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Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



I feel bad for Alicia. She watched Travis get eviscerated by a bullet and take a swan dive out of a helicopter last season and then she just had to watch Nick die. I have a feeling we're about to get some good development for her.

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moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.

Dinosaur Gum

Her acting got wayyyy better in season 3

Swork
Sep 5, 2011

IT KEEPS HAPPENING
to be funny


Maybe Alicia will get to do something cool now.

or latch onto the new team and keep being a wallflower for everyone dying around her again.

Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



Her acting got better on FTWD after her character on The 100 got killed off. She was really great as Lexa, but I kind of wonder if it was distracting her from fitting into her role as Alicia. The characters are polar opposites of each other and I'm pretty sure she was filming back-to-back. That's probably why you don't see stuff like that more often - even if your schedules don't conflict (which for her it eventually did), it's probably a pain in the rear end to convincingly pull off two completely different ongoing roles. It's not unheard of, but rare.

EDIT: lol @ Nick and Lexa getting almost the same death

1994 Toyota Celica
Sep 11, 2008

Z E A L!





Acacia REI posted:

EDIT: lol @ Nick and Lexa getting almost the same death

the only ways that comparison could get closer is if nick was accidentally shot by Strand or Daniel while they were aiming at Luciana for some reason

Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



zeal posted:

the only ways that comparison could get closer is if nick was accidentally shot by Strand or Daniel while they were aiming at Luciana for some reason

ffffff right?

I remember making a similar comparison with Travis too, since he caught a stray bullet and died in front of her so the actor could go be in another franchise. But Nick's death was way more similar as far as actual composition goes.

The 100 put a curse on her

Acacia REI fucked around with this message at May 3, 2018 around 23:52

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"


Fun Shoe

I'm now caught up.

The second season through now have been excellent and made the last two TWD seasons look like poo poo.

I still love TWD though.

Edit : Is Travis a transplant from a loving Sartre novel or something? Jesus he got hosed. A lot.

Captain Log fucked around with this message at May 5, 2018 around 00:23

Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



Captain Log posted:

The second season through now have been excellent and made the last two TWD seasons look like poo poo.

The first season would have too if Robert Kirkman hadn't vetoed pretty much every idea the showrunner wanted to do until he was forced to just skip most of the actual downfall in a time jump.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Acacia REI posted:

The first season would have too if Robert Kirkman hadn't vetoed pretty much every idea the showrunner wanted to do until he was forced to just skip most of the actual downfall in a time jump.

Expand that thought...

Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



Rocksicles posted:

Expand that thought...

I don't remember which interviews they were because it's been a while since I read them, but in one, Erickson mentioned pitching several ideas to Kirkman on how season 1 would go, and Kirkman rejected all of them. In another interview, when asked about the 9 day time skip, he replied that the producers were pressuring him to speed up the story to get closer to when Rick wakes up in the timeline (despite AMC marketing the show as a slow-burn into the downfall of society). You can put two and two together and figure out that he was under pressure to speed the timeline along, but Kirkman was being a piss-baby about anything that might make actually make the show cool, so civilization ended off-screen and we got a weird family drama instead.

Maybe I'll try and hunt the articles down sometime.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Acacia REI posted:

I don't remember which interviews they were because it's been a while since I read them, but in one, Erickson mentioned pitching several ideas to Kirkman on how season 1 would go, and Kirkman rejected all of them. In another interview, when asked about the 9 day time skip, he replied that the producers were pressuring him to speed up the story to get closer to when Rick wakes up in the timeline (despite AMC marketing the show as a slow-burn into the downfall of society). You can put two and two together and figure out that he was under pressure to speed the timeline along, but Kirkman was being a piss-baby about anything that might make actually make the show cool, so civilization ended off-screen and we got a weird family drama instead.

Maybe I'll try and hunt the articles down sometime.

Cool stuff. Kirkman is a jerk. That's mathematically proven.

CrazyLoon
Aug 10, 2015

"..."


He definitely thinks far too highly of his IP. Like, you want to keep the mystery of how everything went wrong ooooo...considering the majority of what's happening later on is pretty scholcky, it just strikes me as pretentious. Especially when it hamstrings writers who'd probably explain it just fine or, heaven forbid, better than him.

Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



CrazyLoon posted:

He definitely thinks far too highly of his IP. Like, you want to keep the mystery of how everything went wrong ooooo...considering the majority of what's happening later on is pretty scholcky, it just strikes me as pretentious. Especially when it hamstrings writers who'd probably explain it just fine or, heaven forbid, better than him.

I'm almost certain that's what it boiled down to

Seems as though Kirkman liked the idea of doing a prequel/spinoff until he realized that it had the potential to be way cooler than the main show. And then there's AMC itself, which gave FTWD a fraction of the main show's budget & production time but still insisted that it was a "sibling series, not a spinoff." That gave people the idea that they could expect the same overall quality as TWD, which was coming out of its 5th season at the time and was at the height of its popularity. Honestly I feel genuinely bad for anyone who was involved in making the first two season (showrunner, actors, writers etc). The company kind of set them up to look incompetent.

Also there's a common misconception about the change in writers between seasons 2 and 3. A lot of people think the season 1 & 2 writers were fired, but they weren't. They all quit.

Okay now I actually do want to go back and try and find all the sources for this. I read most of them during the break between seasons 2 and 3 and don't remember the titles of the articles but it shouldn't take that long to track 'em down on Google. Maybe later if I have time.

Acacia REI fucked around with this message at May 6, 2018 around 16:03

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007

Let me sing you a song


Taco Defender

Will they show the traitor in the stadium today? Will they finally be done with all these half flashbacks to make us forget somehow someone made a swat vehicle with rotating machine guns?

JossiRossi
Jul 28, 2008

A little EQ, a touch of reverb, slap on some compression and there. That'll get your dickbutt jiggling.

Pillbug

It's me. The FTWD live watcher, instead of watching Westworld.

I really loved that the intro this time was standard def size and vhs glitched. I really like what they've been doing with the intros.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007

Let me sing you a song


Taco Defender

Why didn't they just go back the ranch? Maybe there was less zombies now and the place was full of guns and food?

JossiRossi
Jul 28, 2008

A little EQ, a touch of reverb, slap on some compression and there. That'll get your dickbutt jiggling.

Pillbug

I can't tell if my brain is broken from TWD or if the dialogue here is just actually way better. Like this script is still kind of overly dramatic, but at least people are talking in sentences that make sense instead of nonsensical monologues. Like, I actually care about what's going on and find the acting pretty compelling.

JustinMorgan
Apr 27, 2010


I don't understand what these guys outside are doing. It's not a siege because they're letting Madison's group come and go. They don't want to join the stadium group. They're just kind of tailgating out in the parking lot?

JossiRossi
Jul 28, 2008

A little EQ, a touch of reverb, slap on some compression and there. That'll get your dickbutt jiggling.

Pillbug

JustinMorgan posted:

I don't understand what these guys outside are doing. It's not a siege because they're letting Madison's group come and go. They don't want to join the stadium group. They're just kind of tailgating out in the parking lot?

They are waiting for the settlement to fail, then they will take the remaining supplies. While yes supplies are being used, something will run out first or some major failure will occur that leads to a collapse of the settlement, then the Vultures will strip the place of anything left. They don't need to rush. They also made life difficult by clearing out everything nearby as well, and poaching unscavenged sites by listening into the radios/observing.

It is kind of dumb in that yeah the main dude could just get a bullet to the head, but it seems pretty clear that doing so would turn the standoff hot, and definitely result in the stadium being actually sieged and everyone inside killed. While the main show makes this idea comical, but bullets are also a limited resource that its better to not use unless necessary.

CrazyLoon
Aug 10, 2015

"..."


It does make some sense also that the Vultures get the better of them precisely because of their knowledge that they're trying to be better people than the sort who just murder those that don't want to directly harm them, even if they will steal and take anything not nailed to the floor. Hell, the very start of it with the girl scout sets that up. Head Vulture's first words were: "Nope! You're good people, so you won't just turn violent unless we provoke you."

