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Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Pass

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StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






30

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Pass.
Consolidated Coal for 65

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


Pass

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

70

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



75

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






Pass

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

80

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

85

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Pass.

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Pass. Papes gets it, Papes to start.
Also, Panzeh, do you mind if I hide the 4-player loan counter, as it can only mislead. And I think you should remove the left "worth" column because it's useless. It just mirrors the cell next to it.

Mr. Squishy fucked around with this message at May 15, 2018 around 21:48

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Mr. Squishy posted:

Pass. Papes gets it, Papes to start.
Also, Panzeh, do you mind if I hide the 4-player loan counter, as it can only mislead. And I think you should remove the left "worth" column because it's useless. It just mirrors the cell next to it.

Sure, go ahead.

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

boomtown for $20

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

I've bought that already.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



FYI, here's the spreadsheet.

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


Getting ahead to the stock round a bit, you can pay the cost of the president's share (to float a railroad) from the value of the privates you own, which means less money in the treasury.

From the 1817 rules, if you don't have $100+ in a company's treasury to start the first OR, it sounds like it's crucial to make sure a railroad has at least $5 actual cash in its treasury in order to pay the fees on a first-turn loan (or $10 for 2 loans) or you're forever screwed, since you can't force-buy trains with the president's money. I assume that's the same here, right?

And if we were greedy enough to bid a private beyond face value (hypothetically speaking, of course), our (over)bid is what counts for the private's equity and not its actual face value, right?

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

You're not totally screwed if you embark with no money. Take a loan to buy a train, and a second to pay for interest on the first and second loan!
Looking at the USA IPO rules, changes seem to be: bids have to be integers, rather than a multiple of 5; there's no maximum bid; and Panzeh would have to check on this one, but payment doesn't have to be exact. As there's a rule for what happens if there's a negative value between your bid and the company's privates, I guess you can over-pay with Privates, rather than being hidebound to make it precisely, as in '17.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Known Lecher posted:

Getting ahead to the stock round a bit, you can pay the cost of the president's share (to float a railroad) from the value of the privates you own, which means less money in the treasury.

From the 1817 rules, if you don't have $100+ in a company's treasury to start the first OR, it sounds like it's crucial to make sure a railroad has at least $5 actual cash in its treasury in order to pay the fees on a first-turn loan (or $10 for 2 loans) or you're forever screwed, since you can't force-buy trains with the president's money. I assume that's the same here, right?

And if we were greedy enough to bid a private beyond face value (hypothetically speaking, of course), our (over)bid is what counts for the private's equity and not its actual face value, right?

Actually, starting a company with $0 in the treasury works, it's just not recommended because the company will have a very slow start.

You can take a loan at any time except in the time between Pay Interest and Buy Trains. If you started with $0, you'd take 2 loans, pay $10 interest, and buy one train.

But, yes, you're correct, when you use a private to pay for a company, the company gets the private instead of that money in the treasury. It's entirely viable to just not buy any privates at the start and begin 2 fairly strong companies from the word 'go'.

Mr. Squishy posted:

You're not totally screwed if you embark with no money. Take a loan to buy a train, and a second to pay for interest on the first and second loan!
Looking at the USA IPO rules, changes seem to be: bids have to be integers, rather than a multiple of 5; there's no maximum bid; and Panzeh would have to check on this one, but payment doesn't have to be exact. As there's a rule for what happens if there's a negative value between your bid and the company's privates, I guess you can over-pay with Privates, rather than being hidebound to make it precisely, as in '17.

Yeah, the revised IPO rule implies that you can overpay with your privates now.

Panzeh fucked around with this message at May 16, 2018 around 13:35

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Having thought about it for a second, payments still ahve to be exact (eg you can't pay for a $100 bid with a $120 company). You can get a negative value in the rounding down of bids into share prices. The order is: Winner pays whatever cash to the bank; share price is calculated by halving the bid and rounding down to the nearest place in the stock market; starting money is twice the share price, minus the value of the companies it starts with. Fiddly!
e: to give an example: Lecher wins a presidents share with a bid of $121. He sets aside Double Heading (face price $120) and pays $1 to the bank. Half of 121 is 60.5, and the share market goes from 59 to 62, so the initial share price is $59. Twice 59 is 118, if you subtract the company's private that's -2. Rather than having to take a loan to pay that, the game graciously just starts the company w/ initial holdings of 0.
e2: it's a wild stock market, makes a lot of sense why bids no longer have to be multiples of five.

Mr. Squishy fucked around with this message at May 16, 2018 around 13:51

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


Panzeh posted:

You can take a loan at any time except in the time between Pay Interest and Buy Trains. If you started with $0, you'd take 2 loans, pay $10 interest, and buy one train.

Ah, that makes sense. For some dumb reason I was thinking that you paid the interest in this game before taking the loan, like an up-front fee, so if you had $0 in your treasury you'd never be able to afford to take out a loan. Maybe because the "strategy tips" section in the 17 rulebook says

quote:

The initial 2-share companies should almost always start with at least $10 in cash. This provides the cash to make interest payments on one or two loans in the first operating round.

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Well, being forced to take a bridging loan turn 1 doesn't... seem strong.

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


Yeah, it's not a hot move in any event. I just had somehow interpreted the rules as opening up the possibility for a company to open into an endless death spiral from the very beginning if it had $0 in its treasury to start, which admittedly would be kind of interesting.

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

Henderson Iron for 20

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.


wow, thanks for that. it was very difficult to reread the thread multiple times every time, this will simplify the process significantly!

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



25

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






Pass

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

30

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


Pass

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

Pass

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



$35

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Pass

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Land Grant for $30

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






35

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

45

Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


Pass

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

Pass

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Pass.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






Pass

Law Firm for $40

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Pass

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Known Lecher
Jan 4, 2016


$45

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