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Buane posted:Z3R is really at its racing best when a seed has multiple avenues of items which unlock others. Like hookshot leads to boots which lead to mitts, whereas separately cane leads to hammer, and separately book leads to bow - or something along those same lines. That way it's not just a matter of "Player X did this thing first and is now way ahead," but rather two players both coming out of separate decisions with different positives. I'm not a runner but I watch the tourneys and so far I don't enjoy watching 29 as much (although maybe part of it is that the matchups are less even at this stage). So far it seems like almost every seed is wide open almost from the start and then it's a hunt for two or three items that could be anywhere. That's fine sometimes but it's like EVERY time.
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Apr 20, 2018 23:21
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They patched the lamp out of v29 didn't they?
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Apr 20, 2018 23:21
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Really liked that backup strat on Kholdstare. Bow being in PoD really trolled the hell out of KariOhki, it was a close race for a very long time. Really nice job on Lanmolas2! Congrats on getting the sub 3! Nep-Nep fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 20, 2018 23:35
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Whew, that seed was...pretty normal until the end. I honestly knew that Bow had to be somewhere between Eastern and PoD judging on my opponent's finishing time. Was glad I'd had some practice with Bombs as the escape weapon, too, as much as I hate them. I agree that Lamp feels patched out of v29 sometimes, I always find it super late. Edit: Tired, forgot to say thank you for your support! KariOhki fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 02:05
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Nep-Nep posted:They patched the lamp out of v29 didn't they? I'd believe it, I've had something like 3 or 4 lampless runs this week.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:05
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Modus Pwnens posted:I'm not a runner but I watch the tourneys and so far I don't enjoy watching 29 as much (although maybe part of it is that the matchups are less even at this stage). So far it seems like almost every seed is wide open almost from the start and then it's a hunt for two or three items that could be anywhere. That's fine sometimes but it's like EVERY time. A lot of runners aren't really enjoying v29. There is a pretty demonstrable priority on non-dungeon locations, and like you said there's often a ton of value early that opens up a lot of options and you just cross your fingers and hope you choose the right dungeon to find your go-mode in on the first or second try instead of the fifth. Add in the new standard mode, where the uncle is often giving you a very nice and possibly trolly progression item, and you have a LOT of sub 1:30 seeds out there compared to older versions. The big pain point is that this is exactly the opposite of v28, which was extremely dungeon-centric. So people who heavily raced previous versions feel particularly more whiplash. This is actually a really good thing if you're a new player getting into the game! v29 is much more friendly than v28, since you're often encouraged to explore as much overworld as you can collecting your progression items, and then dive dungeons only once your options start to dwindle. This means on average you're better equipped, more comfortable, and less likely to smack headfirst into negative feedback. As opposed to v28 which often rewarded diving dungeons at the earliest possible times, whether you were undergeared or low on hearts or swordless or whatever.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:40
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onesixtwo posted:Crossposting from the speedrun thread for a good watch recommendation: synthetik posted:The first hour of this beating desert with bombs and the cane is insane. Been watching this seed this morning. Holy poo poo, this has to be the cruelest start to Rando I've ever seen. only bombs, blue cane and boomerang as weapons, no pearl but you have mirror and gloves. good lord Seeds like this scare me from playing myself. Can we put this one in the OP as an example of how insanely hard Rando can get? The reason Rando is so interesting is all the routing decisions you have to make, and because it's played without knowing what your opponent is up to it's amusing to see both players slowly come to the conclusion they have to do something crazy...like Lanmolas with just bombs and blue cane. Question. At one point they try and super bunny into the Mire Shed. How do you pull that off? axeil fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 16:07
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axeil posted:Can we put this one in the OP as an example of how insanely hard Rando can get? I already did! That match was a real standout for sure. Oyster's match coming up in less than an hour. Gonna be cheering him on. I'll throw a multitwitch link when I can, seems no restream for this one. I don't know his opponent's twitch stream address so I'll get the link up when I find out.