Anyway, looks like last ep's death p much convinced them to go again, so things ought to pick up once the flashbacks end. And yea, it's amazing how much more is conveyed with just a few well-chosen words than the endless blathering in the main show that advances the plot next to none.

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005
Oh, Jesus fuck. It's like the Nazis opened The Ark Of The Covenant, and I looked.


Poor John

What are the thoughts on the Laura/Naomi situation? I want to guess Naomi was Naomi and has Laura’s gun for some reason.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


CrazyLoon posted:

Head Vulture's first words were: "Nope! You're good people, so you won't just turn violent unless we provoke you."

Madison:

Shitenshi
Mar 12, 2013


CrazyLoon posted:

He definitely thinks far too highly of his IP. Like, you want to keep the mystery of how everything went wrong ooooo...considering the majority of what's happening later on is pretty scholcky, it just strikes me as pretentious. Especially when it hamstrings writers who'd probably explain it just fine or, heaven forbid, better than him.

From what I've heard, he and Darabont didn't gel well in the slightest. Yes, he thought he knew better than the director of Shawshank.

Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



feel like pure poo poo just wanna see madison shoot someone's face off

Nice to see the og characters in the Now timeline slipping back into their old ways again though. They are so blinded with blood lust that they looked genuinely surprised when asked if they were even going to bury Nick. Strand's like "thinks (he'll fit in that empty gun cache right?) "Uhh... yeah here"

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"


Fun Shoe

Acacia REI posted:

feel like pure poo poo just wanna see madison shoot someone's face off

Nice to see the og characters in the Now timeline slipping back into their old ways again though. They are so blinded with blood lust that they looked genuinely surprised when asked if they were even going to bury Nick. Strand's like "thinks (he'll fit in that empty gun cache right?) "Uhh... yeah here"

Ahahah thank God I'm not the only person that thought that.

CODChimera
Jan 29, 2009


Not the greatest.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


I dunno. I somehow still felt sad despite how aggressively they were overworking that montage towards the end.

Which, uh, didn't make a lot of sense. Did she interview them so they would each tell their story individually and then decide to recut them so she'd have something to cry to? Sure, lady, sure.

Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



CODChimera posted:

Not the greatest.
Yeah this was probably the weakest episode in a long time, but it wasn't a terrible episode. The dialog was a bit contrived at times and story dragged out a little, but it's nice to find out Strand is still a shady rear end in a top hat lmao.

Also I was really worried about how they were going to handle Alicia's character in this episode. I was like "oh god please don't make her like Sasha pls don't pls don't." I actually like that she's not a complete mess right now. She was clearly hysterical when it happened and I'm sure she cried plenty off-screen, but now she's all about that action. She'll mourn later. On TWD they would have had her been over-the-top melodramatic for the entire episode.

Spellman
May 31, 2011



The title intros to this show are beautiful, and I love how they're tied to the story or setting of the episode

I wonder if they're sticking to it because it's really fun from a design perspective

CrazyLoon
Aug 10, 2015

"..."


Acacia REI posted:

On TWD they would have had her been over-the-top melodramatic for the entire episode.

Well, one could hardly expect anything less from the show that started out with constant cries of: "CARRRRRRRRRRLLLLLL!"

In retrospect, that's likely a big part of what made seasons 4-5 of the main show my fav...ruthless Rick had a lot less melodrama to do. Or in Merle's words: "You cold as ice, Officer Friendly."

CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at May 7, 2018 around 15:00

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!



I dunno, I'm just not a fan of this playing around with timeline stuff. By revealing so much about the present/future timeline, it drains a lot of my interest in the past segments. I don't really care about them setting up the stadium or making bonds/relationships when we know it will go to poo poo. Also, wiping out the cliffhangers and story threads left over from last season still rubs me the wrong way. Is El Salvadad definitely off the show now?

Without a straightforward timeline to follow, I feel like the story is muddled.

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005
Oh, Jesus fuck. It's like the Nazis opened The Ark Of The Covenant, and I looked.


Acacia REI posted:

She was clearly hysterical when it happened and I'm sure she cried plenty off-screen, but now she's all about that action. She'll mourn later. On TWD they would have had her been over-the-top melodramatic for the entire episode.

