The Earlier Scripts of Transformers: The Movie (1986)

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Mr_Blue: Apr 4, 2015

Transformers: The Movie (the animated one from 1986) is quite possibly the most pivotal event in the history of the Transformers cartoon franchise. Casual fans may know it as the movie in which a lot of Transformers, including Optimus Prime, are killed and a lot of Transformers are introduced to take their place. Non-fans, including many contemporary movie reviewers, may know it as a two-hour toy commercial. Less casual fans may know it for introducing more enigmatic aspects of TF lore, including the Autobot Matrix of Leadership and Unicron. And the people like me, the ones posting on internet message boards about earlier scripts to this movie, may even be fascinated by the more peculiar characteristics of the final project.

For example, to give just one of many, there is a scene in which a number of the evil Decepticons, wounded in battle, are transformed into new beings by the planet-sized Unicron. "Scourge, the tracker, and his huntsmen, the Sweeps," as declared by Unicron, are created, and indeed these characters, who are all visibly identical, are main characters through the rest of the movie and subsequent TV series (or, at the very least, multiple Scourges remain present and the Sweeps are called for by name). However, also created in this scene are "Cyclonus, the warrior, and his Armada," characters also physically identical to one another. The Armada is never mentioned again.

And yet, there are scenes later on in which multiple Cyclonuses are present together and, if memory serves, later on a Cyclonus is struck down and destroyed when the Autobots are fleeing Autobot City. The key difference is that this was not (again, if memory serves) called for by the script and that what was depicted was done at the discretion of the animators. For those of you wondering why Thundercracker, Skywarp, and the Insecticons were seen at several points after their reformatting, along with other animation inconsistencies seen throughout the series, this was largely the reason.

But there was, either later on in the movie or in the subsequent TV multi-parter "Five Faces of Darkness" a part where the Insecticons were called on by the script. And this is because, to finally wrap around to the main point of this post, a number of different scripts written for a Transformers movie before we finally got the version that hit theaters. More details about these scripts (and links to the scripts themselves!) can be found here. The creation of the Armada was an element of an earlier script that was not properly excised, meaning that the final script was indeed an unintentional palimpsest. A number of rumors that have sprung up related to the movie can be explained by these changes. In the movie, Ultra Magnus is blown apart by laser-fire in a scene that is visually clunky because the "lasers" are fired in such a way that they actually resemble the energy ropes that were supposedly going to rip him to pieces before the scene was edited as best as possible to make it less violent. And, in fact, the earlier script from 1986 does depict Ultra Magnus being quartered.

The next known earliest script created the Quintessons and featured Optimus Prime discovering the origins of Cybertron. In this version, Cybertron was transformed (!) into a robot to fight Unicron. Many elements of this script would be incorporated into the aforementioned "Five Faces of Darkness" five-part episode series.

And then we have the Ron Friedman script which, when it was acquired in an auction several years ago, was like uncovering buried treasure for folks like me. The big takeaway from this one is that we all dodged a bullet; with maybe a handful of exceptions, its worse in every way compared to the final script. For those who think what we got was too violent, in this version Ratchet and Ironhide take such heavy fire that they are actually fused together (and then blown up). The name Unicron exists even in this version, although here that is just the name of the planet mode. The robot is called... Ingestor. Daniel apparently gets real offense in against Ingestor (!!!) and the whole thing is played far more for comedy. There are also Autobots known as "Ani-bots" who combine into the Dragon Beast. What's really interesting about this is that after the movie, both the Predacons and Sky Lynx would debut as Decepticons and an Autobot respectively, with the Ani-bots never actually being created or appearing. But both would often be depicted erroneously with badges of the wrong faction, i.e. the Predacons as Autobots and Sky Lynx as a Decepticon. The implication, since these errors happened with enough frequency, is that the animators were working off character models that directly depicted the "erroneous" insignias. The apparent conclusion is that the Predacons were based off of the Ani-bots after having been given a late alignment swap, and the animation errors were just some of the many that would show up in the cartoon thanks to people working with outdated information from the movie's developmental process.

But perhaps the most intriguing element from this entire script is that it makes clear that Transformers have "life sparks." What are possibly the two most famous plot points of Transformers that actually originate from outside the original G1 cartoon? I would say that one is that Cybertron (as Primus) and Unicron are linked (from the Marvel Comics series) and that the other is the concept of the spark from Beast Wars, which means that similar ideas appeared in unused G1 movie scripts!

And since this is all esoteric minutia anyway, Ron Friedman got the writing credit for TF:TM because of a deal that had been made even though the final script was dramatically rewritten from his version. This is very similar to who got the writing credit for G.I. Joe: The Movie, when the final script was dramatically different from the earlier version of... Ron Friedman. A connection between the movies no less amusing than when the planned death of Duke inspired the death of Optimus Prime, which triggered a backlash that resulted in Duke allegedly surviving in the final version. I say allegedly because the real writer of the movie that made it to theaters, Buzz Dixon, claims that only the audio suggests that he lives (i.e. watch it without sound and it's clear Duke dies) and in the Japanese dub he does in fact not survive.

All these things lead to other things and I could keep going forever, so I will stop here. If you want to keep looking the TF Wiki, the flyingomelette site, and searching some of the relevant terms above will let you learn more, if you care to. But I'm here because I don't know everything and I was actually hoping that someone reading this might have some information I've been searching for.

On the page about the scripts linked above and here again as well for convenience, there is brief talk of a "Very early script." The only details mentioned are that there was some kind of power plant battle and that this script was up for auction and apparently won by someone who did not make the details contained within public. I could find nothing else about this script on the internet so I reached out to the host of the website himself. I learned the few extra details that he knew: there was no time skip (so it was set in about 1985; as the scripts kept getting written the time got slowly pushed further into the future); there was a character named "Tankor" (!) who may have been a prototypical Ultra Magnus; the forum on which this was discussed seems to no longer exist; and this may have been the relevant auction.

That's all I have. If anyone has any other details about that script, other G1 esoterica, or perhaps even a correction if there is any sort of error in my own information, I hope that you will share it below.

# ? Apr 20, 2018 21:06

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 06:33

TrixRabbi: Aug 20, 2010; Time for a little robot chauvinism!

Wait the movie is two hours long!?!?!!?

# ? Apr 20, 2018 22:18

Caros: May 14, 2008

Weird thread, but I'm going to mention my favorite thing about this movie anyways.

In the theatrical release of the film, Spike says "Oh poo poo, what are we going to do now" when they fail to destroy Unicron. The reason for this, amusingly, was to force a PG rating on the film when it would have otherwise received a G. This is because at the time, G rated movies could not be played as often during the day as PG, PG-13 or R rated films.

In home releases on VHS, however, the line was removed so the movie could receive its G rating. It didn't show back up until the 2000 era DVD's of the film.

This is also, incidentally, the reason that Obi-wan hacked a guys arm off in Star Wars. Needed that blood to avoid a G.

# ? Apr 21, 2018 02:00

Narzack: Sep 15, 2008

I thought the Huntsman's name was Scorch. Is it Scourge in the written script?

# ? Apr 23, 2018 15:00

feedmyleg: Dec 25, 2004

I don't give a poo poo about Transformers and have never seen this movie, but I highly appreciate this sort of esoteric minutia and want to support more of it.

# ? Apr 23, 2018 19:36

BexGu: Jan 9, 2004; This fucking day....

