Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«12 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



So, I bet you liked 1817, didn't you? Well, what if i told you you could have one with randomized privates, setups, and offmap locations?

Here's the spreadsheet

1817 Base Rules

18USA rules

When everybody's signed up, i'll generate the map and privates. Hop on if you're interested.

Seating Order:
Panzeh
Stash
Squishy - PD
Lecher
Papes

Panzeh fucked around with this message at May 26, 2018 around 23:06

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

I'm in. How many players are you looking for.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Mr. Squishy posted:

I'm in. How many players are you looking for.

I'd like to get 4-5.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Also, for a map:



To provide a little more explanation, the yellow cities will have subsidies for the first IPO, including bonuses like extra value for the city, a free station token, cash to use in the IPO instead of your own money, or even a city that starts out green.

The off map boxes all have randomly generated sets of values, and the B-tiles are randomized among six locations, choosing 3.

The private companies that will appear are randomized and they generally have more wild abilities than those in 1817. Unlike in 1817, there is no seed money and the minimum bid for all privates except the pyramid scheme is 50% of the face value. There is no maximum bid in 18USA.

$30 Par Companies

Lehigh Coal Company - Similar to minor coal company from 1817, but coal tiles can be upgraded, unlike in 1817. One coal token.

Reece Oil and Gas - Provides a single oil token to the company. Oil tokens are like coal tokens except they upgrade to +20 in phase 5.

Nobel's Blasting powder - Do not have to pay to lay on mountain tiles. This provides no refund, even with a coal tile lay.

Import/Export Hub - Replace a single red offmap tile with a 30/40/50/80 during the lay track step, if the company is connected to the offmap area.

$40 Par Companies

Fox Bridge Works - Same as the small bridge company in 1817. New Orleans cannot be chosen if it is a metropolis(the same as a 'B' tile)

Hendrickson Iron - The company gains an iron ore token. Iron ore tokens can be placed similarly to coal tokens. Iron ore token tiles cannot be upgraded, but when phase 3 begins, the company can use its upgrade tile action to upgrade the Iron ore token from a +10 to a +20 bonus.

Track Engineers - The company can spend $20 to lay three tiles, one of which can be an upgrade. This can be combined with Pettibone and Mullikan to allow a second upgrade with this.

Express Freight Service - The company can place a station marker in any red offmap area and that company alone gains a +10 bonus to any train that goes to that offmap area. This does count against the 8-station limit, but is not a station itself.

Boomtown - This grants a free green non-metropolis city tile upgrade to the company that does not use its turn - it must still have a legal route to the city.

Carnegie Steel - If the home city for this company was not originally chosen as a metropolis but was eligible to be one, the initial yellow tile lay may be a metropolis tile instead of a normal city

Pettibone and Mulliken - The company may upgrade two track tiles a turn instead of one, but only one of the upgrades may be a city tile.

$60 Par Companies

Standard Oil Company - Same as Reece Oil & Gas, but 2 tokens

Pennsy Boneyard - When a train is rendered obsolete, the company may discard Pennsy Boneyard to treat one of its trains as a + train. This ability cannot be used on + trains.

Pyramid Scheme - No ability, but the minimum bid is $5 instead of half par like normal privates

Western Land Grant - Allows the company to take an extra loan at a fixed $5 interest rate. Loans can be paid off in any order.

Regional Headquarters - When phase 5 begins, the company can choose to upgrade a green or brown tile to the grey regional HQ tile. This tile has six connections, three of which are optional.

Great Northern Railway - The company gets an extra $30 of revenue for sending a train from Fargo to Helena. An additional $30 of revenue is awarded if the same train also goes to Chicago and Seattle. The company gets a free yellow track lay on the border hexes marked with the GNR icon in addition to their normal track lays. This free track lay ignores terrain costs.

Peabody Coal Company - Same as Lehigh Coal, but 2 tokens.

