, any time it seems like they might is pure illusion. Even if he didn't commit any actual crimes he still doesn't deserve to be in any position of minor social power or fame with that kind of behavior, but here we are.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

I get that, but also a honest question- when I click her trending tag on twitter I just see people believing her and also sending her cat pictures. Everyone else is just saying "wow this is turning into he said/she said I'm out." which is kind of where I'm at personally. Where are you seeing all the angry tweets and the like?

(I swear I'm not calling you a liar or anything, I don't use twitter all that much so I genuinely don't see much of it)

https://twitter.com/KEEMSTAR/status/1166449995156983809

one of the biggest youtubers for starters

and also the replies to every tweet she made

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


*while sexually manipulating a mentally ill teenager* now, are you eighteen? *cops and soldiers throw a huge parade for me, mayor gives me the key to the city, shake hands with john cena and michael jordan*

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


even if you are in a polyamorous relationship the point of that relationship is communication and trust. seems to me he could have at least told his ex-wife about his tumblr sex ring, and also opened every interaction with his tumblr sex ring is 'btw im married, my wife is cool with it but let me know if you aren't', which he doesn't seem to have done because while him being married wasn't a hidden secret or anything he doesn't seem to have made a point of emphasizing that he was

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Augus posted:

no she really wasn’t
it was an incredibly mundane take about how cis people tend to behave differently when there’s one trans person in the room
then why did she bring up nb people at all lol

also i dont think the fact that the crappy youtube lady will no longer Tweet is a massive setback for leftism

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Augus posted:

so gently caress her for wanting to be referred to with the proper pronouns I guess
dude if she just wanted to say those cis people sucked that would be totally fair, but she brought up nb people for no reason and then refused to just go 'yeah that isnt the point i was trying to make but i could see how you could read it that way, my bad'

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


TheMaestroso posted:

You're leaving out the most original tweet in this discussion where the situation was specifically about her being with a group of cis people (not trans) who were doing a pronoun circle and referring to THEM as "woke." She's expressing how awkward it is to be in that situation as the ONLY trans person and having to go through the motions, which makes her feel singled out and effectively othered in the process. How this became about NB folk is honestly confusing, because none of the tweets in your post or the original tweet refer to them in any capacity.
it became about nb people because she literally brought them up herself for no reason

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Goa Tse-tung posted:

she made a mistake because she didn't think things through

and the next mistake was not realizing that and instead just posting through
yeah thats exactly my point

if shed just gone 'yeah i made a mistake in wording it that way, heres what i meant' it would have been over and done with in two days but instead she decided to go for the dramabomb option and now a bunch of people are mad about the terrifying power that 15 year old undertale fanartists hold over the future of leftist politics

get that OUT of my face posted:

hell, who hasn't done this
i dont think she deserves to get permanently owned or anything, she just said something stupid and then handled it in the dumbest possible way once she got any pushback for it

like seriously going through the twitter replies for those tweets it was like 90% support and 10% 'what', im sure some people were bitching about her in their own circles but it seriously feels like there being some massive cancel backlash here is entirely made up.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


ftr there are issues with cancel culture but 'cancelling' only ever actually permanently affects people with 200 followers who draw problematic gay voltron fanart, anyone with any sway can literally just ignore it or vanish for a couple months and come out the other end totally fine. like contrapoints will be back in 3 weeks and nobody will mention any of this again.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


SunAndSpring posted:

It's not cancel culture, it's just people whining because ContraPoints had a personal anecdote that did not agree with some invisible and hard-to-read orthodoxy assembled by people who have Zombieland Saga avatars.
as opposed to the globally understood and well-researched orthodoxy handed down to us by the most qualified of scholars, some lady with a youtube channel

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i'm gonna admit i am a little uncomfortable with the idea that if someone ever says or does a bad thing, they are Bad Forever and have Always Been Bad and are incapable of change

like we're really bad at offering "cancelled" people any kind of path forward beyond "gently caress off forever" or "go full chud," and the former just straight up isn't reasonably possible for a lot of media people because media poo poo is the only marketable skill they have
they can literally just keep going and nothing will change dude, thats the thing that gets ignored in conversations like this

if contrapoints dropped a video literally right now, entirely unrelated to any of this, itd get the same number of views and the same like/dislike ratio as always. the majority of people pay literally no attention to this stuff and even the people who are passingly aware of it will forget about it in a week or two. nobody has any actual power to do anything to contrapoints. she could log onto twitter and declare this was all a part of her master plan to demonize nb people and nothing would happen, her making a mildly off aside isnt even worth a medium article.

thats why its so funny that she deleted over it and so many people are wringing their hands just because a few random twitter people went 'hey this is kind of stupid.' literally any pushback for anything is seen as a betrayal of the left, regardless of how ineffectual it is.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


disagree with her, but not like, too much, or else you might give mother the vapors

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i... really don't feel like it's that simple? like, a lot of times when people attempt to apologize for poo poo they got "cancelled" for, everyone assumes it's insincere and they're actually still secretly bad and just hiding it to get their following back. you have to give a real fuckin' good apology, beyond what Twitter even has the space for, for the hate mob to do more than just quiet down for a minute before jumping right back up your rear end.

like, when i say there's not a path forward, i'm keeping the obvious in mind; it's just that the obvious doesn't really work, in my experience.