TrixRabbi posted:

Wait the movie is two hours long!?!?!!?

There was a lot of toy lines that had to be closed off and new one shown with rocking heavy metal 80s music.

# ? Apr 23, 2018 19:58

Hat Thoughts: Jul 27, 2012

feedmyleg posted:

I don't give a poo poo about Transformers and have never seen this movie, but I highly appreciate this sort of esoteric minutia and want to support more of it.

# ? Apr 23, 2018 20:49

Schwarzwald: Jul 27, 2004; Don't Blink

Mr_Blue posted:

In the movie, Ultra Magnus is blown apart by laser-fire in a scene that is visually clunky because the "lasers" are fired in such a way that they actually resemble the energy ropes that were supposedly going to rip him to pieces before the scene was edited as best as possible to make it less violent. And, in fact, the earlier script from 1986 does depict Ultra Magnus being quartered.

I have known kids that, if this had been in the film, would have gleefully taken clothes line to their toys.

# ? Apr 23, 2018 22:17

SimonCat: Aug 12, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo; College Slice

You can't this thread without quoting this:

Terry van Feleday posted:

I said I was done, but then I realised I�d forgotten something. Something very important.

Extra: The Transformers: The Movie (1986)

I�ll be honest: I don�t like the G1 cartoon very much. I mean, we hold 80�s cartoons to different standards, but even making no false illusions about what I�d get going into it, I still wound up somewhat disappointed in, even annoyed by it. I guess my problem is that beyond the shoddy writing and terrible animation, I was promised that very special sense of unbound, bizarre fun that can only result from not a single person on the production team giving a gently caress.
The show itself is just not fun at all. The writers can throw around all the completely bonkers plot ideas they wanted, but they could never defeat the very fundamental crushing cynicism that pervades every second of its run. And I�m not talking about the whole �toy commercial� thing � which I feel a bit of a tedious talking point � I�m talking about the way the cartoon�s nature forces its structure. Every episode hasto begin and end on a rigid status quo broken up only by the introduction of new characters, every single episode (safe multi-parters) has to end with a big showdown between the Autobots and Decepticons, in which the former have to emerge victoriously for increasingly contrived reasons. The character cast is immeasurably bloated, and none of them can ever change or develop. It�s an enormous iron shackle cast around the writers� feet, and it quickly becomes clear that all the ancient Maya temples and mad scientists and women who love Powerglide and increasingly creative methods of power generation are ultimately just window dressing for the same story being told over and over and over. It�s tedious and grinding and repetitive and joyless.

_{Now, I would be remiss to mention that the first three episodes of the show, the More Than Meets The Eye pilot, is vastly superior than the rest of the show�s run, like it�s beyond comparison. It�s also one of the very few points in the entire franchise where I can actually buy the Autobots as an unconditional force for Good rather than a bunch of jerks committing increasingly heinous war crimes while babbling about freedom, even in the series where they�re supposed to be the good guys.}

Now imagine then, Hasbro walking up to Sunbow Productions (who then walked up to Marvel (who then walked up to Toei)) and saying �Yo, we�re going to make a new toy line, so you�ll have to murder the entire cast and replace them with some new guys. We�re giving you a movie budget and don�t give a crap how you do it, so go hog wild.�

Transformers 1986 is rad as hell.

Seriously, go watch it. It has serious flaws, but that�s one of the things that makes it infinitely endearing. The creators were confronted with the task of taking such a cruel premise and still making a fun and positive experience out of it, and by lord they ran with the idea. The most fascinating thing about the film is its handling of tone.

From the very first instant, something�s wrong. Nightmarish colours and harsh edges fill the screen as a violent star shines lightlessly on this thing floating silently through the darkness of space, its single beady eye-mouth flickering malevolently. Instead of starting on the cheery theme song, we�re met with a dark and heavy set of synth-strings that set an otherworldly and ominous tone.

As it carelessly travels past the camera, we realise the enormity of its scale: Every one of its spikes is an enormous tower, and entire populations could live on its surface. We also catch a glimpse of its insides: An arrangement of bizarre shapes, combining the organic and mechanical, moving. Breathing. It�s alive.

We zoom down to the planet in its sights, and see a full civilisation, going about their day. Men and women converse and engage in their work, children run around, frolicking. The music temporarily takes on a more cheery, �shopping centre� tone � but continues its ominous progression. Something is clearly wrong.

The planet begins to shake, and glass shatters. Ceilings fall. The sky turns red and people panic. Chaos has found this place.

And the man tells us the name of that chaos: �Unicron�.

And under a hideous light, he begins his feast.

A few try to flee, but it�s useless: They are just sucked back into the void.

The striped pattern on the left side is actually a shot of a ruined building from Fist of the North Star.

Acivity inside of him becomes frenetic as he begins to digest. Men, women, children, the entire planet and everything on it disappears into nothing, and as if with a final silent sigh, he continues on his path leaving not a speck of dust behind, as if the place never existed. Our childhood heroes? Nowhere to be seen.

This opening scene is brilliant. Imagine coming here straight from the original cartoon series. This is our new antagonist, but he�s not a shiny gun man gloating about world domination while twirling his robot moustache. This is something much more fundamentally evil. Unicron is not just a robot, or even a monster, he�s a state of being. He is death and chaos and the all-consuming desert. And wherever he goes, he brings not just literal destruction and burning skies and so on, but a much more abstract tonal shift as well: His presence here on the screen is a declaration of the alarming rate of death that is soon to follow.

The quality of the production itself is astounding, as well. Even beyond the movie-budget animation and such (Frank Welker only voices a quarter of the cast instead of half of them!), the direction itself is vastly better than I expected. The film�s soundtrack is mostly remembered for Stan Bush enthusiastically proclaiming that You Got The Touch, but it�s actually used really well, and Unicron�s theme in particular is used in some pretty subtle ways (its low-key foreboding itself creating a notable contrast to the high-power 80s ballads of the Autobots).

It�s only now that we get the opening titles (which happen to mention some guys called Eric Idle, Leonard Nimoy and Orson Welles), after which we shift scenes to Cybertron in the crazy far-future year of 2005. The original, red Ironhide (Peter Cullen) badly wants to retake the Decepticon-controlled planet, but heroic flat-nose truck-man Optimus Prime (also Peter Cullen) sternly orders him to go to earth instead.

During security checkups, we also meet Spike Witwicky, (~~Peter Cullen~~ Corey Burton) who fans of the cartoon might remember as... A teenager, actually. Beyond a manly jaw and spiffy mech-suit, the fifteen-year time skip has also left him married, with a son! This shows us a bit more clearly how much time actually passed since the Autobots originally crashed on earth, that not only all the robots have become older and more experienced (and ran entirely out of patience, in some cases), but an entire new generation of people has been born � this is the important part.

Unfortunately, Prime�s choice has dire consequences. Megatron (Frank Welker) has been listening in via Laserbeak, and decides to take over Ironhide�s shuttle and use it to get past Autobot City�s defences.
Megatron�s cartoon incarnation is incredibly inconsistent and demanded the most contrivances to make the format fit. Between his constant failures even in a position of superiority and his way of (not) dealing with the traitorous Starscream, the impression I took away from him was that he didn�t actually particularly want to win, but rather enjoyed conflict for its own sake. The movie decided to play him very differently, as a smug opportunist dripping with contempt for everyone and everything around him, mad and dangerous. It�s barely that he appears on screen that he already begins the slaughter. And oh yes, a slaughter it is.