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Apr 21, 2018 16:20
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lewd vs OPT, yet another laser bridge go mode 
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Apr 21, 2018 16:32
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Nep-Nep posted:I already did! That match was a real standout for sure. Oh thanks! Well I went off and got rando. Any recommendations for options for a first-timer? This is what I did:  Easy mode seems like it would teach me bad habits along with guaranteeing a sword from your Uncle. Is "no glitches" still going to require things like Super Bunny, Fake Flippers, etc. Also, should I have picked "Timed Race" or do I still get a timer? Finally, what's SRAM trace do? I turned it on because it seemed like it might help if I get stuck but I can't find any documentation for it. edit: what's a good tracker if I'm not streaming and just playing on my own for fun? The resources don't seem to explain much about differences. axeil fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 16:42
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Nep-Nep posted:I already did! That match was a real standout for sure. I've been looking for this twitch too, and I submitted it to begin with :\ Sorry can't be more help, in the setup process and all. Edit: Twitch.tv/Caladryus DMing is a good way to get it! Edit Edit: http://multitwitch.tv/OysterSA/Caladryus Oyster fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 16:48
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axeil posted:Oh thanks! Easy mode is a totally fine way to play if it really is your first time. It just gives you two chances to get 1/2 magic and gives you 1/4 magic if you find both, gives you 3 chances to find Lamp, and gives you unlimited ammo for whatever the escape item is until escape ends. If you're gonna be competitive it's true you shouldn't get used to that but it doesn't make the game baby you or anything. Timed Race is a special mode that has a timer displayed at all times and clocks in the world that subtract time from your timer. SRAM trace adds that hud some races have that shows your inputs. Easy mode is fine, but normal mode is also fine. You'll be okay playing on the setup you chose.
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Apr 21, 2018 16:54
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Nep-Nep posted:Easy mode is a totally fine way to play if it really is your first time. It just gives you two chances to get 1/2 magic and gives you 1/4 magic if you find both, gives you 3 chances to find Lamp, and gives you unlimited ammo for whatever the escape item is until escape ends. If you're gonna be competitive it's true you shouldn't get used to that but it doesn't make the game baby you or anything. Awesome thanks! Any recommendations on a tracker to use/tutorial on how to use it? Also, what's a baseline time to aim for? I figure anything under 3 hours for my first time is pretty good.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:00
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axeil posted:Awesome thanks! Any recommendations on a tracker to use/tutorial on how to use it? I wouldn't know about the trackers. I only use one to mimic my menu appearance, maybe someone else can recommend there. For time I would say don't sweat it your first time and just get a feel for how it goes, and then try to get sub-3 later, then once you do that push towards sub-2.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:04
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Neither Oyster nor opponent got a bomb drop during escape so they'll have to go back.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:09
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Nep-Nep posted:I wouldn't know about the trackers. I only use one to mimic my menu appearance, maybe someone else can recommend there. Thanks  I played normal Link to the Past a ton as a kid so I'm pretty confident in my ability to execute and route but I'm gonna be in the dark  on the trickier things like glitches, beating bosses without swords and dark room navigation.Someone mentioned there was a practice ROM out there? How's that work?
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Apr 21, 2018 17:11
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Who's on bottom and who's on top in your restream? I just started watching
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Apr 21, 2018 17:11
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timp posted:Who's on bottom and who's on top in your restream? I just started watching Oyster is playing as megaman
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Apr 21, 2018 17:12
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That must have been frustrating to buy bombs for 50 rupees and then get them in a chest after bombing a wall, and then go to merchant and pay 100 for some more
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Apr 21, 2018 17:12
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timp posted:That must have been frustrating to buy bombs for 50 rupees and then get them in a chest after bombing a wall, and then go to merchant and pay 100 for some more Better that than to have the merchant give a single rupee! Good that, Oyster remembered to go back for the 3 chests in escape. Unfortunately it didn't pay off edit: Oyster's capture card froze?  Caladrius found hammer in DP, that's where dark world access is gonna be. No need for Aga1 this time. Nep-Nep fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 17:17
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Caladrius significantly ahead at the moment but went to skull woods despite no sword yet. If he can't fight Mothula with hammer this might be a chance for Oyster to catch up. Looks like after getting hammer Oyster left DP instead of finishing like Caladrius did. That might pay off if he can revisit with boots later on.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:32
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This wasn't always the case but that south room in skull woods always contains the small key to escape it now so if you have a small key already there is no need to go there. edit: Nice bomb jump, and quite painless place to take a death since it's more a health refill there.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:35
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You need a sword to get to Mothula anyway.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:36
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Cattail Prophet posted:You need a sword to get to Mothula anyway. I forgot! There's a reason that's in my post-it notes of things I want to not forget while I play.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:39
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Oyster not using an item tracker is maddening for someone with a terrible memory (aka me)
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Apr 21, 2018 17:40
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I like Oyster's choice to go back to EP here. He probably has the idea that he fell behind due to Skull Woods and is going somewhere a little less obvious to try to catch an edge. I wonder if he will follow this with PoD.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:44
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Oh my goodness that Armos fight
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Apr 21, 2018 17:48
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Oyster could potentially gain some ground here. Caladrius didn't death warp back to the start of PoD like I thought they were setting up and now has low health. If they try to dark room they might get bumped by an enemy they can't see. edit: WOW PoD item set. Somaria, lamp and mirror all right there. Jeez. edit2: Caladrius died in the maze room anyway. That's good news for Oyster though! Nep-Nep fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 17:51
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Where did Caladrius get the sword? e: I feel bad that it's someone I'm rooting for but I always love when someone gets to a locked door they were expecting to have a key for but they're out, and they just completely stop moving for 5-10 seconds as they try to process it
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Apr 21, 2018 17:54
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axeil posted:Awesome thanks! Any recommendations on a tracker to use/tutorial on how to use it? I don't use any tracker, though also my best time is about 1:45 so maybe don't listen to me there. I am super familiar with Link to the Past and my first randomizer run was over four hours and most people are even longer. If you've been watching matches then you won't stumble around with things as much as most people, but you'll probably still spend a lot of time going, "Hmm... where do I go from here?" and you won't be very efficient with how you search.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:54
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IcePhoenix posted:Where did Caladrius get the sword? I know one was in hype cave, I didn't see the other one. Also boots in PoD too what the hell. Looks like it's just hookshot and maybe a medallion for go mode now? edit: The middle row of items being completely item while everything else is filled looks really weird. Nep-Nep fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 17:56
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Oyster with the bee strats!
