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Davros1 posted:When was the CM Punk one? Looks like he got votes in 2008 and 2011. (Did Triple H vote for him in '11?)
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May 2, 2018 16:41
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ChrisBTY posted:It's "Overrated" not "Overpushed" If you read the award description it is absolutely supposed to be "Most Overpushed", the answer is that WOR readers are marks.
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May 2, 2018 16:49
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MOST UNDERRATED I'll be honest, this is probably the least compelling of the categories still active. It basically boils down to "please push my favorite wrestlers" and some of the top entrants are downright laughable in retrospect. (hello, Dolph). Anyway, here we go.  COMPLETE YEAR-BY-YEAR RESULTS https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZwETjyE8ugO2aEiIWrKPJ74V_-EwAt-KwxmUs3VKVt8/edit#gid=0code:-- Oh look, it's our old friend on top again (cough) -- If you've ever watched NWA shows on the Network and thought "hey Brad Armstrong is pretty good, why didn't they do anything with him?" turns out you weren't alone! (the real answer is he had the charisma of a wet paper bag and that wasn't cutting it on a roster littered with GOAT promos, but hey, brother could work). -- Pour one out for Tyson Kidd, his tag team with Cesaro was too beautiful for this world  -- 20/20 hindsight and all, but what in God's name did people ever see in Al Snow? That's a serious question, every time I see him on retro shows he's one of the worst things on it. -- We all hate Dolph now and his votes made more sense at the time, but some of y'all need to come clean and admit when you used to like Jack Swagger. -- For a minute I was totally stumped on who the hell "Skip" was, the 1995 winner. Turns out it was Chris Candido as one half of The Bodydonnas in WWF. You're lying if you remember a single thing about The Bodydonnas other than Sunny being their manager. -- I had no idea people rated Yoshi Tatsu enough for him to be underrated at one point. -- Kevin Owens' 2015 (holding the NXT belt for ~6 months, beating John Cena on his first main roster match, winning IC title later in the year) was apparently "underrated" to some people. Uh, OK. (I know we got mad that Cena won the rematches but c'mon) Up Next: Tag Team of the Year Place your bets on how high the Bucks finish
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May 2, 2018 21:18
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Benne posted:-- We all hate Dolph now and his votes made more sense at the time, but some of y'all need to come clean and admit when you used to like Jack Swagger.
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May 2, 2018 21:49
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I liked jack swagger
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May 2, 2018 22:05
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Only a couple of years until Cesaro can claim the top spot!Benne posted:-- For a minute I was totally stumped on who the hell "Skip" was, the 1995 winner. Turns out it was Chris Candido as one half of The Bodydonnas in WWF. You're lying if you remember a single thing about The Bodydonnas other than Sunny being their manager. 
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May 2, 2018 22:18
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frankenfreak posted:He did a cool Frankensteiner, had an athletic in-ring style and definitely was a solid second best part of the Bodydonnas for me. Wow, someone was a big Dr Tom fan! (he looked pretty dumb with his fair shaved and bleached to be Zip)
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May 2, 2018 22:30
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Dolph Ziggler was always good?
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May 3, 2018 00:06
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I will stand by in that there were years where people kept voting for Cesaro where he didn't actually deserve to win Most Underrated
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May 3, 2018 01:11
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I assume the Steve Austin underrated votes came before 1996?
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May 3, 2018 01:33
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Benne posted:
Al Snow was legitimately great in SMW and was more or less buried immediately after SMW died and he went over to WWF.
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May 3, 2018 01:37
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Benne posted:
As I understand it, early Al Snow was supposedly doing a lot of innovative/cool-looking offense way back in the day and was pegged as a hot young up-and-comer. From his early '90s work, though, all I've seen is one or two WWF matches and a handful of Kitao Dojo appearances, so I can't say if that's legitimate or not. I used to like Jack Swagger back in WWECW, though in hindsight a lot of that was that I thought he had way more upside than he actually ended up showing. I thought he moved REALLY well for a man of his height and had a good look.