IT BEGINS.

Ironhide, Ratchet, Brawn and Prowl all die miserably in the assault on the shuttle. It�s incredibly graphic, including a close-up of Prowl�s face as he vomits fire and life leaves his optics and undignified scrap clanking sounds as their bodies hit the ground. They made drat well sure no kid would come away with illusions over what�s happening here. Up to this point, it�s been pretty much unheard of for a Transformer to die � most TV shows before and since portrayed them as nigh indestructible. And here, it�s not just a couple minor characters that sacrifice themselves heroically or whatever. It�s war. People die meaninglessly, painfully, en masse. Saying it�s an extreme tonal shift is still understating it, really. In fact...

Named character death count: 4

Shift in both scene in tone to young Daniel Witwicky (David Mendenhall) and Hot Rod (Judd Nelson). Daniel�s just a kid who misses his dad, but the latter guy is our new main protagonist. Hot Rod is pretty much a collection of traits the creators thought 80s teenage kids would find relatable � he�s an impetous Cool Dude who likes riding in style and pissing off old folks and has a couple insecurities over his lack of experience. They also grieveously screwed up, since I find it much easier to relate to the Rodster objectively looking back at my childhood, where most kids of the time just hated him because they would blame him for what happens to Optimus down the road. Kids don�t have much eye for nuance.

Notice the difference in the background, in shape and colour. Not only are the lines a lot smoother and softer than the harsh mechanical angles of Cybertron or the shuttle, it�s also missing the oppressive, sickly yellow or purple lighting that�s been following us so far, and the colours are a lot less psychedelic. It�s a very pleasant sort of scene, and it�s worth remembering that it�s this context Hot Rod first appears in.

They drive off, and Stan Bush pipes up to tell him �You�ve Got The Future In Your Hands�. Because he�s young. Aaand that�s pretty much the film�s main theme.

As Hot Rod runs straight through a road barrier (something I�ve realised is pretty much a standard cinematographic image for dynamic young folks), Kup (Lionel Stander) here shouts after him. Kup exists pretty much to affirm Hot Rod�s youth by being a contrasting image of a really old guy ranting at kids on his lawn and regaling us with old war stories. He�s a pretty fun character, really.

One silly thing about this movie is the difference in visual detail between the characters designed for the movie and the holdovers from the cartoon. Just compare Hot Rod and Kup here to Devastator or the Dinobots � the former have perspective and physicality and stuff, where the latter look like putty people.

Looking up at the shuttle, Hot Rod notices the Decepticons and begins the light show. Notice how the view is now dominated by the harsh and mechanical landing platform instead of the peaceful mountains again, and how the colours are already shifting to a blue-tinted look. Unicron himself may be far away from earth, but his aura of destructive perversion is already lowering over Autobot City, though Stan Bush is still around to keep our spirits up.

Of course, as soon as the camera shifts towards the all-out assault on Autobot City, he falls silent, and is replaced with an instrumental track with a much more threatening progression. The battle begins.

We�re also introduced to Ultra Magnus (Robert Stack, the big guy), commander of Autobot City and second-most-important Autobot around, Arcee (Susan Blu, in pink), who is the only female Transformer in existence, Springer (Neil Ross, the green guy), brave knight and general straight man, Blurr (John Moschitta, blue), whose gimmick is that he talks real fast, and Perceptor (Paul Eiding, his back turned), overly verbose science guy. With Hot Rod, Daniel, Kup and the Dinobots these guys will form the fellowship for this movie. If you were to remove Blurr and the Dinobots, and maybe merge Magnus and Springer into a single character, we�d have a tight group with a good dynamic to carry us through the movie � as it is, there�s just a few too many. Oh well, toys.

Arcee and Springer activate the transformation sequence for Autobot City, which unfortunately doesn�t turn into a giant robot (that feature was added later), just into a fortress with lots of guns. The transformation sequence itself is heavy and mechanical, with lots of bulkheads and clanking noises, as a contrast to something later.

The battle rages for a while, starting fairly innocently with stuff like a cute sequence of a bunch of tiny cassette robots fighting each other past multiple time skips to us starting to see the first serious casualties: Here, Windcharger and Wheeljack (who didn�t even get a line in the film!)

Named character death count: 6

Notice how the sky and scenery turns an increasingly unpleasant shade of blood red. Debris, dirt and damage begin to accumulate: Chaos. At this point, the change in visual tone cannot be missed.

But morning arrives, and brings with it: Optimus Prime! (and the Dinobots.)

Along with the palette, the music track switches to a much lighter note as well. Hope has arrived to Autobot City.

And finally, we get the song. YOU GOT THE TOUCH! YOU GOT THE POWEEEERRRRRR! The film�s treatment of Prime is nothing short of reverential, and by himself he holds the power to totally change the tone of the picture again. He disables like seven Decepticons all by himself, and finally faces down Megatron. �One shall stand, one shall fall.�

It... Doesn�t go super well. The way this battle is staged characterises the combatants pretty well: Prime is clearly the physically far superior fighter, throwing around Megatron like a rag doll, but his opponent can keep up using his opportunism and trickery. Prime is strong, but also slow and lumbering and has an oddly long reaction time. Already you get the impression that something�s a bit off with him.

Finally, Prime downs Megatron and points a gun at him, but seems oddly hesitant to shoot (even though he calls Megatron�s bluff for mercy). Suddenly, The Touch cuts out in favour of a threatening instrumental, and the palette subtly begins to discolour again.

Megatron tries reaching for the gun, but Hot Rod jumps in to stop him. Unfortunately, this makes Optimus even more uncertain, and instead of diving for cover, he gets hit by Megatron�s shots as he easily wrestles off the young guy.

This scene is, unfortunately, why a lot of people ended up blaming Hot Rod for Prime�s death, disregarding that he�d have been hit either way. The cause for his demise is an entirely different one, and Hot Rod unjustly blaming himself for what happens is part of his character arc.

Prime is down, but with a final massive punch he manages to disable the gloating Megatron as well. In the end, they basically destroy each other, as is only appropriate. The Decepticons pick up their wounded and retreat, the battle lost but the damage done.

For the Autobots, it is hardly a victory. Optimus isn�t going to make it. �Do not grieve. Soon, I shall be one with the ~~force~~Matrix...� The Matrix of Leadership, an artefact that is passed among Autobot leaders, must now trade hands again: Optimus chooses to give it to Ultra Magnus, who has doubts about the whole thing �...Use the Matrix... To light our darkest hour.�

I really like the degree of mechanical detailing going on here. It really feels like something hidden under the armour plating, like he�s exposing his actual heart.

It drops from his lifeless hand, and falls into... Hot Rod�s.

And finally, colour fades from Prime�s body completely.