(i should also note that, again, we're generally better than the norm about this. i'm not griping about goons' conduct, the discourse here has been 100x more thoughtful than anywhere else on the goddamn internet about this. i'm griping about leftbook asshats on my social media, where this exact same discourse is happening, but... uh... worse. like, a lot of people i consider to be friends who are otherwise decent are being outright loving nasty about this and trying to claim poo poo like that she's actually a secret neo-Nazi trying to gently caress over the left by making fake leftists.)

e: also I should note, I 100% agree that her tweets sucked. she had a bad opinion. twitter hate mobs are still not a great way to handle this.
again the only person you're talking about who this actually applies to is random people with sub-1k twitter followers. look at pretty much any famous case of some youtuber being cancelled and you'll see they're doing fine. most of them are doing better than before. nick robinson was working at polygon with like 100k-200k views on his videos, he got outed as a sex creep, he went dark for a whopping three months, and now he has like 12 million views on his most popular video and 1-2 million on his others.

heck look at nostalgia critic, he had his entire *website* #cancelled and his videos still get 500k-600k views. nobody's being cancelled.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Sep 5, 2019

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


VanSandman posted:

Let's not pretend that wanting to pass without being questioned on your pronouns is some deadly sin.
nobody is saying it is. dont think anyone was mad at her for expressing frustration with that. it was the way she acted like nb people were responsible for this when in reality her issue was with dumbass cis people awkwardly implementing things they read about on tumblr. she literally says as much in her opening tweet, but then she said 'this is good for NB people but bad for me,' as if NB people somehow have control over dumbass cis women.

like even for a nb person a giant circle where everyone goes around saying their pronouns would be awkward as gently caress because itd put a giant spotlight on them as the 'nonstandard one.'

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


SunAndSpring posted:

This poo poos so loving arcane, no wonder its proponents are all anime avis.

Im trying to do the mental gymnastics to learn how this poo poo goes from I will be discussing this in a video to I despise the enby community and they all need to get surgery now and well it looks like Im not getting a gold medal in this particular contest
Im trying to do the mental gymnastics to divine what someone liking cartoons made by japanese people has to do with anything considering youve brought it up in literally every post about this

And the point is that she responded to someone saying 'gender isnt an internal feeling and the thought that it is is incoherent gibberish' with 'youre right!!!'

Like you got mad about someone calling you mate but contrapoints literally says, in that tweet, that if you dont pass as a woman than its totally fine to misgender you. Not in a 'you should understand that some people will make that mistake/youll have to tell them' or 'it probably wont work on a lot of cis people' but literally 'the transwomen ive met who have told me that theyre transwomen arent valid because they werent passing at the time.'

That isnt arcane bullshit thats really, really straightforward.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


theres literally people in the replies calling this the next gamergate, that's 100% the narrative thats being run with

we should tax youtubers 200%

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


i mean its kind of an inevitable defense mechanism to categorize all people who show up negatively in your replies as 'haters' when you have this much social attention, even when some of those people have a reasonable concern expressed in a normal way and some of those people are threatening to burn your house down. like theres degrees there but it all just gets absorbed into the same noise machine. and the only people who can really fully understand this are other people with platforms, so they talk to each other about it and become closeknit, which means they want to cover for each other, which is what leads to stuff like this, where contrapoints does thing A, people want to instinctively cover for her, which makes the blowup worse.

the obvious solution is to not engage with your fans this much but its hard when people value that so much and your entire platform and (if you're big enough) career are entirely online, so you're kind of forced to engage, which feeds into the same fan overinvestment that leads to stuff like this. i dont think philosophytube's response is good, its stupid as hell, but i get why it came out that way. there's just a fundamental disconnect between the way he sees it and the way the average person would see it, because hes the one that has to deal with thousands of replies daily even when nothing is blowing up.