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May 3, 2018 02:45
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forkboy84 posted:Wow, someone was a big Dr Tom fan! (he looked pretty dumb with his fair shaved and bleached to be Zip) in hindsight I'm amazed they ever got him to go along with it in the first place. I did like him with Candido, but I also missed the Heavenly Bodies.
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May 3, 2018 02:46
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I mostly don't read punchsport pagoda for the wrestling, but I watch Raw regularly and have forever. When did the internet turn on Dolph? I love that guy. Every houseshow I've been to he has always been the best match on the card. I get it that he has been overdone and will never get anywhere (sorta like Sheamus, who is also great but pointless) but how is that different from, say, Christian, who I don't think people ever really turned on or got sick of?
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May 3, 2018 04:57
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I think it was for sure during the time the Authority was a thing and he was on John Cena's survivor series team. But like he was giving the exact same promos forever. The last time he was universally loved was probably when him AJ Lee and Big E were a thing.
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May 3, 2018 05:00
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I feel like his mini-feud with Harper during the time KFG brought up was when his fall began, then WWE started bringing in indie talent by the bucketload who could do everything Dolph could do and more while Dolph just stayed the same.
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May 3, 2018 05:04
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It also doesn't help when it was eventually revealed that his character's Whiny Big-Headed Dumbshit promos matched up with his real-life Whiny Big-Headed Dumbshit politics. Sometimes you can separate the two for a person but it sank Dolph's chances at connecting positively with me at least, for whatever it's worth
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May 3, 2018 05:11
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The Rusev feud was what really torpedoed his goodwill
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May 3, 2018 05:21
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looking at the spreadsheet (and Benne, thanks for this, it's rad)...achillesforever6 posted:I will stand by in that there were years where people kept voting for Cesaro where he didn't actually deserve to win Most Underrated Cesaro's ranking is entirely max points from 2013-2016 and 5 from last year, which is kind of amazing really. Though yeah, I'm with you in that 2016-2017 he's exactly where he should be on the card. Jerusalem posted:I assume the Steve Austin underrated votes came before 1996? 1995, where he was fired by WCW (lol) and hung out at ECW talking poo poo about being fired from WCW. Entirely pre-Ringmaster, even. D.N. Nation fucked around with this message at 05:26 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 05:21
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Lucasar posted:I mostly don't read punchsport pagoda for the wrestling, but I watch Raw regularly and have forever. When did the internet turn on Dolph? I love that guy. Every houseshow I've been to he has always been the best match on the card. I get it that he has been overdone and will never get anywhere (sorta like Sheamus, who is also great but pointless) but how is that different from, say, Christian, who I don't think people ever really turned on or got sick of? I can't remember exactly when it happened for me, but he basically went from a guy who worked real hard and kept getting the rug pulled out from under him to a guy who just seemed to consistently operate at exactly the same level month after month, year after year without ever adapting or changing up anything about himself. Bad booking has a lot to answer for, but I don't think it helps that in spite of all his promos about being the hardest working guy and the one who TRULY wants to shine, he comes across as just coasting along without ever even attempting to improve himself. The fact he STILL insists on using that Superkick into exhausted pin spot from that one HBK match without understanding the context of it all was probably the biggest alarm bell for me, this is a guy who for all his big talk still doesn't seem to actually understand the psychology of putting together a story in a ring. He just seems to emulate (often very well) different bits and pieces of other, better wrestlers without understanding what made that stuff work in the first place. That's excusable when you're new to wrestling or still figuring things out, but he has been doing this for a LOOOOOOOOONG time now.
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May 3, 2018 05:30
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I think the turning point of Dolph's career was when ADR concussed him. Never seemed the same after that. (Unless that was supposed to be a work, I don't know man) Dolph also had the thing where he was one of the best in the bad situation that was 2006-2011 WWE. But once they started opening their doors to indie talent and nXt became a thing he was exposed as just another overrated product of a middling to say the least developmental system.