Named character death count: 7

The scene that would scar a thousand hapless children! But it�s also crucial to the film�s themes.
See, the thing about Optimus Prime? The film�s reverence for him is genuine: He�s a hero, he�s a legend, he�s the Autobots� greatest hope... But he�s also old. He�s slow and inflexible and makes a number of crucial lapses in judgement in a row, first unwittingly giving the Decepticons the opportunity to assault Autobot City, then confronting Megatron alone in the name of honour instead of staying with the others and helping deal with the main force. His choice of Ultra Magnus as the inheritor of the Matrix is also very telling, since we already know whose hands it will actually end up in (foreshadowing!).
You see, the Matrix, being there to light our darkest hour and call in The Touch at the push of a button, is, of course, Capital-H Hope. It�s Prime�s essence, all the things that make him heroic and great. Magnus is an understandable choice as military commander, being responsible, authoritative, disciplined and strong, but he�s also hesitant, full of self-doubt and actually too disciplined and there�s a lot of poo poo he just can�t deal with. It comes as a surprise to absolutely no one when he finally turns out unable to actually use the Matrix when it counts.

The simple fact is, Optimus was already losing his touch � and even without Megatron, it was eventually time for him to let go. Between that and Hot Rod, you can pretty much already see the film�s primary theme and idea.

Quick scene switch to Unicron, and we see his interior again, where we find out he�s basically omniscient. He�s pretty much one of Lovecraft�s Old Ones at this point, but instead of being emotionally unfathomable, he is quite capable of simple anger, as shown by the furious scream he lets out upon seeing the Matrix.

Nearby, Astrotrain complains he�s too heavy to ~~fly in space~~ accelerate. Starscream (Chris Latta)�s solution? Throw the wounded over board, they�re not going to complain (actually they are, but who cares). Among them: Megatron!
Immediately, a fight breaks out over who�s going to take over as leader. It shows pretty well how necessary his iron fist was to keep the rowdy Decepticons in check, and how he was pretty much the main thing that actually made them a credible threat. Without him, they are pretty much broken.

But of course, he�s not dead quite yet. But maybe, he�s met a worse fate: Meeting Unicron face to face.
This is one of my favourite scenes in all of Transformers. Unicron opens his eye-mouth and booming out comes the voice of Orson loving Welles, in his very final role. He hated it, of course. Funnily enough, his utter lack of care for the material actually works to the film�s benefit, as you can practically feel his contempt over words like �Ultra Magnus� and �the Matrix�. I�m not sure how much it�s his natural charisma and how much is sound technician trickery, but his voice comes out so incredibly clear and overbearing that it makes all other auditory impressions sound like anti-sound. Even his simple, courteous �Welcome, Megatron.� blinds Megs with its brilliant light and sends him flying into Unicron�s enormous mandible, which is enveloping him in a symbolic grip.
In fact, Unicron is incredibly calm, courteous and polite, yet passively condescending in his absolute superiority and just that little bit petty. "I have summoned you here for a purpose." �Nobody summons Megatron!� �Then it pleases me to be the first.� The creators pulled all the stops in making him feel purely powerful, and Welles� vocal performance is crazy considering how utterly little of a poo poo he gave. All drives and desires Unicron expresses are shallow, animalistic and nonsensical: He is basically what happens when a force of nature learns to talk and learns to hate, and it comes as no surprise that the only thing he fears is the Matrix of Leadership � or, in other words, love and goodness and so on. At this point, he�s basically demanding Megatron go and destroy the concept of hope. That�s pretty hardcore. But how is Megatron going to do that when he already failed, and now is heavily damaged?

Simple. By being recreated, as Galvatron (Leonard Nimoy).

The other damaged Decepticons are reborn as well. Megatron, Skywarp, Thundercracker, Shrapnel, Kickback and Bombshell are no more, leaving something entirely different. Notice how the mechanical boxiness has made way for smooth, organic shapes. There�s leathery wings, claws and horns. The Decepticons have become hell�s army.

Named character death count: 13 (symbolic, but they still count � it�s not like we�ll ever see their original personalities again.)

Galvatron differs from his predecessor quite significantly. The movie played up Megatron�s opportunistic cleverness to show it displaced completely by sheer, directionless anger and strength. It almost seems like a Buddhist allegory in which Optimus� enlightenment allows him to ascend to a higher plane of existence, where Megatron�s attachment to life and power sees him be reborn a demon. It�s an interesting thematic variation, but I have to admit the reborn Decepticons are one of my problems with this film, because it has to introduce all these new characters... But doesn�t seem entirely sure what to do with them. Scourge and Cyclonus don�t actually get to play a role at all here, and there is an actual, no-joke debate in the fandom over whether Cyclonus� �armada� even exists. Galvatron himself strangely only comes across as adequately pissed when interacting with other Decepticons or Unicron, and doesn�t seem to care about the Autobots at all � which actually works for him as a character, but also diminishes his threat. In fact, after Unicron�s amorphous malice and the way his presence affects the entire picture, returning to humanoid, even somewhat relatable antagonists seems like a bit of a step down. Which is not to say Galvatron doesn�t get some great scenes:

First thing he does in his new life? Go crash Starscream�s coronation as Decepticon Leader, and straight-up murder the guy. Just like that.

Named character death count: 14

Considering how much Megatron put up with from the Screamer, yet never seeing it fit to actually do something about him, there�s something deeply funny about Galvatron just disposing of him in three seconds flat, barely even dignifying him with a one-liner.

One neat touch is him crushing the crown underfoot afterwards. Considering the huge throne room lined by huge statues (probably former Decepticon leaders), it seems this ceremony is actually A Thing rather than just something Starscream cooked up � so here, Galvatron is actually showing contempt for the very institution of leadership. Decepticon society is very much built around the rule of the strongest, but he removes even the formal component of his strength�s affirmation, replacing it with an affirmation of his own mythology of exclusive rule (compare live-action Megatron�s �It will be me, it will always be me�). Note how he doesn�t even take command of the old Decepticons after this, preferring to stick with the new guys who are his slaves by design. Of course, this is all terribly at odds with his subservience to Unicron � which forms his primary character motivation for the film.

Bad news, Unicron has arrived at Cybertron. He immediately sinks his teeth into its moons, one of which hides a giant explosive, which Bumblebee detonates, hoping to destroy the monster (it barely stuns him).

The sight immediately ticks off Galvatron, who doesn�t exactly want Cybertron to be eaten. Unicron simply meets his protests by silently mentally torturing him until he yields. �We belong to him�, Scourge informs him helpfully. The thing I do actually really like about Galvatron is that there�s a tragedy to his character: It�s clear that accepting Unicron�s deal was a horrible mistake (although really, the alternative was death), and although he became more powerful than ever before, he�s also completely under Unicron�s control, and on the rare occasion that he actually tries to do something good, it... Doesn�t work out well for him.

On earth, our protagonists, previously busy rebuilding the destroyed Autobot city, now heed Jazz� and Spike�s calls and prepare to head to Cybertron, but are interrupted by the Decepticons. It comes to another battle, from which the Autobots barely escape.

Well, it takes some doing, because the Dinobots seem to have developed an odd fear of space flight. There�s an odd thing here where they transform into their silly dino modes and then aren�t seen in robot mode again until the very end of the movie, and until then act entirely as comic relief. It�s an odd tonal shift, and while it sort of sets up the rest of the movie, it also feels premature, like this comedic element is just transplanted into this otherwise grim situation without much concern for how it would work: Note how there�s no accompanying change in scenery and colouration as we saw earlier in the film. Unfortunately, after the very well constructed beginning, the movie becomes a lot sloppier from this point on.

The Decepticons pursue, and disable the ship Kup, Hot Rod and the Dinobots are on, causing them to crash land on a rather oddly shaped planet. Ultra Magnus and his crew manage to fake their deaths by blowing up most of their ship, losing the Decepticcons, but also having to land on another planet for repairs � a planet made entirely of junk.