$80 Par Companies

Union Switch & Signal - The company may ignore one city completely for one of its trains, ignoring a city's filled station markers and not collecting revenue from it. This does not count as one of the train's stops. All other trains in the company treat it as a city.

Suem & Wynn Lawfirm - The company may lay a station tile in a city, even if it is completely full. If the city gains an additional station slot, the station takes the slot immediately.

Keystone Bridge Co. - The company gains a bridge token and a coal or ore token. The choice between coal and ore tokens is made the moment the token is laid down. The company does not ignore difficult terrain costs for rivers.

American Bridge Co. - Same as the major bridge company in 1817

Bailey Yard - Same as the bonus station compan in 1817

$90 Par Companies

Anaconda Copper - Same as Hendrickson Iron, but two ore markers.

American Locomotive Co. - The company receives a 10% discount on trains. May be discarded prior to the run trains step to buy a single train at a 10% discount. This company is discarded when the first 6 train comes out, but may be used to purchase the first 6 train.

Rural Junction - The company may place a rural junction hex in an empty city space. This junction does not count as a stop, but adds $10 to the route of any train running through it.

Company Town - The company my place a Company Town hex in any space not adjacent to a metropolis. The company town hex is a grey hex that provides -10 revenue to any other company's trains running to it, and comes with a station of the owning company. If it is placed on a city hex referenced by a private company, it is considered to be that city. If the station marker is removed for any reason, no other company may put a station marker there. If the company town is built on a river hex, it may have a bridge token placed on it.

Consolidation Coal Co. - Same as Lehigh Coal, but 3 coal tokens.

$120 Par Companies

Bankrupt Railroad - If the company is begun in a no subsidy hex, the company begins with a 2-train. If it is used in a hex in which a subsidy is offered, this private company does nothing.

Double Heading - During the Run Trains step, one non-permanent train may go to an additional city.


Panzeh fucked around with this message at May 5, 2018 around 20:12

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


I'm in. There's always room in my heart for 18XX.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Oh, by the way, Lehigh, Fox, Reece, and Hendrickson are always in the game. If there are 5 players, Carnegie steel will also be in the game.

The revised train export schedule will push the trains fairly hard- All of the 2+s go away in OR2, All of the 3s go away in OR4. I believe the intention of these changes is to keep 2-trains from being utterly dominant because the map has some very potentially ridiculous companies made out of maxed out 2 trains.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Here are the randomized elements.

When we settle on 4 or 5, i'll put it up on board18.

I believe StashAugustine will be joining us, so that will make us 4- I would prefer 5 given the openness of the map, but could go with 4 if no one's forthcoming in the next couple days.

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

I'll join

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Well, that gives us five. Please register on Board18 and post your name and I can put the map up for everyone and we can begin the private bidding.

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

I have the same name as I do here

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006





Here's the map for y'all while you think about things and i get the initial bid set up. Remember that the subsidies are only there for IPOs in the very first stock round.

Cash amounts are basically free money toward the IPO when you start a company there

+10 adds a +10 token to the city, increasing its value for all companies

+10/20 is the same thing except the token flips to +2 when phase 5 begins

Resource gives a company starting there a resource token just like the privates of whatever type you wish.

Boomtown allows the first tile lay to be a green upgraded city, even before phase 3 begins

Also, Denver is a metropolis, but the player who first lays the tile gets to choose how it's oriented for that one.

Panzeh fucked around with this message at May 7, 2018 around 20:17

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






Yeah I just got back from work, i'll register later today]

e: registered

StashAugustine fucked around with this message at May 7, 2018 around 20:55

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



StashAugustine posted:

Yeah I just got back from work, i'll register later today]

e: registered

Added, just waiting for Known Lecher and i'll make the post for the private bid.

