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Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

i gotta pretty little mouth, underneath all the foamin'


Ubiquitous_ posted:

This episode had so many allusions to "The Yellow Wallpaper" short story. I loved it.

The AVClub reviewer got into that pretty heavily, it's worth a read:https://tv.avclub.com/the-handmaids...nsur-1825883435

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flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


PostNouveau posted:

The book ends where Season 1 ends.

No it absolutely does not. What could make you think th-

PostNouveau posted:

I haven't read the book

Oh.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




I mean, it kind of does if you don't count the epilogue.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die

Grimey Drawer

esperterra posted:

I mean, it kind of does if you don't count the epilogue.

Yeah I coulda sworn I read in a review that season 1 ended where the book ended.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




It ends with the Eyes coming to pick June up and Nick telling her to trust him, they're actually Mayday men. Then we skip to an epilogue some hundred years in the future where academics are discussing Gilead.

Been forever since I read it but p sure I'm not missing anything there.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


esperterra posted:

It ends with the Eyes coming to pick June up and Nick telling her to trust him, they're actually Mayday men. Then we skip to an epilogue some hundred years in the future where academics are discussing Gilead.

Been forever since I read it but p sure I'm not missing anything there.

Yeah that's accurate.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

~~~~~~K.I.D.S.~~~~~~

CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK!



Ugh that baby shower.

Popular Human
Jul 17, 2005

and if it's a lie, terrorists made me say it

IIRC Season 1 even ends with the same final line as the book (except for the epilogue).

BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009


Why does Waterford want to go to Canada? Is he planning to defect?

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

i gotta pretty little mouth, underneath all the foamin'


BattyKiara posted:

Why does Waterford want to go to Canada? Is he planning to defect?

I think it'd be more of a diplomatic trip, I really don't see him defecting. Gilead has been pretty drat good to him.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

...as much revenge as any man could possibly take.


I put off watching this episode for a while because I just wasn't sure I could care about Moss(and the viewer) getting tortured for an hour, and I wasn't. Every scene with Moss and Strahovski is just eyerolling. I don't know how many more episode I can take of these two having 45 second silently death staring each other.

The hope I had with her running away was that she would realize that she couldn't actually leave because a) she has a kid still in the country she isn't willing to abandon and b) someone has to keep fighting the system from the inside, so we'd see her "get out" but then go back in. She'd lose the child but end up back in the Handmaid system because she's fertile but this time as someone with support, more actively trying to break down the system. Where we are now hasn't evolved her character in any meaningful way. If you watched the first episode then skipped to the end of the third you'd be fine. It's the worst of a show when it just runs in a circle for a few episodes and then continue on the main plot. I'm fine with episodes that do some world building too but this was framed as June reclaiming her identity...and then it's gone again. Big whoop.

Also I agree with people here that the lower-middle class families not being broken up over fertility does lessen the distopic aspects of the show, though clearly they don't need a whole lot of pretense to break them up if they want to.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


I usually avoid trailers but the trailer for the next episode definitely put to rest any fears I had that returning June to the Waterfords was a bad idea. Man, things are gonna get good.

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

PaybackJack posted:

I put off watching this episode for a while because I just wasn't sure I could care about Moss(and the viewer) getting tortured for an hour, and I wasn't. Every scene with Moss and Strahovski is just eyerolling. I don't know how many more episode I can take of these two having 45 second silently death staring each other.

The hope I had with her running away was that she would realize that she couldn't actually leave because a) she has a kid still in the country she isn't willing to abandon and b) someone has to keep fighting the system from the inside, so we'd see her "get out" but then go back in. She'd lose the child but end up back in the Handmaid system because she's fertile but this time as someone with support, more actively trying to break down the system. Where we are now hasn't evolved her character in any meaningful way. If you watched the first episode then skipped to the end of the third you'd be fine. It's the worst of a show when it just runs in a circle for a few episodes and then continue on the main plot. I'm fine with episodes that do some world building too but this was framed as June reclaiming her identity...and then it's gone again. Big whoop.

Also I agree with people here that the lower-middle class families not being broken up over fertility does lessen the distopic aspects of the show, though clearly they don't need a whole lot of pretense to break them up if they want to.

It's almost as though the struggle to assert identity and resist authority as part of a forcibly subordinated group subjected to extreme power differentials and subordination is a difficult, start-stop process full of set backs, false hope, and false starts or something.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

~~~~~~K.I.D.S.~~~~~~

CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK!



precision posted:

I usually avoid trailers but the trailer for the next episode definitely put to rest any fears I had that returning June to the Waterfords was a bad idea. Man, things are gonna get good.