Now this is where the real tonal shift takes place. Notice the radical departure in aesthetic � this is the precise point at which Transformers 1986 ceases to be a grim story of war and death and becomes a straight-up Flash Gordon style space adventure in which wisecracking heroes encounter increasingly strange planets and people and escape bizarre situations using quick moxie. It�s sudden and extreme enough to totally throw you out of the movie if you don�t know it�s coming, but works brilliantly once you do. As the focus shifts from the old crew to the new, young crew, the narrative itself takes on a lighter, more youthful tone. It�s dissonant, but it�s also this dissonance that the entire movie is built around: We can buy Hot Rod as the guy who�s going to Light Our Darkest Hour because, well, he pretty much carries lightness with him on a presentational level - contrasted with Unicron and his summoned apocalypse.

Anyway, he battles some mecha-fish, then saves Kup from a robot Kraken, re-attaching his detached arm and leg. Note the image of a robot being put together, as opposed to exploding into pieces.

Back with team Magnus, Daniel decides to help out with repairs by climbing into one of his dad�s exo-suits. We get a little scene in which Arcee has to teach him to walk in the thing, which is transparently framed as a (surrogate) mother teaching a baby to walk. It�s a little aside about his growing up, as he is quite literally climbing into his father�s boots, which itself parallels Hot Rod taking over for super-dad Optimus Prime later in the film.

Also, some words about Arcee: Being very much the woman, her role is to be a total maternal stereotype, similar to Prime�s paternal thing. It�s super-shallow and has a bit of that 80s-cartoon-misogynist streak, but what surprised me was how much she�s allowed to be part of the team dynamic. She sees more action than Ultra Magnus and is fully comfortable with a gun, and her caring touch works well within the context of the team. If she wasn�t the smurfette and there was at least one other female character with different traits, I probably wouldn�t find much about her inclusion here to criticise at all � it�s not like any of the guys is more particularly deep. The sad thing is that even with my struggling praise for the writers here, she�s still the best female Transformer the franchise would get until like 2012. Yeesh.

Unfortunately, the team�s junk theft has attracted the owners� attention: A herd of motorcycle men led by Eric Idle with a Genghis Khan �stache speaking via TV quotes. Sure!

Hot Rod and Kup also encounter a big ol� herd, this time of transforming crocodile robot men. I really enjoy that all of these alien species they encounter are robotic in nature � in a throwback to classic pulp Sci-Fi, it only makes sense for all the aliens to be rubber forehead Transformers.
Kup suggests communicating with them, using the �universal greeting� � commonly transliterated as �Bah-weep-Graaaaagnah wheep ni ni bong�. It goes about as well as you�d expect, and they are both captured.

And brought to trial before this guy, who declares people innocent and then sends them into a shark pit anyway. Seems to find that sort of thing rather funny.

Waiting for their sentence, they meet this guy, who introduces himself as Kranix (Norm Alden), the single survivor of the planet destroyed in the intro. After saying his two sentences, he�s promptly thrown to the sharks and dies.

Named character death count: 15, plus an entire species

Outside, the Dinobots encounter a particularly obnoxious little robot whose gimmick is that he speaks entirely in rhymes. He�s a completely superfluous addition to the movie and they shouldn�t even have bothered. Anyway, Kup and Hot Rod are thrown into the shark pit, but fight themselves free and begin kicking rear end, the Dinobots bust down the door, and then they all flee on one of their captors� ships.

Before Magnus� group and the Eric Idles can do anything about each other, Galvatron, kindly reminded by Unicron that his target yet lives, shows up to wreck house. Magnus risks himself to save the others, hoping that the Matrix can do something about Galvatron � but he can�t use it. He shows some resentment/disappointment over it refusing to cooperate � �Prime, you said the Matrix would light our darkest hour!�, which seems to indicate an attitude from the Matrix itself, like Magnus just doesn�t have the right mindset for it to help him. It�s not a tool or a weapon you can use tactically as he attempts to, but perhaps something that itself decides to use you.
Of course, what this results in is Magnus getting shot a bunch of times and loving exploding. For a little while, Galvatron and Unicron return the film�s tone to what it was before the Autobots� escape, and immediately characters start dying again.

Named character death count: 16

Even with the Decepticons gone, all that happens is that another fight breaks out. Except this time, hilariously, Weird Al is playing. The Junkions are a commune of motorcycle men who literally ride each other and although none of them can put up much of a fight against any Autobot, they just immediately repair any damage to themselves, threatening to overpower the protagonists through sheer suicidal tenacity. Then Hot Rod shows up in the stolen shuttle, and decides to try out that universal greeting one more time. Which leads to... This.

Not only is the fighting over and everyone suddenly friends, the Junkions straight up assemble Ultra Magnus back together, and he�s alive and fine again. After all that despair and so on, suddenly we can just undo death, because we Dare To be Stupid. It�s so beautifully bizarre.

Named character death count: Just 15 after all?

Everyone agrees to chase after Galvatron, who, of course, is on his way back to his master.

What he intends to do, is, of course, to overthrow him with the Matrix� power. And also of course, it doesn�t work out for him. It�s a nice touch that he lacks the chest cavity for the Matrix that Optimus and Magnus have and instead has to wear it on a chain around his neck. Magnus was pretty incompatible with the thing, but it is so fundamentally alien to Galvatron he can�t even integrate it into himself. Anyway, Unicron does not take this well, and takes out his anger on Cybertron.

Unicron�s transformation sequence is contrasted against Autobot City�s earlier in the film. Although he�s still a robot, the smoother movements and particular rhythm of small bits moving around suggest something much more organic, more alive. In this, however, it is also a sequence of significant depowerment: No longer a disembodied voice emanating from an amorphous shape cloaked in an atmosphere of destruction, the Matrix� presence, even unopened, turns him into something humanoid, expressive and vulnerable.

Also, the movie is a bit ambiguous about this, but the script makes it clear that in the ensuing fight, the character Shockwave dies.

Named character death count: 16

Unicron idly swallows Galvatron, then Hot Rod in his drill ship flies straight into Unicron�s eye. It�s an image rife with subtextual potential, but unfortunately the filmmakers just weren�t good enough to make much of it. Daniel also saves Spike, Bumblebee, Jazz and Cliffjumper from acidy death, meaning four minor characters actually survive!

Inside Unicron, Hot Rod gets separated from the others and falls from the bright-neon halls of his head into a colourless abyss, where he encounters Galvatron, who is initially cooperative, but Unicron �convinces� him otherwise, and he opens fire.

This fight stands in direct contrast to the Optimus vs. Megatron fight earlier in the film. Where before Optimus was the clearly superior warrior, here Galvatron clearly totally overpowers Hot Rod. The young guy, however, chooses a much different tactic, relying on his speed and spry hit and run manoeuvres to succeed. It almost doesn�t work out as Galvatron begins to crush his robot throat with his bare hands, but finally he reaches for the Matrix, and THE TOUCH ensues.

Hot Rod quite literally grows up and becomes Rodimus Prime, new leader of the Autobots. He straight-up throws Galvatron through the wall, uses the Matrix to explode Unicron from within (who seems downright pathetic at this instance) and finally declares the end of the C�bertronian War as the camera pans out over the wrecked planet, Unicron�s head now orbiting it in place of its moons. And that�s the movie! It�s all very silly.