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May 3, 2018 05:58
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During the draft they should’ve put Ziggler on Raw and Sami Zayn on Smackdown Ziggler would’ve been the whiny POS babyface that he was on Smackdown, but he would’ve been thrown around by Braun and Jericho and looked as poo poo as Sami did, whereas Sami would’ve had a great match with Dean Ambrose and a short IC reign upon beating Miz at No Mercy, and he’d look all the better for it and would ultimately define himself as a good wrestler on the main roster outside of Kevin Owens’ shadow I mean, we wouldn’t have had the Spirit Squad stuff, but Miz was a good wrestler at that point, so he and Ryan Ward would’ve found some way to make the second half of that feud work
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May 3, 2018 23:53
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Jerusalem posted:The fact he STILL insists on using that Superkick into exhausted pin spot from that one HBK match without understanding the context of it all was probably the biggest alarm bell for me, this is a guy who for all his big talk still doesn't seem to actually understand the psychology of putting together a story in a ring. He just seems to emulate (often very well) different bits and pieces of other, better wrestlers without understanding what made that stuff work in the first place. That's excusable when you're new to wrestling or still figuring things out, but he has been doing this for a LOOOOOOOOONG time now. Doplh Ziggler is the Cargo Cult version of a good wrestler. That makes so much sense.
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May 4, 2018 02:01
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To each his own, I guess. Because I don't watch much indie stuff (unless Japan counts?) I don't have the same pre-approval of the guys who get brought up from that world. Judged purely by what they have done as WWE guys I don't see how people can rate Zayn over Ziggler except in terms of personal preference. The same goes for guys like Cesaro, who have the occasional brilliant match (and I love the guy), but mostly just goes about doing their crazy athletic exhibitions with no real emotion. With Ziggler I at least get the sense that he LOVES being the HBK/Rick Rude/Mr. Perfect/Ric Flair tribute show midcarder that he is. Ziggler is a little further down his road of booking purgatory than Cesaro or Zayn, so I get being burned out on him, but not really the loathing he seems to attract here. I didn't mean to start a de-rail, but I figured this was as good a place to ask as any.
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May 5, 2018 00:44
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Regardless of if you're familiar with Sami Zayn's prior career or not, I think it's kinda crazy to lump him in with Ziggler as a performer. Sami is a genius at working at exactly the right pace for whatever his place on the card happens to be, and he doesn't do anything in his matches without a reason. Ziggler has a tendency to just throw things out at what feels like random intervals, and I'd argue he may have even regressed somewhat in the last couple of years as his motivation/desire seems to have declined. To be fair, any decrease in motivation can easily be blamed on WWE consistently dropping the ball with him and leaving him in booking purgatory.
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May 5, 2018 01:03
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There are a million obvious reasons why Sami is better than Dolph but instead of continuing this derail, let's move on. TAG TEAM OF THE YEAR This was ... an interesting category to track. Due to the simple nature of the business, where singles wrestling is almost always prioritized over tag teams, not many teams have much career longevity. There were a lot of one-off teams on this list, where guys teamed up, had their run for a year or two, then went their separate ways. Or if they're in WWE, they only exist to break up and then push the guy Vince is high on. It is what it is. Therefore, it's probably not a surprise that the teams at the top are the ones that stuck together for most, if not all, of their individual careers. And of course it's headlined by COMPLETE YEAR-BY-YEAR RESULTS https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dLlzQz3y6Lw7XIyCS_T_5KHSorDCdw4SL4CSontUlXM/edit?usp=sharingcode:-- It seems like everybody's cooled on the Briscoes in recent years, but their peak was still well-received enough to get third place. I definitely wasn't expecting them to place this high. -- The Road Warriors had some awful WWF runs (as Rarity is finding out right now), but people really liked their NWA work back in the day. -- Public Enemy having as many points as the Usos (and more than E&C) is just wrong. -- For a few years in the 2000s WWE was just pairing Big Show with anyone who would make a good punny tag team name (JeriShow, ShowMiz, etc.) If AJ Styles signed 10 years sooner I guarantee they would've made The Phenomenal Show a thing. -- Sydal/Ricochet would probably finish much higher if Matt didn't smoke his way out of Japan. They were pretty loving awesome at the time. -- I'm kinda shocked at how low the Rock and Rolls placed here. -- DIY had a beautiful thing going until that bald fuckface Ciampa ruined everything  Up Next: Best Non-Wrestler This one didn't get started until 1999, but plenty of room for intrigue! Benne fucked around with this message at 07:48 on May 5, 2018 |
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May 5, 2018 03:42
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If done today I think the All Japan tag teams would be ranked higher cause a lot of the 90's All Japan main event tags were just so good
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May 5, 2018 03:46
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Public Enemy came extremely close to beating Misawa and Kobashi in 95 which is extremely great.