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


I'm KnownL, let's rock.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Alright, so, bidding on the privates begins:

The seating order is

Panzeh
Stash
Squishy
Lecher
Papes

Minimum bid on any given private is 50% of the par, there is no maximum bid. Remember that these private companies are used when you win a bid to start a company at a location and can be used in any combination with cash, so long as you don't exceed the winning bid. When you use the private company to fund an IPO, do remember that the par price is subtracted from the company's opening funds, so don't overspend on these private companies. Think about how much it's worth to a company before you go all out to win.

The procedure is that the current player will choose a company to put up for bidding, providing a bid of at least half the par price in multiples of $5 or pass. Other players will have the opportunity to exceed the bid by $5 or pass. Once everyone has passed, the current bidder wins the private company. You cannot make a bid that you cannot pay. If you have any rules questions about the private companies, let me know.

$30 Par Companies

Lehigh Coal Company - Similar to minor coal company from 1817, but coal tiles can be upgraded, unlike in 1817. One coal token.

Reece Oil and Gas - Provides a single oil token to the company. Oil tokens are like coal tokens except they upgrade to +20 in phase 5.

Nobel's Blasting powder - Do not have to pay to lay on mountain tiles. This provides no refund, even with a coal tile lay.

$40 Par Companies

Fox Bridge Works - Same as the small bridge company in 1817. New Orleans cannot be chosen if it is a metropolis(the same as a 'B' tile)

Hendrickson Iron - The company gains an iron ore token. Iron ore tokens can be placed similarly to coal tokens. Iron ore token tiles cannot be upgraded, but when phase 3 begins, the company can use its upgrade tile action to upgrade the Iron ore token from a +10 to a +20 bonus.

Boomtown - This grants a free green non-metropolis city tile upgrade to the company that does not use its turn - it must still have a legal route to the city.

Carnegie Steel - If the home city for this company was not originally chosen as a metropolis but was eligible to be one, the initial yellow tile lay may be a metropolis tile instead of a normal city

Pettibone and Mulliken - The company may upgrade two track tiles a turn instead of one, but only one of the upgrades may be a city tile.

$60 Par Companies

Western Land Grant - Allows the company to take an extra loan at a fixed $5 interest rate. Loans can be paid off in any order.

Regional Headquarters - When phase 5 begins, the company can choose to upgrade a green or brown tile to the grey regional HQ tile. This tile has six connections, three of which are optional.

Great Northern Railway - The company gets an extra $30 of revenue for sending a train from Fargo to Helena. An additional $30 of revenue is awarded if the same train also goes to Chicago and Seattle. The company gets a free yellow track lay on the border hexes marked with the GNR icon in addition to their normal track lays. This free track lay ignores terrain costs.

$80 Par Companies

Suem & Wynn Lawfirm - The company may discard this private to lay a station tile in a city, even if it is completely full. If the city gains an additional station slot, the station takes the slot immediately.

Keystone Bridge Co. - The company gains a bridge token and a coal or ore token. The choice between coal and ore tokens is made the moment the token is laid down. The company does not ignore difficult terrain costs for rivers.

$90 Par Companies

Rural Junction - The company may place rural junction hexes in any empty city space. This junction does not count as a stop, but adds $10 to the route of any train running through it.

Consolidation Coal Co. - Same as Lehigh Coal, but 3 coal tokens.

$120 Par Companies

Double Heading - During the Run Trains step, one non-permanent train may go to an additional city.

With that, I will open bidding on Carnegie Steel for $20

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






Bid $25

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Pass

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


Pass

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Just so I'm clear as there's no iconography key in the map or manual - The mine-cart filled w/ something is Coal, and the pickaxe and shovel are Ore, and the row of red and blue dots in B is meaningless?

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Mr. Squishy posted:

Just so I'm clear as there's no iconography key in the map or manual - The mine-cart filled w/ something is Coal, and the pickaxe and shovel are Ore, and the row of red and blue dots in B is meaningless?

Yes, that's correct. The red and blue dots as you put them are actually the GNR tiles in which that private gets to take free track lays.