Hahaha, I just passed the episode where Tyreese died, and Sasha turns into a raging rear end in a top hat. Maggie too sorta, but the worst was probably when Noah tried talking to her.

Noah: Your brother, he tried to help me. I don’t know if I’m gonna make it.
Sasha: then you won’t.

Like, drat Sasha, ice cold. Kid just found his mom and brother were brutally murdered and he had to stab his other brother that was responsible for biting Tyreese.

Though the Tyreese death episode has the funniest moment in the show for me. When they’re fighting off walkers to get back to the car, Rick passes Tyreese off to Noah asking him if he can hold him.

Noah: I got him.
*immediately drops Tyreese*

E:

JazzFlight posted:

Is El Salvadad definitely off the show now?

Ruben Blades is a hugely popular Salsa musician, so his schedule is kind of preventative.

Dunno if you want to be spoiled, but Chambliss gave an interview saying that he’s definitely alive.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.tvgu...wheres-salazar/

LadyPictureShow fucked around with this message at May 7, 2018 around 15:20

CrazyLoon
Aug 10, 2015

"..."


^ That and Beth dying on the main show should've been red flags for me that it was all going to poo poo

Yeah, I agree on that somewhat too. I'm really hoping next ep or at most next 2 eps wrap up all the flashbacks, cause...they really are overdoing them somewhat now and with the present timeline giving you the results, it's also a bit of a bore. Of the flashbacks the poo poo I liked most was stuff like the zombie waterslides, weee...but yea, no reason you can't work that into something without flashback montages and poo poo.

Generic American
Mar 15, 2012

I love my Peng


I'm okay with the flashbacks so far, since they're at least doing some clever things with them to offset the fact that we know the stadium settlement fails and Nick, Alicia, Luciana, and Strand survive. Like how they tied it in with John's little quest, and the handling of Nick's death.

Or the fact that they're quite intentionally obscuring Madison's fate- whether she is going to die, got separated from them, or even had a sharp turn to complete her arc. They really seem to be playing up the "join us" angle with the Vultures, and it stuck out to me that Alicia's regret from this episode wasn't framed as "we should've left", but very specifically, "I should've talked my mom into leaving."

The gimmick could easily get old at some point if they pointlessly drag it out, but I'm still on-board. And it's still way better than the abomination that was the "leading walkers out of the quarry" episode from the main show.

Spellman
May 31, 2011



Episodes with gimmicks aren't necessarily bad, it's just when they reoccur too frequently and you start picking up that it's a pattern that it starts to bore

The journalist's motivation to record recounts from survivors is a fascinating way to tie together what happened between the time jump and now, and I'm really into it. I can keep track of these two concurrent stories (which are coming to a synchronous boil, the fate of them both to be concluded in the present timeline), because they take place in such different living circumstances

And the Vultures, as gross as they're being, I like the picture that's slowly being painted of them; an embittered group of survivors that witnessed failure again and again, and eventually embracing that civilization is destined to fall and they can capitalize on that fact

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005
Oh, Jesus fuck. It's like the Nazis opened The Ark Of The Covenant, and I looked.


Acacia REI posted:

Glenn's dumpster fakeout happened in the 3rd episode of season 6 and I always thought it would have been so much better if that had been his official death.

I'm sad af to lose the character, but I'm really happy with the way the did it.

Quoting this again because I got to these eps on background noise while I was packing up my bookshelf. The whole ‘Nicholas ‘redemption’ arc’ is just so wasted. He was a coward, got Noah killed, but Glenn was still willing to take a chance on him, and all he ended up accomplishing was cause dumpstergate. Maybe I was just bamboozled that he became something of a team player in the comics.

Also his son just disappeared from the show with no explanation, not even a throwaway line.

Also, I kind of want to know what the show in S4 would be with Troy still around. You bet he wouldn’t put up with the Vultures’ poo poo and wouldn’t think twice about capping the kid that offed his main bro.

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make


So the Vultures...are actually really fascinating to me, at the moment. It's easy to think that they're just straightforwardly evil...but if that's the case, there are at least two different ways they could take the settlement that are significantly easier than what they're doing now.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Instead of loudly announcing their presence on Episode 2, they could've just had Girl Scout disappear at some point, and tell them where the group would be scavenging. Set up an ambush in a forest or something (like what Negan did in the Season 6 finale), slaughter them all before they can even react, then march into the Arena.