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May 5, 2018 03:46
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Jerusalem posted:Regardless of if you're familiar with Sami Zayn's prior career or not, I think it's kinda crazy to lump him in with Ziggler as a performer. Sami is a genius at working at exactly the right pace for whatever his place on the card happens to be, and he doesn't do anything in his matches without a reason. Ziggler has a tendency to just throw things out at what feels like random intervals, and I'd argue he may have even regressed somewhat in the last couple of years as his motivation/desire seems to have declined. I think Ziggler throwing out showy poo poo at random intervals has a reason, and that reason is that it is his character to do so. I really think how much you invest in a wrestler colors how you interpret their actions, unless they are excellent characters or actors. I think Zayn and Ziggler are both hams, but if you love Ziggler you try to see his reasons in a match and if you love Zayn you try to see his reasons. I don't love Zayn, and so the genius you're mentioning doesn't stand out to me. Sorry for the derail, if it is annoying anybody.
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May 5, 2018 04:04
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Young Bucks having such a strong lead over Midnight Express boggles my mind.
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May 5, 2018 04:06
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Strong BJ being so high up on the list is kind of surprising.
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May 5, 2018 04:35
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Lucasar posted:To each his own, I guess. Because I don't watch much indie stuff (unless Japan counts?) I don't have the same pre-approval of the guys who get brought up from that world. Judged purely by what they have done as WWE guys I don't see how people can rate Zayn over Ziggler except in terms of personal preference. The same goes for guys like Cesaro, who have the occasional brilliant match (and I love the guy), but mostly just goes about doing their crazy athletic exhibitions with no real emotion. With Ziggler I at least get the sense that he LOVES being the HBK/Rick Rude/Mr. Perfect/Ric Flair tribute show midcarder that he is. Ziggler is a little further down his road of booking purgatory than Cesaro or Zayn, so I get being burned out on him, but not really the loathing he seems to attract here. I didn't mean to start a de-rail, but I figured this was as good a place to ask as any. It’s like this post was made intentionally to wound me
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May 5, 2018 05:01
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Jerusalem posted:Young Bucks having such a strong lead over Midnight Express boggles my mind. I'd be interested in seeing the breakdown between Eaton/Condrey and Eaton/Lane
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May 5, 2018 14:37
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Davros1 posted:I'd be interested in seeing the breakdown between Eaton/Condrey and Eaton/Lane Me too - Condrey/Eaton won Team of the Year in 86, and Eaton/Lane won in 87 and 88, so Eaton/Lane might have gotten more votes but of course, it's not really that simple.
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May 5, 2018 15:06
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Jason Sextro posted:Me too - Condrey/Eaton won Team of the Year in 86, and Eaton/Lane won in 87 and 88, so Eaton/Lane might have gotten more votes but of course, it's not really that simple. Also kind of curious if Condrey/Rose got a vote or two, seeing as they were AWA World Tag Team Champions for a spell before feuding with Eaton/Lane
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May 5, 2018 15:24
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No Hart Foundation? That's weird af.
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May 5, 2018 17:27
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Numero6 posted:No Hart Foundation? That's weird af. Agreed. Owen/Bulldog and The British Bulldogs are there, but not Bret and Anvil? What's up with that?
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May 5, 2018 18:49
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Even The High Flyers are there
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May 5, 2018 18:52
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Sandman McMahon posted:Agreed. Owen/Bulldog and The British Bulldogs are there, but not Bret and Anvil? What's up with that? They weren't nearly as good as the British Bulldogs in a period where there were dozens of great teams.
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May 5, 2018 19:11
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The Hart Foundation was an extremely okay to somewhat good team that stood out in WWE tags at the time cause after the Bulldogs they were the next best tag team. WWF Tag teams were way behind the NWA in pretty much every way
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May 5, 2018 19:28
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