That's good to hear because that last episode almost made me want to jump ship. The show has earned enough good faith I'll keep watching for now, but it was just such a frustrating episode on so many levels.

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


Kanine posted:

yeah i wouldnt be surprised if the cliamx of the show's story is some kind of mayday revolution with some kind canadian/british/un military intervention

I keep wondering why this has never happened from some country as Gilead's society seems fairly disorganized in that there is an almost constant stream of defections and the Commanders seem like bumbling bureaucratic fools. Although Gilead appears to have a strong secret police presence its never been clear how strong their military is, but I imagine they must at the very least still have nuclear deterrents.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

Le Saboteur posted:

I keep wondering why this has never happened from some country as Gilead's society seems fairly disorganized in that there is an almost constant stream of defections and the Commanders seem like bumbling bureaucratic fools. Although Gilead appears to have a strong secret police presence its never been clear how strong their military is, but I imagine they must at the very least still have nuclear deterrents.

Last week's episode implies the Sons of Jacob definitely took control of actual military units relatively seamlessly (the "one week we were doing normal Army stuff, the next executing 'gender traitors'), so Gilead probably has a decent fraction of the USA's combined arms strength. Even 20% would be enough to make regime change a really costly and difficult prospect.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

If they stay true to the novel (which would make sense given how closely it's hewn so far) it won't end with a revolution or invasion, except as a far fast-forward, since the book's coda made it clear Gilead lasted a while (long enough to go through multiple cycles of purging generations of revolutionaries a la Lenin/Stalin/Khrushchev)

1994 Toyota Celica
Sep 11, 2008

Z E A L!





Le Saboteur posted:

I keep wondering why this has never happened from some country as Gilead's society seems fairly disorganized in that there is an almost constant stream of defections and the Commanders seem like bumbling bureaucratic fools. Although Gilead appears to have a strong secret police presence its never been clear how strong their military is, but I imagine they must at the very least still have nuclear deterrents.

who'd do the invading? france is the only western european state left with both nuclear weapons and a military worth speaking of, and even they needed american logistical support for the air war above Libya a few years ago.

if the fertility issues that helped the sons of jacob into power in america are worldwide, the remaining western capitalist nations will be far too busy keeping control over their domestic populations to ramp up for a north american crusade. russia's already undergoing population implosion in real life, and china would be dealing with the one-two punch of a population weighted towards the elderly by the One Child policy of decades past and the economic effects of losing their most significant export market

both the powers that might actually want to see the return of america as a capitalist empire and the powers that would want to make sure Gilead can never fully step into the US-shaped international power vacuum are too weak irl or would be made so by the events that created Gilead in the first place to do something about it, even if they were willing to brave nuclear war over the issue

Angrymantium
Jul 19, 2007
Resistant to everything

Fred Waterford mentioned something in season 1 about "Europe HAS to drop he sanctions or the Euro is going to collapse", and along with the episode about the Mexican diplomats suggests that foreign powers aren't worried so much about overthrowing Gilead as they are trying to bring them back to the economic status quo.


The stuff about UK/canadian military exercises along the border seems more like they're worried about Gilead trying to expand outside of the original US borders. If the colonies really are radioactive due to fallout from nuclear weapons, they might be worried about Gilead using them elsewhere.

Also I'd be less frustrated with the last episode if this show wasn't a week by week release. It felt very transitional, and would have been fine if I could just watch the next episode right away. drat you Hulu!

Angrymantium fucked around with this message at May 15, 2018 around 23:02

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


Angrymantium posted:

Fred Waterford mentioned something in season 1 about "Europe HAS to drop he sanctions or the Euro is going to collapse", and along with the episode about the Mexican diplomats suggests that foreign powers aren't worried so much about overthrowing Gilead as they are trying to bring them back to the economic status quo.

Also, as we saw with the Mexicans, the rest of the world doesn't necessarily know what's even happening in Gilead.

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


Is there a sense in the show of where the colonies are? Most of it is taking place in Massachusetts but I have no idea where the colonies are.

Also I wonder if they'll ever do an episode with flashbacks to Aunt Lydia's former life.

Le Saboteur fucked around with this message at May 16, 2018 around 02:19

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


Le Saboteur posted:

Also I wonder if they'll ever do an episode with flashbacks to Aunt Lydia's former life.