Final named character death count: 17, which is somehow still a lot lower than I expected.

Now, the thing that draws me to the Transformers idea in general is that I think the image of a robot turning into a car or whatever is, in itself, quite fascinating. You have a single object that combines two distinct concepts and images and freely shifts between them � it�s a toy first and foremost, but on a critical level you also have this really distinct symbol of change and layers of being (notice how, in spite of sharing virtually no visual or thematic similarities, both the old movie and the new have themes of death and rebirth as personal change). It�s interesting just to see the differences in how TF2007 and TF1986 frame and interpret this idea: Where the former emphasizes the �robots in disguise� concept of a complex ideological being hiding behind the cover of a relatable cultural image, the latter focuses on the tonal fluidity of changing from one state to another. Autobot City literally and symbolically transforms from a place of fishing and social interaction to a vicious battleground. Unicron turns from an amorphous eldritch thing-that-eats into a big oafish robot who gets kicked in the butt by dinosaurs. This allows the movie to cover a remarkably diverse range of genres and approaches to the source material: Grim war story? Sure. Wacky, dynamic space adventure? Alright! Introspective character piece about a bad man�s encounter with a much more primal evil force? We can try. Three stooges comedy about dumb dino men? Well, if you really want... The film�s actual attempts at all those things feel pretty shallow, but it also casts a lot of potential seeds for storytelling. It�s like the filmmakers wanted to show that something could be both a cynical toy commercial and a totally sincere attempt at telling a good story.

The filmmakers cite Star Wars (1977) as their primary inspiration for the film, and it really shows. It almost feels like they wanted to emulate A New Hope�s attempts to create a more lasting space for its story on cinema screens, leading with a very basic hero�s journey showing the world and its concepts, introducing a number of thematic hooks that could be further explored in future releases. I�d have really liked to see Transformers: The Empire Strikes Back, but of course, we never got any such movie.
The simple fact is, TF1986 was a complete critical failure and hardly a financial success (making up for that by selling lots of toys, of course). Lacking Star Wars� strong editing team, it ended up riddled with a number of structural mistakes which make the deliberate tonal dissonances feel sloppy, and many critics cited the characters as weak (I guess making your cast consist of basic archetypes was already considered unfashionable). In the end, Hasbro dropped the idea of Transformers on the big screen, and returned to the safe investment of television, giving us a third season of the cartoon which is every bit as abominable as the other two (welcome to Carbombya!!).

The most fascinating thing is the return of Optimus Prime at the very end of the series. The movie, thematically, is entirely about children taking the place of their parents. Although its respect for Optimus Prime is absolutely genuine and the death of the old order portrayed as nothing short of apocalyptic, it�s also built on the encouragement for the young ones to keep going and build their own lives. So think for a second about what having Optimus return and take his place of leadership again signifies thematically. Yyyyyyeeah.

And really, that says pretty much everything. Instead of a sequel movie that may even have Galvatron win over the heroes, the franchise entered a cycle in which Optimus would enter a repeating state of death and revival, over and over and over again. For all his original heroism, he has become an undead avatar for everything wrong with the franchise: An unchanging archetypal bundle of �traditional� values, chaining all storytelling across many series robot to himself, forever. Rodimus wouldn�t get to be the leading man again until 2012 with the More Than Meets The Eye comic series (which, by the way, is very good, and begins with Optimus realising the world has Moved On from him). There�s this underlying frustration to the entire brand that current screenwriters are mostly trying their hardest to pretend doesn�t exist.

The sad part is that the 1986 movie is the most-quoted item in the franchise, but it�s all shallow citations of lines and scenes that completely forgo the meaning of the original. When Optimus Prime du jour mouths off �One shall stand, one shall fall� for the twentieth time, there is simply no longer that understanding that he will not be the one who stands. In failing to bring all the movie�s themes to a proper conclusion, they just fade and disappear into the void.
One of the reasons I think the new trilogy makes for such good Transformers films specifically is that intentionally or not, they show the full, terrifying implications of Optimus� continued existence. Effectively, it�s the failure of Transformers 1986 that built the conditions that let Transformers 2007 happen.

I�m still disappointed we didn�t get an equivalent to Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi. I want to see Rodimus and Galvatron properly conclude their character arks. Oh well, maybe one day, fingers crossed...

# ? Apr 24, 2018 01:54

Mr_Blue: Apr 4, 2015

Narzack posted:

I thought the Huntsman's name was Scorch. Is it Scourge in the written script?

He was always Scourge even back when he first appeared in the Friedman script, and no one was called a huntsman, Scourge's doppelg�ngers, who were always called Sweeps, were described as huntsmen. What changed between the scripts, interestingly enough, was something that came up in the lengthy review of the movie: the relevance of the large statues in the ceremony room. Those things are in fact memorials of fallen Deception leaders, but in the Friedman script the memorials had an extra element: the interred Life Sparks of those Decepticons. In that version, the badly-wounded Megatron wanted his own Life Spark to be put to rest in an urn but the quarreling Decepticons instead finish him off by accident. Megatron's Life Spark is knocked out into space, along with the Life Sparks of the old Decepticon leaders also dislodged by the fighting. It is these Life Sparks that, in the Friedman version, are reformatted into new robots by Unicron/Ingestor. In other words, the name and concept of Scourge predate his finalized former identity. Skywarp and Thundercracker, in this script, are conclusively killed and not reformatted into anyone.

Schwarzwald posted:

I have known kids that, if this had been in the film, would have gleefully taken clothes line to their toys.

This article discusses the movie's level of violence and has an embedded YouTube video of the storyboards of the unused Ultra Magnus quartering scene. It also mentions another scrapped scene containing greater violence than what we got, one in which virtually "the entire 84 product line" of Autobots is wiped out attempting a desperation charge.

That movie review is interesting with some minor points I could nitpick to death but sadly I think it treats the movie as more tightly-constructed than it really is. It is still riddled with errors despite being the high-point of animation in the whole series and is still a Frankenstein's monster of different scripts. These inconsistencies are why you'll have people to this day contesting members of that kill list, i.e. Brawn didn't die because a grazing shot couldn't have killed him when he survived much worse in the show + he appeared in one scene in the worst-animated episode of the entire series in the season after the movie.

# ? Apr 27, 2018 03:03

Vakal: May 11, 2008

Mr_Blue posted:

That movie review is interesting with some minor points I could nitpick to death but sadly I think it treats the movie as more tightly-constructed than it really is. It is still riddled with errors despite being the high-point of animation in the whole series and is still a Frankenstein's monster of different scripts. These inconsistencies are why you'll have people to this day contesting members of that kill list, i.e. Brawn didn't die because a grazing shot couldn't have killed him when he survived much worse in the show + he appeared in one scene in the worst-animated episode of the entire series in the season after the movie.

Yeah, as much as I enjoy the Transformer movie, I admit that I usually just watch up to the scene where Starscream gets blasted and then quit watching after that. Everything in the back half is just lacking compared to the first half.

