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Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

In time, you will know the tragic extent of my failings...


Doctor Rope

Mush hurt my feelings by calling me a mostly useless townie, but only because I know that it's true



Don't tell the truth about me, I'm not prepared to reconcile my inadequacies!!

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kumba
Nov 8, 2003


enjoy the ride


Lipstick Apathy

About the deadlines: I think the way the game is constructed necessitates a "blitz" type game with shorter deadlines. Without any actual information to be gathered from flips or investigations, a longer deadline arbitrarily lengthens the game without actually fostering meaningful discussion. Letting the game ruminate for too long inevitably leads to people talking in circles, and then omitting or forgetting one tiny detail and TMM's eidetic memory swings in to "well, actually!" us into oblivion ( love you tmm ). And then when people get called out on it they get defensive, and then we start talking even more in circles, etc etc ad infinitum.

I don't think anything here crossed the line, so you made the right call not intervening. I can only think of one time where someone actually crossed a line and that was before I was playing here, so it happens but not often at all. I will say, though, that the constant poo poo flinging was one of many reasons I was mostly checked out of this game towards the end. Coming back to a bunch of posts, most of which are the same 3 people talking at each other, was not productive and just soured me on getting into it any further. Just my 2˘.

Thanks for the game, it was mostly fun anyway Definitely interested in what everyone else has to say about it, especially curious to hear it from the fash team

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

----------------------
|PMush used Shitpost! |
|It's super effective!|
----------------------


Yeah, one-day deadlines would be crazy short in a mafia game, but if the blitz pace is warned of ahead of time, it'd be a pretty big benefit towards making me want to play Secret Hitler on forums again.

I wonder what SH would be like if it got flavors /reskins like Mafia games do.

Secret Voldemort, coming soon to a thread near you.

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Fly me away on the wings of an angel.


PMush Perfect posted:

Yeah, one-day deadlines would be crazy short in a mafia game, but if the blitz pace is warned of ahead of time, it'd be a pretty big benefit towards making me want to play Secret Hitler on forums again.

I wonder what SH would be like if it got flavors /reskins like Mafia games do.

Secret Voldemort, coming soon to a thread near you.

I mean... this is the pnp I made for my own gaming group (after we were done playing with my self-designed pen-art version before the game from way before release).

And Secret Hamilton is just... lol. I absolutely intend to pnp it eventually, to scream at those Federalists for trying to tax my whiskey.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

This is how Davos feels.
This is how Davos feels all the time.



I had absolutely no fun playing this and am sorry I suggested it in the first place. I don't think the game works well with play by post, the increased time spans and ability to go back and read old posts weren't great, and I definitely think that we lost a key component by voting openly instead of all votes being revealed simultaneously.

Regarding the tone, this was an incredibly toxic experience for me. I absolutely felt I was being insulted personally, and no game should make you happier when you stop playing. If nobody thinks any behavior crossed any lines, so be it, but I was miserable.

CapnAndy fucked around with this message at May 29, 2018 around 19:25

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

CapnAndy posted:

Regarding the tone, this was an incredibly toxic experience for me. I absolutely felt I was being insulted personally, and no game should make you happier when you stop playing. If nobody thinks any behavior crossed any lines, so be it, but I was miserable.

For the record, I'm still down to talk this out if you want to. I feel like you were reading things into my posts that weren't there, throughout the game. It's true, near the end you got me annoyed enough to act like you were portraying me to be acting, if for no other reason then to show you the difference. But I still feel unfairly put upon and have no idea where any of this was coming from.

Now that the game is over it should maybe be possible to have a reasonable conversation about that and come to an understanding.

Can be here or in discord, whatever.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

I agree with the format comments. I do think the votes should be simultaneously revealed, for example. And I feel like the length of time this game takes on the forums is not fantastic for a low info/flipless game. Like, I'd feel the same way about a flipless game of mafia. All the extra time really allowed is for the more talkative folks to talk in circles, while the lurkier individuals did their mostly not posting thing. That is somehow extra frustrating when there is no ultimate resolution through flips to help determine if they are doing it as a fascist strategy, they are just super busy in RL, or they just have no interest in participating in the game they signed up for. That latter piece is a problem that just wouldn't exist in something real time. You are either there or you aren't.

I don't think I'd play a pbp version of this again, but I still thank Dancer for running it. I can see how this would be a really fun game in person or even over a short period in discord.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

In terms of final thoughts on the game itself:

Yeah, I was super busy on the day the vote was finalized. If I'd been around, I'd have been voting no. As I was catching up before realizing vote was done and I was dead, was planning on voting no and decided that Byers/Cpig were the bad guys based on the way the vote pattern settled.

I wouldn't have seen DB as fascist prior to his vote switch, would still have thought it was RF/Byers/Pig/Cap. So if I'd been around to vote no with TMM, I probably wouldn't have ever figured him out.

And I think I'd already posted something to this effect for if we voted no or if the game was still going, but I was planning on going hard for a Pmush/TMM administration.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!


I agree one day is too short, but 36-48 would be better.

I think I stepped in as a mod once in my gaming Career. For the most part we’re good about self policing, but yeah TMM was definitely crossing some lines near the end there. Probably not something a mod should be dealing with though.

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Fly me away on the wings of an angel.


One thing that worries me slightly with short deadlines + secret voting: The purpose of secret voting, as far as I see it, is to force everyone to put down an "honest" opinion (or take a serious risk putting down a dishonest one if you're absolutely sure the vote will be going your way regardless). So this means that *everyone* needs to vote. So the deadline might be too short. Idea: 24 hours deadline for the nom, then keep the thread open while everyone has 24 hours after nom to vote?

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

----------------------
|PMush used Shitpost! |
|It's super effective!|
----------------------


You can also do the BSG play by post thing and accept preloaded actions.

IE, someone could PM you with "unless I say otherwise, in this round I will vote yes for TMM and no for anyone else" or "If this nomination succeeds, I will pass as many liberal policies as possible to them."

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Fly me away on the wings of an angel.


PMush Perfect posted:

You can also do the BSG play by post thing and accept preloaded actions.

IE, someone could PM you with "unless I say otherwise, in this round I will vote yes for TMM and no for anyone else" or "If this nomination succeeds, I will pass as many liberal policies as possible to them."

That part I can easily do. I've been pbp'ing Game of Thrones for 8 months, so I'm very used to conditional orders.

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TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

He will be injured, but in the World Series he will be raised from the DL. And the Indians were filled with grief.


Dancer posted:

One thing that worries me slightly with short deadlines + secret voting: The purpose of secret voting, as far as I see it, is to force everyone to put down an "honest" opinion (or take a serious risk putting down a dishonest one if you're absolutely sure the vote will be going your way regardless). So this means that *everyone* needs to vote. So the deadline might be too short. Idea: 24 hours deadline for the nom, then keep the thread open while everyone has 24 hours after nom to vote?

That might work.

Also, I know I danced around or crossed (depending on your point of view) the line towards the end of the game, but I want to make it clear that I personally hold no ill will towards CapnAndy. The things I said are meant only for this game and should not be considered insults towards CapnAndy as a person in real life. I'm sure that he is a perfectly nice and reasonable person.

For whatever reasons Andy and I just weren't able to see eye to eye at all this game and it got frustrating enough at the end of the game that I felt like I had to speak out.

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