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Apr 21, 2018 18:04
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Come on Oyster open the lamp chest before going in the dark maze.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:04
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Random Stranger posted:I don't use any tracker, though also my best time is about 1:45 so maybe don't listen to me there. Yeah, to add on to this I've only been playing rando since December and my first completed SRL time was 6:44:35. Yesterday I got a pretty god-like seed and managed to get a 1:45 for a 15-minute PB. I'm also in the tournament (as wessidevandal), but so far am 0-2. It just takes practice, like any speedrun does. Especially as the randomizer logic changes between versions. This wasn't specifically answered but unless you tell the randomizer to account for glitches the logic will never require you to perform said glitches. This holds true for dark rooms, fake flippering, super bunnying, etcedera. HOWEVER -- you should definitely learn at least the Eastern Palace dark rooms and the fake flipper, as if those are done properly they can pay off pretty handsomely. Another decent timesave is the Ice Palace Bomb Jump and that should also be a priority to learn. It should never be REQUIRED by logic, IIRC, but drat if it doesn't save time if you're just trying to kill Kholdstare for the crystal and GTFO.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:06
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Oyster briefly forgetting he found the mirror and almost s+qing... don't scare me like that!Grinnblade posted:Another decent timesave is the Ice Palace Bomb Jump and that should also be a priority to learn. It should never be REQUIRED by logic, IIRC, but drat if it doesn't save time if you're just trying to kill Kholdstare for the crystal and GTFO. This too and here's why- not only does it save time, but while the logic never requires this bomb jump, the logic can require the Cane of Somaria to finish Ice Palace by putting a small key on Kholdstare. Doing the bomb jump circumvents the need for the cane in those cases.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:07
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Here's a tracker that I've used before. Check what you have and it shows what you can clear, can't access, can't get but see, and what bosses you can kill. It also shows how many items are in a dungeon and you can check those as you get 'em.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:12
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Scrublord Prime posted:Here's a tracker that I've used before. Check what you have and it shows what you can clear, can't access, can't get but see, and what bosses you can kill. It also shows how many items are in a dungeon and you can check those as you get 'em. Daaaamn that is one hell of a tracker! Thanks for sharing; I've added it to the randoguide.com page of resources as well.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:20
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Please let quake be in the part of Ice Palace Calad didn't check.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:25
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Oyster is likely too far behind to win now but he can still put up a respectable finish! Go Oyster! At the top of the hour we have abraxas' second match as well at https://www.twitch.tv/ALTTPRandomizer. Good luck abraxas!
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Apr 21, 2018 18:49
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I think you have to be careful with that tracker though. I was messing around with it to see how well it picked up some of the esoteric things -- no pearl but titan's + flute to see if it opened up checkerboard cave. It also lit up mire shed, which isn't possible without pulling off a kind of annoying superbunny glitch. I'm also not exactly sure how good it is at determining dungeon access. I wanted to check what it would take to get IP to light up, and it ended up being mitts, pearl, sword + bombos (or fire rod/no sword), and flippers. I am a little confused on consistency here. You can do a superbunny revival glitch to get in without pearl, and you can do fake flippers to get into it. I know it accounts for fake flippers because zora and hobo show up without. Just be aware that this tracker is kind of doing some funky things.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:52
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