But yeah for all that it's garbage that he couldn't just say 'buck angel poo poo tho,' and this isn't the time to advertise the musical numbers in his next video.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Oct 20, 2019

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!



good news for everyone saying hbomberguy did it right

https://twitter.com/Hbomberguy/stat...026655032250369

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Junpei Hyde posted:

the lindsay one is the only good one tbh
i dont disagree with a lot of it but ''a community that jumps at every possibility to apply the worst interpretation of any perceived transgression' is just a dogshit thing to say when you break down what she means by 'community' (she means nb people)

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Arist posted:

I'm really not sure what most of you expect here.
'buck angel is a shithead, i support nb people, im not gonna stop being friends with contrapoints but you're free to criticize her'

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


sexpig by night posted:

I dunno, not complete garbage like 'HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE NEED TO SAY SHE SUPPORTS NB PEOPLE YOU UNGRATEFUL SWINE' when the point is regardless of how many times she says that this keeps loving happening.

Like, whatever, who gives a poo poo, youtube clout means more than walking the walk when it comes to support of marginalized group. It's super easy to make a video about nonbinary people's dignity and monetize it but when it comes to maybe just saying 'yep she hosed up there' and not getting on a loving cross over it that's too much effort to ask. No one's 'isolating' Contra or whatever but the convo has to be centered around that complete non-issue instead of what happened because despite this martyr act she and her friends are actually the ones with the platform who reach people.
yeah, like, 'how many times does she need to clarify her positions on nb people' presumably as many times as she keeps making weird unforced errors about them?

nobody forced her to make a lovely tweet blaming them for dumb poo poo cis people do, nobody forced her to collab with buck angel. those are things she did herself. ellis's entire point is that you don't know youtubers, which is true, so why is contrapoints owed faith that she isnt lovely about nb people?

people expecting her friends to stop talking to her are morons poisoning the well but that doesnt justify acting like people are somehow not giving contrapoints the good faith she's owed for thinking its lovely to associate with buck angel

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


speaking of nonbinary people and shonen action manga, nabari no ou is cool, fairly short at only 14 volumes, and by a nonbinary author. it digs into that stuff a bit but its also just a decent manga with some cool characters, i recommend it

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

The so-called trans "community" (which, lol, isn't by any definition a community) on twitter is a snake pit of useful idiots and actual psychopaths that uses an extremely thin veneer of uwu acceptance to peddle the worst kind of telephone-game Mean Girls horseshit I've ever seen. It has absolutely driven people to the edge of suicide, probably ruined a couple lives, and the big names in it are constantly rotating as voices gain prominence and then get cancel-harassed into leaving social media.

This is the group Lindsay is talking about and it absolutely deserves scorn.
you can remove the first 13 words of this

and associating all criticism with it is bad, which imo the whole 'how many times does she need to explain herself' thing does. by virtue of how that's phrased it implies that nobody should be criticizing her for the buck angel thing because she's somehow made her stance clear, but the entire reason this is blowing up is because people don't trust that stance. not just the community you're talking about, but just normal people who are kinda hurt by the association with angel. and her entire point is that youtubers aren't people you know and you shouldn't devote any like, trust or emotional investment to them. so why is she owed that faith

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Would you really do half as well as contrapoints if you lived her life? I would not. I probably would have reacted much worse to almost everything from the start of the channel.
I mean, I probably wouldn't have a shithead in my video, that I know is a shithead, for the vague purpose of a video to be revealed later?

Like I'm not asking her to be a perfect person, I just don't think 'if you do not agree with a prominent guy's very prominent political positions, either do not have him in your video or go 'oh, my bad' if you do put him in a video.' Otherwise people will associate you with that person. If she does not want to be associated with that guy, then don't associate with him? I don't think these are like, unreasonable asks or holding her to an impossible standard. It's a pretty normal standard. You have a big audience, you put someone in front of that audience and pointed out that you put him in front of that audience, people reacted to you putting him in front of that audience.

People escalating it to the level of mass DMing her friends are stupid, mind.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


VictualSquid posted:

It is the twitter trolley problem.

You can apologize for something your friend did and make the 10 honest people in the hate mob feel better. But when you do that you give validation to the 1000s of assholes who take it as permission to attack all your friends and family.
literally just 'fyi buck angel sucks' would probably not validate the latter group but itd make the former group feel better. you dont need to make this more complicated than it is. there are two groups here, people who have a weird grudge against contrapoints and people who are mad she worked with buck angel. the way you navigate that is by going 'yea working with buck angel was probably a bit of a bad call eh' without disowning or actually harming contrapoints. thats it really. and ellis's post says that and then just... keeps going in a way that just adds on a bunch of questionable poo poo

and the idea that the way contra gets to justify it is by putting out more #content instead of just going 'yeah my bad' is gross. it just makes the entire thing feel like a pr stunt. like im sure it wouldnt satisfy some people but i guarantee this entire thing would have blown over by now is if shed just say 'buck angel is a shithead' and not 'do i hate nonbinary people? find out on the next exciting episode of dragon ball z!'