Panzeh fucked around with this message at May 8, 2018 around 09:58

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

The makes a lot of sense. I assumed they were fluff because they're not replicated on the old map at the back of the rulebook.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Mr. Squishy posted:

The makes a lot of sense. I assumed they were fluff because they're not replicated on the old map at the back of the rulebook.

Probably going to be relevant because the GNR cities have some really good subsidies and offmap box connections.

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

bid $30

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Pass

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






Pass

I'm up next for bidding right? GNR for $30

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Bump that to 55.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






someone's coming out swinging

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

It's only money.

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


Mr. Squishy posted:

Bump that to 55.



Bid 60

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Given the subsidy/offmap situation, it might be the best private available.

By the way, when SR1 comes up, would anybody like a detailed breakdown of short selling? I got a pretty good explanation of that and since some of y'all are new, I think it'd be a good time to explain how it works, since it's the most complicated part of the game.

Panzeh fucked around with this message at May 9, 2018 around 01:06

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

pass

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


This is my first time playing '17 or one of its cousins, so I've been reading over the rules for shorts. I think I have the general idea but I certainly wouldn't mind an additional explanation.

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

When a company is shorted in the stock round the first time, you go to the game box and dig out ten more certificate cards - five regular share certificate and five short share certificates. The shorting player takes one of each, but immediately sells the regular share to the bank for the current share price. This gets you money now, and if nobody buys the share now in the bank, it will drag the company's share price down.
However, whenever that share pays out (normally through dividends but also shareholder compensation), you have to pay that much money to the bank. So shorting a viable company can really hurt you.
You can close the short by purchasing a regular share in that company (any will do, you don't have to track which one you created) - you cannot hold both a share and a short share in the same company, the shares you buy immediately find their anti-share and go back into the box.
What you're doing is finding some sucker who can't see that a company's overvalued, and saying "sure, I'll get you a share of that. Pay me now and I'll get back to you later". Then if that share continues to do well the sucker comes to you with his hand held out saying "I have paid you already so..."

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Fly me away on the wings of an angel.


Wait, so there are now potentially 6 shares in the game for a 5-share company? And if someone does pick it up, it's impossible to close the short unless someone sells?

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Yes and yes. You can think of a short as a minus share, which needs to be balanced by another positive share. It's also easier for a company to get a stock-bump for having 100% of the company held by players, as now there's 120% floating around. Shorting a healthy company can be a huge mistake. I believe the manual for '17 says something like "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
Also Panzeh, are we playing with the "more shorts" variants?

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Mr. Squishy posted:

Yes and yes. You can think of a short as a minus share, which needs to be balanced by another positive share. It's also easier for a company to get a stock-bump for having 100% of the company held by players, as now there's 120% floating around. Shorting a healthy company can be a huge mistake. I believe the manual for '17 says something like "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
Also Panzeh, are we playing with the "more shorts" variants?

As these are new players, we're going to be playing with the standard 5 shorts.

Also, if the company can buyback the newly created shares, it's basically extra money that can go into the company. You can think of it as basically, the short holder now actually paying the holder of the positive share instead of the bank, but rather than having to track which short goes with which new positive share to see who you pay, it's just, the short holder pays the bank, and then those shares pay extra. You still divide the dividend among the 'normal' 5 or 10 shares, those shares above 100% just end up being extra paying shares for 'free'

This is why if a company can take loans, one of the easiest ways to actually gain from a short seller attacking the company is to during the SR, have the company take loans to buy the short share from the market. The company will then get more money for its own treasury when it pays full dividends in that case.

The platonic ideal of a short sell target is a company that you know is going into liquidation because you don't actually have to get out of the short share position, and you just got free money.

I'll get into this more in the post when SR1 begins, but unlike in other 18XX games, the means by which a share price goes down for stocks being sold is not the selling itself, but shares being in the market- a company's share price is reduced by two steps for every single share in the market.

Also, bid $65

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






Bid $70

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

$80

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


Bid $85

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Pass

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«12 »