I would bet real actual money that we get that soon, maybe even tonight. And I feel like it's gonna be great.

cocoavalley
Dec 28, 2010

Well son, a funny thing about regret is that it's better to regret something you have done than to regret something you haven't done

precision posted:

I would bet real actual money that we get that soon, maybe even tonight. And I feel like it's gonna be great.

We don't really know how the aunts are chosen yet, I guess, so I'm hoping for more backstory as well. My guess is she was either a Catholic School nun, or something the complete opposite and they broke her the same way they broke June last episode. Her devotion(?) to her 'purpose' is chilling. She seems to care about the handmaids, but in her own horrible twisted way, like Annie Wilkes in Misery. The way she talked to June like she was a child, and the way June defied/challenged her by acting like a child was

Those commanders' wives at the shower... just awful (the actors all do a really good job of making me feel disgust towards their characters).

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


I really enjoyed Ann's perspective on Lydia that she outlined in this interview. https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-dowd-interview

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

~~~~~~K.I.D.S.~~~~~~

CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK!



Le Saboteur posted:

Also I wonder if they'll ever do an episode with flashbacks to Aunt Lydia's former life.

I think at this point if they don't do an episode of this everyone is going to be pissed. I think it'll come soon. She's become an increasingly major character.

datajugend
Jan 15, 2010


she used to run a catholic orphanage but two kids named jake and elwood broke her so bad she turned into this

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

~~~~~~K.I.D.S.~~~~~~

CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK!



I think it would be funny if she wasn't what you'd expect at all.

datajugend
Jan 15, 2010


she used to fill in for steve ballmer

"HANDMAIDENS HANDMAIDENS HANDMAIDENS!"

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


She hosted Family Feud after Steve Harvey.

datajugend
Jan 15, 2010


"you want fries with that?"

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

~~~~~~K.I.D.S.~~~~~~

CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK!



datajugend posted:

"you want fries with that?"

I un-ironically would like to see this and half expect it. I think everyone is expecting some sort of catholic school marm or church lady, but I'm imagining her as some beat down woman with a lovely job who just resents everyone around her. I imagine her as someone who was really powerless and angry in the old world.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


Well that episode was just after

CelestialScribe
Jan 16, 2008


I personally believe Gilead only controls the Eastern seaboard. They mention fighting in Chicago last season, and there are elements of resistance even though there are only officially two states - Hawaii and Alaska - left in the union. But who knows how much of the crap that's coming from inside Gilead is their own propaganda.

I definitely think the hinting at military exercises was for Canada and Britain to move into Gilead at some point.

Given the book mentions Waterford bites the dust, I think that first purge is going to happen at the end of the season. Everything has been hinting at it.

Tonight's ep was hosed up.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


The one bright spot was Nick coming out of the house with the cigarette and collar flipped looking like that famous picture of Kerouac

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


veni veni veni posted:

I un-ironically would like to see this and half expect it. I think everyone is expecting some sort of catholic school marm or church lady, but I'm imagining her as some beat down woman with a lovely job who just resents everyone around her. I imagine her as someone who was really powerless and angry in the old world.

I'd love this too, but I wonder if it's a bit too close to her role in Compliance for it to ever happen. It's probably her most famous role prior to her recent surge in popularity, so it could end up feeling like an injoke.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


I feel like Aunt Lydia was in Human Resources. If you've ever worked, well, anywhere, you know what I'm talking about.

kanonvandekempen
Mar 14, 2009


CelestialScribe posted:

I personally believe Gilead only controls the Eastern seaboard. They mention fighting in Chicago last season, and there are elements of resistance even though there are only officially two states - Hawaii and Alaska - left in the union. But who knows how much of the crap that's coming from inside Gilead is their own propaganda.

I definitely think the hinting at military exercises was for Canada and Britain to move into Gilead at some point.

Given the book mentions Waterford bites the dust, I think that first purge is going to happen at the end of the season. Everything has been hinting at it.

Tonight's ep was hosed up.

I'm pretty sure we saw the american flag with two stars in Canada, so it can't have been Gilnean propaganda. In my head it's sort of like this:

East coast and bible belt: Theocracy
West coast: Nuclear hellscape.
Other parts of the interior: ???
Alaska and Hawaï: Remain under control of what's left of the US government

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


drat that child bride scene was insanely disturbing.

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

i gotta pretty little mouth, underneath all the foamin'


"Cows don't get married."

I love Janine so much, she's personified

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precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


Le Saboteur posted:

drat that child bride scene was insanely disturbing.

Which one? I think Serena trying to tell Nick's bride about oral sex was the most disturbing part of all.

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