That said I kind of enjoy watching the G.I.Joe movie more. It doesn't reach the high points that Transformers does, but it has a stronger ending sequence and the middle part doesn't seem to drag as much. I attribute the later entirely on Sgt Slaughter and the bizarre sequences with Roadblock and Coba Commander.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 00:56

Mr_Blue: Apr 4, 2015

Writing about the script where Skywarp and Thundercracker are conclusively killed, as opposed to the final version where they are effectively killed by being transformed into completely different beings, made me recall something that I saw a long time ago but was having a hard time finding: an official movie kill list. But I finally found it, something that I believe was part of the Heritage Auctions Friedman document treasure trove from several years back: the official Sunbow Productions Transformers Movie Characters and Outline document. A note on its eighth page reads as follows: "you can kill off the following robots: Gears, Huffer, Windcharger, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, Hound, Trailbreaker, Ironhide, Ratchet, Prowl, Brawn, Mirage, Wheeljack, Bluestreak, Thundercracker, Skywarp, and Shockwave."

Vakal posted:

Yeah, as much as I enjoy the Transformer movie, I admit that I usually just watch up to the scene where Starscream gets blasted and then quit watching after that. Everything in the back half is just lacking compared to the first half.

That said I kind of enjoy watching the G.I.Joe movie more. It doesn't reach the high points that Transformers does, but it has a stronger ending sequence and the middle part doesn't seem to drag as much. I attribute the later entirely on Sgt Slaughter and the bizarre sequences with Roadblock and Coba Commander.

There is just something dispiriting about watching a movie or TV episode when you are aware that the writer of said product is on the record either making clear his own lack of knowledge about the franchise or just his general disdain for it. Here is an article that talks about David Wise, who wrote more episodes of the original series than anyone else:

quote:

While writing "War Dawn," which tells the origin story of Autobot leader Optimus Prime, Wise worried that he would accidentally contradict something that had been written before. "The whole time I was sweating bullets," he says. "I was basically flying blind."

Then there is Donald Glut, who verbatim claimed that the writing on the show was not good and cranked out fast, that he didn't like any of the characters, and that he only did it for the money. He was also the writer for "Call of the Primitives," which established the G1 origins of Unicron and had arguably the most enigmatic animation decision in the history of the franchise, the rise of the Matrix from the corpse of the Primacron's Assistant.

As for G.I. Joe, Cobra-La was a placeholder name that Hasbro fell in love with and for which writer Buzz Dixon later apologized. Golobulus and other movie elements, despite surviving, never appeared in later episodes of the show. These are the sort of things which irritate me and my desire to have a smooth storytelling continuity in my cartoons. Retroactively treating them like high art is treating them like something they never were to their creators.

For what its worth, however, the Heritage Auctions stuff also contained documents relating to Friedman's work on G.I. Joe, so that is also out there for those who care.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 20:12

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

I love everything about this movie and am always happy to discuss all aspects of it. Especially the soundtrack. I watch this film at least once a year.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 22:06

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

Duke's brother was a huge slut.

# ? Apr 29, 2018 03:35

Vakal: May 11, 2008

ruddiger posted:

Duke's brother was a huge slut.

The character of Nemesis Enforcer basically ushered kids into what would become status-quo in the 90's. And seeing him getting utterly trounced by Sgt. Slaughter was one of the highlights of my childhood.

# ? Apr 29, 2018 05:54

raditts: Feb 21, 2001; The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.

The Touch just came up on my playlist and it makes the perfect background music for reading this thread.

Caros posted:

In the theatrical release of the film, Spike says "Oh poo poo, what are we going to do now" when they fail to destroy Unicron. The reason for this, amusingly, was to force a PG rating on the film when it would have otherwise received a G. This is because at the time, G rated movies could not be played as often during the day as PG, PG-13 or R rated films.

In home releases on VHS, however, the line was removed so the movie could receive its G rating. It didn't show back up until the 2000 era DVD's of the film

There must have been multiple versions, because I had the VHS version and that line was most definitely left in.

# ? Apr 29, 2018 07:15

SimonCat: Aug 12, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo; College Slice

ruddiger posted:

Duke's brother was a huge slut.

He was played by Don Johnson. What I loved about the GI Joe, A Real American Hero tv series is the constant references to the real world. Many of the characters talked about their service Vietnam, one episode features the 2 Marines, Gung-Ho and Leatherneck going on R&R in Bangkok and encountering "dust children," that is, children fathered by American GIs during the war.

Possibly the best episode was "Once upon a Joe," where the plot revolves around Cobra trying to steal the Macguffin Device, a plot device that makes a person's fantasies manifest as real things. It focuses around the character of Shipwreck, the Sailor Joe, telling kids about how he's the best Joe of all and once had an orgy with Scarlett, Lady Jay, and Cover Girl.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x54n442

# ? Apr 29, 2018 12:20

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Can't post for 7 hours!

Big Lob never got to make his move again.

# ? Apr 29, 2018 13:24

Narzack: Sep 15, 2008

I have this fuzzy memory of a sequel movie where the Autobots fight the head of Unicron and someone's foot gets stuck in some kind of goo. Is this real?

# ? Apr 30, 2018 01:38

Snowglobe of Doom: Mar 30, 2012; sucks to be right

Narzack posted:

I have this fuzzy memory of a sequel movie where the Autobots fight the head of Unicron and someone's foot gets stuck in some kind of goo. Is this real?

You might be thinking of the TV show?

quote:

The third season of The Transformers animated series continues Unicron's story where the movie left off, as the planet-eater's deactivated head settles into orbit around Cybertron. His head is visited by Cyclonus, who accesses the memory bank to discern the fate of Galvatron. Later, the ghost of the deceased Decepticon Starscream reactivates Unicron's head and enters into a bargain with him, performing three labors in exchange for the restoration of his body. Starscream (inhabiting and controlling Scourge's body) gathers for Unicron Metroplex's eyes (breaking one and replacing it with one from Trypticon) and Trypticon's transformation cog. He begins to connect his head to Cybertron, which would become Unicron's new body. Starscream demands that Unicron restore his own body so that he can complete the required connections. Once Unicron does so, Starscream double-crosses him, and refuses to finish the job. Unicron's head is subsequently blown off into space by an explosion instigated by the Autobots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicron#The_Transformers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYA0AypAZNs

Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Apr 30, 2018

# ? Apr 30, 2018 01:46

Snowman_McK: Jan 31, 2010

GI Joe was a really strange mix of cultural influences. On the one hand, it's 'interventionism is awesome' but Cobra is a domestic threat as often as not, represented by big business and pollution. I mean, as well as having a stupid rear end ninja squad in the 90s, the Joes also had the 'Eco-Warriors' who defended against pollution. At the same time, they also had the DEF (Drug Elimination Force), which was as reactionary as you'd expect.

A lot of shows from that era had a very clear point of view (Captain Planet or SWAT Cats, for instance) but GI Joe was all over the place, trying to represent a lot of different viewpoints.

# ? May 1, 2018 01:01

Big Bad Voodoo Lou: Jan 1, 2006

Snowman_McK posted:

GI Joe was a really strange mix of cultural influences. On the one hand, it's 'interventionism is awesome' but Cobra is a domestic threat as often as not, represented by big business and pollution. I mean, as well as having a stupid rear end ninja squad in the 90s, the Joes also had the 'Eco-Warriors' who defended against pollution. At the same time, they also had the DEF (Drug Elimination Force), which was as reactionary as you'd expect.

A lot of shows from that era had a very clear point of view (Captain Planet or SWAT Cats, for instance) but GI Joe was all over the place, trying to represent a lot of different viewpoints.