2) Launch their 151 zombies against the Arena at a strategic time against the Arena; then surprise attack the group while they're busy with the zombies.

3) Lay seige to the Arena. Don't let anyone come in or out. If they know the crops will fail, then all they need to do is starve the group out. Seems to me that allowing them to come and go as they please is an added risk, no matter how well organized you otherwise are.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Instead, Mel (the head Vulture guy), makes a show for everyone in the Arena, strikes up a conversation with Madison, actually tries to explain his perspective and backstory to Madison, and offers them a chance to join up with them before the stadium falls. In the meantime, he explains that he's not going to actively harm them; he's just going to take everything they have once they inevitably leave the Arena, or die trying to maintain it.

At that point, I have to wonder if Madison's group actualy would be better off joining him (or hitting the road). He's clearly not a good person...but he doesn't seem to have the bloodlust that all of Walking Dead's own villains had. He doesn't seem to be cruel for the sake of being cruel, he's just ruthlessly pragmatic. He'd be smart enough to know that More People = Stronger Group; and he'll know the group has already formed a bond with Girl Scout.
Just give Madison some jibber-jabber about how "I'd do anything to protect my family", hug the Girl Scout affectionately, and take advantage of the fact that Madison herself had done terrible things for her children.

The only really cartoonishly vile thing he might've done is poison the crops...but then you'd have to ask how that benefits him. That means HE'D lose out on the crops they have, as well. And food shouldn't exactly be a plentiful resource.

Fionordequester fucked around with this message at May 7, 2018 around 22:05

Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



The main show is just not good at handling tragedy anymore. Back in the early seasons, everyone handled grief differently. Each experience was unique. Ever since Tyrese died, almost everyone who loses a loved one just turns into a snotty, petulant annoyance for several episodes or more. The only real exception I can think of is Rick losing Carl. He went from Murder-Rick to Super-Murder-Rick. Oh and Morgan, but that is a, uh... haha, you know what it is.

LadyPictureShow posted:

Quoting this again because I got to these eps on background noise while I was packing up my bookshelf. The whole ‘Nicholas ‘redemption’ arc’ is just so wasted. He was a coward, got Noah killed, but Glenn was still willing to take a chance on him, and all he ended up accomplishing was cause dumpstergate. Maybe I was just bamboozled that he became something of a team player in the comics.

If they wanted to do that scene so bad, I thought it would have been the perfect, hosed up twist to do what they did - set up what seemed like a redemption arch for Nicholas, only for it to backfire in the worst way and result not only in his own death, but Glenn's too.

Acacia REI
Oct 8, 2016



Fionordequester posted:

So the Vultures...are actually really fascinating to me, at the moment.
Same! Their tactics are predatory without being violent, which is actually, you know, really strategic in a post-apocalyptic setting when ammo and medical supplies would be limited. They seem to put a lot of critical thought into their approach. They pick a target, send in a spy to find out if they have weapons, how many, and how likely they are to be the 'shoot first' type, scout out everywhere surrounding that target to find out where they are getting their supplies before they even know they are being watched, S A B O T A G E, then they make their appearance and extend their "offer." If they had reason to believe Madison was the type of person to shoot first, they would have altered their tactics. They are indeed pretty interesting.

Acacia REI fucked around with this message at May 7, 2018 around 22:26

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JossiRossi
Jul 28, 2008

A little EQ, a touch of reverb, slap on some compression and there. That'll get your dickbutt jiggling.

Pillbug

Fionordequester posted:

The only really cartoonishly vile thing he might've done is poison the crops...but then you'd have to ask how that benefits him. That means HE'D lose out on the crops they have, as well. And food shouldn't exactly be a plentiful resource.

I'm not convinced he did this actually. It's possible yeah, but he could have just known about the weevil problem from girlspy. It may turn out that the Vultures do more than wait people out, and be a bit sneaky with their scavenging, but at least right now I'm not sure.

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