Endorph fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Oct 20, 2019

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


some dubs are good and some dubs are bad

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Junpei Hyde posted:

im sorry we dont do centrism in this thread
then explain half the youtubers that get linked in here

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


BENGHAZI 2 posted:

Ehhhhhhh it starts out good but by the time I got distracted and wandered away, when Nen or whatever first showed up I was already getting tired of it

The first arc or so, when they're just on that forced march, is really good because it's a shonen fight arc but not
heavens' arena is really bland but yorknew is a great arc because it's also a shonen fight arc but not, it's a crime drama with double crosses and a weird game of cat and mouse where the villains and protagonists not even knowing each other's names and faces is a major plot point and lasts for like 80% of the arc

and it has one of the best gags in anime:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCTjiNMedng#t=23s

greed island is kinda dull tho

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Endorph posted:

heavens' arena is really bland but yorknew is a great arc because it's also a shonen fight arc but not, it's a crime drama with double crosses and a weird game of cat and mouse where the villains and protagonists not even knowing each other's names and faces is a major plot point and lasts for like 80% of the arc

and it has one of the best gags in anime:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCTjiNMedng#t=23s

greed island is kinda dull tho

lol the windows movie maker FAIL when the punchline hits actually kinda adds to it

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


VictualSquid posted:

Literally nobody disagrees with the statement that contrapoints has jumped the shark and that buck angel sucks.

So when someone says : That dude sucks, but your demands imply problematic normalization of traditional hate group tactics that have hurt real people.

Then you can either accept it or admit that you were always interested in normalizing the concept of communal responsibility.
how does expecting contrapoints to go 'yeah buck angel sucks' and not 'find out next issue, true believers!' normalize traditional hate group tactics? im not saying her friends should disown her or that she should be depersoned or whatever, just that using this as an ad for her next video is a lovely thing to do. ellis's statement leans into 'have faith and watch the next video' which is my issue, not her continuing to be friends with contra.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


VictualSquid posted:

No contra, Ellis. Contra can suck it.
oh, yeah. I had to edit that in when I realized you meant her.

My issue with Ellis's statement isn't that she's still friends with contra or that she addresses people demanding she stop being friends with her as weirdos, it's the conflict between 'how many times does contra need to explain her views on nb people, have faith and watch the next video' and 'you don't know youtubers, these are real people you have literally never talked to.' these two are just straight up incompatible, and I think they're kind of at the center of this. The people defending contra are simultaneously saying you don't know youtubers but also that you need to have faith in contra.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


the fact is any translation, even a faithful one, is fundamentally not the original work 'cause english and japanese are very different languages. even if characters are saying basically the same things in the same ways at the same time, words have a feel to them and theres just no way of directly translating the feel of words and phrases across languages. you can approximate but you're never going to get the exact thing the author was going for. to say nothing of instances where the author accidentally hits on a word or phrase that has a mood to it that the audience picks up on but the author didn't really intend, they just put it in without thinking.

so with that in mind i think its better to be a little liberal with the specifics and aim for the same like, overall feeling the original author was going for, rather than focus on each individual thing and how best to directly translate it, because you're never really gonna do that.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Junpei Hyde posted:

you could also make arguments that, say, subtitles affect the visual presentation of a work or that something was made with specific voice actors in mind or whatever

yeah these are also factors, especially the voice actor thing. as a random example, sometimes you get gags about a voice actor's previous roles that just won't work in a dub unless you magically also cast the person who voiced that character in that other show's dub, if it even got one.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Arcsquad12 posted:

I'm thinking back to Raycevick's video on Ghost in the Shell video games. Near the end of the video he brings up a quote from Masamune about how the adaptations of GITS need to change to suit their various formats, be they manga, anime, OVAs, or films. I think that same idea can be applied across language barriers as well, where a story can be its best self for whatever format in which it is presented, language included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYqrVKiQVBg

The quote is somewhere near the end of the video but I'm too lazy to dig it up. Also, watch the video because it's good.
yeah, that's a good way of putting it. there's plenty of dubs or translations that do lateral work to improve the feel of it. like, baccano is an anime set in prohibition era america and the dub cast are all trying for accents, and while some of them land and some of them don't it definitely adds to the feel of the era. it's not something that was in the original, the characters weren't going for 1920s japan style language, but it's something that works very well in english and adds to it being the best it can be in english.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Antifa Turkeesian posted:

I have never seen an anime except I saw Akira on the sci-fi channel in 1994. Ive seen that and Vampire Hunter D. I want to talk anime.

watch porco rosso, thats a good movie

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