Plus it had two very different continuities going on simultaneously: the cartoon (aimed at a younger audience) and the somewhat more sophisticated Marvel comic series, written by G.I. Joe creator (and Vietnam veteran) Larry Hama.

# ? May 1, 2018 01:51

raditts: Feb 21, 2001; The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.

I liked how GI Joe Renegades updated Cobra to basically be Koch Industries.

# ? May 2, 2018 00:37

Attack on Princess: Dec 15, 2008; _{To yolo rolls! The cause and solution to all problems!}

Mr_Blue posted:

[...] In the movie, Ultra Magnus is blown apart by laser-fire in a scene that is visually clunky because the "lasers" are fired in such a way that they actually resemble the energy ropes that were supposedly going to rip him to pieces before the scene was edited as best as possible to make it less violent. And, in fact, the earlier script from 1986 does depict Ultra Magnus being quartered. [...]

Is Ultra Magnus pulled apart by energy ropes in the episodic version of the movie though? I swear I saw that scene somewhere as a kid, and it was disturbing. Maybe they did it in the comics...

I said come in! posted:

I love everything about this movie and am always happy to discuss all aspects of it. Especially the soundtrack. I watch this film at least once a year.

There's a Transformers cover band I want to point you at then. Mostly because of them performing in cosplay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGS1ETFT_1I

# ? Jun 4, 2018 23:31

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

The only Transformers-inspired music I heard post-TF was the Erie hardcore band Shockwave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3KPQ1kfPZM

# ? Jun 4, 2018 23:42

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Donnerberg posted:

Is Ultra Magnus pulled apart by energy ropes in the episodic version of the movie though? I swear I saw that scene somewhere as a kid, and it was disturbing. Maybe they did it in the comics...

There's a Transformers cover band I want to point you at then. Mostly because of them performing in cosplay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGS1ETFT_1I

I remember it from the comics

# ? Jun 5, 2018 01:05

Attack on Princess: Dec 15, 2008; _{To yolo rolls! The cause and solution to all problems!}

Davros1 posted:

I remember it from the comics

Cool. So they must have been working off of the final movie script instead of the actual movie then.

# ? Jun 5, 2018 07:02

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

I watched the Transformers movie on blu ray recently after not being a fan and wanting to see if there was any merit to all the fuss.

1) The movie is transparently about killing off the previous toy line to introduce a new one, and they admit this in the DVD special features. I kinda love how un-focused group 80's kids stuff is though. Not only do they die, they die with utter, traumatic finality.

2) The entire Nothing's Gonna Stand In Our Way sequence rules, and that song rules. It also rules that it's a cover from an exploitation movie done a couple of years earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dc1D8YHBg

The movie is OK. I didn't grow up on Transformers beyond having one toy, so it's not precisely my bag.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 21:48

SimonCat: Aug 12, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo; College Slice

dont even fink about it posted:

2) The entire Nothing's Gonna Stand In Our Way sequence rules, and that song rules. It also rules that it's a cover from an exploitation movie done a couple of years earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dc1D8YHBg

The movie is OK. I didn't grow up on Transformers beyond having one toy, so it's not precisely my bag.

Which exploitation movie featured this song first?

Edit: Found it, 1984's Savage Streets, starring Linda Blair.

SimonCat fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Jun 10, 2018

# ? Jun 10, 2018 04:00

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

SimonCat posted:

Which exploitation movie featured this song first?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrfE_5LmWx8

# ? Jun 10, 2018 04:31

SimonCat: Aug 12, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo; College Slice

dont even fink about it posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrfE_5LmWx8

Nice...

# ? Jun 10, 2018 04:38

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

yeah I watched Savage Streets ages ago not knowing, and I did a triple-take when that started playing

# ? Jun 11, 2018 01:15

side_burned: Nov 3, 2004; My mother is a fish.

A friend of my claims that Sunbow had a Jem and the Holgrams movie in per-production that got canned when the Transformer and GI Joe Movies under preformed. Can anyone confirm that?

She was livid for a week on Facebook after seeing the live action movie Jem movie that came out a few years ago. I do not like Michael Bay's Transformer movies but at least that involved Robots that transformed.

# ? Jun 11, 2018 07:03

Mr_Blue: Apr 4, 2015

side_burned posted:

A friend of my claims that Sunbow had a Jem and the Holgrams movie in per-production that got canned when the Transformer and GI Joe Movies under preformed. Can anyone confirm that?

She was livid for a week on Facebook after seeing the live action movie Jem movie that came out a few years ago. I do not like Michael Bay's Transformer movies but at least that involved Robots that transformed.

http://www.rockjem.com/mysteries.html

quote:

Christy was hired to write the script for a Jem movie. This was probably sometime around the Music Awards episodes, since the movie depended on the character Techrat who was introduced there. When Sunbow had just released their animated movie Transformers, Christy had worked out the almost six pages long outline for the Jem movie. But with the poor results of the Transformers and G.I. Joe movies, the plans for the Jem movie didn't get beyond that, a basic outline for a script.

This fansite looks pretty comprehensive and claims to be over twenty years old.

# ? Jun 12, 2018 21:25

SimonCat: Aug 12, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo; College Slice

side_burned posted:

A friend of my claims that Sunbow had a Jem and the Holgrams movie in per-production that got canned when the Transformer and GI Joe Movies under preformed. Can anyone confirm that?

She was livid for a week on Facebook after seeing the live action movie Jem movie that came out a few years ago. I do not like Michael Bay's Transformer movies but at least that involved Robots that transformed.

The only good thing in the Jem movie was the inter-credits scenes with Kei$ha as Pizzaz.

That said, it would have been funnier if it had been these Misfits:

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# ? Jun 14, 2018 01:17

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

One of Orson Welles� final interviews features him recalling in disbelief that he had been sent a script about �Japanese toys that do horrible things to each other.�

It would be great if he were not actually referencing Transformers but some other lost script.

# ? Jun 17, 2018 02:13

Blisster: Mar 10, 2010; What you are listening to are musicians performing psychedelic music under the influence of a mind altering chemical called...

I remember renting the Transformers movie from our local corner store/vhs rental place when I was pretty young.

The only part I remember (but vividly so) is some sort of Decepticon trial where the defendants plead innocent, but the judge screams "GUILTY" and dumps them into a moat of acid that also contains robot piranhas.

Did I just imagine this or is the movie actually that crazy?

I feel like I was young enough that this might have been the first time I was introduced to the idea of a trial. I remember asking my parents what guilty/innocent meant.

# ? Jun 17, 2018 11:38

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 06:33

Snowglobe of Doom: Mar 30, 2012; sucks to be right

Blisster posted:

I remember renting the Transformers movie from our local corner store/vhs rental place when I was pretty young.

The only part I remember (but vividly so) is some sort of Decepticon trial where the defendants plead innocent, but the judge screams "GUILTY" and dumps them into a moat of acid that also contains robot piranhas.

Did I just imagine this or is the movie actually that crazy?

I feel like I was young enough that this might have been the first time I was introduced to the idea of a trial. I remember asking my parents what guilty/innocent meant.

It was even crazier, they judged him as being innocent but dumped him in the sharkticon pit anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C687RBDfUx4&t=120s

Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Jun 17, 2018

# ? Jun 17, 2018 11:59

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > The Earlier Scripts of Transformers: The Movie (1986)